Guild Wars 2

Anet I am confused. I just lost 8 in a row, over the weekend I lost 10 in a row, I thought the new system was supposed to stop this from happening, or at least less often. I’m not a new player, over 1k matches in unranked where both of these happened, but this is just off putting. Especially the match where my team didn’t even get 150-500. Only one of these matches was courtyard, and you’ve yet to release any findings from the old thread of ‘report bad matches’.

Been playing for years with almost 9K games.

Anyhow, if you solo queue, the matchmaking sometimes puts you in a “streak”, often, a losing streak. That’s where you lose in large chunks between 5-15 in a row.

Then you’ll be back to normal with whatever your win/lose average is. At least that’s the hypothesis because a lot of solo queuers have experienced the same thing

Its crappy enough when it happens, worse when the scores aren’t even close, but twice within days of each other? Come on anet what is this kitten.

The website requested for an API key. Aren’t API’s something you plug in to your website code to get access to feeds or data? Not sure I forgot. But I’d love to get access to the site. I was in a losing streak a few days ago.

Go to your account on this site. You can create API keys for various applications there.

Wow thanks that’s the coolest things ever. I love this. I did a screenie on where to go for the key for those who want to access their pvp stats.

OMG you guys, this is the COOLEST thing ever. I had no idea this even existed!!!
Here’s a screenie of the results page after you plug in the API Key. Awesome tool for solo queuers like me.

Very cool. Apparently, I suck at thief, but am pretty good with guard and engy.

OK so…what would you recommend then Evan? I want to play the three classes that are going to have lower professional MMR, but loosing streaks like this suck and don’t make me want to keep trying. Its not like I’m doing particularly crappy on my Engineer, maybe a little worse than the classes that I play more, but not bad enough to throw the match alone. Also thanks for responding, gives hope of anet listening to us.

This is really amazing stuff. I can’t get over it. Lol.

I’ve been exclusively solo queueing since December update and realized half of my losses came from 4v5s and full premades. My second account isn’t even on the leaderboard but it finished in the top 100 during first test ladder.

It would be awesome to queue in a full team but it’s hard to organize sometimes. The few occasions I was in a full premade, the win rate was around 75%

tevoro.1587:

OK so…what would you recommend then Evan? I want to play the three classes that are going to have lower professional MMR, but loosing streaks like this suck and don’t make me want to keep trying. Its not like I’m doing particularly crappy on my Engineer, maybe a little worse than the classes that I play more, but not bad enough to throw the match alone. Also thanks for responding, gives hope of anet listening to us.

What I really wish is for people to flood pvp so it secures a healthy population. Hopefully by then, the numbers are big enough to where solo and team queues can be separate again. My win rate in old solo queue were much higher than it is now.

I’m going to stop hoarding space on your thread OP. But I totally understand where you’re coming from

I just blame human nature by now. Some people have different types of gameplay and some people dont fit when theyre bunched together and that results in a loss. But then theres this small group of people that always gets throwned into groups where they dont belong due to their mmr isnt decided yet. But really, the matchmakingsystem works in theory but when its executed it has its flaws. To me its just weird when one person have no issues vs two meanwhile another die like a fly over and over and theyre supposed to belong in the same mmr…I have just accepted that the sytem is flawed, no other way to deal with it.

Ok so moving forward.

This in an important question most of us would appreciate answers to:

If you’re a solo queue player and of above average pvp skill and want to increase your MMR, how will that be possible if you get teamed up with a lot of newer players that are clueless?

How can a solo queue player possibly escape from being pooled in with people that further pull their MMRs down?

Why should a solo queue player be forced into organizing a full premade team when solo queuers make up the majority of the population?

Shouldn’t team players conform to solo queuers instead?

I’m saying have team players disband and play as a solo queue since they only make up a minority instead of having solo queuers be forced to match vs them. Besides, if they want to play as a team, there are tournaments available.

Solo queuers are left with no other options but be consistently tired and deflated and uninspired by all the mismatches with noobs that just started playing last month

well if they wanted a 50% winrate then they are spot on for all my characters. But its the way it happens which is a bit strange. Lots of streaks – win streaks followed by losing streaks.

The match making system isn’t perfect, it looks like its always playing catch up. Too many wins followed by too many loses to compensate.

I’m looking forward to this league system next expansion, it would be nice to include the data from GW2 efficiency INGAME. So we can see for ourselves our past game results without having to go to a website. How hard can it be? the data is there, just add a tab and format the information in the interface style. too easy.

Thobek.1730:

well if they wanted a 50% winrate then they are spot on for all my characters. But its the way it happens which is a bit strange. Lots of streaks – win streaks followed by losing streaks.

Sometimes I think their matchmaking algo makes 2 completely unbalanced teams on purpose and you have a 50/50 chance of what team you end up on. This would, in the long run, produce a 50/50 win rate with lots of blowouts which seems to at least be what I see happening.

I think it’s more probable that if you play at the wrong times you’re just fodder for premades. When I come into a match and everyone has the same guild tag or you see the entire team with a good composition and roaming the map in a very coordinated fashion, you know you’re against a premade and you’re almost for sure going to lose.

Pimsley.3681:

What I really wish is for people to flood pvp so it secures a healthy population. Hopefully by then, the numbers are big enough to where solo and team queues can be separate again. My win rate in old solo queue were much higher than it is now.

According to Colin the pvp numbers have never been better and are growing rapidly. My interpretation of this is that they don’t do solo queue because they hate us.

TorsoReaper.8530:

Pimsley.3681:

What I really wish is for people to flood pvp so it secures a healthy population. Hopefully by then, the numbers are big enough to where solo and team queues can be separate again. My win rate in old solo queue were much higher than it is now.

According to Colin the pvp numbers have never been better and are growing rapidly. My interpretation of this is that they don’t do solo queue because they hate us.

I took a screenie a while back of a thread titled something like High MMR Punished in Solo Q and one of the devs made a comment admitting how matchmaking is a bit unfair for higher MMR people.

I guess they want the win rate of high MMR people to balance out with the low MMR by placing them in teams with very little chance of winning. Here’s the screenie. I can’t find the thread though. It’s on this subforum somewhere….

Found it, I took the screenie around the time F2P became available and lost 12-14 games in a row.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/High-MMR-is-punished-for-solo-que/

Pim – appreciate your effort. Funny I also refer to that same thread when I’m taken back by how ridiculous some of the matchups are.

Thobek.1730:

I’m looking forward to this league system next expansion, it would be nice to include the data from GW2 efficiency INGAME. So we can see for ourselves our past game results without having to go to a website. How hard can it be? the data is there, just add a tab and format the information in the interface style. too easy.

We actually need to see more about the MMR itself. Other games do it why is GW2 so different that it shrouds it completely in secrecy?

Pimsley.3681:

Found it, I took the screenie around the time F2P became available and lost 12-14 games in a row.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/High-MMR-is-punished-for-solo-que/

Haha, I remember that thread well – my below post

(….) I haven’t received an answer.

It’s as simple as why the pseudo code takes score points of 100 increments instead of 5 increments, considering almost every factor in the game is in “5” and not “100”.
105, 110, 115 all the way to 495
instead of 100, 200, 300, 400, 500

If you have 1000 players each with an end team score between 400 and 450 points… they all shouldn’t get the same +3 rank point score. Should it not be in increments of 5 so they each have a more defining rank point score?

I truly hope that the Pseudo code algorithm has changed instead of placing a beautiful GUI over an engine that never improved.

It should show more matches and more data

Evan Lesh.3295:

Matchmaking is always trying to make 50/50 matches. There is no active streak-prevention built into matchmaking other than the fact that your MMR adjusts each game. Since you’ve been playing so much, your MMR is ‘certain’ and changes slowly. It has certainly adjusted over the course of the weekend, though.

I suggest watching your game history via a site like http://gw2efficiency.com/account/pvp that uses our new PvP API. This way you know exactly what streaks you’re on.

Edit: Both your streaks were when you played Engineer, which has a lower profession MMR than your account and other professions. Looks like you win more often on Thief

this is actually really cool so i thank you but is there anyway you guys could add our personal MMR to it for our own personal info?

Agreed.
It needs MMR, Number of Points gained or lost and the odds of winning.

I assume future League won’t include the above but.. we just need this.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Matchmaking is always trying to make 50/50 matches. There is no active streak-prevention built into matchmaking other than the fact that your MMR adjusts each game. Since you’ve been playing so much, your MMR is ‘certain’ and changes slowly. It has certainly adjusted over the course of the weekend, though.

I suggest watching your game history via a site like http://gw2efficiency.com/account/pvp that uses our new PvP API. This way you know exactly what streaks you’re on.

Edit: Both your streaks were when you played Engineer, which has a lower profession MMR than your account and other professions. Looks like you win more often on Thief

Isn’t that kinda frustrating? I mean now when I know that, I can pretty much always go AFK the match after I won, because game will make me lose sooner or later. So there’s no motivation for me to play the match, right?

And If I want to have a better chance at winning, I just go AFK in 10 matches and play after that 10 losses?

lol my highest winrate (outside of guardian who I only played 60 games on) is on my ranger. I find that funny, but I have to owe it to my old build, before the trait update. I used a crazy sustain build that just couldn’t be killed. I’d die maybe once per 4-5 games. I could fight 4 players and get away and 3 players without retreating. It was good fun.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Matchmaking is always trying to make 50/50 matches. There is no active streak-prevention built into matchmaking other than the fact that your MMR adjusts each game. Since you’ve been playing so much, your MMR is ‘certain’ and changes slowly. It has certainly adjusted over the course of the weekend, though.

I suggest watching your game history via a site like http://gw2efficiency.com/account/pvp that uses our new PvP API. This way you know exactly what streaks you’re on.

Edit: Both your streaks were when you played Engineer, which has a lower profession MMR than your account and other professions. Looks like you win more often on Thief

The flaw in this is pinballing MMR/games.
MMR should never try to force a 50% winrate, that will happen in time as your MMR rises.

Why isn’t the system like this: High MMR vs High MMR, low MMR vs low MMR? Why do they mix high and low MMR in a single team?

To increase the pool of players and reduce wait times.

GrandHaven.1052:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Matchmaking is always trying to make 50/50 matches. There is no active streak-prevention built into matchmaking other than the fact that your MMR adjusts each game. Since you’ve been playing so much, your MMR is ‘certain’ and changes slowly. It has certainly adjusted over the course of the weekend, though.

I suggest watching your game history via a site like http://gw2efficiency.com/account/pvp that uses our new PvP API. This way you know exactly what streaks you’re on.

Edit: Both your streaks were when you played Engineer, which has a lower profession MMR than your account and other professions. Looks like you win more often on Thief

The flaw in this is pinballing MMR/games.
MMR should never try to force a 50% winrate, that will happen in time as your MMR rises.

Forcing? Uhm… If we assume two equal teams – or unequal for that matter – there is a 50% chance you will win and a 50% chance you will loose. Which means that the average over time will be just that, 50%.

Its hard to avoid basic math. People that doesnt approach this is doing things to avoid it. Like the pics above. Its not suspicious at all with 80% winrate in custom arenas and close to 50% in any normal matchup. Nope, not at all.

Dawdler.8521:

GrandHaven.1052:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Matchmaking is always trying to make 50/50 matches. There is no active streak-prevention built into matchmaking other than the fact that your MMR adjusts each game. Since you’ve been playing so much, your MMR is ‘certain’ and changes slowly. It has certainly adjusted over the course of the weekend, though.

I suggest watching your game history via a site like http://gw2efficiency.com/account/pvp that uses our new PvP API. This way you know exactly what streaks you’re on.

Edit: Both your streaks were when you played Engineer, which has a lower profession MMR than your account and other professions. Looks like you win more often on Thief

The flaw in this is pinballing MMR/games.
MMR should never try to force a 50% winrate, that will happen in time as your MMR rises.

Forcing? Uhm… If we assume two equal teams – or unequal for that matter – there is a 50% chance you will win and a 50% chance you will loose. Which means that the average over time will be just that, 50%.

Its hard to avoid basic math. People that doesnt approach this is doing things to avoid it. Like the pics above. Its not suspicious at all with 80% winrate in custom arenas and close to 50% in any normal matchup. Nope, not at all.

The intent of your comment is quite sinister. It seems to me that the current matchmaking is just fine with you and that you don’t give a care that experienced players are algorithmically being pulled down and prevented from progressing. That or
you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

More than anything, your comment is disrespectful to the OP and others who have experienced unfair matchmaking.

The devs admitted it’s not very fair and that “streaks” do happen depending on MMR. Yet, we have no idea what it is because it’s hidden from us. And all of that seems to be okay with you. That’s fine with me but you have no right to speak for us about the answers we seek.

Vapour.7348:

Dawdler.8521:

GrandHaven.1052:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Matchmaking is always trying to make 50/50 matches. There is no active streak-prevention built into matchmaking other than the fact that your MMR adjusts each game. Since you’ve been playing so much, your MMR is ‘certain’ and changes slowly. It has certainly adjusted over the course of the weekend, though.

I suggest watching your game history via a site like http://gw2efficiency.com/account/pvp that uses our new PvP API. This way you know exactly what streaks you’re on.

Edit: Both your streaks were when you played Engineer, which has a lower profession MMR than your account and other professions. Looks like you win more often on Thief

The flaw in this is pinballing MMR/games.
MMR should never try to force a 50% winrate, that will happen in time as your MMR rises.

Forcing? Uhm… If we assume two equal teams – or unequal for that matter – there is a 50% chance you will win and a 50% chance you will loose. Which means that the average over time will be just that, 50%.

Its hard to avoid basic math. People that doesnt approach this is doing things to avoid it. Like the pics above. Its not suspicious at all with 80% winrate in custom arenas and close to 50% in any normal matchup. Nope, not at all.

The intent of your comment is quite sinister. It seems to me that the current matchmaking is just fine with you and that you don’t give a care that experienced players are algorithmically being pulled down and prevented from progressing. That or
you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

More than anything, your comment is disrespectful to the OP and others who have experienced unfair matchmaking.

The devs admitted it’s not very fair and that “streaks” do happen depending on MMR. Yet, we have no idea what it is because it’s hidden from us. And all of that seems to be okay with you. That’s fine with me but you have no right to speak for us about the answers we seek.

I have maybe read wrong. Before saying anything more, I agree that we have a lot of information about the current system “hidden” from us: we don’t have numbers, statistics, etc…

That said, on one hand, Evan said the system always tries to do a 50/50 matches, which is natural. On top of that, the OP has been playing a lot recently as Evan has also said, which makes OP’s MMR to adjust more slowly. Id est, 50/50 matches with little MMR movement should mean he has been playing with his the same MMR players pool (ideally).

So… no losing streak should affect him I believe? Maybe I understood wrong. This is, not taking into account what Justin said (which is 5 months old and it could have been changed, who knows).

If we consider Justin information, then it might be not a “losing streak” effect but simply bad luck due to a bad matchmaking (and even this is uncertain given the information on Justin post, because he writes that MMR isn’t the only factor that affects matchmaking).

Then, all of these affirmations are based on the lack of information we have: Justin said matchmaking in the oversimplification seemed unfair, but there are other factors considered (that we don’t know); while Evan just told that, while there’s no streak-prevention system other than MMR, OP’s MMR wasn’t volatile, so he should have faced people of his same skill (ideally).

I have experienced losing streaks as well and it sucks. But I’ve had winning streaks and “normal(?)” streaks as well (50/50). We can just hope matchmaking gets better.

P.S.: It’s interesting how, at least in this case, the profession MMR (which doesn’t factor into matches as Evan clarified) was pretty “accurate”. It’s good to know that.

@all

gw2efficiency is a trusted site right?

Poliator.7021:

Vapour.7348:

Dawdler.8521:

GrandHaven.1052:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Matchmaking is always trying to make 50/50 matches. There is no active streak-prevention built into matchmaking other than the fact that your MMR adjusts each game. Since you’ve been playing so much, your MMR is ‘certain’ and changes slowly. It has certainly adjusted over the course of the weekend, though.

I suggest watching your game history via a site like http://gw2efficiency.com/account/pvp that uses our new PvP API. This way you know exactly what streaks you’re on.

Edit: Both your streaks were when you played Engineer, which has a lower profession MMR than your account and other professions. Looks like you win more often on Thief

The flaw in this is pinballing MMR/games.
MMR should never try to force a 50% winrate, that will happen in time as your MMR rises.

Forcing? Uhm… If we assume two equal teams – or unequal for that matter – there is a 50% chance you will win and a 50% chance you will loose. Which means that the average over time will be just that, 50%.

Its hard to avoid basic math. People that doesnt approach this is doing things to avoid it. Like the pics above. Its not suspicious at all with 80% winrate in custom arenas and close to 50% in any normal matchup. Nope, not at all.

The intent of your comment is quite sinister. It seems to me that the current matchmaking is just fine with you and that you don’t give a care that experienced players are algorithmically being pulled down and prevented from progressing. That or
you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

More than anything, your comment is disrespectful to the OP and others who have experienced unfair matchmaking.

The devs admitted it’s not very fair and that “streaks” do happen depending on MMR. Yet, we have no idea what it is because it’s hidden from us. And all of that seems to be okay with you. That’s fine with me but you have no right to speak for us about the answers we seek.

I have maybe read wrong. Before saying anything more, I agree that we have a lot of information about the current system “hidden” from us: we don’t have numbers, statistics, etc…

That said, on one hand, Evan said the system always tries to do a 50/50 matches, which is natural. On top of that, the OP has been playing a lot recently as Evan has also said, which makes OP’s MMR to adjust more slowly. Id est, 50/50 matches with little MMR movement should mean he has been playing with his the same MMR players pool (ideally).

So… no losing streak should affect him I believe? Maybe I understood wrong. This is, not taking into account what Justin said (which is 5 months old and it could have been changed, who knows).

If we consider Justin information, then it might be not a “losing streak” effect but simply bad luck due to a bad matchmaking (and even this is uncertain given the information on Justin post, because he writes that MMR isn’t the only factor that affects matchmaking).

Then, all of these affirmations are based on the lack of information we have: Justin said matchmaking in the oversimplification seemed unfair, but there are other factors considered (that we don’t know); while Evan just told that, while there’s no streak-prevention system other than MMR, OP’s MMR wasn’t volatile, so he should have faced people of his same skill (ideally).

I have experienced losing streaks as well and it sucks. But I’ve had winning streaks and “normal(?)” streaks as well (50/50). We can just hope matchmaking gets better.

P.S.: It’s interesting how, at least in this case, the profession MMR (which doesn’t factor into matches as Evan clarified) was pretty “accurate”. It’s good to know that.

This wasn’t from 5 months ago, but I remember a thread where Justin said the matches you enter are pre-determined or at least has a percentage of your win ratio for that match. He made a comment telling someone that they had an x% of winning a certain match. And the number wasn’t 50.

That confirms that you are in literally an underdog team that matchmaking created in favor of your opponents.

And we’re not stupid, we didn’t need the confirmation that we were in the weaker team because we figured it out already. Don’t tell me you have never been deflated and wondered what in heavens name your team is doing and why you were teamed with them in the first place.

Vapour.7348:

Poliator.7021:

Vapour.7348:

Dawdler.8521:

GrandHaven.1052:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Matchmaking is always trying to make 50/50 matches. There is no active streak-prevention built into matchmaking other than the fact that your MMR adjusts each game. Since you’ve been playing so much, your MMR is ‘certain’ and changes slowly. It has certainly adjusted over the course of the weekend, though.

I suggest watching your game history via a site like http://gw2efficiency.com/account/pvp that uses our new PvP API. This way you know exactly what streaks you’re on.

Edit: Both your streaks were when you played Engineer, which has a lower profession MMR than your account and other professions. Looks like you win more often on Thief

The flaw in this is pinballing MMR/games.
MMR should never try to force a 50% winrate, that will happen in time as your MMR rises.

Forcing? Uhm… If we assume two equal teams – or unequal for that matter – there is a 50% chance you will win and a 50% chance you will loose. Which means that the average over time will be just that, 50%.

Its hard to avoid basic math. People that doesnt approach this is doing things to avoid it. Like the pics above. Its not suspicious at all with 80% winrate in custom arenas and close to 50% in any normal matchup. Nope, not at all.

The intent of your comment is quite sinister. It seems to me that the current matchmaking is just fine with you and that you don’t give a care that experienced players are algorithmically being pulled down and prevented from progressing. That or
you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

More than anything, your comment is disrespectful to the OP and others who have experienced unfair matchmaking.

The devs admitted it’s not very fair and that “streaks” do happen depending on MMR. Yet, we have no idea what it is because it’s hidden from us. And all of that seems to be okay with you. That’s fine with me but you have no right to speak for us about the answers we seek.

I have maybe read wrong. Before saying anything more, I agree that we have a lot of information about the current system “hidden” from us: we don’t have numbers, statistics, etc…

That said, on one hand, Evan said the system always tries to do a 50/50 matches, which is natural. On top of that, the OP has been playing a lot recently as Evan has also said, which makes OP’s MMR to adjust more slowly. Id est, 50/50 matches with little MMR movement should mean he has been playing with his the same MMR players pool (ideally).

So… no losing streak should affect him I believe? Maybe I understood wrong. This is, not taking into account what Justin said (which is 5 months old and it could have been changed, who knows).

If we consider Justin information, then it might be not a “losing streak” effect but simply bad luck due to a bad matchmaking (and even this is uncertain given the information on Justin post, because he writes that MMR isn’t the only factor that affects matchmaking).

Then, all of these affirmations are based on the lack of information we have: Justin said matchmaking in the oversimplification seemed unfair, but there are other factors considered (that we don’t know); while Evan just told that, while there’s no streak-prevention system other than MMR, OP’s MMR wasn’t volatile, so he should have faced people of his same skill (ideally).

I have experienced losing streaks as well and it sucks. But I’ve had winning streaks and “normal(?)” streaks as well (50/50). We can just hope matchmaking gets better.

P.S.: It’s interesting how, at least in this case, the profession MMR (which doesn’t factor into matches as Evan clarified) was pretty “accurate”. It’s good to know that.

This wasn’t from 5 months ago, but I remember a thread where Justin said the matches you enter are pre-determined or at least has a percentage of your win ratio for that match. He made a comment telling someone that they had an x% of winning a certain match. And the number wasn’t 50.

That confirms that you are in literally an underdog team that matchmaking created in favor of your opponents.

And we’re not stupid, we didn’t need the confirmation that we were in the weaker team because we figured it out already. Don’t tell me you have never been deflated and wondered what in heavens name your team is doing and why you were teamed with them in the first place.

Oh yeah, they make the “odds of victory” thingie when the match is already made, or at least that’s what they tell officially? If you are referring to that, it’s team-wide even if you queue Solo, I believe.

I’ve wondered that many times, don’t worry, we all have felt like that I think.

Also, thank you for the clarification.

Poliator.7021:

Oh yeah, they make the “odds of victory” thingie when the match is already made, or at least that’s what they tell officially? If you are referring to that, it’s team-wide even if you queue Solo, I believe.

I’ve wondered that many times, don’t worry, we all have felt like that I think.

Also, thank you for the clarification.

Sometimes it gets so bad you can’t help but laugh it all off. One match a teammate was complaining about how bugged the game was because he couldn’t get the treb to fire. I had to stop what I was doing coz I couldn’t concentrate anymore from loling hard. It was even a challenge for me to type in that he was on the opponents treb.

ITT: People who have never played a MOBA long enough to realize that MMR systems are inherently “streaky”.

The matchmaker tries to force your overall win/loss to 50% over time. So in some games, yes, you have less than a 50% chance to win on purpose. HOWEVER, if you do win them then your MMR increases at a greater rate than it would for a 50+% chance to win match. This is how your MMR will increase over time until you hit a wall of skill and stay at 50%.

The real problem is that people blame “premades” and “unfair matches” rather than their own failures or misplays.

Just take a look at the person posting their stats on this thread, they have an 80% winrate in custom arenas, i.e. not matchmaking games that they clearly stack with friends against hotjoiners. This same person has less than 50% win in unranked/ranked, meaning that they think their losses are to “premades” but more likely the losses result from bad habits picked up playing EZ custom games.

The person who posted their stats is actually a very good player with a deep understanding of gw2 pvp. Unfortunately he only solo queues like I do. I’ve encountered him in-game many times as both a teammate and an opponent. I respect that he posted his stats to share with you what the results looked like and didn’t mind being transparent.

This isn’t like the former soloQ where a 50% win rate was more predictable and a measurement of your skill. Today, when teamed with inexperienced players plus matches against premades, it isn’t fair to say that 50% win rate is expected for solo queuers.

In fact, there was a thread posted above on how solo queue further punishes higher MMR players.

I’m not defending the guy who posted his stats. All Im saying out of my experience is that he is a skilled and competent player who is a cut above the majority

displacedTitan.6897:

ITT: People who have never played a MOBA long enough to realize that MMR systems are inherently “streaky”.

The matchmaker tries to force your overall win/loss to 50% over time. So in some games, yes, you have less than a 50% chance to win on purpose. HOWEVER, if you do win them then your MMR increases at a greater rate than it would for a 50+% chance to win match. This is how your MMR will increase over time until you hit a wall of skill and stay at 50%.

The real problem is that people blame “premades” and “unfair matches” rather than their own failures or misplays.

Just take a look at the person posting their stats on this thread, they have an 80% winrate in custom arenas, i.e. not matchmaking games that they clearly stack with friends against hotjoiners. This same person has less than 50% win in unranked/ranked, meaning that they think their losses are to “premades” but more likely the losses result from bad habits picked up playing EZ custom games.

So many uninformed people here about matchmaking.

Just look at the leaderboard. Some of the best players I know aren’t even in the top 100. I see mediocre players rank higher as well as have a higher win ratio than someone with 4x more experience and a higher skill level

So the arguments some of you people make are invalid. Geez, even devs admitted matchmaking wasn’t fair for high MMR people.

Also I find it very rude to use Pimsley’s stats to make a point….whatever the heck your point is when he was trying to be helpful. Just by the lack of understanding you’ve displayed, it wouldn’t surprise me if he’s a way better pvper than you.

Unhappy insecure people always look at the faults of others because it makes them feel better about themselves. They don’t try to help better themselves or help others around them

Can we sticky the instructions to get PvP results? Can we also make a convenient, through the guild wars website way to access our own PvP? that would be really nice.

displacedTitan.6897:

ITT: People who have never played a MOBA long enough to realize that MMR systems are inherently “streaky”.

The matchmaker tries to force your overall win/loss to 50% over time. So in some games, yes, you have less than a 50% chance to win on purpose. HOWEVER, if you do win them then your MMR increases at a greater rate than it would for a 50+% chance to win match. This is how your MMR will increase over time until you hit a wall of skill and stay at 50%.

The real problem is that people blame “premades” and “unfair matches” rather than their own failures or misplays.

Just take a look at the person posting their stats on this thread, they have an 80% winrate in custom arenas, i.e. not matchmaking games that they clearly stack with friends against hotjoiners. This same person has less than 50% win in unranked/ranked, meaning that they think their losses are to “premades” but more likely the losses result from bad habits picked up playing EZ custom games.

Here’s some simple math and hopefully you can correct me if I’m wrong but, unfortunately, I don’t think I am.

Let’s say someone plays 100 matches, normally you would assume a 50% win rate and therefore 50 wins, 50 losses. HOWEVER, we DO have premades. Let’s say a pug vs premade only has a 40% chance at winning (which is probably lower but let’s just say this is the number because I’m being nice). Out of 100 matches, if half are pug vs premade and half are pug vs pug (again, i’m being pretty darn generous), you are now at 25 wins + 20 wins for a net W/L ratio of 45%. IRL pug vs premade happens incredibly often and the chance of a pug team beating a premade team who has better communication, better team comp, and better synergies from playing together, the w/l probability is probably closer to 20% which would imply a < 35% w/l ratio.

Revolutionen.5693:

Why isn’t the system like this: High MMR vs High MMR, low MMR vs low MMR? Why do they mix high and low MMR in a single team?

The concept is like this:
You have a 10 people, 1 is the best, 10 is the worst.

Red Team: 10, 5, 4, 3, 2
Blue team: 9, 8, 7, 6, 1

The idea behind it is #1 spot should be challenged, after all, if it was spread even between the two teams #1 will ALWAYS be #1. Despite the teams MMR being perfectly even between the two. If you add the even numbers and the odd numbers, the team with the #1 player will have a combined MMR of 25 and the other team would have the combined number of 30. That is why you must challenge the #1 spot and keep it unfair, as if you are #1 you will STAY #1 as your team will always been better than the other.

It sucks, but it’s math. You CANNOT perfectly match players 100+ queuing players that have MMR ranging between 1 and 10,000

But here is the issue, the low player base.
Instead of 10-1 you got 10,000-1 so teams can look like this

Red Team MMR: 708, 80, 56, 43, 30
Blue Team MMR: 700, 650, 432, 320, 5

Blue might as well /resign
To make matters even worse, queuing as a team can be even more toxic.

Team Queue Red MMR: solo queing -> 3,473, 23, 17, 10, 9, 8
Team Queue Blue MMR: 440, 338, 285, 108, 34 <- solo queing

There has been plenty of times I beat top tier teams, but you know what happens? The enemy team had that 1 Ranger which I camped at far point all game on my Elementalist, it might as well been a 4v5 as I was able to run between mid and far, holding both points the entire game without any issues. It was simply because the MMR for Red Team is monstrously high so to make it ‘fair’ the system will grab practically anyone with low MMR.

This wouldn’t be an issue if PvP had more players. When you have more numbers to match, the easier it is to put them together.

If the system was ‘fair’ we’d be seeing queue times of +30 minutes or even hour long queues.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Matchmaking is always trying to make 50/50 matches. There is no active streak-prevention built into matchmaking other than the fact that your MMR adjusts each game. Since you’ve been playing so much, your MMR is ‘certain’ and changes slowly. It has certainly adjusted over the course of the weekend, though.

I suggest watching your game history via a site like http://gw2efficiency.com/account/pvp that uses our new PvP API. This way you know exactly what streaks you’re on.

Edit: Both your streaks were when you played Engineer, which has a lower profession MMR than your account and other professions. Looks like you win more often on Thief

That’s an interesting website, hopefully there’s a better supported and official one in the future. Anyways I decided to check it out and what I got was fairly typical. I guess it’s my fault for soloq 95% of the time. Sure some of the losses are close, so I guess the system is working as intended, however that doesn’t make it any less frustrating at times.

Harbinger.8637:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Matchmaking is always trying to make 50/50 matches. There is no active streak-prevention built into matchmaking other than the fact that your MMR adjusts each game. Since you’ve been playing so much, your MMR is ‘certain’ and changes slowly. It has certainly adjusted over the course of the weekend, though.

I suggest watching your game history via a site like http://gw2efficiency.com/account/pvp that uses our new PvP API. This way you know exactly what streaks you’re on.

Edit: Both your streaks were when you played Engineer, which has a lower profession MMR than your account and other professions. Looks like you win more often on Thief

That’s an interesting website, hopefully there’s a better supported and official one in the future. Anyways I decided to check it out and what I got was fairly typical. I guess it’s my fault for soloq 95% of the time. Sure some of the losses are close, so I guess the system is working as intended, however that doesn’t make it any less frustrating at times.

Monday I only lost two games. Yesterday was worse but not too bad. I mainly soloQ but win the majority of my games ^.^

Nova Stiker.8396:

Revolutionen.5693:

Why isn’t the system like this: High MMR vs High MMR, low MMR vs low MMR? Why do they mix high and low MMR in a single team?

The concept is like this:
You have a 10 people, 1 is the best, 10 is the worst.

Red Team: 10, 5, 4, 3, 2
Blue team: 9, 8, 7, 6, 1

The idea behind it is #1 spot should be challenged, after all, if it was spread even between the two teams #1 will ALWAYS be #1. Despite the teams MMR being perfectly even between the two. If you add the even numbers and the odd numbers, the team with the #1 player will have a combined MMR of 25 and the other team would have the combined number of 30. That is why you must challenge the #1 spot and keep it unfair, as if you are #1 you will STAY #1 as your team will always been better than the other.

It sucks, but it’s math. You CANNOT perfectly match players 100+ queuing players that have MMR ranging between 1 and 10,000

But here is the issue, the low player base.
Instead of 10-1 you got 10,000-1 so teams can look like this

Red Team MMR: 708, 80, 56, 43, 30
Blue Team MMR: 700, 650, 432, 320, 5

Blue might as well /resign
To make matters even worse, queuing as a team can be even more toxic.

Team Queue Red MMR: solo queing -> 3,473, 23, 17, 10, 9, 8
Team Queue Blue MMR: 440, 338, 285, 108, 34 <- solo queing

There has been plenty of times I beat top tier teams, but you know what happens? The enemy team had that 1 Ranger which I camped at far point all game on my Elementalist, it might as well been a 4v5 as I was able to run between mid and far, holding both points the entire game without any issues. It was simply because the MMR for Red Team is monstrously high so to make it ‘fair’ the system will grab practically anyone with low MMR.

This wouldn’t be an issue if PvP had more players. When you have more numbers to match, the easier it is to put them together.

---

If the system was ‘fair’ we’d be seeing queue times of +30 minutes or even hour long queues.

Right now Anet is saying that populations are high and growing so….

displacedTitan.6897:

ITT: People who have never played a MOBA long enough to realize that MMR systems are inherently “streaky”.

The matchmaker tries to force your overall win/loss to 50% over time. So in some games, yes, you have less than a 50% chance to win on purpose. HOWEVER, if you do win them then your MMR increases at a greater rate than it would for a 50+% chance to win match. This is how your MMR will increase over time until you hit a wall of skill and stay at 50%.

The real problem is that people blame “premades” and “unfair matches” rather than their own failures or misplays.

Just take a look at the person posting their stats on this thread, they have an 80% winrate in custom arenas, i.e. not matchmaking games that they clearly stack with friends against hotjoiners. This same person has less than 50% win in unranked/ranked, meaning that they think their losses are to “premades” but more likely the losses result from bad habits picked up playing EZ custom games.

Lol he has way more credibility than you because a lot of people can relate to the frustration he and the OP is having.

Secondly, it looks as if he made it in the top 200 for both the old team leaderboard when there were a higher density of experienced pvpers around and the most recent leaderboard.

You on the other hand, have no substance nor credibility to your claims

Vapour.7348:

The intent of your comment is quite sinister.

Sinister? There is nothing sinister about probability. A player make up 20% of the team, which can matter in individual matchups, but again over time the other 80% that you have no control over will dominate the deciding factor. Which is win or loose. Two states, no more no less. 50/50. You are not in control of your win ratio… Unless you start controlling the other players or play in custom arenas. But I assume we are talking random matchups.

This is neither a bad or sinister thing, its perfectly normal.