Guild Wars 2

removing the amulet would immediately remove the two most overpowered builds (celestial engie/ele) in the game and nothing else would really suffer, as nothing really uses celestial aside from these two ridiculously overpowered builds.

ask anyone, celestial is singlehandedly ruining the game for everyone that doesn’t play it.

Lol.

Warriors and guardians use celestial. Besides it is not the amulet alone that is the cause of the worst issues.

Also, cele meta is really not that bad. You think engi and ele are OP? I say, get good.

Dawes.2378:

Also, cele meta is really not that bad. You think engi and ele are OP? I say, get good.

They are overpowered, please tell me to get good as well.

SobeSoul.6910:

Lol.

Warriors and guardians use celestial. Besides it is not the amulet alone that is the cause of the worst issues.

i dont care what a few niche builds that will never see meta status use or dont use. celestial is through and through a problem thanks to elementalist and engineer, and since anet has shown absolutely no intention of fixing this problem with a finessed solution, i propose they take the easiest course of action and just remove the amulet.

Dawes.2378:

Also, cele meta is really not that bad. You think engi and ele are OP? I say, get good.

not that bad? celestial has completely warped the meta to whoever has the most players using celestial wins. look at abjured, their entire comp is based around celestial with two celestial eles and a celestial engineer. get good? please. anyone that doesn’t think that celestial builds are ridiculous is ignorant beyond comprehension.

The celestial guardians and warriors were in finals of ESLs and I believe the WTS. lol.

Hmm. Any top team is going to run the top builds, your argument is a bit weak. Abjured also plays rather well, that’s what sets them apart from the rest of us schmucks. Team composition and time spent practicing is what won WTS, not the celestial amulet. Whatever the “OP” build is, the top dogs are going to play it. You call it cheesy, the rest of us call it strong. If you want to compete, play strong builds, that is how any game works. If you don’t want to compete, please don’t talk about meta.

TO THE POSTER, I just wanted to say, you ARE the most intelligent individual in the world, your thoughts on this forum have graced us like the hand of an angel. I hope you live a long and wonderful life.

Dawes.2378:

Hmm. Any top team is going to run the top builds, your argument is a bit weak. Abjured also plays rather well, that’s what sets them apart from the rest of us schmucks. Team composition and time spent practicing is what won WTS, not the celestial amulet. Whatever the “OP” build is, the top dogs are going to play it. You call it cheesy, the rest of us call it strong. If you want to compete, play strong builds, that is how any game works. If you don’t want to compete, please don’t talk about meta.

“exploit what’s broken that’s what makes you a pro”

no wonder this game is almost dead

you’re absolutely dillusional if you think players like wakkey are capable of playing this game without crutches.

Because we all know that people don’t play Loki in Smite <insert>eyeroll.jpg</insert> or w/e happens to be broken in LoL.

No offense, I have played every single class in this game with at least 500+ hrs. Granted a lot of that time was roaming in wvw, but Elementalist and engineer are the hardest classes to play, whether or not they’re OP, and if you think it is faceroll it’s time for you to get good.

SobeSoul.6910:

Because we all know that people don’t play Loki in Smite <insert>eyeroll.jpg</insert> or w/e happens to be broken in LoL.

No offense, I have played every single class in this game with at least 500+ hrs. Granted a lot of that time was roaming in wvw, but Elementalist and engineer are the hardest classes to play, whether or not they’re OP, and if you think it is faceroll it’s time for you to get good.

Literally no respect for you whatsoever, your answers are meaningless to me at this point, I would point out the sheer number of things you are wrong about in that statement, but I would probably get banned from this forum.

Firebird.8324:

SobeSoul.6910:

Because we all know that people don’t play Loki in Smite <insert>eyeroll.jpg</insert> or w/e happens to be broken in LoL.

No offense, I have played every single class in this game with at least 500+ hrs. Granted a lot of that time was roaming in wvw, but Elementalist and engineer are the hardest classes to play, whether or not they’re OP, and if you think it is faceroll it’s time for you to get good.

Literally no respect for you whatsoever, your answers are meaningless to me at this point, I would point out the sheer number of things you are wrong about in that statement, but I would probably get banned from this forum.

Yes, Lich skill one takes an incredibly high skill level that keeping track of weapon kits and attunement swaps doesn’t. Maybe I should even up my skill level by putting on mercy runes and following my team mates around to res them.

SobeSoul.6910:

Firebird.8324:

SobeSoul.6910:

Because we all know that people don’t play Loki in Smite <insert>eyeroll.jpg</insert> or w/e happens to be broken in LoL.

No offense, I have played every single class in this game with at least 500+ hrs. Granted a lot of that time was roaming in wvw, but Elementalist and engineer are the hardest classes to play, whether or not they’re OP, and if you think it is faceroll it’s time for you to get good.

Literally no respect for you whatsoever, your answers are meaningless to me at this point, I would point out the sheer number of things you are wrong about in that statement, but I would probably get banned from this forum.

Yes, Lich skill one takes an incredibly high skill level that keeping track of weapon kits and attunement swaps doesn’t. Maybe I should even up my skill level by putting on mercy runes and following my team mates around to res them.

buddy, lich WAS overpowered, they nerfed it. Now Cele ele and Cele engi and Cele warrior are overpowered BECAUSE of their amulet, also, you DO NOT play in high tier pvp, so you have no idea what it’s like to face teams of people who exploit cele like there is no tomorrow.

I know it’s fun to bash on Cele but I feel the need to remind you these players are still out of our league without Celestial Amulet. You talk about abusing it, that is a joke. They are using the best builds available because they are the best competitors in this game. In any game you can see the top teams playing builds that scrubs will call “OP” or “cheesy” it does not change the fact that these guys will always out rotate you or I.

I have played against your team before. I have also played against GF, APEX and a few other teams in the past with casual players in the old tpvp system. You guys don’t even compare on an individual skill level. Your team just reminds me of WvW zergers.

And if you think ele and engie aren’t harder classes to play than other classes also lol…

I’m talking about mechanics and not balance if you don’t understand.

ps Go back and look at the notes for the lich “nerf”.. lol…

SobeSoul.6910:

I have played against your team before. I have also played against GF, APEX and a few other teams in the past with casual players in the old tpvp system. You guys don’t even compare on an individual skill level. Your team just reminds me of WvW zergers.

And if you think ele and engie aren’t harder classes to play than other classes also lol…

I’m talking about mechanics and not balance if you don’t understand.

ps Go back and look at the notes for the lich “nerf”.. lol…

hi Ive been playing competitive pvp for a while
yes individually radioactive is not that great
however I would also like to point out that d/d ele and cele engi are ridiculously easy builds to run. Seriously try to play them in competitive pvp with like 5-15hours and youll do just fine. I consistantly beat people with my <20 hour d/d ele who have played thousands of hours on their classes (I still got rekt by caed in that ESL monthly tho cuz Ive never fought a dp thief on my ele before LOL)

Booms.2594:

SobeSoul.6910:

I have played against your team before. I have also played against GF, APEX and a few other teams in the past with casual players in the old tpvp system. You guys don’t even compare on an individual skill level. Your team just reminds me of WvW zergers.

And if you think ele and engie aren’t harder classes to play than other classes also lol…

I’m talking about mechanics and not balance if you don’t understand.

ps Go back and look at the notes for the lich “nerf”.. lol…

hi Ive been playing competitive pvp for a while
yes individually radioactive is not that great
however I would also like to point out that d/d ele and cele engi are ridiculously easy builds to run. Seriously try to play them in competitive pvp with like 5-15hours and youll do just fine. I consistantly beat people with my <20 hour d/d ele who have played thousands of hours on their classes (I still got rekt by caed in that ESL monthly tho cuz Ive never fought a dp thief on my ele before LOL)

I am not talking about whether builds are easy, but the mechanics of controlling characters.

Would you say a necro or ele is harder to play given just mechanics alone, and not opponents, positioning, builds?

SobeSoul.6910:

Lol.

Warriors and guardians use celestial. Besides it is not the amulet alone that is the cause of the worst issues.

Hi. As a warrior main who has been bottlenecked into celestial I would love nothing more than for it to be removed. As a warrior who stacks might even more than you do on your ele, I would love nothing more than for might stacking to be toned down.

So, please don’t try to speak for us. Most of us would prefer to be able to kill people with power and CC weapons rather than with Geomancy sigils.

DaveGan.8065:

SobeSoul.6910:

Lol.

Warriors and guardians use celestial. Besides it is not the amulet alone that is the cause of the worst issues.

Hi. As a warrior main who has been bottlenecked into celestial I would love nothing more than for it to be removed. As a warrior who stacks might even more than you do on your ele, I would love nothing more than for might stacking to be toned down.

So, please don’t try to speak for us. Most of us would prefer to be able to kill people with power and CC weapons rather than with Geomancy sigils.

Want to compare hours on warriors?

There’s nothing stopping you from killing people with hammers and other weapon sets except you watched one or two guys play specific builds.

I would guess I ran hambow less then 30% of the time on my warrior in spvp matches when that was a thing and did fine. Was even good on ye olde killshot builds. Though obviously if I was in ESLs or tournaments I wouldn’t play certain stuff unless the team was built around it.

SobeSoul.6910:

Want to compare hours on warriors?

I’m have no interest in your deflection or attempt to appeal to authority. If you truly have as many hours on warrior as you claim, then draw from that authority instead.

My point still stands. I would gladly give up all the benefits that celestial and might stacking have on warriors, because then I would be able to viably move to something else.

Nerf Cele!

NAH NONE OF YOU ARE TOURNEY PLAYERS SHUT UP

Cele remains.

This discussion gets more dumb with each thread.

DaveGan.8065:

SobeSoul.6910:

Want to compare hours on warriors?

I’m have no interest in your deflection or attempt to appeal to authority. If you truly have as many hours on warrior as you claim, then draw from that authority instead.

My point still stands. I would gladly give up all the benefits that celestial and might stacking have on warriors, because then I would be able to viably move to something else.

It isn’t an appeal to authority. Warriors pigeon hole themselves into some belief only x-builds work when it simply is not true.

Tell me more about how hambow is viable against celestial eles on points. Should we be looking at your vigor or protection uptime instead?

The main purpose of the current shout warrior only seems to be to have enough sustain and on-demand condition removal to stalemate eles in this meta.

DaveGan.8065:

Tell me more about how hambow is viable against celestial eles on points. Should we be looking at your vigor or protection uptime instead?

The main purpose of the current shout warrior only seems to be to have enough sustain and on-demand condition removal to stalemate eles in this meta.

I didn’t say hambow.

You are stating a warrior’s role is stalemate eles. This is neglecting a lot of aspects of warriors. Warriors can have multiple roles with the diversity of builds they have available to them.

Shoutbow and Hambow only server one purpose.

Evis builds can be strong
Hammer with a number of offhand weapons can be strong as well
Rifle warrior was strong but lol rangers stole the role

Fact is you want to play a bunk role. That’s fine, but don’t say that’s the only viable thing when other things work with team support.

Also tell me about the vigor, the stance durations, fury uptime, on warriors.

Just because you may only play metabuilds doesn’t mean warriors don’t have access to some nice things.

SobeSoul.6910:

DaveGan.8065:

Tell me more about how hambow is viable against celestial eles on points. Should we be looking at your vigor or protection uptime instead?

The main purpose of the current shout warrior only seems to be to have enough sustain and on-demand condition removal to stalemate eles in this meta.

I didn’t say hambow.

You are stating a warrior’s role is stalemate eles. This is neglecting a lot of aspects of warriors. Warriors can have multiple roles with the diversity of builds they have available to them.

Shoutbow and Hambow only server one purpose.

Evis builds can be strong
Hammer with a number of offhand weapons can be strong as well
Rifle warrior was strong but lol rangers stole the role

Fact is you want to play a bunk role. That’s fine, but don’t say that’s the only viable thing when other things work with team support.

Also tell me about the vigor, the stance durations, fury uptime, on warriors.

Just because you may only play metabuilds doesn’t mean warriors don’t have access to some nice things.

I’m still waiting for your lists of nice things and what else roles can a warrior play.

SobeSoul.6910:

Fact is you want to play a bunk role. That’s fine, but don’t say that’s the only viable thing when other things work with team support.

I would actually prefer point assaulter. But who would dare run glass on a warrior today?

But the irony is that with the current ele meta, shout warrior is actually the best at fulfilling this role, and happens to be able to bunk as well.

And please, spare me the bits about team support. Shout warrior is currently one of the strongest might stackers and additionally has group vigor, swiftness, condition removal, warbanner, and heals.

“Team support” in the traditional sense is also disappearing, as teams have started replacing their guardians with additional eles, engis, or warriors.

By the way, what role would you like D/D ele to be? And how would you tone down the other aspects of the ele to bring it back down to earth?

Wat?

Eles and engies offer a ton of team support in the traditional sense. How is healing, sharing some boons, and condi clearing (if engie is running e-gun opposed to one of the other stun breaker utils) not tradition team support?

I have already stated that a shave to the celestial amulet and reducing might from 35 power and condi per stack to 25 or some other level that is reasonable would be how I would start to balance those two classes.

My view is the sustain on ele and engie is fine. The damage on top of it is what pushes them over the edge.

Anet should probably look at how traits work on eles and engies a little since there’s not as much room to deviate with builds as some other classes have.

SobeSoul.6910:

Wat?

Eles and engies offer a ton of team support in the traditional sense. How is healing, sharing some boons, and condi clearing (if engie is running e-gun opposed to one of the other stun breaker utils) not tradition team support?

Because unlike the traditional bunker guardians, eles, engis, and warriors can easily kill people while bunkering/contesting/assaulting a point.

SobeSoul.6910:

Anet should probably look at how traits work on eles and engies a little since there’s not as much room to deviate with builds as some other classes have.

You should probably emphasize this point a bit more, because only reducing might to 25 is a joke for a class that just runs around surviving until people burn to death. If there’s not a big hit to your burn durations then you should expect internal cooldowns for Cleansing Water and a higher ICD for Renewing Stamina.

DaveGan.8065:

SobeSoul.6910:

Wat?

Eles and engies offer a ton of team support in the traditional sense. How is healing, sharing some boons, and condi clearing (if engie is running e-gun opposed to one of the other stun breaker utils) not tradition team support?

Because unlike the traditional bunker guardians, eles, engis, and warriors can easily kill people while bunkering/contesting/assaulting a point.

SobeSoul.6910:

Anet should probably look at how traits work on eles and engies a little since there’s not as much room to deviate with builds as some other classes have.

You should probably emphasize this point a bit more, because only reducing might to 25 is a joke for a class that just runs around surviving until people burn to death. If there’s not a big hit to your burn durations then you should expect internal cooldowns for Cleansing Water and a higher ICD for Renewing Stamina.

Can’t emphasize the point of traits too much when there’s so much work that could be done on all eight classes in that area.

I actually never played a class because of their OPness. My ele and engie are two of my oldest toons and I play them for fun. I would prefer a gw2 world where all classes brought equal stuff to the plate. I like mesmer just as much as the other two classes but it’s incredibly hard to play and doesn’t help teams enough imo.

NonToxic.9185:

Nerf Cele!

NAH NONE OF YOU ARE TOURNEY PLAYERS SHUT UP

Cele remains.

This discussion gets more dumb with each thread.

^This , removal is just an absurd and worse thing a player could propose. It is well known that boon counter is lacking, Anet need to stop their shaving policy and improve the areas that counter boons on other specs/classes, btw at the rate of QQ all thief specs will be as viable as p/p in conquest or TDM.

Stop proposing nerfs ,search the lacking part of the class that you so call main or learned if you did and post that instead and don’t show favoritism, all classes should be capable of filling a certain role anywhere on the risk/reward line even jack of all trades because there has to be a middle ground if extremities exist.

This thread is just dumb.

Sagat.3285:

NonToxic.9185:

Nerf Cele!

NAH NONE OF YOU ARE TOURNEY PLAYERS SHUT UP

Cele remains.

This discussion gets more dumb with each thread.

^This , removal is just an absurd and worse thing a player could propose. It is well known that boon counter is lacking, Anet need to stop their shaving policy and improve the areas that counter boons on other specs/classes, btw at the rate of QQ all thief specs will be as viable as p/p in conquest or TDM.

Stop proposing nerfs ,search the lacking part of the class that you so call main or learned if you did and post that instead and don’t show favoritism, all classes should be capable of filling a certain role anywhere on the risk/reward line even jack of all trades because there has to be a middle ground if extremities exist.

This thread is just dumb.

the most ridiculous builds are running rampant and anet has not made so much as a single word on the matter, ridiculous problems call for ridiculous solutions.

sinject.4607:

ask anyone, celestial is singlehandedly ruining the game for everyone that doesn’t play it.

I have asked a great deal of people. Everyone of them disagreed. They believe it is a perfect storm problem. Certain traits combined with certain other traits, combines with certain runes, combined with certain sigils, combined with specific healing+utility skills are problematic, not amulets.

sinject.4607:

the most ridiculous builds are running rampant and anet has not made so much as a single word on the matter, ridiculous problems call for ridiculous solutions.

Umm, yes, they have. You like to make a great deal of false claims about Anet, that are contradicted in print. You really should not use disingenuous statements if you wish to have a serious discussion.

Booms.2594:

SobeSoul.6910:

I have played against your team before. I have also played against GF, APEX and a few other teams in the past with casual players in the old tpvp system. You guys don’t even compare on an individual skill level. Your team just reminds me of WvW zergers.

And if you think ele and engie aren’t harder classes to play than other classes also lol…

I’m talking about mechanics and not balance if you don’t understand.

ps Go back and look at the notes for the lich “nerf”.. lol…

hi Ive been playing competitive pvp for a while
yes individually radioactive is not that great
however I would also like to point out that d/d ele and cele engi are ridiculously easy builds to run. Seriously try to play them in competitive pvp with like 5-15hours and youll do just fine. I consistantly beat people with my <20 hour d/d ele who have played thousands of hours on their classes (I still got rekt by caed in that ESL monthly tho cuz Ive never fought a dp thief on my ele before LOL)

hi I’ve been playing competitive pvp for a while
yes individually radioactive is not that great
however i would like to point out that their builds are very easy to play… In fact…. it turns out NOTHING IN THIS GAME IS OR WILL EVER BE hard to play….

Why doesn’t Boreal beat Abjured? why doesn’t bob and joe’s cele team beat Boreal?
Because regardless of the comp the better players will still be on top…

This game which is aiming for exports, should be balanced from the top down… at the top, we see the best players…. People saying players like Wakkey and other Abjured members would be no-one without celestial….
Well here we go
BEFORE CELESTIAL
Wakkey- Played on Good Fights the best team on NA for about 6 months
Magic Toker-Played on Good Fights the best team on NA for about 6 months
Five Guage- Played on Good Fights the best team on NA for about 6 months
Phantaram- Played on Team Paradigm and The Civilized Gentlemen
Noscoc-doesnt use cele
Caed- doesn’t use cele
Ostrich Eggs- used rabid for most of career on top teams
the list goes on…

The best players will be at the top regardless of the meta….
Celestial is honestly probably the best meta this game has ever seen…

Lets review
Bunker- no fun, no kills, super slow games
Burst- un-avoidable insta kills, basically who instantly kills the other without counter play
Condi- slowly melt to death

Celestial Combines condis bunker and DPS>>> You can instant kill if you combo, you can overload with condis, you can sustain if grouped up… IE it combines all the play styles into one…. catering to all play types.. This actually allows the greatest build diversity and comp diversity..

Aaron.2413:

Booms.2594:

SobeSoul.6910:

I have played against your team before. I have also played against GF, APEX and a few other teams in the past with casual players in the old tpvp system. You guys don’t even compare on an individual skill level. Your team just reminds me of WvW zergers.

And if you think ele and engie aren’t harder classes to play than other classes also lol…

I’m talking about mechanics and not balance if you don’t understand.

ps Go back and look at the notes for the lich “nerf”.. lol…

hi Ive been playing competitive pvp for a while
yes individually radioactive is not that great
however I would also like to point out that d/d ele and cele engi are ridiculously easy builds to run. Seriously try to play them in competitive pvp with like 5-15hours and youll do just fine. I consistantly beat people with my <20 hour d/d ele who have played thousands of hours on their classes (I still got rekt by caed in that ESL monthly tho cuz Ive never fought a dp thief on my ele before LOL)

hi I’ve been playing competitive pvp for a while
yes individually radioactive is not that great
however i would like to point out that their builds are very easy to play… In fact…. it turns out NOTHING IN THIS GAME IS OR WILL EVER BE hard to play….

Why doesn’t Boreal beat Abjured? why doesn’t bob and joe’s cele team beat Boreal?
Because regardless of the comp the better players will still be on top…

This game which is aiming for exports, should be balanced from the top down… at the top, we see the best players…. People saying players like Wakkey and other Abjured members would be no-one without celestial….
Well here we go
BEFORE CELESTIAL
Wakkey- Played on Good Fights the best team on NA for about 6 months
Magic Toker-Played on Good Fights the best team on NA for about 6 months
Five Guage- Played on Good Fights the best team on NA for about 6 months
Phantaram- Played on Team Paradigm and The Civilized Gentlemen
Noscoc-doesnt use cele
Caed- doesn’t use cele
Ostrich Eggs- used rabid for most of career on top teams
the list goes on…

The best players will be at the top regardless of the meta….
Celestial is honestly probably the best meta this game has ever seen…

Lets review
Bunker- no fun, no kills, super slow games
Burst- un-avoidable insta kills, basically who instantly kills the other without counter play
Condi- slowly melt to death

Celestial Combines condis bunker and DPS>>> You can instant kill if you combo, you can overload with condis, you can sustain if grouped up… IE it combines all the play styles into one…. catering to all play types.. This actually allows the greatest build diversity and comp diversity..

backpack is finally someone you notice since engineer is overpowered and now its the best meta ever.

even if 3/8 classes arent used and 2 of 1 class is required