Guild Wars 2

so now everyone visits metabattle and get ready op builds , people ended up playing exactly the same traits and skills , for example 95% of guardians are medi guards.
is arenanet thinking of countering this issue in any way so we could have more build diversity?
i really hope new expansion fixes a part of this

the joke is, since you get locked into 3 traits it seems like there will be even less diversity lol

i rather have bad people playing effective builds than bad players playing random builds.

If it wasn’t metabattle, it would be another site.

The only thing Anet can do is buffing builds that noone use, to encourage people to play them. They seem to have done it with the trait revamp for certain professions (lockdown mesmer for example). However, it’s too soon to tell if it will really work.

It’s not the people who run metabattle’s fault there are so few effective builds.

Meta battle isn’t the issue. Let’s look at guardian since that the class that you mentioned.

Currently most guardians are meditation, but why?

Bunker Guardian: Great at holding nodes / can’t kill kitten. In a meta that favors mobility and quickly winning skirmishes, bunker guardian falls behind! They are slow and can hardly do more damage than a healing signet regenerates passively.

Condi Guardian: Great 1v1 potential, kinda squishy, TERRIBLE cleave, not great in a team fight. Not only that, but burn is guardians source of damage in this build. With a lack of condies to cover burn, it is easily cleansed.

Hammer/Staff DPS: This was at once a popular build. However, it lacks condi cleanse and it’s sustain ( AH) only really exist during team fights. 1v1 it’s very easy to kill. Plus it’s DPS is “bruiser” like, without the sustain of a bruiser.

Spirit Guardian: LOL

Medi Guardian: DPS? Check Sustain? Check Condi Clease? Check
-Cleave? Check Team Support? Check

After looking at those option, would you rather take the build that offers it all or the ones that fall behind in different areas?

I think the choice would be obvious.

Dramen Maidria.1034:

It’s not the people who run metabattle’s fault there are so few effective builds.

Dramen Maidria.1034:

It’s not the people who run metabattle’s fault there are so few effective builds.

Dramen Maidria.1034:

It’s not the people who run metabattle’s fault there are so few effective builds.

well im not saying the site is bad but people dont play as the want this days they go meta to counter meta and i find this a bit boring
why bother figuring out a build when there is the best build already available

Making builds and being able to play them effectively are two rather distinct skills.

This is 2015, not 1995. You really can’t expect people not to share every little piece of information about a game. (Anet generally encourages it, with features like the integrated wiki.)

Just because someone pulled a build from Metabattle doesn’t mean they’ll be able to do well with it. While the topmost builds are generally designed to cover for small mistakes with power/flexibility/sustain, a lot of them do rely on learning both specific combos/rotations and carefully marshaling your resources. Quite a few Metabattle builds still make it easy to fall on your face if you don’t know what you’re doing and just mash buttons on cooldown.

jihm.2315:

so now everyone visits metabattle and get ready op builds , people ended up playing exactly the same traits and skills , for example 95% of guardians are medi guards.
is arenanet thinking of countering this issue in any way so we could have more build diversity?
i really hope new expansion fixes a part of this

you hope the new expansion fixes humankind’s ability to spread information between each other? in this case, builds?

am I the only one thinking the OP’s post is completely insane?

maha.7902:

jihm.2315:

so now everyone visits metabattle and get ready op builds , people ended up playing exactly the same traits and skills , for example 95% of guardians are medi guards.
is arenanet thinking of countering this issue in any way so we could have more build diversity?
i really hope new expansion fixes a part of this

you hope the new expansion fixes humankind’s ability to spread information between each other? in this case, builds?

am I the only one thinking the OP’s post is completely insane?

if wanting more diverse and interesting game sounds insane to you have it your own way

The only way to fix this issue is for the game to genuinely give you meaningful choices on each class instead of a bunch of noob traps in the form of “build choice”.

That said, there are a few builds that are actually kinda decent, just not good at the Conquest gamemode. Due to the nature of the gamemode it will always favor certain builds over others, I don’t think that can really be changed.

There needs to be more game modes for more builds to be viable, things like Capture the flag, etc.

This post is literally stupid . Do you realize that humans have a brain and can see by themselves that “X” build is trash and “Y” build is good?

Obviously people are going to use the most effective builds. You should blame anet for the poor build diversity, not a site that actually HELPS people to find something that works.

Dramen Maidria.1034:

It’s not the people who run metabattle’s fault there are so few effective builds.

There are plenty of effective builds. Its just that the players are not effective.

maha.7902:

jihm.2315:

so now everyone visits metabattle and get ready op builds , people ended up playing exactly the same traits and skills , for example 95% of guardians are medi guards.
is arenanet thinking of countering this issue in any way so we could have more build diversity?
i really hope new expansion fixes a part of this

you hope the new expansion fixes humankind’s ability to spread information between each other? in this case, builds?

am I the only one thinking the OP’s post is completely insane?

It’s cray.

yolo swaggins.2570:

Dramen Maidria.1034:

It’s not the people who run metabattle’s fault there are so few effective builds.

There are plenty of effective builds. Its just that the players are not effective.

Exactly. I’ve seen people use different builds. I admit when I first started playing GW2 a little over a year ago I went with the metabuild for my favored profession but since then have tweaked and refined it to suit me. I play a thief and I’m sure people would call me crazy for saying I think Infil Sig is a waste of a utility skill.

Since playing more I haven’t even looked at meta when making builds for other professions. I just look at the traits and stuff and start building what I want. Maybe it matches some meta closely or not Most people that are new do go for meta builds because they are new and need advice.

Then there are those who use them and then complain because they couldn’t just mash buttons and win as easily as some Vet on a youtube video. While others keep hammering away, get experience and keep that exact build or change them up to suit their playstyle.

I think it’s great. It gives new players a chance and helps them figure things out. When I started pvp a few months ago I had no idea what was going on. I was playing the default builds and not understanding what’s going on. I found metabattle and with the explanations I learned a lot about the builds and how they work. It made me look at things differently. I don’t play exclusively the builds on there. I take things and tweak them to how I like and feel more comfortable with and experiment. It gives me a good base to jump off of.

I like it, it helps new players find something that works and assists in their learning of the builds.

the builds are not ‘OP’ or cheese, they are just good strong builds. there are good builds outside of meta, but most players are just not good enough to make and play them. every game with builds has builds on the internet, and if there is pvp there will be meta builds. its good, as it means less noobs run dumb builds.

Cynz.9437:

the joke is, since you get locked into 3 traits it seems like there will be even less diversity lol

Depends on the class. Some classes have amazing synergy all over the place, others do not. With the New specialization and Core specs, the Necro has gone from having a few builds to having too many.

New players should play with builds shown on that website, experienced players they can come up with their own builds, is what mettabattle does anyway copy builds from top streamers. Hammer medi guardian is a good example not many people even knew it existed until recently, only a small portion new the potential it had while mettabattle was behind with their bunker guardian only way. Experienced players create and execute new metas, while the casual players stick to what already currently works.

First of all, people always browsed for optimal builds… It was usually either people going to streams, or just looking at the list that Django made

Second of all – it is hilarious when people pick up a build and learn about 1 or 2 combos… It is so cute to see all D/P Thieves spamming the same rotation

Third bonus; most effective Thief build in solo-play seems to be venom share, as I have rarely see it being countered

jihm.2315:

is arenanet thinking of countering this issue in any way so we could have more build diversity?
i really hope new expansion fixes a part of this

I think that the Drennon post summarizes perfectly the problem. And I don’t think that the expansion will “fix” it, due the new trait system will be A LOT more simplistic, disabling room for innovation.

Currently the real problems isn’t build variety: you have tons of builds to make; the problem is the lack of viability for most of the builds you can create, due the skills are poorly balanced.

With the new trait system will be a lot less builds available, so if some of them are prevalent it will be even more easy to find out.

Jekkt.6045:

i rather have bad people playing effective builds than bad players playing random builds.

Pretty much this.

Those builds work and are a great starting point. You can start changing stuff around once you have a clue about what works and what doesn’t, what matters in conquest and what is completely useless.

And just remember turret engi. It was nowhere near Meta status on Metabattle and yet almost every other engi was running it. The issue is in the game, not some external site.

I wish I had seen this post when It was current.

Anyway… I agree to an extent. I mean it’s just a sign of the times, the world we live in, in 2015 where teenagers have 6 second attention spans. I know people that actually think Reading and Writing are work…Not just kids either, this new way of thinking which is essentially letting someone else think for you, seems to have no age, race, or sex prejudice. Probably half the People in the United States have no attention spans anymore, are lazy, and don’t even make their gaming experiences unique, because I guess it’s just to hard to think… Most people can’t even read and comprehend more than 1 sentence these days, and if you write a post this long people call it a “Wall” of text. You can thank the abundance of over stimulated, audio and video media that is constantly being shoved in our faces, I mean kids listening to music, while instagramming, wathing TV, and playing a game all at once. Crazy…

But back to GW2, I am surprised at how many people do not even know what their traits actually do (especially the minor ones). Meta Battle actually had a site towards the end of GW1, so that downfall began some time ago. Some of the best gaming experiences in any game, are when no one knows anything. Back before youtube videos telling you how to do everything, games were much more satisfying. But this is a choice, a choice people do not have to make, just like back in the 90’s there were people that bought cheat guides and people that did not. Part of the fun for some of us was figuring stuff out for yourself.

I remember in the early days of GW1 when no one knew anything, and their were so many possible skill combinations there were some builds, and amazing ideas. Remember how insanely hard the Crystal Desert trial were? Remember people in game talking about strategies, sharing ideas, and forming parties? Now people just YouTube it… Still it is a choice, so I think people like us just need to seek out like minded people.

If someone says it’s Meta everyone is like : “OH ITS META! That means it’s the best and there is no reason to build anything else!” but truthfully I think that is only half of the community. I play crazy builds and make them work, I even make videos about them and get some great feedback, and my videos are always about encouraging people to just use their brain, and try new things, because who are these guys at Meta battle anyway? Also have you noticed how often the Meta status changes lately? Clearly these builds are not better than any build you put some time and effort into building yourself. People just need to care again, and stop being lazy.

Great post, glad to see there are some people out there that still have a brain. ~Undead Aaron on YouTube.

AaronWinterhalter.9425:

I wish I had seen this post when It was current.

Anyway… I agree to an extent. I mean it’s just a sign of the times, the world we live in, in 2015 where teenagers have 6 second attention spans. I know people that actually think Reading and Writing are work…Not just kids either, this new way of thinking which is essentially letting someone else think for you, seems to have no age, race, or sex prejudice. Probably half the People in the United States have no attention spans anymore, are lazy, and don’t even make their gaming experiences unique, because I guess it’s just to hard to think… Most people can’t even read and comprehend more than 1 sentence these days, and if you write a post this long people call it a “Wall” of text. You can thank the abundance of over stimulated, audio and video media that is constantly being shoved in our faces, I mean kids listening to music, while instagramming, wathing TV, and playing a game all at once. Crazy…

But back to GW2, I am surprised at how many people do not even know what their traits actually do (especially the minor ones). Meta Battle actually had a site towards the end of GW1, so that downfall began some time ago. Some of the best gaming experiences in any game, are when no one knows anything. Back before youtube videos telling you how to do everything, games were much more satisfying. But this is a choice, a choice people do not have to make, just like back in the 90’s there were people that bought cheat guides and people that did not. Part of the fun for some of us was figuring stuff out for yourself.

I remember in the early days of GW1 when no one knew anything, and their were so many possible skill combinations there were some builds, and amazing ideas. Remember how insanely hard the Crystal Desert trial were? Remember people in game talking about strategies, sharing ideas, and forming parties? Now people just YouTube it… Still it is a choice, so I think people like us just need to seek out like minded people.

If someone says it’s Meta everyone is like : “OH ITS META! That means it’s the best and there is no reason to build anything else!” but truthfully I think that is only half of the community. I play crazy builds and make them work, I even make videos about them and get some great feedback, and my videos are always about encouraging people to just use their brain, and try new things, because who are these guys at Meta battle anyway? Also have you noticed how often the Meta status changes lately? Clearly these builds are not better than any build you put some time and effort into building yourself. People just need to care again, and stop being lazy.

Great post, glad to see there are some people out there that still have a brain. ~Undead Aaron on YouTube.

This is obviously a sarcastic question, but did you seriously just criticize whole generations for laziness, lack of attention, and use of YouTube with your own poor grammar and spelling, then finish with a YouTube plug?

Disregarding your rant, yes Metabattle does present a problem for people who like to take the easy way out. Sometimes there are immature people who will criticize others for not using a “Meta” build, it also lets people find viable builds who want to be effective but are incapable of figuring out themselves. It’s also good for jokes like the meta^2 builds during the Ele reign.

AaronWinterhalter.9425:

I mean it’s just a sign of the times, the world we live in, in 2015 where teenagers have 6 second attention spans.

You necro’d a thread to make a “kids these days” angry-old-man rant.

Literally every generation thinks the next generation is worse than their own. Socrates was quoted saying, “The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise.”

The generation before yours said the same thing about your generation, and the generation before them said the same about them.

You’re just continuing the same cycle of generational elitism that isn’t generational at all, but is actually entirely based on age and maturity.

Woooooooooooooooooh the necro. You’re taking your class too seriously man.

Koviko.3248:

AaronWinterhalter.9425:

I mean it’s just a sign of the times, the world we live in, in 2015 where teenagers have 6 second attention spans.

You necro’d a thread to make a “kids these days” angry-old-man rant.

Literally every generation thinks the next generation is worse than their own. Socrates was quoted saying, “The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise.”

The generation before yours said the same thing about your generation, and the generation before them said the same about them.

You’re just continuing the same cycle of generational elitism that isn’t generational at all, but is actually entirely based on age and maturity.

I was literally just messaged this in skype:

Metabattle is a joke and most of these builds are not even good, i laugh at all the idiots who think metabattle is good rofl

You have to realize that all these builds were not only made by other people (who are flawed) but also copied and put there by other people so by no means are they flawless or perfect.

The most hilarious part is when a guy sees me before the game starts and starts insulting and flaming me for not running a “meta build” and doesn’t even wait to see my results instead he just flames me. I’ve tried almost all the meta builds and they end up being pretty crap in general and very focused around a specific thing i don’t want to be focused around.

.. also.. few months ago when i played i ran my own builds on like 3 of my classes and when i came back few months after they were all in the meta and some were not even copied properly, so funny

its a good site for reference and for ideas but not to get obsessed over it and take it too serious

incisorr.9502:

its a good site for reference and for ideas but not to get obsessed over it and take it too serious

This should have been your entire post.

This exists in literally every game which have some sort of character “build”.

Do you think people just won’t try to optimize their chances to win if possible or something?

Okay from my perspective:

In my opinion is Metabattle a site that is not good for the community. Let me explain:
As a new player : I often see new people getting redicted to metabattle when they ask a question about a build. New players get very easily locked in this ‘meta’ and thus do not discover everything a class has to offer.
As a veteran : As a veteran using Meta builds is in my opinion just stupidity. Most metabuilds can be outshined by other builds, or at least little changes to the build to make it better. The metabuilds are generally easy to play builds with high effectiveness. However there are loads of builds out there that are even more effective but need more skill. Trying your own builds improves your skill much more and allowes you to play and test every single bit of the class. Metaplayers…well they just progress there skill much slower.

However! I do acknowledge there is no reason to ‘demonstrate’ against a site like this. As mentioned multiple times above it is a matter of sharing builds and playing whatever you want. So do not take this post as a thread of negative thing about metabattle. It is just an opinion and I respect all opinions of those who actually like metabattle.

With love,
Fvux.

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

There needs to be more game modes for more builds to be viable, things like Capture the flag, etc.

We kind of do already in the form of spirit watch. However, look how many people post about how they hate it because its a “gimmick”

Any time anet adds something different, it causes an uproar, regardless of how awesome it is. This is because any map that isnt foefire tends to make peoples metabuilder build less effective, so people hate them. People always ask for these new things, but then go nuts when they get them.

I honestly think anet should just say screw it. Add Sprit Watch and skyhammer to ranked. Add 2 more deathmatch maps to ranked also. Maybe a few more unique maps like SW/SH. They should also add a build saver so you can switch builds easier. This would eliminate certain builds being useless in certain matches, as you could just switch to a more effective build before the match starts.

Zanther Deathbringer.4762:

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

There needs to be more game modes for more builds to be viable, things like Capture the flag, etc.

We kind of do already in the form of spirit watch. However, look how many people post about how they hate it because its a “gimmick”

Any time anet adds something different, it causes an uproar, regardless of how awesome it is. This is because any map that isnt foefire tends to make peoples metabuilder build less effective, so people hate them. People always ask for these new things, but then go nuts when they get them.

I honestly think anet should just say screw it. Add Sprit Watch and skyhammer to ranked. Add 2 more deathmatch maps to ranked also. Maybe a few more unique maps like SW/SH. They should also add a build saver so you can switch builds easier. This would eliminate certain builds being useless in certain matches, as you could just switch to a more effective build before the match starts.

I’m not a fan of spirit watch but it’s better than skyhammer. Skyhammer is the real gimmick. The entire map. Pushing someone over the edge shouldn’t be a strategy you design for. Skyhammer should be deleted period.

Deathmatch if expanded on should have a checkbox much the same as stronghold.

Shouldn’t it be an advantage to know what 95% of people would be running on said class in PvP?

I guess if you’re really into PvP theory crafting specific counters to these 1/2 builds could be fun?

I wonder why dps guardians have been using medis only since they were buffed way back when.

Is it because metabattle? Or because we have no other choice.

Zanther Deathbringer.4762:

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

There needs to be more game modes for more builds to be viable, things like Capture the flag, etc.

We kind of do already in the form of spirit watch. However, look how many people post about how they hate it because its a “gimmick”

Any time anet adds something different, it causes an uproar, regardless of how awesome it is. This is because any map that isnt foefire tends to make peoples metabuilder build less effective, so people hate them. People always ask for these new things, but then go nuts when they get them.

I honestly think anet should just say screw it. Add Sprit Watch and skyhammer to ranked. Add 2 more deathmatch maps to ranked also. Maybe a few more unique maps like SW/SH. They should also add a build saver so you can switch builds easier. This would eliminate certain builds being useless in certain matches, as you could just switch to a more effective build before the match starts.

^This. I think skyhammer is fun and all I need to do is make a few changes to my build during the prematch and change my play style up depending where I am on the map and what class I am fighting. As a thief I bring scorpion wire and I’ll prioritize stealing from a necro and changing to the grand master trait that allows me to steal an item twice.

If an engy stands on a panel and then goes behind while it gets destroyed I should get ready to dodge or get stability. It calls for different strategy. I can easily call a bunker gimmicky because I can’t do the standard rotation to kill one.

I also sometimes get hate or the good old: “Guaranteed Loss” right at the start of the game, when I try and inform people of my build and playstyle so that we can work together better. So much lol. I think meta battle is useful for those who are new to get a working build.

(PvP post mostly)

The problem with metabattle is that it does not take into account concepts like:

• skill cap/ceiling
• MMR
• personal preference
• counters and synergy

Basically a meta build is “meta” only in a meta-team and against another meta-team, all of this at high MMR. Some builds are more effective for less experienced players. Some builds would be better to adapt to your or the enemy team composition. And some builds just are more fun for you than others.

There are some other websites with variety of builds suggested, with explanation, role, counters etc… Those allow the users to pick and try, get a feel of the different playstyles before making his own build. I believe that is the ideal way to get started.
The problem is that those websites are not as straightforward because of the jungle of builds, many of them not relevant anymore (balance patches). It is just easier to go to metabattle and pick the number one.

But I do believe that many still play their own builds, especially after an update like the expansion. At the end, everyone should play as they want. If people don’t feel for theory crafting and prefer just mindlessly playing, I don’t see what’s wrong with that. I personally prefer playing my own builds, though I still like to have a look at metabattle and I sometimes play the metabattle build out of the box (especially on classes I don’t master much).