Guild Wars 2

Daays.4317:

Except you know it’s coming.

First off, you can’t steal + c&d + bs from stealth. It’s not possible.
Second, the thief will apply basilisk venom before going in. It has a 1 second cast time. He gets a venom buff. You know it’s coming.

If the thief buffs himself from stealth, waits out stealth, then goes in, then you should be counting. If he healed to get the stealth buff, then count to 3. If he SR, then count to 10.

You being completely oblivious to how other class mechanics work doesn’t help. You not having a game plan for when being engaged by a thief doesn’t help.

Should educate yourself on other class abilities. And if you can’t react in time, design a spec that has access to protection so you cannot get killed in the opener.

Every post you make has at least one insult included. Staying classy, I see. Any chance we can have a discussion without this childish and petty jabbing?

Your entire post is predicated on the assumption that you see the thief before they open on you. Theoretically, that should happen pretty often. Realistically, it doesn’t. There are a lot of reasons why… FoV, Camera Distance, Terrain, previous stealth (yes, I know all about the very slight cooldown between stealths), and any other number of issues.

“killed in the opener”

I think that is the problem, right there. I have no issues with big burst, or stealth, or Thieves being designed around being elusive, or the super high mobility. I like all of those things, and I like that thieves in general are exceptional 1v1 fighters.

Being killed in the OPENING 0.5 seconds of a fight, however, seems unnecessary. Do thieves NEED that to be competitive? If so, then they need buffs somewhere else and nerfs on this massive opening burst.

Let’s not make this about calling people bad, or noobs, or telling them to build their entire character around thieves or alternatively save all of their utilities for thieves. There is no other profession in the game that requires the same level of consideration when preparing a build. Surely you know that.

I LOVE stealth classes. I always have. I would hate seeing thieves turned into watered-down warriors. And yet, I still feel like this initial opening burst is not conducive to good PvP.

So you mean someone is using game mechanics and terrain to their advantage? Shocking! How dare they! If only you could use it back…

Did you know you can’t steal up Z-Axis? You can’t steal through objects as well. You won’t be teleported to the target, but will still do damage is traited for mug. Which means that opening burst and gap closer failed and gives the other player an advantage.

You don’t see the 2x edge in putting all your eggs in one basket. If a backstab thief wants to kill someone in an opener, then they have to commit to it 100%. If they fail to land it, then they will lose. There are plenty of ways to counter it, from protection, to dodging, to terrain usage, to proper skill usage.

This entire post is about a bad player saying he can’t react in 1.5seconds, but claims he has quick reflexes. It’s a whine thread. And then other people agreeing and saying no one can react to that and need at least 2 seconds minimum.

Yet I can guarantee you not one of them knows how steal functions. How venoms function. How stealth functions.

Instead, they go against a glass cannon they know nothing about, die, and make a whine thread.

I personally play my thief with no stunbreaks. I rely on being able to dodge openers and incoming stuns. I win all of my 1v1’s against other thiefs. I win the majority of my 1v1’s against other thiefs when I play my ele, my warrior, my necro, and my guardian. I win because I know how the class works. The limitations. The damage & survivability potential of the class.

Should educate yourself on how classes work and find a way around it.

But don’t worry. A change is coming. Already been announced. And I fully expect it to mimmick the changes made to pistol whip. Nerfing the damage instead of what really causes the issue.

Daays.4317:

So you mean someone is using game mechanics and terrain to their advantage? Shocking! How dare they! If only you could use it back…

Did you know you can’t steal up Z-Axis? You can’t steal through objects as well. You won’t be teleported to the target, but will still do damage is traited for mug. Which means that opening burst and gap closer failed and gives the other player an advantage.

You don’t see the 2x edge in putting all your eggs in one basket. If a backstab thief wants to kill someone in an opener, then they have to commit to it 100%. If they fail to land it, then they will lose. There are plenty of ways to counter it, from protection, to dodging, to terrain usage, to proper skill usage.

This entire post is about a bad player saying he can’t react in 1.5seconds, but claims he has quick reflexes. It’s a whine thread. And then other people agreeing and saying no one can react to that and need at least 2 seconds minimum.

Yet I can guarantee you not one of them knows how steal functions. How venoms function. How stealth functions.

Instead, they go against a glass cannon they know nothing about, die, and make a whine thread.

I personally play my thief with no stunbreaks. I rely on being able to dodge openers and incoming stuns. I win all of my 1v1’s against other thiefs. I win the majority of my 1v1’s against other thiefs when I play my ele, my warrior, my necro, and my guardian. I win because I know how the class works. The limitations. The damage & survivability potential of the class.

Should educate yourself on how classes work and find a way around it.

I can agree with you that there are ways to get away from it. That’s indisputable.

“If they fail to land it, then they will lose.”

This is not currently true. If this was true, it would still be a bad thing.

I want to see thieves in tPvP more often, and sPvP less often. Right now the thief profession is lacking for real competitive PvP, and is leaning on this crutch for sPvP.

I personally don’t like to play glass cannon builds, and I also mostly win in 1v1 with thieves. This thread isn’t about ME, and I will grant you that there are a LOT of people who whine instead of thinking and improving.

I don’t think the situation is a good one. In a 1v1, thieves have a massive advantage with the initial fatal burst followed by the best (debatable?) mobility and escape skills in the game. When this is scaled up to 2v2 or 5v5 or god forbid 8v8, thieves are gods among men. ESPECIALLY if you have 2 or 3 who mark a target, and then kill it, moving on to the next.

So, what is the downside? For one – conditions. These types of thieves aren’t very good with conditions. Secondly, they are fragile IF they get caught. But thieves who have this level of burst do not lack escape skills and control skills.

Offense – best burst in the game.
Defense – best mobility and escapes in the game.

Think about it like this, though.

Imagine every profession has a “budget” for which to design it’s capabilities within.
The current state of thief burst must eat a huge part of that budget, and thus it is unlikely they will get any adjustments in other areas until it is dealt with.

The current situation is not good for thieves, or PvP in general. This isn’t the only issue in PvP, but it certainly is an issue. This ability shouldn’t be removed (I even like C&D + Steal the way it works), but it should be toned down just a bit.

The kind of change I personally would like to see (and this is a half formed thought), would be to tone down the direct damage of backstab and give it some other additional effect, such as maybe a big stack of vulnerability or something.

Meh, break another specc for thiefs >_>

As thief you can’t land CnD reliable without steal in teamfights. You are very squishy and standing in melee range to land CnD is deadly. I would like to see a burst reduction (Steal → CnD not doable) and a rework on some double dagger skills. Seriously, number 3 is completely useless to the playstyle of double dagger. Yes, you can go a heavy condition based specc and spam 3 all day and kill stuff. But this is boring and should be removed from the game in my opinion.

So my idea is to nerf heartseeker strike (nerf the gap closer on it) and rework number 3 to a gapcloser + short root/stun with low damage. All skills on double dagger would work well together and create a fun and strong gameplay.

But if A-net nerfs this without compensation, what do we have left? Condition Pistol/Dagger, which is probably the strongest thief specc overall, so it will get nerfed too T_T

Teabaker.9524:

Meh, break another specc for thiefs >_>

As thief you can’t land CnD reliable without steal in teamfights. You are very squishy and standing in melee range to land CnD is deadly >_> I would like to see a burst reduction (Steal -> CnD not doable) and a rework on double dagger. Seriously, number 3 is completely useless to the playstyle of double dagger. I mean, yes, you can go a heavy condition based specc and spam 3 all day and kill stuff. But this is boring and could get removed from the game in my opinion.

So my idea is to nerf heartseeker strike (nerf the gap closer on it) and rework number 3 to a gapcloser + short root/stun with low damage. All skills on double dagger would work well together and create a fun and strong gameplay.

But if A-net nerfs this without compensation, what do we have left? Condition Pistol/Dagger, which is probably the strongest thief specc overall >->

They said in the Thief forum they were looking at nerfing the burst and compensating elsewhere. Nothing solid, of course, but I think they understand this and want to expand the number of viable thief builds.

The kind of change I personally would like to see (and this is a half formed thought), would be to tone down the direct damage of backstab and give it some other additional effect, such as maybe a big stack of vulnerability or something.

Umm, no. If anything needs to be nerfed it is the combo of cloak and dagger interrupting steal and teleporting you to your target to land the cloak and dagger followed by an instant backstab. If you nerf backstab itself, you ruin it for more than just hardcore backstab specs. Basically you will force any Thief that wants to use Backstab more into glass cannon builds. This would not be taking the class in the right direction. What needs to be nerfed is all that damage happening at once, and that is really only possible because of teleport skills (steal) interrupting other skills such as cloak and dagger.

If steal didn’t interrupt and teleport you mid C&D, any Thief that wanted to BS after a fast teleport in would need to spec 2 seconds stealth on steal which means they need to be at least 20 in Shadow Arts (toughness line). The thing that makes that good is going into the toughness line brings down DPS in itself, but you also wouldn’t be able to follow it with a C&D because you would be immune. Best you could do would be Steal.. wait for stealth expiration, wait for stealth debuff, C&D, Backstab. This is good in a few ways. The chain does less damage, the target was notified when you stole from him thanks to mug (not taking it would lower DPS too much), and the full chain takes about 7 seconds vs 2.

@Sky

You say thieves are gods among men when scaled upwards, yet you also claim theyre not competitive for tPvP? That’s not possible. No god class would be terrible in tPvP.

I have 11 QP out of 18 tourny games played so far. All our loses have to do with strat calling or being outplayed. Has nothing to do with thief being viable or not. The class isn’t terrible like the Ranger.

And why do people keep saying the thief has the best mobility? Dagger offhand ele’s take that prize.

The problem with backstab, and I’ve been saying this since day 1, is that it doesn’t follow game design. All other skills have cooldowns. If you miss, it goes on cooldown. All thief skills require init. If you miss, you still waste init.

Backstab has no init, because it requires stealth, but can be spammed. Meaning dodging/blocking/blinding does nothing against it. This is why it’s easy to land the killer burst combo. Not because it does too much damage. A shatter mesmer does as much damage as a thief, but in AoE, but they’re not broken because they follow the limitations placed in the game. Same with a 100b warrior.

Right now backstab is akin to a mesmer shattering a blocking target, their mindwrack staying off CD, and their illusions staying alive, allowing them to spam mindwrack until finally it lands.

Fix that and you fix that killer burst combo of thieves. Nerf the damage and you make the same mistake made with Pistol Whip.

@ Ashanor & Daays,

These were two really good posts. Thank you both for elevating the discussion.

I agree that your proposal may be better than mine, Ashanor. Again, I was only thinking out loud there.

Daays, I say that thieves might have the best mobility because I am looking at the entire package, both in and out of combat. Again, this is debatable because there are so many factors and metrics possible that we would have to carefully frame the discussion in order to come up with a real winner. Your analysis here is also astute on the backstab situation. It may very well be due to what you’re saying – but I’m not sure that would change the opener being potentially fatal with very little risk involved.

All in all, I am glad to see you recognize that there is something amiss with the situation. Many opinions, complaints, theories, tactics, and possible solutions can be discussed – but only ANet can decide what is best.

If you say that "The monk is having arcane corundum cast on him, which if memory serves me right slows down spells. "

You have to refresh your memory ^^ With arcane corundum it makes him cast at o.5 instead of pretty istant, and if you notice the monk doesn’t cast at precise time, he cast random so he’s not waiting for it coming…well sure he’s waiting because he knows the monk is going to cast someting…like averyone knows a thief that is coming to you is going to do something….or everyone here thinks that actually thieves can attack from miles away or from nowere?

So that mesmer rupts are not fair cause monk has corundum on…mez knows they are coming, it’s not during real pvp and so on…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuE-UE_Oe8M

so what about this? With ranger…and just for you to know pd is istant but ranger rupts are not due to the arrow flying time, in fact the ranger had to come as close as possible to the monk….what’s you excuse here? That good thieves actually use map’s objects to hide? So let’s nerf maps also…make all maps just a plain texture so avery noob can spot the thief from miles and probably…be killed anyway

Archaon.6245:

So that mesmer rupts are not fair cause monk has corundum on…mez knows they are coming, it’s not during real pvp and so on…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuE-UE_Oe8M

so what about this? In a real situation vs a real opponent and with ranger…and just for you to know pd is istant but ranger rupts are not due to the arrow flying time, in fact the ranger had to come as close as possible to the monk….what’s you excuse here?

Yeah… so, a couple things.

1) Even the comments on that video point out that it is staged and impractical.
2) Quite a few of those were not 0.5 second casts.
3) In the time it takes for 1 instant cast interrupt on a 1 second cast, you would already be dead.
4) Disregarding ALL of that, the title of the video is “best ranger in the game” which implies that this “ability” is very rare among PvP players.
5) And once again… comparing the speed of interrupts on spell casts to a teleport/stealth/venom/burst for 70-100% of your life is disingenuous.

These videos don’t help your argument.

PD in gvg woh, guardian then rc in less than 7 seconds. Right at the start. The ability to hit things is not what you are looking for not even how fast, but your ability to persistently hit key skills and hit what needs to be rupted at the right time is what makes a good rupter good it’s his decisions not his reflexes. You don’t go for very offensive rupts on monks when your team is heavily pressured, that doesn’t even make sense there is only one exception and I could go on and on on this topic but I will leave it at that.

To all the thieves saying ‘get some toughness’ I run an ele build with soldiers amulet and runes of divinity. I have 18.5k hp and a lot of toughness but I do get 70% + of my hp taken down in a single backstab. When I see a thief stealth I try to throw up defences, dodge, all of that stuff but there are times where they can take you by surprise regardless. (Running up to treb, teamfights etc)

Please stop defending this clearly broken damage because it’s ruining the PvP experience for a lot of people myself included.

Stickyrolls.3128:

Man reading this thread makes me realize what has been true for every game ever: The goods are playing the bads are posting. Most of you talk kitten like you know what you are talking about, you theory craft each other into nothing when in truth the only thing that matters is play. I bet most of you are hot join noobs and yet you talk is if you know something.

Now, if that’s no ironic, I don’t know. Sweeping statements and generalizations make you look pretty much what you accuse others of. Oh and btw…you also posted.

thiefs realy make spvp sometimes kitteny, if you have a realy good thief in the enemy group he can 2v1 or even 3v1 you on YOUR point!

Waggle.8209:

To all the thieves saying ‘get some toughness’ I run an ele build with soldiers amulet and runes of divinity. I have 18.5k hp and a lot of toughness but I do get 70% + of my hp taken down in a single backstab. When I see a thief stealth I try to throw up defences, dodge, all of that stuff but there are times where they can take you by surprise regardless. (Running up to treb, teamfights etc)

Please stop defending this clearly broken damage because it’s ruining the PvP experience for a lot of people myself included.

As an ele you have plenty of ways to recover too.

I play guardian main with ele and necro all being at almost 2k Toughness and 20k Vitality or more and I get hit by not just thieves over 10k but warriors have killshoted / Eviscerated me for more. Not only that but Mesmers running shatter combos (Xee’s) build have blown me up in no time too. I would say thieves and warriors have the best single target dps skills and are ment to. Other classes can be just as nasty but do fairly less single target and a bit more area dmg. I would not call thieves or warriors broken.. they take a risk running glass cannon. Personally with high toughness and vitality I never have a problem even being burst in that fashion, unless there are more than one attacking at a time. To the OP, you are clearly running a glass cannon.

As an ele you have plenty of ways to recover too.

Esp ele.. when I see a thief (which you can easily see if you keep your eyes open..) I just pop Shocking Arua, Mist Form or Armor of Earth and laugh while the thief either runs or dies.. Thieves can not approach you in stealth and get big burst due to the cd of stealth. They have to Cloak and Dagger, Steal then Back stab. You have more than enough time to counter even that granting you are not running glass cannon and do not have the proper skills.. If you want to run a glass cannon burst build, do not cry when you get downed by other glass cannon burst builds in seconds.

I guess you can kill them in 3 seconds too.

Daays.4317:

Sky.9347:

Daays.4317:

No.

I’m making an analogy to the reaction time needed to succeed. You say 1/2 a second is too short. It needs to be longer. You can’t react.

Scripted PvE events in another game require multiple people to react within half a second or your entire team fails.

If you think half a second is too short, then your reaction time is too slow. Improve upon it.

There is a major difference between scripted events, and PvP.

If you don’t understand that, then there is nothing anyone can say that will change your mind.

There’s nothing I can say to change yours. You failed to draw that same conclusion that Blizzard designed a PvE raid encounter around a 0.5sec interrupt rotation across multiple people. It was designed to be beaten. You could react fast enough.

Yet I’m being told half a second is too fast when the average human takes 0.215 seconds to react to something.

Not only is half a second too fast though, I was told that it should be increased to 2-3seconds.

Over 10x the reaction time of an average person.

So since it takes a couple of days to fully change someone’s mind, I’ll see you in 20. Maybe then you’ll see how ridiculous it is claiming you have fast reflexes and need at least 2 seconds to react.

I love how you conveniently ignore my post explaining why that .5sec is a problem when it comes to reaction and continue to argue. That’s .5sec without Quickness. So yeah, quickness, and even low amounts of latency. Also, who said it should be 2-3sec to react? One person did say the burst takes 2-3 and I said that would be an acceptable amount of time to be able to kill someone in. You also failed to respond to the obvious flaw in the .5sec scripted events argument. The player knows it will happen, and is expecting it. Why do you always assume the player already knows the thief is there? The point of insta gib builds is to attack a player who hasn’t noticed you.

As for people saying thieves if they fail, that’s not exactly true. If a player is running glass, he/she should be taking some escape option as well. If the backstab missed, then the thief is still invisible, even if it hits and fails, rendering issues means other still can’t see him for another .5sec. That’s more than enough time to switch to a shortbow and warp away to start escaping.

edit: P.S. Before you point out that it can still be countered… Of course it can be! Anything can be dodged/countered by something, but the amount of burst damage a thief can put out is just obscene compared to other professions. Heck, look at S/D elementalists. Their signet of earth>dragon tooth>phoenix>fire grab was nerfed to 54% of its original damage (actually even more, but it was later rebuffed slightly) and it took 4 seconds to hit, as well as having a very obvious your-about-to-be-clobbered sign.

Basically a sin in gw was too easy to shut down-any interrupt in their chain and it’s auto attacking with pitiful daggers. Now we have the thief that can a lot of damage even if one of their skills are interrupted.

Most rangers with 50 to 100ish ping can get 3/4 cast around mid recurve bow range and a mesmer should get 3/4 casts 99 percent of the time.

i started to play thief today , no skill at all just pushing buttons and in every fight i killed 10 ppl with ease hahahaha thieves are easy mode push button, mg thats why all thieves complain about qqing for their dmg, but its true, thieves are easy mode push button bot with uber dm output (thats why spvp population are 80% thieves )
in wvw theres not near numbers like spvp, hope anet realizes that and do something about that.

Velkira.2316:

Basically a sin in gw was too easy to shut down-any interrupt in their chain and it’s auto attacking with pitiful daggers. Now we have the thief that can a lot of damage even if one of their skills are interrupted.

Most rangers with 50 to 100ish ping can get 3/4 cast around mid recurve bow range and a mesmer should get 3/4 casts 99 percent of the time.

You can shut thiefs down a warrior can stunlock them with mace+ shield from full hp to death, and I’ve also done the same thing to a guardian and I do not use runes for an extra long stun. These were both 1v1 scenarios, just takes good stun timing (and possibly a bad guardian because I only did the guardian once) thiefs just tend to not bring stun removal it seems.

The whole idea of cc locks is something I’m not a fan of, I love how guildwars was actually different from mmos and wish gw2 took the guildwars route, I mean you can still adopt stun and other ccs and go the gw route.

offence.4726:

labotimy.2439:

offence.4726:

@labotimy funny reply , basically only a low ranked glory player who doesnt tpvp ( or paid ) has issues with glass cannon thieves running 14k hp. Having a 3 sec traited stealth with an immovable shadow refuge small aoe stealth can you still talk ? Did you ever play paid tpvp ? I hardly doubt it and if you did ? have you tried playing a glass cannon thief by any chance ? You obviously have no constructive feedback nor you know game mechanics as such.

oh man you totally demolished me with this response mr. pro gamer. i have done tournies prolly around 30 or 40 maybe more, not paid seeing as how they came out like last week and i already moved on. as posted previously im rank 2x and hit 2x during beta as well. no i have not tried a glass thief in tourny play, but have had at least 1 GLASS backstab using thief in just about every team i joined.

nice troll attempt btw, although not unique, basically every little piss ant that disagrees with a balance discussion will resort to the l2p argument.

This comming from the guy who walked away from tpvp and paid , letting us know how skilled is in his hotjoin PoV. Untill you try and run that glass cannon thief in a decent premade you have no argument. Also if you “walked” away why are you still concerned about the pvp situation which is extremely good atm. Hotjoin should be balanced by limiting the classes numbers per join , not by destroying a certain class untill it becomes unplayable , not from the cries of newcommers who dont know the game mechanics because if they did they wouldnt post in here and would be in game like most of us.

your post history isnt overly surprising. nuff said kiddo.

wow … did all GW1 players mouse click the whole time oO? … if yes then I can fully understand why there are so many ppl out there still getting killed by backstab thieves

Ok. So for those who have realized and for those who don’t know. Thieves have a backstab skill when they are invisible that can kill you really fast.

What to do: Dodge them. Don’t let them get behind you. Be ready for it.

I am a ranger and I love fighting thieves. I know exactly what they want and I won’t let them have it. Dodges and invuln skills are great. Just keep track of where the thief is and it is not a problem. Thieves are sooooo easy to kill. If they are invisible just “imagine” what they are doing. They are going to run right around you and backstab you. Its not hard and they aren’t lightning quick. I dodge 90% of backstabs and if they hit me I have my “O kitten” skills ready so they wont be able to kill me in that initial burst.

@Euratien

The problem here is that people with squishy builds actually want to take a full BS burst on their back without dying, they don’t want to counter it or dodge…they just don’t want to die no matter how noob they are….and those people are actually the reason why so many warriors run HB/frenzy…even if every decent player can avoid bs or hb burst there are still so many chickens around to farm points and instead learning how to deal with those guys and not being chain stomped they come here pretending anet to nerf everything that kill them…..

So i have a suggestion, let’s take out all dmg skills and leave only defensive ones and autoattack…so we will be all bunkers and noone will die…oh well probably they would still die also this way….

mesmers are the strongest all round class in the game. this should not happen to you.

Archaon.6245:

The problem here is that people with squishy builds actually want to take a full BS burst on their back without dying, they don’t want to counter it or dodge..

No the problem is that even if you go deep into toughness you take 8k hits from backstab. This plus the mobility and exploitable stealth mechanics cause issues with the thief.

This will be looked, at as stated already here:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Backstab-time-to-nerf/page/2#post601420

Theives.
I’m a Mesmer and they melt in seconds when they face me.
The problem is that thieves get too much of an advantage through backstab. You can see from the screenshot the OP posted that more than half his health was lost through the first attack. That already gives Heart Seeker a HUGE damage increase, which means a thief can down a player with just a Backstab and 1-2 Heat Seekers.

The only other class able to do such a thing is the Warrior, but you can see them coming and get a chance to dodge it. Thieves are meant to sacrifice damage for being able to skirt around and escape easily from combat.
It’s a trade off. Squishie glass cannons.
The issue is that they do TOO much damage with an attack that you can’t dodge (unless your psychic).

Anyone who doesn’t agree that something is wrong here is a thief who wants to feel holier than thou. The same type of player who chooses the cheap weapons or classes just to get easy wins.
ArenaNet, you have created a class that people only play for the sake of easy winning.

If that’s not a huge design flaw, what is?

“I’m a Mesmer and they melt in seconds when they face me.” Then your implying that mesmer needs a nerf too you bet your kitten it needs one. Im tired of seeing 10-12-15k mind wrecks and confusions in one global.

labotimy.2439:

offence.4726:

labotimy.2439:

offence.4726:

@labotimy funny reply , basically only a low ranked glory player who doesnt tpvp ( or paid ) has issues with glass cannon thieves running 14k hp. Having a 3 sec traited stealth with an immovable shadow refuge small aoe stealth can you still talk ? Did you ever play paid tpvp ? I hardly doubt it and if you did ? have you tried playing a glass cannon thief by any chance ? You obviously have no constructive feedback nor you know game mechanics as such.

oh man you totally demolished me with this response mr. pro gamer. i have done tournies prolly around 30 or 40 maybe more, not paid seeing as how they came out like last week and i already moved on. as posted previously im rank 2x and hit 2x during beta as well. no i have not tried a glass thief in tourny play, but have had at least 1 GLASS backstab using thief in just about every team i joined.

nice troll attempt btw, although not unique, basically every little piss ant that disagrees with a balance discussion will resort to the l2p argument.

This comming from the guy who walked away from tpvp and paid , letting us know how skilled is in his hotjoin PoV. Untill you try and run that glass cannon thief in a decent premade you have no argument. Also if you “walked” away why are you still concerned about the pvp situation which is extremely good atm. Hotjoin should be balanced by limiting the classes numbers per join , not by destroying a certain class untill it becomes unplayable , not from the cries of newcommers who dont know the game mechanics because if they did they wouldnt post in here and would be in game like most of us.

your post history isnt overly surprising. nuff said kiddo.

30-40 tourneys … how about 300+ and 1000+games ? i have them, my main is thief, like 800 games and… i feel OP only in Spvp, in tourneys its very balanced character.

@Diva: You are joking, right?
Otherwise: Erhh … no idea how you come up with that number. It is not really a constructive approach. And 30-40% is just not viable … but if that is what you want, then sure?
I do find thieves to be a challenging aspect as well as a PITA … and that is how it should be isn’t it?

As far as im aware. Ele used to be able to spike close to this level of damage. We took a 50% nerf to damage, and as a result, are unable to spec reliably into full power builds.

So its a real possibility that this may happen.

i play a necro ( RIP ), but can easily win sometimes also 2vs1, but just a thief is enough to kitten me.. no word.. 21k of damage.. just one question… why??
and why he can and i cannot??

ilarious mode off: ok, he has poor life and small armor.. but 21k of damage + stealth.. there are few things to do to save.. sometimes u haven’t the time…

The number of replies in a thread with such a title is a pretty strong indication of the extent of the thief burst problem. They need to change thieves so that they take some sort of strategy to play. Right now, even a monkey could get some kills while playing a thief and mashing some buttons.

It seems as if necros and eles forget about the protection and other things they get to hide behind.

Necros have a ton of protection and that will mitigate a lot of thief damage. Thiefs have none, no protection and get stealth where they still are hit and die in it quite often. I have quite a few screens where my necro killed 3 people at the same time maybe even one of four people at the same time.

While I do think that classes shouldn’t have to spec defensively to be really viable, and that glass cannons should last longer on the field for the most part, this is not a problem that is exclusively to the thief you need to think more about the games damage as a whole.

shaolin.9716:

The number of replies in a thread with such a title is a pretty strong indication of the extent of the thief burst problem. They need to change thieves so that they take some sort of strategy to play. Right now, even a monkey could get some kills while playing a thief and mashing some buttons.

I would be more inclined to say it is evidence of the extent of the debate, not that it is actually evidence there is a problem. This thread has people arguing its not so bad too.
Also the view to reply ratio implies far to large a margin of error. that is, Viewers who agree or disagree that didn’t respond.

how many people must say “nerf thiefs” for some results? how many wait to fix that bug?
yes, this is a bug. died in 1.5 second in pvp? u kidding me? no chance to fight, only instant deads.
game full of thiefs, annoying and disapointing.
soon, all rogue freaks from WoW come to that game – i runaway from that crap, they run to it here.
50% thiefs not enough? ha?
time to make spvp and www instances for thiefs teams and lock them there, i dont want 1 button, 1 second game, this is NOT pvp

Soundofshadow.8312:

thiefs realy make spvp sometimes kitteny, if you have a realy good thief in the enemy group he can 2v1 or even 3v1 you on YOUR point!

This really isn’t true at all. If you are getting 2v1 or 3v1 by a Thief, there is a problem alright, but it isn’t Thieves.

shaolin.9716:

The number of replies in a thread with such a title is a pretty strong indication of the extent of the thief burst problem. They need to change thieves so that they take some sort of strategy to play. Right now, even a monkey could get some kills while playing a thief and mashing some buttons.

Um last I checked, Thief isn’t Akuma. It’s one combo that lets you possibly “instagib” so you can’t just mash anything. It’s not the whole class that’s “OP” it’s just a particular build. I get the feeling people are forgetting that.

I dont think it’s a matter of the capability of knight being bad or new to spvp, but a balance issue. No skill should be able to do 17k damage(Cloak and Dagger results in back stab, so I consider it 1 skill) to any class, as any class. The highest damage I’ve ever seen was from a great sword warrior’s 100 blades during the beta, and it only did 9.5k and that got nerfed(slightly).

Hooglese.4860:

I dont think it’s a matter of the capability of knight being bad or new to spvp, but a balance issue. No skill should be able to do 17k damage(Cloak and Dagger results in back stab, so I consider it 1 skill) to any class, as any class. The highest damage I’ve ever seen was from a great sword warrior’s 100 blades during the beta, and it only did 9.5k and that got nerfed(slightly).

HB is capable of doing much higher than that (on live), nearly double, if you eat the full duration for a glass cannon Warrior, and are a glass cannon yourself.

It’s still bad, damage isn’t everything.

R E F L H E X.8413:

It seems as if necros and eles forget about the protection and other things they get to hide behind.

Necros have a ton of protection and that will mitigate a lot of thief damage. Thiefs have none, no protection and get stealth where they still are hit and die in it quite often. I have quite a few screens where my necro killed 3 people at the same time maybe even one of four people at the same time.

While I do think that classes shouldn’t have to spec defensively to be really viable, and that glass cannons should last longer on the field for the most part, this is not a problem that is exclusively to the thief you need to think more about the games damage as a whole.

good for you mate, if 3 people don’t kill you, wow!!!.. but if, with 21k of life and 2.1k of armor, u can inflict 18k damages to me.. i give up.. nothing to say.
a skill CANNOT inflicts to much damages. no brain. everytime a thiev kills me i see the same skill: heartseeker..
no sense

I don’t think you fully understood my post however my support necro did hold out fighting two thieves alone and got both to 30% hp before it died, and could’ve lasted longer if I placed well of power better since they were both condition thieves, if they were damage thieves it would have probably killed both from having protection the full fight from the well spec that gives protection.

I think your misunderstanding comes from the assumption that you are always alone when you kill three people, which is in a way a safe assumption due to the format but wasn’t always the case and most likely wasn’t in my screens, those screens are mostly a glassy (actually it’s kinda balanced but on the glass side its the nightmare runes I believe that has toughness + condi damage) condi necro doing aoe bleeds/poison.

I thank you all for this thread. Whether it is true o not whatever I have read, I may keep out of sPvP as long as I feel it to be not fair enough.

I’m a Guardian with 3.2k toughness and 18k health.

Feels balanced, man.

kagemitsu.3657:

I’m a Guardian with 3.2k toughness and 18k health.

Feels balanced, man.

What do you think? I have a big armor, I’m immortal !!! ????

2.3k Backstab DMG so hard !!!

No, I’m expecting that hitting 5 buttons shouldn’t kill me.
You’d think it’d take some thought, or at least 2 rotations.

Evilek.5690:

kagemitsu.3657:

I’m a Guardian with 3.2k toughness and 18k health.

Feels balanced, man.

What do you think? I have a big armor, I’m immortal !!! ????

2.3k Backstab DMG so hard !!!

I have 2.4k armor this is the result after signet was nerfed lemme guess i should have used my stunbreaker lmfao even tho he didn’t stun me. So much skill used here when 3 of the 5 buttons he clicked teleport him right to me.

That’s 24k of dmg in about 4 secs to a target with 2.4k armor lol and lemme guess that’s balanced right?

Fellknight.4820:

Evilek.5690:

kagemitsu.3657:

I’m a Guardian with 3.2k toughness and 18k health.

Feels balanced, man.

What do you think? I have a big armor, I’m immortal !!! ????

2.3k Backstab DMG so hard !!!

I have 2.4k armor this is the result after signet was nerfed lemme guess i should have used my stunbreaker lmfao even tho he didn’t stun me. So much skill used here when 3 of the 5 buttons he clicked teleport him right to me.

That’s 24k of dmg in about 4 secs to a target with 2.4k armor lol and lemme guess that’s balanced right?

http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/9861/gw025c.jpg

ilJumperMT.4871:

Fellknight.4820:

Evilek.5690:

kagemitsu.3657:

I’m a Guardian with 3.2k toughness and 18k health.

Feels balanced, man.

What do you think? I have a big armor, I’m immortal !!! ????

2.3k Backstab DMG so hard !!!

I have 2.4k armor this is the result after signet was nerfed lemme guess i should have used my stunbreaker lmfao even tho he didn’t stun me. So much skill used here when 3 of the 5 buttons he clicked teleport him right to me.

That’s 24k of dmg in about 4 secs to a target with 2.4k armor lol and lemme guess that’s balanced right?

http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/9861/gw025c.jpg

It’s being nerfed so stop trying to defend thieves with something that was broken and is gonna be fixed and has already stated by devs is a bug.

The difference between bladetrail bug and thieves burst is that the minute dev’s saw one screenshot of bladetrail bug they stated it was a bug and will be fixed next patch that was like 6 days ago, how long have thieves been op.