Guild Wars 2

u might aswell just suggest to remove the thief class from the game with all the complains i see around.
its just funny to see ppl complaining and they are no more then pub players
sad but true keep it up im sure anet gonna listen to u eventually and thief will end up with only condition build.

Thief is just utterly broken when killing other glass cannons, its easy and it takes no skill. I don’t even play thief but i have one, 14k dmg in less than 10 games was my best hit. Hilarious, truly.

Evilek.5690:

slacker.9352:

How much toughness did you have? I mean, I play a support elementalist build with 2100 toughness and 14k hp and I had protection up and died alot faster then 1.5 sec…(rank 37) what’s your secret in surviving 1.5sec?

Interesting. You play as toilet paper ? Because die for 1.5 seconds probably wants a lot of skills or inability in your case ?

You don’t get it, do you? I run as ele with 2.5k armor (not a tank, but not fragile either), and I have around 16k hp, if I remember correctly (or is it 17 … at work atm). By the time basilisk venom was down to 10% hp and as good as dead. That is 1½ sec. That is unavoidable. The thief came out of the blue, I had clear vision from where he should come from, and it was not in WvW. Having 1½ sec to react is one thing, but this is just out of this world. And yes, I of course had a stunbreaker (even 2) but they were on cd, which is bound to happen with all the thieves running around … and I can deal fine with almost any other thing that comes my way without it as Scepter&Dagger-ele.

I usually find thieves fun to fight, but when things begin to be unavoidable and out of the blue … just where is the sense in it?

PS: wt .. can’t I write S / D anymore .. why did that get kittened?

Poxxia.1547:

Evilek.5690:

slacker.9352:

How much toughness did you have? I mean, I play a support elementalist build with 2100 toughness and 14k hp and I had protection up and died alot faster then 1.5 sec…(rank 37) what’s your secret in surviving 1.5sec?

Interesting. You play as toilet paper ? Because die for 1.5 seconds probably wants a lot of skills or inability in your case ?

You don’t get it, do you? I run as ele with 2.5k armor (not a tank, but not fragile either), and I have around 16k hp, if I remember correctly (or is it 17 … at work atm). By the time basilisk venom was down to 10% hp and as good as dead. That is 1½ sec. That is unavoidable. The thief came out of the blue, I had clear vision from where he should come from, and it was not in WvW. Having 1½ sec to react is one thing, but this is just out of this world. And yes, I of course had a stunbreaker (even 2) but they were on cd, which is bound to happen with all the thieves running around … and I can deal fine with almost any other thing that comes my way without it as Scepter&Dagger-ele.

I usually find thieves fun to fight, but when things begin to be unavoidable and out of the blue … just where is the sense in it?

PS: wt .. can’t I write S / D anymore .. why did that get kittened?

Where’s the point? That you do not have a CD on spells means of a class is too strong ?

Warrior charge you —> 2 sec knock down —> Frenzy —> 100b --→ if you do not CD on stun break = you are death.

Evilek.5690:

Poxxia.1547:

Evilek.5690:

slacker.9352:

How much toughness did you have? I mean, I play a support elementalist build with 2100 toughness and 14k hp and I had protection up and died alot faster then 1.5 sec…(rank 37) what’s your secret in surviving 1.5sec?

Interesting. You play as toilet paper ? Because die for 1.5 seconds probably wants a lot of skills or inability in your case ?

You don’t get it, do you? I run as ele with 2.5k armor (not a tank, but not fragile either), and I have around 16k hp, if I remember correctly (or is it 17 … at work atm). By the time basilisk venom was down to 10% hp and as good as dead. That is 1½ sec. That is unavoidable. The thief came out of the blue, I had clear vision from where he should come from, and it was not in WvW. Having 1½ sec to react is one thing, but this is just out of this world. And yes, I of course had a stunbreaker (even 2) but they were on cd, which is bound to happen with all the thieves running around … and I can deal fine with almost any other thing that comes my way without it as Scepter&Dagger-ele.

I usually find thieves fun to fight, but when things begin to be unavoidable and out of the blue … just where is the sense in it?

PS: wt .. can’t I write S / D anymore .. why did that get kittened?

Where’s the point? That you do not have a CD on spells means of a class is too strong ?

Warrior charge you —> 2 sec knock down --> Frenzy —> 100b ---> if you do not CD on stun break = you are death.

Warriors do not come out of the blue. I can avoid that fight entirely … or drag it until my cd is up. That is my point. I don’t even have to be an ele to do that. And stuff can be dodged if you see it coming. Warriors are fine, really … even with my cd’s down. No other class is like thieves in that way.

MarkedOne.1309:

For the fellow above me: you do realize that a great thief has a really low chance of killing a well-played ele, dont you?

Yep … and I am not great. But nor am I clueless … I played this specific build for 2 days now, so I have a LOT to learn (in fact I just came back to this char after taking a break on it, since I found staff-ele a bit boring). This only happened to me once, and I learned from it. That is not the topic however.

(I did say thieves were a “fun fight” … something could be written between the lines fyi )

I usually have no problems with thieves whatsoever unless they clearly are better players than me and are better at using things that have nothing to do with normal utility. That goes for both my previous main and this ele.

The problem is that a none glass cannon thief is a lot harder to play in melee and honestly is a part of the fail balance of classes ingame. When have you seen thiefs with high toughness ingame…. try one and see how you do. The high damage glass cannon builds (not talking about bleed builds) are wide spread because you have a quick success, otherwise the classs struggles with incomming damage even with high toughness build.

A class that are able to teleport to you in 900 range, instantly get out of your sight while taking away 30-40% of your hp, and finishes you off in less than 1.5 seconds is a bad game design, no matter what you have to say.

Seriously, stop defending this build. Something need to be done, asap.

Almost every aspect of thief has some issue. They stealth too often, they can evade too easily and their burst DPS is too high.

That’s why they are the most common class you see in sPvP and why all the people here defending them play this class instead of some other class.

Thiefs damage needs at least (!) a 30-40% nerf overall!

@Diva: You are joking, right?
Otherwise: Erhh … no idea how you come up with that number. It is not really a constructive approach. And 30-40% is just not viable … but if that is what you want, then sure?
I do find thieves to be a challenging aspect as well as a PITA … and that is how it should be isn’t it?

@Gareth
Except to shatter u need clones
Except u cant summon clones when u have no target
Except u are dead before summoning your clones
Except distortion last 1 to 3sec and do no dmg and u have no more illusions now
Except the thief will just re-stealth and re-apply burst attacks immediately
(my thief has 4 direct stealth sources, so I can fail and burst you 4x in a row… not even counting other skills, just autoattack/backstab)
Except that now the mesmer has all his defensives and shatter on cooldown

So yeah you can delay the unavoidable by a few seconds, but if the thief is not terribad, u die there.

Trying to justify that because of one broken class, all the other classes/players have to play full defensive to not die in 3 sec … Thats beyond stupidity.

As said so many times, the problem with thieves is not damage, the problem is because of broken game mechanics combined with some bug exploiting = unbalanced playfield.

So if Anet would fix a couple obvious gamebreaking bugs, then maybe we could play and see if things need adjustments.
At the moment, the game just revolve around exploiting bugs and game flaws to compensate other broken stuff…

Yeah somehow, its still rock/paper/scissor … lol ? ^^

D I V A.6018:

Thiefs damage needs at least (!) a 30-40% nerf overall!

I strongly disagree on this. The damage is not the one that need to be nerf, is the other stuff like trait/utility.

Beside, the fact that thieves don’t really have a lot of viable weapon set/build, is just making it worst. Meaning, tons of players will only go for the one trick phony build(backstab/hs spam/pw/unload+haste/unicorn build).

Remove mug damage, make CnD to be canceled if you use other skill before it finishes, buff up other builds etc.

A lot of things can be done, but nerfing thieves damage by 30-40%? No sir, it will kill the class. Same like those morons that keep on wanted thieves to be out of stealth when they receive damage. It is game breaking.

fact is: thieves were good for their PW. PW doesnt kill instant, PW gives you about 3 secs to react…you did whine , they nerfed it. but the people who likes playing thief have found another good build now and you want again nerfhammer on him.

i say: ok nerf backstab to death, give me back my old PW. and this time maybe, really, everyone, learn to play against thief.

Shukran.4851:

fact is: thieves were good for their PW. PW doesnt kill instant, PW gives you about 3 secs to react…you did whine , they nerfed it. but the people who likes playing thief have found another good build now and you want again nerfhammer on him.

i say: ok nerf backstab to death, give me back my old PW. and this time maybe, really, everyone, learn to play against thief.

PW was nerfed due to combining it with haste+the 4 sec immo trait=a sure kill. No one will be able to get away from that. The chain stun+immobalize for 4 sec is just too OP.

But the nerf that Anet did was so freaking stupid. The damage of PW is already suck, the main problem is the chain stun+haste+immobalize trait. People were asking of nerfing the haste, but what they did was nerfing the damage, which make PvE way harder for PW users.

Backstab is not fine. At. All. The combination of Basilisk>CnD>Steal>BS>Haste>HS>HS or A’sin signet>Basilisk>CnD>Steal>HS>HS are another complete 100% confirm kill. It was so stupid it is hard to avoid it, especially the one with haste. I do hope Anet make the right nerf this time, by that I mean not nerfing the damage but the other skill that make this backstab build an insta-gib.

Let me make it easier for you Anet, make sure CnD is canceled if you use other skill before the animation finishes.

I see a lot of people don’t understand the problem with thiefs.
When a thief tells me: "Just think of us to be an overall challenge. If we beat you, due to our superior 1v1 damage, it is probably because you are a terribad player, l2p.

…I just think of any reason why a thief going for glasscannon can beat similar skilled players rolling ele, engineer etc?

There are two things utterly broken with the thief’s class: Their burst damage and the fact they can stealth 4+ times in a fight.

It is as simple as this: If you are superior to a thief and survive his first and second attempt to “I win-button” you to death, he will simply vanish and laugh at you.
1. HARSHLY reduce their damage
2. For dwanya’s sake introduce a global cooldown for stealth (30 seconds+)
3. OIverhall their profession mechanic regarding initiative
4. Rethink their downed abilities.

Anet, pick two of the above.

DIVA

Your going to have to give thief something if you take something away.

If I was you, I would stick to the devil you know now, not make another devil you may be even more afraid of.

D I V A.6018:

I see a lot of people don’t understand the problem with thiefs.
When a thief tells me: "Just think of us to be an overall challenge. If we beat you, due to our superior 1v1 damage, it is probably because you are a terribad player, l2p.

…I just think of any reason why a thief going for glasscannon can beat similar skilled players rolling ele, engineer etc?

There are two things utterly broken with the thief’s class: Their burst damage and the fact they can stealth 4+ times in a fight.

It is as simple as this: If you are superior to a thief and survive his first and second attempt to “I win-button” you to death, he will simply vanish and laugh at you.
1. HARSHLY reduce their damage
2. For dwanya’s sake introduce a global cooldown for stealth (30 seconds+)
3. OIverhall their profession mechanic regarding initiative
4. Rethink their downed abilities.

Anet, pick two of the above.

DIVA

Thief cannot stealth 4+ times a fight unless he is not bursting you. If he is not bursting you, you got all chances to survive.
IF he is bursting you, he does not have 4x stealth only 1x which is his heal and he will not use that to attack will he ?
Innitiative cannot be overhauled with current weapeons as they are made for innitiative, 1-2 damage abilitys 3-4 utility skills helping to survive/make/close gaps. If you overhaul it thief will not be able to play, Your suggestion is tottaly remaking the whole class that is.
Downed state is ok Imo, the problem is downed state damage scale with stats so glass cannon thiefs obviously deal more damage when downed, teleporting lets them dish out more damage when downed then other classes. Otherwise no problems. I see warriors hiting me for 2k trow rock which aint ok too.

Buzzcrave.6197 : i understand it, but have u ever tryed to PW without haste to someone who knows what he is doing? you PW, he is stunned, then dodge = you hit maybe 1-2 times. where is the danger in it?
maybe if the #2 skill immobilize is longer (2.5-3secs), you can remove stun from PW making his dps faster. PW right now needs about 4 secs to do his full dps. put it to 2 secs max with no stun and add something else, like blind maybe. so thief can’t stunlock but can still use PW we loved so much.
just an idea.

Glass cannons getting gibbed by glass cannons. There is nothing new here, make a thicker build and kite thieves for hours.

Every match I go into, I see at LEAST 6 thieves. In a 16 player match. Thats almost 40%. This game has 8 classes.

Does this look like a healthy, balanced game to you? when close to half of the players in sPVP are playing thieves?

My condi trap ranger has 1860 toughness, close to 3k armour and 15k hp. I’m not a glass cannon. A thief can lock and drop me in ~ 2 seconds, or at least take away like 80% of my hp. NO other class can do this, the burst damage is abit too ridiculous. If I see the thief coming, its okay as I can protect myself with my traps. But when you run around a corner and a stealthed thief instantly downs you, it just feels very, very cheap. Another issue for me is they can vanish into stealth and finish me off while I’m downed—and theres nothing I can do about it. I cant send my pet after him to KD, I can’t interrupt his cast, I can’t bleed him and hope to bring him down along with me.

Mesmers are fun to play against (although a tad annoying, lol). So are guardians and warriors. Necros are hard to kill, but its still good and fun fights. Good elementalists are very challenging. Thieves…thieves just feel cheap.

Pyroatheist.9031:

The steal/cnd/backstab combo is a massive problem for sure. The damage on that combo needs to be nerfed such that it is no longer viable, because while thieves are about front-loaded damage, that sort of burst should not exist.

There’s the problem right there. It’s not a combo, it’s a bug. You can activate C&D before steal and steal will proc first, allowing you to C&D instantly and remove any chance for reaction….especially with B-Venom.

ANet doesn’t need to nerf anything, guys, they need to fix Steal so it queues up like a normal skill instead of just working on a different timer altogether. This would allow everyone a full second or so of reaction time between steal and the crazy backstab combo hit.

I don’t know why it currently works like this but I can only assume they overlooked it’s functionality. Hopefully we will see a fix instead of a pointless nerf…..with a fix later anyway :-P

All they need to do is make Cloak and Daggers animation 40% faster.

Judas.5432:

Pyroatheist.9031:

The steal/cnd/backstab combo is a massive problem for sure. The damage on that combo needs to be nerfed such that it is no longer viable, because while thieves are about front-loaded damage, that sort of burst should not exist.

There’s the problem right there. It’s not a combo, it’s a bug. You can activate C&D before steal and steal will proc first, allowing you to C&D instantly and remove any chance for reaction….especially with B-Venom.

ANet doesn’t need to nerf anything, guys, they need to fix Steal so it queues up like a normal skill instead of just working on a different timer altogether. This would allow everyone a full second or so of reaction time between steal and the crazy backstab combo hit.

I don’t know why it currently works like this but I can only assume they overlooked it’s functionality. Hopefully we will see a fix instead of a pointless nerf…..with a fix later anyway :-P

Wonder if the complaining would continue if made the change to steal and the BS combo became Basilisk Venom+Assassin Signet+Hidden Thief Mug+Backstab.

Comatoast.6921:

Glass cannons getting gibbed by glass cannons. There is nothing new here, make a thicker build and kite thieves for hours.

i think the problem here is this. why is it you think thieves deserve this special place as the only class worthy of a glass cannon build. i see this countered in everything. for every other class thieves just tell you to tank up… sorry but more then 1/8 of the classes deserve to have glass cannon builds that work and allow survivability to kill. not just the ability to be thief gib magnets…

that said just fix the rendering bug or make stealth a more valid opener instead of a fight long mechanic. problem fixed. i dont think people care they die to thieves. i think people care that half the fight vs a thief is against an invisible target through a mix of intended stealth chains and unintended rendering bugs.

The problem is that a none glass cannon thief is a lot harder to play in melee and honestly is a part of the fail balance of classes ingame. When have you seen thiefs with high toughness ingame…. try one and see how you do. The high damage glass cannon builds (not talking about bleed builds) are wide spread because you have a quick success, otherwise the classs struggles with incomming damage even with high toughness build.

I play a Toughness / Healing Power / Power build and I don’t die to glass cannon BS thieves or HB warrior (and that’s with 13k HP). In fact,I kill them if they pick up the fight long enough for me to take their hp slowly. Additionally, I can kill the creatures in Forest solo and even the Lord and his troops. 2×1 aint a problem either.I’d say that’s one the the strongest builds thieves have but for some reason,people just run backstabbie all day. The only problem is that I don’t kill any bunker / builds with some amount of toughness…

monepipi.5160:

Every match I go into, I see at LEAST 6 thieves. In a 16 player match. Thats almost 40%. This game has 8 classes.

Does this look like a healthy, balanced game to you? when close to half of the players in sPVP are playing thieves?

My condi trap ranger has 1860 toughness, close to 3k armour and 15k hp. I’m not a glass cannon. A thief can lock and drop me in ~ 2 seconds, or at least take away like 80% of my hp. NO other class can do this, the burst damage is abit too ridiculous. If I see the thief coming, its okay as I can protect myself with my traps. But when you run around a corner and a stealthed thief instantly downs you, it just feels very, very cheap. Another issue for me is they can vanish into stealth and finish me off while I’m downed—and theres nothing I can do about it. I cant send my pet after him to KD, I can’t interrupt his cast, I can’t bleed him and hope to bring him down along with me.

Mesmers are fun to play against (although a tad annoying, lol). So are guardians and warriors. Necros are hard to kill, but its still good and fun fights. Good elementalists are very challenging. Thieves…thieves just feel cheap.

Seroiusly learn to play Ranger. Ranger is the biggest bane of thiefs. I dont even need to dodge. I just put down traps switch to S/T drop down more fire and tank them.

Its so fun seeing thiefs blowing up themselfs while I tank all their damage. I dont even have defensive ultitlies just 3 traps and entangle.

Shukran.4851:

Buzzcrave.6197 : i understand it, but have u ever tryed to PW without haste to someone who knows what he is doing? you PW, he is stunned, then dodge = you hit maybe 1-2 times. where is the danger in it?
maybe if the #2 skill immobilize is longer (2.5-3secs), you can remove stun from PW making his dps faster. PW right now needs about 4 secs to do his full dps. put it to 2 secs max with no stun and add something else, like blind maybe. so thief can’t stunlock but can still use PW we loved so much.
just an idea.

You dont even need dodge against haste pw to dodge it. You can walk out of it since stun is only .5 seconds.

I’m gonna post 20k 100b warrior bursts to show how balanced is warrior. More survibility then theifs, more damage, more ulity, better roaming speed.

ilJumperMT.4871:

I’m gonna post 20k 100b warrior bursts to show how balanced is warrior. More survibility then theifs, more damage, more ulity, better roaming speed.

finally! someone who understood warrior>thief as utility for the team.

…and have to say…actually moa is the best istant kill in the whole pvp…even better than HB…and it doesn’t need traits, glass cannon build or anything…you can kill bunkers also with that…POOF you are a useless bird….POOF you are dead…

And for mesmers around stop saying it’s a “survival” skill…mesmers actually use moa 100% of the times vs bunkers and facing someone 1vs1 then kill without problems in the 10 secs you are running around literally like a chicken…..but yeah right, millions clones, phantasms dealing as much dmg as a normal player, stealth just like thief, stuns, confusion, aoe burst and so on…plus portal (Abused at treb and wvsw as usual) and moa are clearly not enough to counter a thief with 14k hp max and cardboard armor….l2p guys…srsly

ilJumperMT.4871:

I dont even need to dodge. I just put down traps switch to S/T drop down more fire and tank them.

Its so fun seeing thiefs blowing up themselfs while I tank all their damage. I dont even have defensive ultitlies just 3 traps and entangle.

No “Protect Me”? No dodge? able to eat the entirety of a thief’s burst chain? I’m sorry, but I dont buy that. He will kill you before your traps kill him. Maybe you’ve played against a lousy thief. Condition damage needs time to burn through HP, you have to drag the fight out a bit. Traps ranger is the only build rangers have that works against thieves though. Yes, its funny when they think our traps don’t hurt.

But, why is it that every match has 6 or more thieves? Something has to be broke for numbers to be so skewed. Its not a healthy sign when half of the players in a map are playing the same class.

@ archaon, its obvious youve never played a mesmer otherwise youd know how easy is to counter every clone, phantasm and image i could possibly conjure up…..(hint: it has to do with stealthing and leaving me targetless, ill let you figure it out)

and obvious you also play a thief , we get it, no one likes his 3 button pwn machine nerfed , ohterwise how would all the pvping thiefs watch netflix while they play ?

actually i’m glad they nerfed PW and HS also never used haste cause i need some better survival utility…and i was the first complaining about too long stealth duration from refuge…and i played mesmer also for a bit (To understand how it works and how to counter), and it’s better than thief….under all aspects….for sure a bad mesmer loses vs a good thief (And i’m not talkin’ about HS spammers…they are just ridicolous to shut down) but a good mesmer will NEVER lose vs a thief…good or not if both with full hp and no cd

The real problem are noobs who actually search with google “Best pvp build” they copy it and think they will rock the party……then they get owned by someone and go cry on the forum…there aren’t BEST pvp build around, face it….and there aren’t better classes….only better players

Starting pvp you may think (I did long time ago in first gw1 HA runs) that someone is really op….but after playing and making experience in the game at one point you realize that the problem was you that sucked not someone else being op..

Judas.5432:

Pyroatheist.9031:

The steal/cnd/backstab combo is a massive problem for sure. The damage on that combo needs to be nerfed such that it is no longer viable, because while thieves are about front-loaded damage, that sort of burst should not exist.

There’s the problem right there. It’s not a combo, it’s a bug. You can activate C&D before steal and steal will proc first, allowing you to C&D instantly and remove any chance for reaction….especially with B-Venom.

ANet doesn’t need to nerf anything, guys, they need to fix Steal so it queues up like a normal skill instead of just working on a different timer altogether. This would allow everyone a full second or so of reaction time between steal and the crazy backstab combo hit.

I don’t know why it currently works like this but I can only assume they overlooked it’s functionality. Hopefully we will see a fix instead of a pointless nerf…..with a fix later anyway :-P

I think this guy might be on to something. I was noticing this very thing today. Insta dead. Look at the combat log and was like… WHA!? Something’s fishy here!

Personally, I don’t see much of a problem with thief damage, but I do think that stealth needs a rework. As GW1 vets will know, the thief is based on the GW1 assassin class which had similar skills and could very well kill light armored classes in a matter of seconds if they set up their combo correctly. The difference is that in GW1 assassins did not have stealth and instead relied heavily on positioning and shadow stepping to take out opponents. Now if a thief didn’t have stealth, players would be able to predict when they are going to attack and from what angle, and with a few well timed dodges would most likely be able to avoid 99% of their burst damage. I think there either needs to be some type of stealth detection skills in the game, or thieves still need to be detectable in some indirect manner when they stealth (like the little light distortion that cloaked units in Starcraft make). For the record I play a guardian, so take my opinion as you will.

Btw my main char is guardian too…and usually i can hear another thief coming in 1vs1….can’t remember last time a thief landed a full BS combo on me, usually hearing it i have time to pop some def or just turn around and take dmg in front of me instead on my back…and only this barely halves BS dmg

If you guys are talkin’ about getting BStabbed in your back during a multiple fight with maybe half hp….well that’s thief role, as it was in GW1… In GW1 some assassin’s combos were made to kill target in less than 4 secs…and GW1 was far less meant to be a oneshot game or 1vs1 so….

http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Assassin's_Promise Remember anyone? If you see it…kite

Waffler.1257:

Personally, I don’t see much of a problem with thief damage, but I do think that stealth needs a rework. As GW1 vets will know, the thief is based on the GW1 assassin class which had similar skills and could very well kill light armored classes in a matter of seconds if they set up their combo correctly. The difference is that in GW1 assassins did not have stealth and instead relied heavily on positioning and shadow stepping to take out opponents. Now if a thief didn’t have stealth, players would be able to predict when they are going to attack and from what angle, and with a few well timed dodges would most likely be able to avoid 99% of their burst damage. I think there either needs to be some type of stealth detection skills in the game, or thieves still need to be detectable in some indirect manner when they stealth (like the little light distortion that cloaked units in Starcraft make). For the record I play a guardian, so take my opinion as you will.

Dunno about that making stealth always minutely visible. In my experience, making stealth slightly visible is all it takes to make ineffective who’s not completely tunnel visioned. In Lost Saga, the hero Shadow Assassin has a stealth ablility that leaves him visible on the minimap and had him still kick up dust clouds when he jumped. This caused most of the players to abandon Sin, save for the players looking for a challenging main or to goof off. As it stands in the game now, stealth is only effective on extremely tunnel visioned players. Another game would be Halo, no one really got the drop on me with the cloak in that.

I’m not opposed to skills that cause burning or skills that spray substances (like glue shot) making them visible for say half a second. Or they could just add a bright flash to Assassin Signet’s telegraph that shows up even with stealth. Be like the flash before the thunder.

Dual.8953:

Waffler.1257:

Personally, I don’t see much of a problem with thief damage, but I do think that stealth needs a rework. As GW1 vets will know, the thief is based on the GW1 assassin class which had similar skills and could very well kill light armored classes in a matter of seconds if they set up their combo correctly. The difference is that in GW1 assassins did not have stealth and instead relied heavily on positioning and shadow stepping to take out opponents. Now if a thief didn’t have stealth, players would be able to predict when they are going to attack and from what angle, and with a few well timed dodges would most likely be able to avoid 99% of their burst damage. I think there either needs to be some type of stealth detection skills in the game, or thieves still need to be detectable in some indirect manner when they stealth (like the little light distortion that cloaked units in Starcraft make). For the record I play a guardian, so take my opinion as you will.

Dunno about that making stealth always minutely visible. In my experience, making stealth slightly visible is all it takes to make ineffective who’s not completely tunnel visioned. In Lost Saga, the hero Shadow Assassin has a stealth ablility that leaves him visible on the minimap and had him still kick up dust clouds when he jumped. This caused most of the players to abandon Sin, save for the players looking for a challenging main or to goof off. As it stands in the game now, stealth is only effective on extremely tunnel visioned players. Another game would be Halo, no one really got the drop on me with the cloak in that.

I’m not opposed to skills that cause burning or skills that spray substances (like glue shot) making them visible for say half a second. Or they could just add a bright flash to Assassin Signet’s telegraph that shows up even with stealth. Be like the flash before the thunder.

Yeah, I know what you mean about the partially visible thing but at the moment if I’m capping or holding a point and I see a thief running at me and then go stealth my best chance of survival is to simply strafe, dodge, and auto-attack the air all over the inside of that node. But for all I know the thief could just be sitting there laughing their kitten off as I run around the node dodging and attacking like an idiot. If Anet wants GW2 to be e-sports worthy, there should be a counter to every mechanic that doesn’t rely on dumb luck.

There is no dumb luck with a thief stealthing to open on you. Only you not knowing what ability he used, how long his stealth lasts, what to do in that situation, and what he is capable of.

The burst a thief puts out is no faster than the burst you took in WotLK arenas. You have two globals before you die. Use them properly and you live. In fact, it’s easier to survive because of the dodge mechanic in this game and how you don’t have to eat the damage or use an immunity to stop the incoming initial burst.

@monepipi.5160

Yes if you run a trapper ranger you have no slot for utilities, though you dont need them.

I run with 2k toughness, also Shortsword is best defensive “utility” you can use if you learn to use it

The problem is that a none glass cannon thief is a lot harder to play in melee and honestly is a part of the fail balance of classes ingame. When have you seen thiefs with high toughness ingame…. try one and see how you do. The high damage glass cannon builds (not talking about bleed builds) are wide spread because you have a quick success, otherwise the classs struggles with incomming damage even with high toughness build.

Agreed. If you could make a more balanced build or a tanky build, people wouldn’t be playing glass cannon so much on Thief. The problem is, those type of builds on Thief don’t work very well. I have tested countless balanced and tanky builds and the difference between a tanky build for most other classes in the game and a Thief is laughable. Let’s not forget that my Warrior can do more sustained DPS than a Thief even when speced as a balanced build. The thing that makes Thief a little stronger for small scale PvP? It isn’t damage, although the interrupting abilities with steal needs to go. It is their ability to leave a fight if they choose to. This is why people hate stealthers in every game. Picking and choosing their battles.

I built my ranger around theives, fought a theif the other day in a BG and won. While I was trying to stomp the theif that tried to gank me, two other thieves backstabbed me to downed and stomped me lmfao.

At this point I laughed and said ok enough of guild wars 2.

I never played an MMO with this many theives, and that’s a bold statement.

This funny thead still goes on , people should start actually pvping ( tpvp , paid , group up , team up ) and stop crying about the hotjoin balance where everyday you see 10 warriors , 10 thiefs and 10 mesmers on each side.

Backstab can easily be countered with damage mitigation, distance gaining utilities, stun breaks(regarding venom) and more. Yes, sometimes your cds are not up, but that’s how it goes. When did people forget that sometimes in pvp you are uneven footing due to other situation s? The real truth of the matter is that even if this particular build gears nerfed, another will come that people will say needs nerfed. The average player first assumes the game is unfair before they will admit they need to learn more.

Yes, but hopefully that next OP build doesn’t can’t do its whole chain in 1/2 a second.

Are you saying that serpent strike and hornet sting save you from theives with 2k toughness HAHAHAHA thanks bro haven’t laughed like that in years. Tell me how that works agianst a theif who has played the class for more than an hour.

Actually, a good melee ranger can destroy a Thief. I never met a Thief or Warrior who could kill my melee ranger. He was S/D A/T with traps and protect me.

Navzar.2938:

Yes, but hopefully that next OP build doesn’t can’t do its whole chain in 1/2 a second.

A particular class that utilizes player awareness, and high, fast damage isn’t a new thing. Why are we acting like it is? If you avoid that 2-3 second burst tor average thief is an easy kill. A good thief can still put up a fight, though.

Oh thieves…what a lot of bs.

You have the ability to dissapear+do damage at will using c+d on basically 0 cooldown (oh no..it’s so SO hard to get initiative back, please tell me how difficult it is…).

So you risk absolutely nothing in a fight. I just watched a thief video of him spamming button 1 for his pistol and c+d inbetween as soon as he was targetted, then back to button 1 on his pistol and killing multiples in WvW. He honestly used 2 buttons the entire video.

Tell me again how hard it is being a thief….

No.

I’m making an analogy to the reaction time needed to succeed. You say 1/2 a second is too short. It needs to be longer. You can’t react.

Scripted PvE events in another game require multiple people to react within half a second or your entire team fails.

If you think half a second is too short, then your reaction time is too slow. Improve upon it.

2-3 seconds is okish, that means you can respond. 1/2 is not ok. And yeah its not new, what makes you think I’m treating it like that? But guess what, that huge burst is usually nerfed, like you said, this isn’t new, and that’s how high burst is usually dealt with. My point is that while there will always be OP builds, hopefully they’ll at least give people some time to react.

Daays.4317:

Scripted PvE events in another game require multiple people to react within half a second or your entire team fails.

Trying playing PvE. Guess what? Its incredibly predictable. You know it’s going to happen,where it’ll happen, what direction it comes from and what’s going to do it and it’ll happen the exact same way each time. Besides, .5sec changing the whole party is incredibly unlikely, and if it does occur, its probably in some high end dungeon. Which means countless guides will exists for it, so you’ll know exactly how to react. Besides, bosses usually have some sort of visual cue telling you its about to happen.
Guess what doesn’t have that? Shadowstepping.

Lol. Half a second is too fast to respond. Are you serious?

http://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime/stats.php

Average human reaction time, 0.215 seconds.

And you want 2 seconds? Are you honestly 10x slower than the average human?

Even when factoring in a half-second delay for lag, the average person would be able to respond in time to live.