Guild Wars 2

A already clustered pvp with too many spell effects dont need more comfusion – mesmers. Ive really tried to get into this extremely fast paced, non-tactical pvp, and it IS actually quite enjoyable at times. But as soon as that class appears you completely lose control over the situation whatsoever. Mesmers are OP due to the fact that people cant find the real one, thus the mesmer will take no damage. I understand the concept of this class and its a really cool idea, but you NEED to reduce the number of clones/phantasms it can have at one point. Its inhuman to be able to keep track of just one mesmer, that plus guardians/warriors/elementalists etc. bashing you down in no time just makes anyone wanna ragequit. And even when theyre down, the kitteng teleport around and guess what, CREATE MORE CLONES. Like i said, really cool i dea! but the number of illusions is just out of hand.

/mad necro

Thx for the laugh. Now go hard try nec or test mesmer

Hmm… Have you played Mesmer? Do you know how many clones/illusions they can have at the same time? Well they can have 3 clones or Illusions active. To lower that number would damage that class a great deal. What if they only let you use two Minions and not four at the same time? And you claim this game to be non-tactical PvP… It makes me laugh since if you just use your brain and figure out the mesmers patterns and skills you can quickly see what mesmer is the real one.

I play quite alot mesmer in PvP atm but I notice alot of players have figured out my pattern and know exactly where I am and my build is made to do alot of damage when players kills my clones so I notice this pretty easy.

The classes I have the most troubles with is necros and Engineers. I don’t wanna be insulting but LTP your class before you go suggesting to nerf Mesmers whole mechanic.

If this was only true for higher level pvp.. quite easy to track a mesmer actually, just something you have to get used to it

rather than acting like a smart-kitten like the guys above, i’ll take a better approach since we all went through the stage of mesmer hate before we figured out the “tells”.

1. movement, if the clones are in range and line-of-sight of you they won’t move
(unless shattered, in which case they’ll all run right at you)
look for a mesmer whos running around, backpeddling or strafing, thats usually the easiest tell.

2. clones will only cast one skill, and its usually only every 2-3 seconds,
look for the mesmer who is casting other skills or is casting at different intervals to the others

3. target the main mesmer and unless they stealth then they will remain your target,
if they do stealth keep your eyes open and watch for them reappearing.

4. conditions, spamming conditions on the mesmer will both take him down even while he’s hiding in stealth and also help you to identify him when he reappears,
just nuke the one thats covered with DoTs!

finally you can just aoe the clones down, shatters and phantasms make up the majority of a mesmers damage, taking them out only takes a hit or two, and will make things difficult for the mesmer

Liewec neraly told everything. the only thing missing: dodge. The real mesmer dodges. Thats probably the easiest way to tell who the real mes is.

i don’t mind mesmers themself tbh and usually have no issues sticking to real one

but amount of AI on screen, especially if you face mm necro + spirit ranger + mesmer at the same time is ridicilous… i can’t even see myself… so i can kind of understand where OP is comming from althrough i am not quite sure how it would be possible to reduce amount of trash on the screen w/o nerfing pet classes too hard

Yes. I’ve had 3 mesmers twice on the other team today. It can be hard to see what is what then.

I think we need a generic “x profession is ruining pvp” thread.

unless you mean PU mesmer, you probably just suck

Memsers? Seriously? rofl

Get out from hj already man…

Well he has a point. A year ago we were complaining about particle-effects clustering teamfights. Rememember?

-mesmer clones, explosions, butterflies
-engie grenade spikes dropping u to 1fps
-ele but not as problematic as above 2

The fixes?

-1 small patch nobody noticed
-spirit rangers
-MM necros (due to condi nerf and counters)

Back to topic, we all had problems as new pvp against mesmers. Its a matter of time untill spoting the real one becomes a reflex.

Only thing that theres no counter to is PU mesmer cz of too much stealth. A good mesmer can CC you around on necro, but you can kill him back too, so its fair.

hi purplesilver. i think u dont understand my class very well. i main a mesmer and my main alt is a necro.
i understand that fighting a mesmer can be frustrating when new to spvp, but mes is def not the one ruining the game. i tried almost every build for mes that is out there, but after all the nerfs to non ai mesmer builds, we are very stuck with illusion builds.
btw try mm necro build vs mesmers as mesmer have mainly single targeting skills.

u cant remove clones or phantasms for mesmer as it is our main attacks. :
here a little summary for u about skills and traits that involve clones and phantasms(illusions):

weapon skills
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Berserker 20 second cooldown
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phase_Retreat its a clone(important for shattering)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ether_Clone clone
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Swordsman 20 second cooldown
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Warden (has been bugged for a very long time now and doesnt deal dmg 90% of the time)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Duelist phantasm again
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Mage

utilities:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Decoy 40 second cooldown
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mirror_Images 45 second cooldown
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Defender 30 second cooldown
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Disenchanter 20 second cooldown

reducing illusions would affect all shatter skills
so f1-f4 = useless unless traited with this:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Illusionary_Persona

traits:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Imbued_Diversion
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Illusionary_Invigoration
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Masterful_Reflection
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Confusing_Cry
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Precise_Wrack
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shattered_Strength
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Illusionary_Retribution
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vengeful_Images
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Healing
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vigorous_Revelation
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Persisting_Images
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Compounding_Celerity
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shattered_Conditions
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Restorative_Illusions
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rending_Shatter
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crippling_Dissipation
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shattered_Concentration
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sharper_Images
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Confusing_Combatants
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deceptive_Evasion
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Illusionary_Defense

i u check out build editor, check if u can make a build which doesnt require illusions.
in wvw mesmers dont even have a real build, because of ai and too many dueling and ai traits and skills. ai is terrible in wvw. so no wonder people go pu power builds( that dont rely on clonedeath condis. atm the only build out there for me in wvw where i can survive and have at least some power.
as u see u cannot simple reduce clone production and all that as it is all we have left after all the non ai builds were destroyed by heavy nerfs!
im all for less illusions believe me. im tired of being a weird duelist petclass as a light armor class!
also mesmer players are quiet skilled as we have to deal with a ton of bugs that are eithere there since launch or there for more than a year, then we had to switch our builds over and over due to nerfs, then our traitlines are all over the place, we got lots of obstructed and los bugs, blink is unreliable, ileap is broken. then also we need to use combos in order to get certain effects which other classes can achive by pressing 1 button. we can not spam autoattacks as they are weak and slow compared to like thief and war. we got long cooldowns too.
so go ahead, make a mesmer and learn to understand how this class works. we cant have illusions out without target unlike mm necro btw

Lowering the illusion count without any other changes would seriously hurt our damage, defence and overall kill any usefulness that remains in this class.

Funnily enough I’d love to have the choice for more direct abilities in exchange for less illusions, but it would require a huge class makeover to be worthwile. Once a few key cooldowns have been blown, you can melt us pretty easily.

This is a targeting and experience of spotting the real one issue – I understand, honestly I do – we’ve all had to learn at some point. As a necro you have all the tools to melt through illusions and the mesmer (discounting moa, hopefully will be fixed for you), so keep at it.

One mesmer alone is fine and finding the real one isn’t rocket science. Two can be very tricky. Three? Goodluck with that.

A mesmer coupled with other pet classes like Spranger and MM Necro is a nightmare. The screen clutter makes you want to pick up your vacuum and use it on your monitor. Stacking pet classes is the problem.

And for those that defend mesmers, yeah mesmers can only generate three clones at a time but once shattered, can generate another set and thus results in more than 3 clones present on the battlefield as long as the shattered clones have not shattered yet. I do not support the suggestion of reducing the number of illusions generated but I think what would be a nice solution is a better targetting system and a way to counter screen clutter.

Gallrvaghn.4921:

One mesmer alone is fine and finding the real one isn’t rocket science. Two can be very tricky. Three? Goodluck with that.

A mesmer coupled with other pet classes like Spranger and MM Necro is a nightmare. The screen clutter makes you want to pick up your vacuum and use it on your monitor. Stacking pet classes is the problem.

And for those that defend mesmers, yeah mesmers can only generate three clones at a time but once shattered, can generate another set and thus results in more than 3 clones present on the battlefield as long as the shattered clones have not shattered yet. I do not support the suggestion of reducing the number of illusions generated but I think what would be a nice solution is a better targetting system and a way to counter screen clutter.

its not like we wanna stack or anything, but our clones will pop up no matter what and phantasms are part of our class too. seriously i would prefer having less illusions and more actual light armor skills like non ai aoe. so if u guys wanna nerf then give us aoe and non ai traits and skills. im myself fed up with being a pet class only now. we used to be much different, but all the non ai builds got nerfed to the ground

Just another 2 cents, only the true Mesmer will get Chaos Armor (a glowy purpley bubble around them). This is another easy way to spot the right one

jonnis.2946:

Just another 2 cents, only the true Mesmer will get Chaos Armor (a glowy purpley bubble around them). This is another easy way to spot the right one

Mesmers can give their clones Chaos Armor through The Prestige on an Ethereal combo field on torch. Any clone made by Illusionary Leap gets it every time they leap through a Ethereal combo field and if any clone made by Illusionary Leap survives till the next cast it will also leap when you cast it again. Phantasmal Swordsman gets it every time they attack too, so if you had an Ethereal field out permanently, it would also have permanent Chaos Armor.

You have nailed it. Mesmers were a mistake to add currently how they are.
They work off the brass ring theory. Phantasm keep repeating their damage, clones if left can be used for shatters. If you purposefully destroy phantasms/clones they cause you damage. If you do destroy the phantasm/clones they get recast easily.

This ultimately means the mesmers source of damage is coming from mechanics that are not the mesmer themselves. If you wanna hurt target A you have to manage target B well. If you going to shut down target B it can damage you, but not target A. While removing target B, target A damages you. Once target A has created target B it then goes on to damage you and Target A now can play active defense whilst their passive attack does their damage for them. It was flawed thinking in my opinion.

The easiest way to find a Mesmer is to look at the 4 enemies while having none of them targeted, then press tab. Tab priority always goes for a real player over NPCs.

Another easy way to find Mesmers is to look for which enemy performs more than one action, Illusions can only perform one action.

Another easy way to find Mesmers is to look for the toon that moves intelligently.

Another easy way to find Mesmers is to use Ctrl targeting to put a big red target over it’s head before it starts summoning Illusions.

Using a combination of these methods will allow you to always quickly identify where the player Mesmer is.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

You have nailed it. Mesmers were a mistake to add currently how they are.
They work off the brass ring theory. Phantasm keep repeating their damage, clones if left can be used for shatters. If you purposefully destroy phantasms/clones they cause you damage. If you do destroy the phantasm/clones they get recast easily.

This ultimately means the mesmers source of damage is coming from mechanics that are not the mesmer themselves. If you wanna hurt target A you have to manage target B well. If you going to shut down target B it can damage you, but not target A. While removing target B, target A damages you. Once target A has created target B it then goes on to damage you and Target A now can play active defense whilst their passive attack does their damage for them. It was flawed thinking in my opinion.

even though not with all points u brought up, i somewhat agree with u. mesmers are not designed correctly. we have to rely on those clones and phnatasms wayyyyy too much. we are light armor class with squshy,buggy pets and 1v1 dueling skills. so why on earth arent we a medium armor class then?
but then again if anet decides to fix our class, then id be happy to give up 50%-70% of the illusion stuff and get some non ai, aoe and multitarget skills. in wvw all those illusions are pretty much useless the way they are as they die too quick and shatters barely happen without ip trait. so believe me im soooo over illusions!

This a troll? or a joke?

1. AoE condi spam while being tanky (which btw and needs to be balanced with what it hard counters AKA mesmer) > Mesmer. Enjoy being a hard counter.

2. No one falls for clones past rank 10. Not only are there tons of tells but most mesmers react as though you already know which one is real to begin with which makes it even easier.

Phantasm and Pu need to be reworked. 4-5k-ish attack is too easy to land. Except gs Izerker, other phantasm skills are poorly telegraphed. Cd on phantasm skills are too forgiving for such big damage. Sure it’s not hard to find the real Mesmer, but when there is one or two phantasm landing 4k dmg every couple a sec each takes 3 hits to clear, and the real Mesmer keeps moving into you blind spot with 0 telegraphed skills which can be spammed if traited, fighting Mesmer becomes a questions of whether you have spammy aoe or someone else as his main target. I find fighting Mesmer very silly. I don’t think anet did a great job on this class

noobftw.9654:

Phantasm and Pu need to be reworked. 4-5k-ish attack is too easy to land. Except gs Izerker, other phantasm skills are poorly telegraphed. Cd on phantasm skills are too forgiving for such big damage. Sure it’s not hard to find the real Mesmer, but when there is one or two phantasm landing 4k dmg every couple a sec each takes 3 hits to clear, and the real Mesmer keeps moving into you blind spot with 0 telegraphed skills which can be spammed if traited, fighting Mesmer becomes a questions of whether you have spammy aoe or someone else as his main target. I find fighting Mesmer very silly. I don’t think anet did a great job on this class

Since warriors, necros, engis and rangers are considered fine i think mesmer is not a big deal atm…

noobftw.9654:

Phantasm and Pu need to be reworked. 4-5k-ish attack is too easy to land. Except gs Izerker, other phantasm skills are poorly telegraphed. Cd on phantasm skills are too forgiving for such big damage. Sure it’s not hard to find the real Mesmer, but when there is one or two phantasm landing 4k dmg every couple a sec each takes 3 hits to clear, and the real Mesmer keeps moving into you blind spot with 0 telegraphed skills which can be spammed if traited, fighting Mesmer becomes a questions of whether you have spammy aoe or someone else as his main target. I find fighting Mesmer very silly. I don’t think anet did a great job on this class

erm 4-5k dmg?what class is this i must play it. seriously izerker can hit u hard,yes,but 20 sec cd and a very obvious animation when casted. i warden is beyond broken atm, it wont even attack. none of my phantasms hit this hard and im power pu. in wvw i cant even reach that high with foodbuffs and all that unless target is pure glass. most numbers i get are around 2.3k-3k
u are venting about pu and phantasm glasscannon in the same go. sry, but there is no phantasm pu build as it is simply impossible to trait for that.

if u guys wanna take away phantasm dmg, then mes needs a buff to their weak weaponskills that are not phantasms. sry u whine about phantasms which can be dodged, but u dont complain about other things in spvp that does way more dg to u(aka 8k backstab thief, eviscerate, 4 autoattacks of a powernecro with dagger, 3 auto attacks with a dagger on thief, 2 autoattack glasscannon pistol thief, 1 meteorshower of an ele, 4 autoattacks from a ranger, 4 autoattacks from a warrior. my aa deals 657,657,1200 how much does yours deal if running power build?

also u cannot simply nerf phantasm dmg as every single build out ther uses phantasms, even the ones not specced for power. so this would affect the none phantasm builds way more than the actual glasscannon phantasm mesmer.

pu is a strong trait, yes, but its defensive and limits u in other areas. i cant trait for shatter and pu for example, i cant trait for pu and phantasm either. both power pu and condi pu are 20/20/30/0/0 as u want that torch cleansing and lower cd, also if u check the other stealth abilities, check their cooldown again. yes, the only stealth that recharges quickly when traited is the torch one.

so if u wanna make great use of pu, then u need 20 in the first traitline, if u wanted(clone on dodge) u need 20 in second traitline and pu is 30 on 3rd traitline.

arenanet plz add tournament games played to avatar and dont allow people with lower than 250 games played in this forum anymore

seriously just read this tread full with wvw and hotjoin bullkitten

Romek.4201:

arenanet plz add tournament games played to avatar and dont allow people with lower than 250 games played in this forum anymore

seriously just read this tread full with wvw and hotjoin bullkitten

At least try to help/educate the OP.

Mesmer is an arguably bad designed class just in terms of the clutter it might add to a fight.

IMHO shatter/lockdown builds are far from OP and, despite the clutter, offer a quite interesting gameplay.
Overhauling ranger (making Spirit builds subpar to, idk, traps or power specs) and nerfing necro minions (even if not competitive at all, they just have too much presence on SoloQ where rotations are more complicated and close defenders tend to be much more static) would be a far better approach for handling clutter issues.
The very nature of the class shourd force the balance team, however, to work around a really thin line (which we are currently quite a bit far from) where no more than a single mesmer should be viable for a good team composition.

Phantasm builds are probably in a sweetspot now, providing an easier to play but hardly competitive build for newcomers
PU mesmers, on the other hand, should probably be looked at if different game modes are likely to be released.

Purplesilver.5409:

/mad necro

Obvious troll.

One thing i hate in spvp – more than 2 mesmers in 1 place. And god help if all are asuras ( and if you somehow cleave those clones).
1 game in hotjoin enemy had 4 mesmers, 3 rangers and engi – poor guy was jumped so much he ragequit, while sea of clones kittened the rest of the people.
But its fine, part of the game

Just learn to find the real one and the fights become entirely different, thats what I had to do when i started the game. Making one and testing the abilities they have on the target dummies is probably another good way to see what they do. Once you figure it out youl find wars/thieves/engies are much more annoying to fight

Well as long as you have a decent computer and dont get seizures from too many effects on screen at once, though if you do then you shouldnt be in this game to begin with.

Another thread that is missleading for balancing. Please learn the game. Everybody had problems with mesmer back in the days when they just started playing and were unexperienced. Invest time into the game before you start posting such things.

Thank you!

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Another thread that is missleading for balancing. Please learn the game. Everybody had problems with mesmer back in the days when they just started playing and were unexperienced. Invest time into the game before you start posting such things.

Thank you!

I remember “They have clones op nerf asap” first month spvp forum posts…more than one year and nabs still complaining bout this crap, i seriusly think there’s a really big problem with this pvp community if ppl still can’t spot the real mesmer…for god’s sake i can target the real one fighting my mates at close while i’m at clocktower with guardian, dunno wtf is wrong with some ppl here…mesmer op..oh god…

I can’t tell if the OP is being serious, or trolling… Either way, was a funny read.

Romek.4201:

arenanet plz add tournament games played to avatar and dont allow people with lower than 250 games played in this forum anymore

seriously just read this tread full with wvw and hotjoin bullkitten

dude, u got wannabe elitist issues! we are explaining things to the op that was whining about mesmer skills without knowing anything about this class. u think u are soo much better than everyone becausseeee….? let me guess u main a thief. ranks mean absolutely nothing. we all have the right to discuss, we dont need a rank for that. so might wanna resize that giant chip on your shoulder!
and instead of just insulting everyone with your false pride, u might wanna at least try to contribute to the actual discussion. i really could care less about your rank, i care about this discussion.

selan.8354:

Romek.4201:

arenanet plz add tournament games played to avatar and dont allow people with lower than 250 games played in this forum anymore

seriously just read this tread full with wvw and hotjoin bullkitten

dude, u got wannabe elitist issues! we are explaining things to the op that was whining about mesmer skills without knowing anything about this class. u think u are soo much better than everyone becausseeee….? let me guess u main a thief. ranks mean absolutely nothing. we all have the right to discuss, we dont need a rank for that. so might wanna resize that giant chip on your shoulder!
and instead of just insulting everyone with your false pride, u might wanna at least try to contribute to the actual discussion. i really could care less about your rank, i care about this discussion.

Nothing to do with elitism here. It’s the same with “first think, then speak”. I mean nobody is a pro from the start and understands everything. I just don’t get why ppl come here on the forums with experience around 10-30 matches and start to complain about something, they don’t even understand. It’s irrational and is missleading A-Net on balancing properly.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

You have nailed it. Mesmers were a mistake to add currently how they are.
They work off the brass ring theory. Phantasm keep repeating their damage, clones if left can be used for shatters. If you purposefully destroy phantasms/clones they cause you damage. If you do destroy the phantasm/clones they get recast easily.

This ultimately means the mesmers source of damage is coming from mechanics that are not the mesmer themselves. If you wanna hurt target A you have to manage target B well. If you going to shut down target B it can damage you, but not target A. While removing target B, target A damages you. Once target A has created target B it then goes on to damage you and Target A now can play active defense whilst their passive attack does their damage for them. It was flawed thinking in my opinion.

Dude, can i plz haz dat build yo!!!
Dat build must own dem nubs in dat face, 360 no-scope style. link dat build editor and put me on trak 2 be #1 mesmur universe.

o wait, what if you spit in the direction of the real mesmer? dat distortion OP
NERF NERF NERF

they codi cleanze for dayz, gots all that armur and health, and they dont even do there own damage, den they got that distortionz. dey be like da terminator of GW2 with all dat illusion health and if u manage 2 killz da clones, BAM…. your insta-dead.

Purplesilver.5409:

A already clustered pvp with too many spell effects dont need more comfusion – mesmers. Ive really tried to get into this extremely fast paced, non-tactical pvp, and it IS actually quite enjoyable at times. But as soon as that class appears you completely lose control over the situation whatsoever. Mesmers are OP due to the fact that people cant find the real one, thus the mesmer will take no damage. I understand the concept of this class and its a really cool idea, but you NEED to reduce the number of clones/phantasms it can have at one point. Its inhuman to be able to keep track of just one mesmer, that plus guardians/warriors/elementalists etc. bashing you down in no time just makes anyone wanna ragequit. And even when theyre down, the kitteng teleport around and guess what, CREATE MORE CLONES. Like i said, really cool i dea! but the number of illusions is just out of hand.

/mad necro

Here is a hint for the future. WHEN posting on a forum dedicated to pvp (this actually goes for every forum, but the pvp crowd usually is most “elitist”). Make sure you actually have a basic understanding of what you are writing about. Otherwise you are making yourself look like an i***t.

Then again if you only want to entertain or troll, keep posting the way you did right now. Spot on.