Guild Wars 2

I seriously died in like 1.5 sec and couldn’t even react to it and I consider myself having good reflexes. Took about 19k hp in 1.5 sec. I’m sure you’ll like the 12k backstab there. and if you look up you’ll see 5k and another 5k from c/d and steal. This needs a fix seriously.

What`s your glory rank , judging by your Peacemaker greatsword i`d say your new to the pvp game. Practice your mesmer some more.

Maybe you need to play more face-roll builds.

I can’t really practice stopping this when he does it in like 1.5 sec.

knight.8926:

I seriously died in like 1.5 sec and couldn’t even react to it and I consider myself having good reflexes. Took about 19k hp in 1.5 sec. I’m sure you’ll like the 12k backstab there. and if you look up you’ll see 5k and another 5k from c/d and steal. This needs a fix seriously.

You have good reflexes but yet your making this post. You contradict yourself, nice try.

that’s how bad it is, I can’t react to it even with my good reflexes.

@knight the day has come when a mesmer is complaining about a thief lol ? where are you clones bro ? Do I really need to start with the l2p thing.

Amen, there is NO reason a class can do that kind of damage in so short of time. I have no doubt thieves will be toned down soon otherwise I would just not play until I heard that they were.

The fact they are invuln or stealthed for 80% of a fight an put out 20k damage in less than 6 seconds is just a joke. The only people not complaining about thieves are people who play them and want their unstoppable pwn machines to remain as they are.

Thieves make up around 30% fo the pvp population on my server and that number will likely go up. You cant go anywhere without duo’s or teams of them waiting at roads in wvw. As thief #s go up in pvp they playerbase #s will go down. Ive had 3 friends quit and go back to Rift and Dark Age of Camelot due to thieves alone.

offence.4726:

@knight the day has come when a mesmer is complaining about a thief lol ? where are you clones bro ? Do I really need to start with the l2p thing.

that’s just it bro, I had no time to prep at all, clones need targets to come out and I had no target at all. I saw him disappear from way across the screen then like I’m dead 2 sec later.

Also to Offence: if you are comparing Mesmers to Thieves then you are severely deficient. There isnt a class in the game that can put out that kind of dps an also be untouchable most of the time theyre doing it. Mesmers are tricky but suffer from one GIANT flaw and I havent died to a Mesmer in a 1v1 situation in wvw or spvp in over 2wks on my Ele. Im not gonna point out their glaring flaw, most people know it lol.

Edit: Knight if youre facing a good player on a thief thats geared out you will almost never get away far enough to start putting illusions up. Even if you decoy-blink or dodge away the thief is just gonna heartseeker right on top of you again an by the time hes done that you are dead or at 25% hp or less an ticking down. You almost have to drop nullfield immediatly soon as they jump you.

On my Ele if I see em coming I can kill them about 1/4 of the time but Im kiting like a mofo an that usually runs me into either help for me or help for them

It always amazes me how people can claim this kind of insta-gib damage is absolutely fine…

use blink…

Message Body length must at least be 15.

Blink/decoy clone when dodging and/or being stealthed and having a clone out at 25% hp. Having these skills bound to keys very close to your movement-skills is crucial. 1½ sec is plenty of time, really … and yes, I know it sounds arrogant, but after a while you realize that it is true

PS: If you are new to the class start out with a less fragile build, perhaps?

Mirror Images (2 Clones) (+ Evade) = 3 Clone
Decoy + Evade + Evade = 3 Clones
Decoy + Evade + Phase Retreat/Mirror Blade…

Use Distortion (f4) or go aggressive (against 14-15k health rogues very doable) – Decoy into Moa for free win, Phantasmal Berserker/Phantasmal Berserker… just play mesmer longer, if you lose a 1v1 it is always your fault.

And btw targets get autoselected – -"

I really dont know how people can say things like " just play mesmer longer, if you lose a 1v1 it is always your fault." when very good players in top teams on streams routinely get oneshotted by thieves without being able to do anything whatsoever.

ehtom.5047:

I really dont know how people can say things like " just play mesmer longer, if you lose a 1v1 it is always your fault." when very good players in top teams on streams routinely get oneshotted by thieves without being able to do anything whatsoever.

All known stream plattform keep the videos and i request the link – now -, i’d really like to see “top players” play againt the 14k life rogue build (the only one who has a slight chance to oneshot anything) and themself not having a amulett to counter this style in their bag and kittening up the gameplay.

I’m not going to link a video of a player I like getting cheesed by an OP build, its common knowledge if you watch or play high level games. You can find examples yourself very easily if you want, literally every tournament stream will have an example of this happening if they play against a good thief.

Well … we said 1½ sec is plenty of time to react; there is a huge difference. I am not saying I find thieves damage to be ok for the effort they put in it (getting hit for 3/4 of my hp before the fight even starts is just weird), but OP did say 1½ sec himself.

@Gajarell: Maybe you need play thief a little more…
You dont need to kitten yourself into full backstab 14k hp build in order to be efficient thief … Yes its too tempting, but yes it can be countered … and guess what ?
Many and viable thief builds around, look at other trait lines, you can get nifty defense while keeping best burst dmg ingame :p
hint: 200 atk power wont change your backstab dmg that much

If you’re bad and rush people cause you feel so op then its your problem for being cc’d to death, no matter if you have 14k hp or 30k hp you would die same way.

I’m not going to link a video of a player I like getting cheesed by an OP build, its common knowledge if you watch or play high level games. You can find examples yourself very easily if you want, literally every tournament stream will have an example of this happening if they play against a good thief.

There is no “high level” currently, due to the complete lack of a ranking – streaming and stomping is not the same. and it is common knowledge that in any given pvp-game 80% of all players think they are in top 20%.

Am i right with assuming that you don’t yet have “champion illusionist/…”?

@CeCa

We are talking about the oneshot – i cant react – rogues as far as i got that. Ofc you can be outplayed by a better rogue, but that is an entirly different topic.

Insta kill is bad and as I wrote in other threads :

→ The steal/cnd exploit as to go and we would see a lot less thief qq threads. And a lot less bug abusers ingame, ie they would roll another class or leave.

The steal/cnd/backstab combo is a massive problem for sure. The damage on that combo needs to be nerfed such that it is no longer viable, because while thieves are about front-loaded damage, that sort of burst should not exist.

The second major problem is that assuming those first three hits don’t kill you, the thief has time to hit 2 HSS before actually rendering on your screen, due to client lag from stealth. This is not ok, especially when the thief can pop back into stealth after 1 second of visibility due to the rendering lag. The restealth delay needs to be bumped up to a minimum of 8 seconds, and damage coming out of stealth needs to be significantly nerfed, perhaps adding a snare or immobilize as a way of giving a stealth-attack advantage.

The main issue at hand is people cannot sit here and say things are fine with the short amount of time it takes for a thief to put out that amount of damage, while being stealthed.

If you play thief or not, you have to understand that the playing field just isn’t balanced at this point. Im not whining because while I do understand how to counter if I do see a thief coming, it’s just that I won’t always see the thief coming and he can end me at the flick of a wrist.

If I could do this as a ranger, ele, necro, or even mesmer, then not only would I not have satisfaction with it, but there would be an outcry for Anet to nullify that high and quick dps.

And more importantly, where’s the combat in a battle like that? If I were a spectator, the matches would simply be boring to watch a thief use that same move over and over to get an easy win

apart from the sin being op at the moment, your logic is flawed – countering them is much less about reaction and reflex than being proactive and anticipating this stuff. That said, dealing with them takes skills above the one of the average scrub in the hot join…

@Gajarell: You do not have to be a good player to see that insta gib is broken. You are correct in that 80% of players always think they are amazing. Since there is no ranking system in this game I will tell you my ranking in another game – I’m in the top 0.1% of players in dota 2 (VH bracket). Dont randomly call people bad when you know nothing about them, what credentials do you have?

must be a lot of thieves in this thread. 12k hits are broken. period.

vespers.1759:

must be a lot of thieves in this thread. 12k hits are broken. period.

Like 50% of the pvp community right now is thieves :P

You have good reflexes?

You do realize 1.5seconds to react is the equivalent of me throwing you a ball, hitting your chest, falling to the ground, and then you trying to catch it.

How can you possibly think that’s good reflexes?

If you want to play glass cannon, you need to know how to react. Shatter mesmer vs Backstab thief is a very even 1v1 and comes down to who lands what.

mesmer complaining about thiefs ? got hit today for 8.1k magestrike with 2800 armor thats working as intended i asume ?

Here’s the thing.

The problem with thieves is now compounding and snowballing to a larger effect which is going to cause more problems and complaints.

The rendering issue - This is causing thieves to have WAY more of an advantage than hey should. When you are fighting a thief for 15 seconds (because you have played well and broke stun and have kept moving) and you continue to hear the thief hitting your toon with multiple auto attacks, and you cannot see the thief AT ALL for those 10 seconds this is a problem. I haven’t been able to physically see a thief while fighting them in SPVP in a long time.

Now combine the Rendering problem with this next issues
More players playing thieves - This issue combined with the rendering issue is compounding the thief problem greatly. Not only is a player dealing with attempting to fight constantly invisible (not being rendered) thieves, but now that there is anywhere from 5-10 thieves PER game this is causing MULTIPLE enemies to be invisible all the time.

This plus the fact that multiple players are now playing thieves, which means that stun break you had is going to save you once out of multiple basilisk venoms is completely frustrating to players, when you start getting in the realm of forcing players to take multiple stun breaks to survive one class then that is completely fringing on other classes ability to play how they want.

Last issue - NO MATTER how kitten good you play against a thief, if your stun breaker is on cool down, once they hit you with basilisk venom there is NOTHIG you can do but die, it is extremely frustrating to get hit with steal, basilisk venom and have your stun real on cool down knowing there is nothing you can do about it, then get downed

Now that being said I am not complaining about thieves, just that these issues are compounding causing more problems. Rendering NEEDS to be fixed, until then players are going to abuse it to being invisible 80-90% of fights.

That Jar-head has a good point. ( <3 )

This massive quick burst damage does feel a little bit strong, but it is almost impossible to truly judge it because right now the rendering issue is turning thieves into monsters.

I usually don’t have too much trouble with them, but I build somewhat defensively AND I spend a lot of time swinging at empty space hoping to hit them.

It’s kind of silly with the rendering stuff.

@ehtom same as your 14k hp thiefs one shotting in paid , pro tpvp tournaments where are those vids ? Dont keep us waiting to long !

if someone has no defensive cooldowns up they should still not be able to be killed in 1.5 seconds, period.

While I agree that the insta-gib combo still needs some work, the fact that you got hit for 12k plus with backstab after the nerf to the signet tells me you are running 0 toughness. If you are having problems with thieves, look into defensive traits. You can still make a dps build with a defensive trait or two. I had to start doing this on my engineer and I can still crit for 7k or more in a single hit on squishy players and I have 25k health and protection up whenever I’m crit. I also have an auto potion at 20% health that makes me evade all attacks. When you are having trouble with something, start playing around with different options, you do not have to have pure offense all the time.

I don’t even really have trouble on my necro either, unless I’m caught completely unaware without any life force or cooldowns. I actually use the portal wurm pet, unlike many necros I see and port my self out of harms way at the first sign of a spike hit. I think a lot of people just do the “cookie cutter” specs, and expect to win and not change anything.

I have a thief as well, and maybe that’s why I know how to counter them easier, but they aren’t that difficult to counter if you build right. The damage was absurd before the signet change and might be still but it’s at least spread out some; now it’s a bit easier to counter and you have more time to pop a defensive. Thief damage is high because they lack the options some other classes have. You have to build to counter them if you are having problems, that’s how this game and system works.

How much toughness did you have? I mean, I play a support elementalist build with 2100 toughness and 14k hp and I had protection up and died alot faster then 1.5 sec…(rank 37) what’s your secret in surviving 1.5sec?

Here’s the main problem I see with this game from my point of view (I play an ele)

If a 100B warrior attacks me as long as I have a stun breaker, teleport, or mist form available I have a chance. If not, I die instantly.
If a thief attacks me if I do not have lightning attunement and shocking aura available, as well as every utility skill available, I die instantly.
If any other class attacks me and I have every single thing on cooldown, I still have a chance to win, or at least survive long enough for some help.

I highly doubt it took the thief 1.5s to do that damage to you. In reality, it was probably close to 0.5 seconds and even worse, all 3 of those attacks can be done while he is still invisible to you.

The only thing that could have countered that damage is a bot scanning the combat log.

Hopefully they fix this combo soon, because even with 2800 armor, I can be hit for 19k.

slacker.9352:

How much toughness did you have? I mean, I play a support elementalist build with 2100 toughness and 14k hp and I had protection up and died alot faster then 1.5 sec…(rank 37) what’s your secret in surviving 1.5sec?

Interesting. You play as toilet paper ? Because die for 1.5 seconds probably wants a lot of skills or inability in your case ?

BlueprintLFE.2358:

Here’s the thing.

The problem with thieves is now compounding and snowballing to a larger effect which is going to cause more problems and complaints.

The rendering issue – This is causing thieves to have WAY more of an advantage than hey should. When you are fighting a thief for 15 seconds (because you have played well and broke stun and have kept moving) and you continue to hear the thief hitting your toon with multiple auto attacks, and you cannot see the thief AT ALL for those 10 seconds this is a problem. I haven’t been able to physically see a thief while fighting them in SPVP in a long time.

Now combine the Rendering problem with this next issues
More players playing thieves – This issue combined with the rendering issue is compounding the thief problem greatly. Not only is a player dealing with attempting to fight constantly invisible (not being rendered) thieves, but now that there is anywhere from 5-10 thieves PER game this is causing MULTIPLE enemies to be invisible all the time.

This plus the fact that multiple players are now playing thieves, which means that stun break you had is going to save you once out of multiple basilisk venoms is completely frustrating to players, when you start getting in the realm of forcing players to take multiple stun breaks to survive one class then that is completely fringing on other classes ability to play how they want.

Last issue – NO MATTER how kitten good you play against a thief, if your stun breaker is on cool down, once they hit you with basilisk venom there is NOTHIG you can do but die, it is extremely frustrating to get hit with steal, basilisk venom and have your stun real on cool down knowing there is nothing you can do about it, then get downed

Now that being said I am not complaining about thieves, just that these issues are compounding causing more problems. Rendering NEEDS to be fixed, until then players are going to abuse it to being invisible 80-90% of fights.

Which is why when I see more than 3 Theives oin the other team I instantly change all my slots to Cantrips and spend 90% of the match kiting them…and hope my team has the senese to kill them while I do.

There is no reason thieves have to be so fragile and deal so much ridiculous damage. Give them more base hps, drop their damage. Force them to actually have to put some effort to drop someone down.

I still find it ironic that they pointedly called the class a thief not an assassin because, as they said, this game isn’t like others and this class is its own special thing and this game’s combat is about battle of wits and whatnot… yet that entire concept was thrown out the door as soon as launch came somewhat near and the class was turned into a full on assassin anyways…
Oh Anet…
Such the joker…

You’re such a bucket of kicks…
Metaphorically.
But it still hurts.
><

I feel your pain…. I’m spec’d into defense….

It’s incredible how people can defend something like that. In no way a character should be able to dump 20k damage in 1.5s (that’s 13.3k dps) while being relatively safe (since you just shadowstep with steal to do it….).

Shar.3402:

It’s incredible how people can defend something like that. In no way a character should be able to dump 20k damage in 1.5s (that’s 13.3k dps) while being relatively safe (since you just shadowstep with steal to do it….).

Only thing i seriously hate is mug applying venoms.
If it didn’t create this instant (and so unstoppable) stun break or die situation (mug->C&D->backstab for 20~k dmg) I’d be cool with it…
But it is…

Bull’s rush can be dodged, warriors can be kited, thieves…
So stupid.

I dislike backstab being such a truck of an attack that you can’t dodge, I dislike the #2 skill being a spammable leap + high dmg. But I can live with it, they can be coped with if you really really try. But the instagib spike…

offence.4726:

What`s your glory rank , judging by your Peacemaker greatsword i`d say your new to the pvp game. Practice your mesmer some more.

Yes, once you get better theif stops doing less dmg….

OP: I have seen that screen too many times in the past week. Only solution I have for you is to do what everyone else and their mother is doing: Bunker up!

One way to avoid seeing the death breakdown from the 3 skill instagib is roll an ele. The new mistform downed state damage overwrites all preceding damage on the death breakdown. All you see is Mistform 20k damage or whatever. As long as you don’ t check your combat log you can convince yourself that you were struck down by a sudden heart attack or bolt from above.

You can thus remain in blissful ignorance of being hit by this ludicrous combo.

I consider myself having good reflexes. Took about 19k hp in 1.5 sec.

You had 1.5 sec to press one button to negate half of that burst or all of it if you saw the thief coming and you call that good reaction time?

Time to read what your Illusionary Persona combined with Distortion does and rethink your move in that situation.

TehPenGu.6127:

offence.4726:

What`s your glory rank , judging by your Peacemaker greatsword i`d say your new to the pvp game. Practice your mesmer some more.

Yes, once you get better theif stops doing less dmg….

OP: I have seen that screen too many times in the past week. Only solution I have for you is to do what everyone else and their mother is doing: Bunker up!

Mesmer?
Your complaining and you play a mesmer???
You can shatter for distortion… that’s basically an out of spike free card built into your class…
Sword mainhand (that EEVERYONE is running) is another free 2s worth… if you have staff its a free stunbreak and teleport, every spec has phantasms that do solid dmg so all you really have to do is survive… maybe if he catches you with your pants down it can hurt but short of that… you are a mesmer for christs sakes.
lol.