Guild Wars 2

Will there ever be 2v2/3v3 arenas!

Arena Pros:

• It’s esports! The only ever MMO that was esports was World of Wartcraft and they did it with arenas! They didn’t do it with their conquest and lord rush battlegrounds!
• Nobody cares about conquest!
• Everybody loves arenas!
• It will give the illusion of a larger playerbase! The GW2 PvP population is TINY! If we split up 5v5 teams into teams of 2 or 3, we’ll have more teams! Right now at the highest level there’s like maybe 4-5 teams across 6 continents that can compete with each other! That’s so bad and not esports!
• It’s a PvP mode where the primary objective is to actually PvP!
• It’s easier to watch! A huge part of esports is the viewers! The amount of twitch viewers for Guild Warts 2 will increase exponentially if there were arenas!
• It requires more skill! No longer can you rely on 4 other teammates to make up for your mistakes!
• It will draw more people to GW2! People love arenas! I personally know 6 people who hate this game but would play it if it had arenas!
• Arena maps are much easier to create than conquest and stronghold maps! They are small and have no mechanics other than line of sight objects!
• Arenas can be hotjoined and can have unranked/ranked queues!

Arena cons:

• None!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

I looked at the bottom of your post before even reading it. I couldn’t see your signature, nearly fell off my chair, then focused back on the top. 10/10 didn’t disappoint.

aussieheals.6843:

I looked at the bottom of your post before even reading it. I couldn’t see your signature, nearly fell off my chair, then focused back on the top. 10/10 didn’t disappoint.

I don’t know what that means but if you support 2v2/3v3 arenas then we are best frands!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

The fact that you haven’t named any cons shows that you haven’t thought this through. If you split ranked arena into 3 different team sizes, you will have on 3x less players in each mode, resulting in either 3x worse matchmaking or 3x longer queues, both of which will destroy the pvp playerbase.

I’m at a crossroads. I played GvG in gw1 and it was glorious. I played small arena in WoW and the concept was glorious (it just needed a good game).

As you mentioned yourself the PvP community is really small. But the WvW and the pve community isn’t. I think GvG’s are just the thing to repopulate the servers with those sorts of crossovers, not to mention people coming back to the game due to their favorite feature being reintroduced.

You could easily argue the other way but lets face it, gaming is evermore focused on the casuals and casuals understand lane gameplay and don’t understand the subtle skills being pulled off even without the clutter.

I hope one day to see small arenas, but I hope more that I’m not waiting until the end of August for any major PvP changes period.

Who said anything about splitting ranked arenas into 3 different team sizes! There will be only one ranked/unranked queue and that’s 2v2 or 3v3 arenas or maybe both! Conquest and Stronghold should be relegated to hotjoins as they are just casual PvP game modes that nobody cares about! And if you do care about them, well you can still play them! Nothing will be changed! And you also haven’t considered the huge influx of PvPers to Guild Warts 2 because of the arena addition! I have thought this through and there are literally no cons!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

No difference, it still takes players away from other pvp modes, thus impacting match quality.
Nobody cares about conquest? I’d like to see actual statistics to back this up.

What does Lord Rush and conquest have anything to do with being esports or not?

ArrDee.2573:

Stronghold should be relegated to hotjoins as they are just casual PvP game modes that nobody cares about!

You do realize that ‘lane orientated games’ (MOBAs) are actually the leading game types of esports right? Just a couple more viewers than arena type games..

Tao.5096:

What does Lord Rush and conquest have anything to do with being esports or not?

My thoughts exactly! Anet is trying to make conquest esports! Possibly stronghold too! This will fail! In fact if you go by twitch viewers, it’s already failed! It’s hard to watch on twitch! It’s boring to watch on twitch! It’s a PvP game mode where the primary objective isn’t PvP! It just doesn’t work!

aussieheals.6843:

You do realize that ‘lane orientated games’ (MOBAs) are actually the leading game types of esports right? Just a couple more viewers than arena type games..

I agree with you my frand! But stronghold isn’t a MOBA! MMOs aren’t MOBAS! The leading (and only) game type in an MMO that’s esports is arena! It’s easy to watch on twitch! The maps are easy to create! It’s balanced for actual PvP and not area denial! It requires more skill and coordination! So many positives!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

ArrDee.2573:

Tao.5096:

What does Lord Rush and conquest have anything to do with being esports or not?

My thoughts exactly! Anet is trying to make conquest esports! Possibly stronghold too! This will fail! In fact if you go by twitch viewers, it’s already failed! It’s hard to watch on twitch! It’s boring to watch on twitch! It’s a PvP game mode where the primary objective isn’t PvP! It just doesn’t work!

That’s not what I meant.

If we’re focusing so much on esports then:
Counter-Strike
Since I can remember, CS was always about
- plant Bomb = Win
- save Hostages = Win
You don’t even need to kill anyone from opponent team.

Now how different is Lord Rush amd Conquest?
Lord Rush gives you 1/3rd of points to win.
Conquest is slower.

Compare it to MOBA?
Why?
MOBA is balanced?
So far as I know, those eSport MOBA games have their chars which are walking Gw2NecroLichForm.

Adding, 2v2 and 3v3 arenas would be fine.
Focusing on TDM maps isn’t good as well.
It’ll only narrow viable builds for those modes.
Mostly, go full zerk or tank and go after marks.

Saying that arena (2v2 and 3v3) requiers more skill is false, Arena mostly tests you mechanical skills, while Objective based modes test Mechanical and Mental skills.

Deathmatches are fun, especially in the arena format (2v2, 3v3). However they are not esports material. They are not fun to watch. Look at how many games are true DM and are esports. Only wow is and that’s because it’s a massively populated game with a 10year history behind it. Honestly, have you ever watched Wow arena’s? It’s a big, boring clusterkitten.

An important part of esports is the viewership.
Conquest, in it’s current iteration in gw2, will never be a ‘durable’ esport. The biggest contributor to that fact is the scoring mechanic. You’re basically watching the game go from 0 – 500. The possibilities for excitement are very limited (both teams reaching 400+, timer running out which honestly isn’t a great ‘feature’, etc.). The gameplay is also very fast paced and very subtle which makes it hard to pick up on great plays. Just listen to the shoutcasters. The commentary is mostly limited to some stomp, portal, rez, point cap hype. The great rotations of teams and certain spikes are to hard to catch on or are just simply not that exciting to point out.

Stronghold, while we have almost no info, will replace that 0-500 scoring mechanic by a clear, tangible object: the guild lord. This alone should make it more exciting to watch.

And about Wow being the only MMO esport. False, GW1 GvG was very much an esport.

ArrDee.2573:

• It will give the illusion of a larger playerbase! The GW2 PvP population is TINY! If we split up 5v5 teams into teams of 2 or 3, we’ll have more teams! Right now at the highest level there’s like maybe 4-5 teams across 6 continents that can compete with each other! That’s so bad and not esports!

this is probably one of the best points ive ever seen you make. A++

i do enjoy conquest, but i would actually get pumped and try harder if there was 2v2 and 3v3 actual pvp.

Tao.5096:

If we’re focusing so much on esports then:
Counter-Strike
Since I can remember, CS was always about
- plant Bomb = Win
- save Hostages = Win
You don’t even need to kill anyone from opponent team.

maybe if youre playing the most nub teams in the world.
you have to fight your way to the bomb site, plant the bomb, and then fend off the other team from disarming it. same with hostages, you have to fight to get to them and then fight to get them out.

if they made it so there was no points to cap and you had to defend/kill the lord and that was the only objective it would vastly improve the game.

oneply.9586

maybe if youre playing the most nub teams in the world.
you have to fight your way to the bomb site, plant the bomb, and then fend off the other team from disarming it. same with hostages, you have to fight to get to them and then fight to get them out.

if they made it so there was no points to cap and you had to defend/kill the lord and that was the only objective it would vastly improve the game.

Does it matter?
If Anet want to play their eSport stuff, why not?
Are you participating? Not?
Why do you care then? – it’s not pointed at you, but at people who bash about it the most.

Someone already said the reason why Gw2 will end poorly in eSport.
Because Viewers are only few compared to top games.
It’s not because of mechanics, modes or w/e else.
It’s lack of interest from people who could watch it.
Why is that?
Because they simply don’t know what Gw2 is.
I surf the internet for years.
And I have learned about Guild Wars 2 from few friends who told me about it, that’s a sequel to Guild Wars 1.
If not them, I wouldn’t even try googling it or type the URL in browser.
You know why?
Because ArenaNet doesn’t even Advertise their product.
I constantly see WoW ads, LoL ads, Dota ads, CS ads, SC2 ads.
Each time I get on steam, I’m shot with Dota advertisement.
I’m on youtube, then I’m shot with WoW or LoL or Dota ads constantly.

But for past 2 years, since release, even pre-release, I have not seen even a single one Guild Wars 2 ad.

ArrDee.2573:

• Nobody cares about conquest!
• Everybody loves arenas!

’’

100% disagree

Quit talking for everyone, “frand”

GrandmaFunk.3052:

ArrDee.2573:

• Nobody cares about conquest!
• Everybody loves arenas!

’’

100% disagree

Quit talking for everyone, “frand”

I agree. Node Protectors hate Arenas since they take actual skillz.

Totally agree. Coming from WoW and being fairly successful in Arena, i’ve been calling for a deathmatch/arena mode for 2 years. A TEAM/GVG based rooster would be best, not this stupid kittening 5v5 yet you only ever show solo rating on LB bullkitten.

Not only that, having a 2v2/3v3 system would totally reenergise the stale pvp format of conquest. 2v2/3v3= easier to get a team up and running= more players playing.

It would be more fun, easier on the eye and easier for shout casters to do their kitten, promoting more esports stream events imo.

The problems are, is that there is no ‘trinity’ setup in this game of tank/dps/healer…so im pretty sure this is the reason arena has never been implemented. It would take out half the pvp builds considered viable as they are not needed/as successful when it comes to deathmatch( i however think the community would still make a good job of representation of builds).

Finally, it’s impossible to add more game modes like this or even think about boosting pvp when we have a broken ladderboard.

Before anything else, ANET, please for the love of God, fix the ladderboard.

People do care about conquest.

Arenas get boring. You’re drunk Liv, go home.

As always, Vee Wee, a very reasonable and impartial opinion. Of course, a lot of people like playing conquest (25.000 in EU only, quite good for a casual MMO), and the most watched export games at the moment are some sort of stronghold games, but you don’t like it so obviously no one else do, right?

Frankly, I’ve got nothing against 2v2 and 3v3, but don’t come and tell us it’s esport. There’s no strategy, no team work, only gross mechanical skill. Maybe I should write to the FIFA and tell them “hey, your game is so complicated, it’s never gonna be a sport, just do penalties, nobody cares about defense and all this stuff”.

Sorel.4870:

Frankly, I’ve got nothing against 2v2 and 3v3, but don’t come and tell us it’s esport. There’s no strategy, no team work, only gross mechanical skill.

lmao
are you kidding me?

SobeSoul.6910:

Arenas get boring. You’re drunk Liv, go home.

If arenas are boring, then play conquest or the new stronghold when it comes out! I’m not saying get rid of these things! Obviously some people for some reason still enjoy conquest as the only game mode after 2 and a half years! And many people will enjoy the new stronghold mode! Mainly because it’s the only game mode released after 2 and a half freakin years!

Sorel.4870:

Frankly, I’ve got nothing against 2v2 and 3v3, but don’t come and tell us it’s esport. There’s no strategy, no team work, only gross mechanical skill. Maybe I should write to the FIFA and tell them “hey, your game is so complicated, it’s never gonna be a sport, just do penalties, nobody cares about defense and all this stuff”.

Arenas are esports! The proof is that in the past there have been many cash prize arena tournaments with lots of teams playing in them! Where are the conquest tournaments! There has been only one and it was the GW2 WTS tournament! The one where only 4 teams participated lol! Anet gave away way too much money to this tiny PvP scene in an attempt to gather more players! Well nobody new wants to play conquest! The proof is in the twitch views! The proof is in the bad matchmaking! The proof is in the tiny, stagnant competitive scene!

And as for “no skill or strategy in arenas”, well that is just a silly statement!

All this is only concerning esports! When you talk about arenas in regards to the general playerbase, there are even more positives!

• Arenas are popular! More popular than conquest!
• Arena maps are easy to make!
• Arenas will bring more people to play this game!
• Arena queue times will be shorter!
• Arena games don’t last as long which means more games which means more rewards!
• Arenas are more fun than standing on a point!
• Arenas will bring more twitch viewers!
• MMR will have a bigger impact on arenas! In 5v5 conquest, you can easily be carried! In a 2v2 and 3v3 on a tiny map, your actions will affect the outcome so much more!
• Arena is a PvP game mode with an emphasis on PvP and not standing on point or PvE lord rushing! PvPers want to PvP! It’s crazy logic but it makes sense if you think about it!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

ArrDee.2573:

• Arena queue times will be shorter!
• Arena games don’t last as long which means more games which means more rewards!

what are you basing these on?

ArrDee.2573:

• Arena is a PvP game mode with an emphasis on PvP and not standing on point or PvE lord rushing! PvPers want to PvP! It’s crazy logic but it makes sense if you think about it!

so here’s an analogy: conquest/stronghold and other objective-based modes are like football or baseball, whereas deathmatch style PvP, is like playing catch.

it’s fine to enjoy both kinds of activities, the problem is when you keep trying to frame the discussion around deathmatch being the “real PvP”.

ArrDee.2573:

Will there ever be 2v2/3v3 arenas!

Arena Pros:

• It’s esports! The only ever MMO that was esports was World of Wartcraft and they did it with arenas! They didn’t do it with their conquest and lord rush battlegrounds!

Except that even with Blizzard and an 11m playerbase they failed, guess what arena sucked, running round pillars was not fun to watch.

ArrDee.2573:

• It’s a PvP mode where the primary objective is to actually PvP!

You seem to have a basic failing in understanding of what PvP is, it is player versus player, not player killing player, there is a difference,

ArrDee.2573:

• It’s easier to watch! A huge part of esports is the viewers! The amount of twitch viewers for Guild Warts 2 will increase exponentially if there were arenas!

Well firstly based on Twitch viewers they should make a MOBA mode, and secondly judging by the number of viewers you get, which on a good day is 4 you don’t seem to know what attracts viewers.

ArrDee.2573:

• It requires more skill! No longer can you rely on 4 other teammates to make up for your mistakes!

Arena has a lower skill cap than virtually any other PvP mode, all it is a team fight.

GrandmaFunk.3052:

ArrDee.2573:

• Arena queue times will be shorter!
• Arena games don’t last as long which means more games which means more rewards!

what are you basing these on?

Conquest needs to match 10 people! 3v3 arenas only need to match 6! Shorter queue times!
Conquest games are essentially slow countdowns to 500 points! All you need to do in arenas is slay the other team! Look at the weekly 2v2 tournaments that Mistpedia hosts! The match durations are but a fraction of the 5v5 conquest games! Fast matches = more reward track progress win or lose!

GrandmaFunk.3052:

so here’s an analogy: conquest/stronghold and other objective-based modes are like football or baseball, whereas deathmatch style PvP, is like playing catch.

it’s fine to enjoy both kinds of activities, the problem is when you keep trying to frame the discussion around deathmatch being the “real PvP”.

Arenas aren’t deathmatch! Arenas are arenas! Deathmatch would be like Courtyard aka terrible! Arenas are small fights on small maps! Small fights prevents too many people focusing down one target to automatically win the fight! Small maps prevents long, drawn out kiting and running away like in WvW!

zinkz.7045:

Except that even with Blizzard and an 11m playerbase they failed, guess what arena sucked, running round pillars was not fun to watch.

The top WoW arena streamer right now has over 2000 viewers! The last WoW arena tournament had more viewers than WTS! The last WoW arena tournament had more viewers than double the WTS viewers! The last WoW arena tournament had more than just 4 teams lol! But this isn’t a thread about WoW arenas! This is a thread about Guild Warts 2 arenas and how much it would benefit the game! I’m not sure why you are attacking me personally when all I am suggesting is to add more features into the game! So unfrandly! So silly! Get good son!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

100% agree with 2v2 and 3v3 being the PVP this game needs to get a reboot in a player base, I personally believe it is the only hope.

For splitting player base is just silly, thats like saying lets not innovate any cpu hardware cause then we will have people playing new games and old games and we wont have enough people in either. (and yes there is some of this to a very small extent eg.. blizzard having very low gpu/cpu requirements)

If we can get a BIGGER player base,faster ques,less requirements on time management with smaller teams the game would drastically expand its base. Everyone who i played with before has quit and will come back for a few weeks on the expansion and then leave again.

No one wants or coordinate 5 guys a few days a week getting together to practice rotations as a enjoyment.

In closing we probably should just keep fighting about nerfing cele and might stacking and how to do so for our beloved conquest as more and more people leave this game.

love ormus

Tao.5096:

ArrDee.2573:

Tao.5096:

What does Lord Rush and conquest have anything to do with being esports or not?

My thoughts exactly! Anet is trying to make conquest esports! Possibly stronghold too! This will fail! In fact if you go by twitch viewers, it’s already failed! It’s hard to watch on twitch! It’s boring to watch on twitch! It’s a PvP game mode where the primary objective isn’t PvP! It just doesn’t work!

That’s not what I meant.

If we’re focusing so much on esports then:
Counter-Strike
Since I can remember, CS was always about
- plant Bomb = Win
- save Hostages = Win
You don’t even need to kill anyone from opponent team.

Now how different is Lord Rush amd Conquest?
Lord Rush gives you 1/3rd of points to win.
Conquest is slower.

Compare it to MOBA?
Why?
MOBA is balanced?
So far as I know, those eSport MOBA games have their chars which are walking Gw2NecroLichForm.

Adding, 2v2 and 3v3 arenas would be fine.
Focusing on TDM maps isn’t good as well.
It’ll only narrow viable builds for those modes.
Mostly, go full zerk or tank and go after marks.

Counter strike is never played that way in a competitive setting. Now watch my huttball video where I just score I don’t fight. I played swtor for objective only and would not fight people at all. It was troll and I never lost a game, was it a challenge not at all. Few games push a players skill. Right now cs go is that game and mmo’s will never be thought of that way. Gw2 community has to stop dreaming about Doritos sponsorships and a paid trip to towns I’d never want to visit. Do it for the troll in you!

ArrDee.2573:

Arenas aren’t deathmatch! Arenas are arenas! Deathmatch would be like Courtyard aka terrible! Arenas are small fights on small maps! Small fights prevents too many people focusing down one target to automatically win the fight! Small maps prevents long, drawn out kiting and running away like in WvW!

How are they different, specifically?

IMO: Courtyard is pretty much a perfect example of “small fights on small maps”

I love both arena and stronghold type pvp. I think Guildwars should have both and allow the player base to determine which mode become the premier esport. Meanwhile, I think conquest mode is dull and boring both as a player and spectator.

I say implement atleast 2v2 arena.

Seperate it from the conquest queue.

Max three rounds. Two wins means victory.

Implement leaderboards that shows class compositions.

Let the players decide if they like conquest or arena more.

Best regards!

GrandmaFunk.3052:

ArrDee.2573:

Arenas aren’t deathmatch! Arenas are arenas! Deathmatch would be like Courtyard aka terrible! Arenas are small fights on small maps! Small fights prevents too many people focusing down one target to automatically win the fight! Small maps prevents long, drawn out kiting and running away like in WvW!

How are they different, specifically?

IMO: Courtyard is pretty much a perfect example of “small fights on small maps”

Good question my frand!

Deathmatch like I said is like Courtyard! If you die, you respawn a short while later! Ideally you respawn instantly! You receive points for kills and whichever team reaches the score limit wins! In comparison to Courtyard, arenas are even smaller fights on even smaller maps! A good size for an arena map would be the Graveyard point and the surrounding cliffs and platforms on Legacy of the Foefire! Arena mode pits a team of 2 or 3 against another team of 2 or 3! When one team wipes, the game is over! No respawns! No score limit! No score at all!

5v5 is too big for arenas! It just turns into a clusterfudge of AoE spam! If 5 people are focusing one person, that person will explode no matter how many defensive cooldowns he has! 3v3 is the perfect amount! 2v2s can also work well! A person can survive attacks from 3 people and his teammates can peel and put counter pressure on the enemy team without it devolving into a zerg AoE spamfest!

On the other hand 5v5 is too small for deathmatch! Deathmatch works best on a large map with many players! 5v5 works well with objective based PvP like conquest but is just too small for a deathmatch brawl to be any kind of fun! And then we have the Courtyard map itself! The issue with Courtyard is that it goes by conquest rules because while Anet implemented a deathmatch map, they did not implement deathmatch rules! Then they just stuck it into a conquest rotation and you wonder why most people hate it! The respawn timer is too long! The map is plagued with terrain bugs and wacky camera angles!

Hope that helped! Wahoo! Bye frands!

I enjoy 2 v. 2s but the team has been struggling to balance the one sole game mode for two years, let alone a non-conquest map. That said I agree with VeeWee that they should just throw it in anyway. Couldn’t hurt.

ArrDee.2573:

The top WoW arena streamer right now has over 2000 viewers! The last WoW arena tournament had more viewers than WTS! The last WoW arena tournament had more viewers than double the WTS viewers! The last WoW arena tournament had more than just 4 teams lol! But this isn’t a thread about WoW arenas! This is a thread about Guild Warts 2 arenas and how much it would benefit the game! I’m not sure why you are attacking me personally when all I am suggesting is to add more features into the game! So unfrandly! So silly! Get good son!

You are the one that brought up WoW, not me, and it failed as an e-sport, that the most successful MMO by far gets more viewers than GW2 does not mean much, WoW has around the same number of players as DOTA 2, you want compare how much a WoW tournament gets to a game that is actually successful as an e-sport.

Arena doesn’t work as an e-sport, it is too simplistic and too low skilled, and you talking like an 8 year old doesn’t change that.

If you wanted to make a post about how you would like to add arenas as another mode, you should of stuck with that, rather than bringing WoW & “e-sports” into it, as citing a game mode that was dumped by e-sports despite having a massive playerbase and the wealthiest gaming company behind it does not make for a convincing argument.

My frand you should stop hating on arenas because it’s the most esports of them all! Vee Wee just wants to add a new game mode that has so many positives and no negatives! The only negative thing is you you unfrandly silly bear! So get good son and long live arenas, more esports than conquest! More esports than stronghold!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

zinkz.7045:

Arena doesn’t work as an e-sport, it is too simplistic and too low skilled

If you’re talking about this game’s pvp then I’m questioning your knowledge of it. The game, with such build diversity, is so complicated that there are numerous more Bad players than good ones regardless if they have a meta build.

Saiyan.1704:

zinkz.7045:

Arena doesn’t work as an e-sport, it is too simplistic and too low skilled

If you’re talking about this game’s pvp then I’m questioning your knowledge of it. The game, with such build diversity, is so complicated that there are numerous more Bad players than good ones regardless if they have a meta build.

Mechanically there’s a pretty low skill ceiling (< not so good thing) and very low skill floor (< good thing). The good ones vs the bad ones is mostly because of more subtle things: i.e. rotating, picking right fights, reinforcing, cleave or stomp, etc.

I mean, mechanically speaking, it’s mostly cooldown management, efficient skill rotations and weighing the opportunity costs.

butch.8136:

Saiyan.1704:

zinkz.7045:

Arena doesn’t work as an e-sport, it is too simplistic and too low skilled

If you’re talking about this game’s pvp then I’m questioning your knowledge of it. The game, with such build diversity, is so complicated that there are numerous more Bad players than good ones regardless if they have a meta build.

Mechanically there’s a pretty low skill ceiling (< not so good thing) and very low skill floor (< good thing). The good ones vs the bad ones is mostly because of more subtle things: i.e. rotating, picking right fights, reinforcing, cleave or stomp, etc.

I mean, mechanically speaking, it’s mostly cooldown management, efficient skill rotations and weighing the opportunity costs.

you honestly sound like someone who has never tried to compete in Arena games. 3v3 is a high skill cap, takes ALOT more teamwork than 5v5 conquest. Granted tho, i have only played arena in MMOs with your typical healer/tank/dps type game, but that just means you dont have to focus on healer harassment/killing. But in previous games ive played with arena, the best PvPers in the game, no matter the mode, was the people at the top of the arenas.

also, Arena is a whole lot more viewer friendly than conquest. much easier for your average person to turn it on and understand what is going on. i can barely stand to watch conquest and i know what is going on, i cant imagine someone trying to enjoy it who doesnt know the game. one thing you have to consider with esports is how your common viewer is going to understand and enjoy. LoL is successful because it is very simplistic and easy to understand. it also has the appearance of being a low skill game, which attracts people to try it/have dreams of being one of the best.
but at the same time, GW2 will never be a successful esports game. it is designed around PvE (and by customer base rightly so) and not PvP. It would be like LoL basing their entire game off of playing the bots. It would fail miserably.
i dont have hopes of this game ever being an esport, but i still want arena because it is more fun and a higher skilled mode. if you die you dont respawn, so you have to have great survival skills, you have to work to not only focus an opponent but keep the others off your back (its a small map cant run away), and you have to communicate with your team even if youre a pug to stand any chance. in conquest, you can contribute without communicating, being good, or even average. in arena an average player gets smoked fast and a team that doesnt communicate is a free win.

^ I didn’t really talk about arenas. I replied on the fact that he claims that there are more good players than bad players solely because of mechanical skill. Which I don’t agree with for the reasons I stated.

As for arenas, I have to disagree. There is not a single game with deathmatch (which arenas are) as it’s primary gamemode that is esports except WoW. And WoW is solely an ‘esport’ because they have a huge population.

Anyway, I touched upon the matter in other threads. No need to get back into that discussion here.

butch.8136:

And WoW is solely an ‘esport’ because they have a huge population.

Some people don’t understand that if a game has 10+ mil subscribers and you’ll throw a pvp towel with no matter what mode and call it eSports, it’s going to be legit anyway.
Because that’s all there is to do with eSports – participants + viewers.

WoW Arena have more viewers because WoW just more popular and have biggest community.
Problem with e-sport in gw2 not game mode. Main problem – game mechanic, where we don’t have “wow!” moments. In dota 2 player can wipe full enemy team. Moba and shooters much simplest than MMO – every newbie can understand what happens, when player pop Super-mega-ultimate or make triple headshot.
And ofc popularity. If sPvP take another free game client – player base grow very-very fast. All e-sport games in last years free to play, except Blizzard products. But Blizzard is different story.

Anet should just give free pvp clients. Then there will be more players and you can easily put in 2v2/3v3 arenas without getting not enough players for the other game modes

Oh look, Another post from him on the same exact subject. Whats different on this post from the last ones he has posted?

1: I think the other one had more exclamation marks.
2: I think the other one he actually tried to type like an 8 year old. Moving down in age I see.
3: The other ones have had diagrams and pop up books.
4: He may have talked in 3rd person more in his past posts about this. Hard to say.

Although adding in a 2v2 mode would be cool you could never push conquest into hotjoin only. That is childish thinking, but I guess that makes sense coming form you.

Also as stated, you cannot compare this to WoW Esports. That just makes no sense. Reason it’s not Esports is outside viewers have no idea what is going on. No ‘big’ shift in events in their eyes. To us, yes; but not to them.

Thanks for bumping my thread my frand! Even though it was just a useless post with personal attacks, the bump is much appreciated! Try to be frandlier in the future! A little bit of frandliness can go a long way!

Anet plz! This game needs arenas! I personally know many people who hate this game’s PvP but would come back and play it if it had arenas!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

+1 all for this. However I think at this pt Anet is never going to admit conquest was a bad idea.

Puppet.9712:

Oh look, Another post from him on the same exact subject. Whats different on this post from the last ones he has posted?

1: I think the other one had more exclamation marks.
2: I think the other one he actually tried to type like an 8 year old. Moving down in age I see.
3: The other ones have had diagrams and pop up books.
4: He may have talked in 3rd person more in his past posts about this. Hard to say.

Haters gonna hate, lovers gonna love. I don’t even want none of the above. I want to kitten on you.

Although adding in a 2v2 mode would be cool you could never push conquest into hotjoin only. That is childish thinking, but I guess that makes sense coming form you.

im sorry if i missed it been when did our frand here say conquest should go to hotjoin?

Also as stated, you cannot compare this to WoW Esports. That just makes no sense. Reason it’s not Esports is outside viewers have no idea what is going on. No ‘big’ shift in events in their eyes. To us, yes; but not to them.

exactly the point. conquest doesnt make much sense to a random person. arenas are a simple concept to pick up on and therefore more popular with your random viewer. arenas are more esport than conquest by a long shot.
heck i cant even stand to watch the pvp in GW2, and i know what the heck is going on. i cant imagine someone who has never played trying to watch.

ArrDee.2573:

Conquest and Stronghold should be relegated to hotjoins as they are just casual PvP game modes that nobody cares about! And if you do care about them, well you can still play them!

He said it right here. This is if I can post this without getting a 3rd infraction for being reported by VeeWee again today……

Can’t push it into hotjoin. Also coordinating 5v5 is a hella lot more complicated then just coordinating with 1 person. 2v2 and conquest make no difference to the viewer. The skills are still the same and won’t be understood by people outside of the game. This is nothing like any other game and therefore cannot be compared to any other Esports. Every other game has big damage dealers and healers etc. Hard for people to watch full sustain & damage builds because they don’t understand it. It is not like anything else. 2v2, 3v3, 20v20 won’t change that. You want arenas? Fine ask for them, but don’t try to compare it to other games that are COMPLETELY different in the aspect of fighting. Fighting is all viewers want to see and is what interest them if they see ‘big’ event changes.

Simple truth is, it doesn’t matter if you hate arenas or not. The only reason to hate them (as long as it’s not forced on you) is fear that it will be too popular and invalidate conquest entirely and make matches take too long to start up. But here’s my view, not having them is a research and development bomb on heir part. Let me explain why.

- The market and player preferences are gravitating toward smaller scale and faster gameplay. Arenas provide a quick play style that can be fun and effective for a person and their friend (or two), which is very commonly a “natural” group of primary friends in MMOs. Beyond that you tend to recruit or have secondary friends to fill a specific comp, but generally speaking about 2-3 main friends are playing together at a given time. Simply because that’s an easier relationship to uphold, people are used to doing things in pairs. That, and it’s quicker than working around 5 people or more.

- While it may temporarily remove some of the queue pool for conquest, it has a good chance to bring in more players from pve and other games. Thus, it would expand the pvp crowd in gw2. The drawn players and many arena lovers will still likely do Conquest modes at times, they’re not mutually exclusive. In net, it could broaden the pvp base and may even allow for more focus of resources INTO pvp in general, which in sure no one could argue with here, it would be great.

- 2v2s dont need much help. We’ve had 2v2 tournies for a long time. It just needs support so it’s more organized to play outside of tournies and rewarding for those who prefer that play style (Ie silver/gold and reward tracks). Dueling and 2v2 currently both suffer greatly from unorganized rooms, griefers and no reward/incentive outside of fun. And it STILL can max out multiple customs rooms based purely on the draw of “fun”. That says a lot.

- Guild Wars 2 is losing so much by not taking advantage of this because they have the perfect set up for it. It doesn’t have healers and a unique means of self sustain and revival. It doesn’t require any pve or leveling up to be competitive and takes no time (essentially) to theory craft and create new builds and compositions. No other MMO in the world can claim the same freedom and accessibility as GW2 could. To ignore that is foolish, unbelievably so.

- Arena is more interesting to watch. Frankly, seeing a guy roll around on a point to survive and rarely fight to kill is a terrible objective for esports. People want bloodshed. Smaller arena fights allow for easy viewing and are much easier to explain the processes involved. And saw what you will about team size, but more doesnt always mean harder. The larger groups get, the more a bad player can be carried. Especially in 2v2s if both players aren’t on their toes, it will often end up bad for that team.

So those are just some considerations. I hope ANet swallows their pride and puts some real thought into this, because it kills me to see this amount of sheer wasted potential.

Nicely put my frand ronpierce!

Wahoo! Bye frands!