What exactly did you do to the new leaderboard system that people are gaining ranks for losing, losing ranks for winning and other weird stuff or just jump around between % and higher ranks.
I really wonder how I can lose ranks after winning 12x and half of the games vs top 100 or even top 30 teams while other players only have 5 wins from the last couple days and overtake me. You can argue they won versus more valuable opponents, but I can´t see it and honestly I don´t trust your system anymore so I would like some transparency on what is going on here.
Why don´t you show actual rating points?
Why don´t you show match history?
even external pages like gwshack.info include more information than the leaderboard.
It´s really frustrating when you invest time in something and then you can´t understand the progress you made there, like there aren´t enough frustrating things already.
What exactly did you do to the new leaderboard system that people are gaining ranks for losing, losing ranks for winning and other weird stuff or just jump around between % and higher ranks.
We’ve increased the decay and made it so it calculates hourly instead of daily.
I really wonder how I can lose ranks after winning 12x and half of the games vs top 100 or even top 30 teams while other players only have 5 wins from the last couple days and overtake me.You can argue they won versus more valuable opponents, but I can´t see it and honestly I don´t trust your system anymore so I would like some transparency on what is going on here.
This is most likely caused by players who haven’t played a while having their higher MMR restored. We know people want permanent decay, and we have plans that we should be sharing soon.
It´s really frustrating when you invest time in something and then you can´t understand the progress you made there, like there aren´t enough frustrating things already.
I completely understand. Many of us on the team are pushing for better and more timely sharing of information and plans.
As for the current leaderboards, the jumping around should settle down some after the reset coming up on the 29th.
As for the AFKers at the top, their free ride is over.
Server Programmer (sPvP)
Isle of Janthir: Flux, Latch, Aegir
I really wonder how I can lose ranks after winning 12x and half of the games vs top 100 or even top 30 teams while other players only have 5 wins from the last couple days and overtake me.You can argue they won versus more valuable opponents, but I can´t see it and honestly I don´t trust your system anymore so I would like some transparency on what is going on here.
This is most likely caused by players who haven’t played a while having their higher MMR restored. We know people want permanent decay, and we have plans that we should be sharing soon.
thank your for this quick response but
what does it mean, they have their mmr restored?
you resetted all ratings and now the leaderboard only includes the games after lastch patch influenced by our last mmr? So 800~ games that were made before are gone?
The MMR is a metric designed to reflect player skill as accurately as possible for the purpose of matching players together.
We also use it to determine leaderboard ranking. On the leaderboard we will deflate your MMR when you haven’t played for a while. The longer you haven’t played the further down it will go.
Since the MMR reflects skill we do not want to destroy that value, so we lower it on the leaderboards only. The next time you play your real MMR gets sent back to the leaderboard, overriding its local copy, which restores your position.
Server Programmer (sPvP)
Isle of Janthir: Flux, Latch, Aegir
The next time you play your real MMR gets sent back to the leaderboard, overriding its local copy, which restores your position.
When your position gets restored, then I don´t see any change to afkers on the leaderboard, they could just do 1 game right before rewards are given out ( I assume that´s the upcoming leaderboard reset) and are back to their old rank like before, so i don´t see the change to the old system.
And when is mmr restored? After how many days does decay kick in?
I’ve read all the devs answers on this matter, with decay, leaderboard position, MM, and others stuff. And ultimately I’ve come to agree with which the devs are saying: Actually the decay can’t be permanent and if it is changed to be permanent nothing will change from how the leaderbord work now.
For example a top 10 player or an entire team stop to play and decay to rank 800, when those team or players start to play again they will be matched against ppl with their actual rank, so to them will be too easy to retake their old position.
Imho the only way to fix definitely the leaderboard decay is to split the rating used into the MM and the leaderbord position itself, and made the decay slower but permanent.
Noone on my team really understands this whole thing, a sticky post that explains everything would help alot. We can keep asking little things and put it together like a puzzle, but that´s not helping the majority.
Noone on my team really understands this whole thing, a sticky post that explains everything would help alot. We can keep asking little things and put it together like a puzzle, but that´s not helping the majority.
Quote, a blogpost clarifying how leaderboard, MM, and decay work would be useful, and maybe the devs team have the perfect excuse to bring it out only now, with the 26th leaderboard reset. Seems fair to me: reset + blogpost with how everything work now and how they plan to change it in the near future.
how mmr works basically: you get rank 1, afk, decay kicks in which is only visible on leaderboards, you decay on a visible level on leaderboards however your internal mmr stays the same so when you play a game you’re given back your old mmr/rating with what seems an additional boost, or people just don’t have as much MMR as I had at peak. so when you see people that haven’t played in a while that have lost games they still gain their visible rating back and their mmr takes a loss, however it’s their old ‘high’ mmr that takes a loss but you’ll only see a huge leap in what they took on the leaderboards. This is kind of why we need visible rating. The visible rating at which has been decayed and in brackets their internal/top mmr which will be regained. EG – Symbolic – 1800 rating that’s decayed and visible leaderboard rank (3000) <- that’s my peak mmr when i stopped playing. Either that or decay is permanent which is probably going to be a future update.
we see other high ranked teams playing , try to queue when they are about to finish their game, then we are waiting 7 minutes, the other top 30 team gets q pop after they are 5 minutes in q, we get pop after 12 minutes for a 500-0 game every time.
mmr – what has no decay is jsut to find your team/enemy
ranking are pointz you make when win or lose
when the afkers come back now and make only 1 game the decay start and they WILL lose rnaking over time when they dont play
they will have it easier to go for top ranks again cause the mmr find highranked players for there team + enemy so when they win they get alot pointz per win – more than other players and ONLY this is a problem – here we need some decay modifier to let ppl not jump back with 1 or 2 games –
its fine when mmr dont reset so they have to play with and vs high players BUT when go afk 1 or 2 months it should need maby 10x more games to be back in ranking than what they need now – so gain maby only 50% from the rating than a normal palyer would gain for 5 games after 1 week afk and + 1 game per additional week
math for the numbers some intelligenter guyz have to do^^ but something like this we neeed or AFKers will inflate the ranking over time
mmr – what has no decay is jsut to find your team/enemy
ranking are pointz you make when win or lose
let me quote Justin ODell :
“The MMR is a metric designed to reflect player skill as accurately as possible for the purpose of matching players together.
We also use it to determine leaderboard ranking”
So there are no ranking points! They really have to explain the community how this leaderboard works. I mean someone must have designed it so he should be able to explain what he worked on for this long.
So there are no ranking points! They really have to explain the community how this leaderboard works. I mean someone must have designed it so he should be able to explain what he worked on for this long.
Space age technology, man. We’re not advanced enough for that knowledge.
Been here since launch
Legend S1-S3 with 100% solo queue 100% conquest
Filthy casual, 6k sPvP games
Some of this will go away after we reset MMRs for everyone. Many people at the top are only very high because of the syncing and stacking that went on before the matchmaking change. After the reset they won’t be able to get easy wins to inflate and maintain their leaderboard ranking.
The decay being temporary will still be an issue, but as I mentioned we have plans in place that will deal with that.
Server Programmer (sPvP)
Isle of Janthir: Flux, Latch, Aegir
I’ve read all the devs answers on this matter, with decay, leaderboard position, MM, and others stuff. And ultimately I’ve come to agree with which the devs are saying: Actually the decay can’t be permanent and if it is changed to be permanent nothing will change from how the leaderbord work now.
For example a top 10 player or an entire team stop to play and decay to rank 800, when those team or players start to play again they will be matched against ppl with their actual rank, so to them will be too easy to retake their old position.
Imho the only way to fix definitely the leaderboard decay is to split the rating used into the MM and the leaderbord position itself, and made the decay slower but permanent.
Exactly right. We’re going to strike at this problem at its root.
Server Programmer (sPvP)
Isle of Janthir: Flux, Latch, Aegir
Some of this will go away after we reset MMRs for everyone. Many people at the top are only very high because of the syncing and stacking that went on before the matchmaking change. After the reset they won’t be able to get easy wins to inflate and maintain their leaderboard ranking.
The decay being temporary will still be an issue, but as I mentioned we have plans in place that will deal with that.
He had a great start went 12-1 and as of now is rank 13. How can someone with only 12 wins rank so high when the majority of the top 100 have over a 100 games played? I don’t see how 12 wins should result in that even if he beat top 25 you would figure one would have to work their way up the leaderboard not be jolted to the top.
IGNs: The Guardian, Guard – Main Profession: Ranger
Leaderboard Peak Rankings: #2 Solo Arena | #11 Team Arena
I know that a lot of people asked for that before and I know that you have recently answered with a “I was not in dev team long enough to know that” but can you please ask the dev team to set the Glicko2 value as visible? It will help a lot to analyze the situation from a player perspective and it will solve a lot of question before they get posted on forums.
If you don’t want to set it to visible, then a “league” system may be fine too (similar to LoL current league system). Personally I prefer a public Glicko rating but it is just a matter of tastes.
I’ve read all the devs answers on this matter, with decay, leaderboard position, MM, and others stuff. And ultimately I’ve come to agree with which the devs are saying: Actually the decay can’t be permanent and if it is changed to be permanent nothing will change from how the leaderbord work now.
For example a top 10 player or an entire team stop to play and decay to rank 800, when those team or players start to play again they will be matched against ppl with their actual rank, so to them will be too easy to retake their old position.
Imho the only way to fix definitely the leaderboard decay is to split the rating used into the MM and the leaderbord position itself, and made the decay slower but permanent.
Exactly right. We’re going to strike at this problem at its root.
Point of Inquiry: In solo queue, is there any upper bound for the amount of decay applied to a rank? Let’s give an example: Rank #1 stops playing for 6 months and falls into the lowest 10%. Former rank #1 rejoins and finds himself grouped among the bottom 10%, and, because he or she is only 1 player among 5, cannot get out of the area he/she is in. Effectively that player decayed past the MMR event horizon and cannot escape.
Does, or will, the ranking system have mechanisms in place to recognize or prevent that from happening?
How can someone with only 12 wins rank so high when the majority of the top 100 have over a 100 games played?
Careful planning that takes advantage of off-peak hours, queue syncing, and stacking. This shot his MMR up very high.
Thanks for all your responses, it truly is appreciated. I understand how that could be a strategy but, the issue is that he’s played so few games compared to the others and the fact he just reached top1000: 2013-11-10 22:21:10 so either its a new account or like you said possibly played a match here and there went afk like others came back and then bam top 25. However, for someone to play just enough games to show on the leaderboard and then rank top 25 doesn’t make much sense. The minimum to show on the leaderboard should increase perhaps each day. This would help alleviate the issue, urge people to continue playing and still allow the leaderboard to fill out in the early days after reset.
IGNs: The Guardian, Guard – Main Profession: Ranger
Leaderboard Peak Rankings: #2 Solo Arena | #11 Team Arena
