Guild Wars 2

how are guards not nerfed by now they are by far the most op class in pvp , not to mention it takes 0 skill to teleport to someone and spam traps while the other guy has to dance around them , traps are op , guard block is op , nerf this class to hell please.

o and im in diamond and every match i get 4 guards minimal.

Get a herald or warrior or druid. Smack guardians around because most are helltrash.

I will agree though that fighting them, and their general “I’m immune to damage, conditions, being touched and not teleporting to you randomly but I still can put out the most damage in the game.” is ridiculous. They need to lose well over half of their CC, especially on traps, have their invulns cut back and lose trap damage. They should not be able to deny a point just by smacking their keyboard on it.

afrocrusade.4253:

have their invulns cut back .

lol

to what, from 3 seconds to 1 second?

lol

Kuya.6495:

afrocrusade.4253:

have their invulns cut back .

lol

to what, from 3 seconds to 1 second?

lol

And conditoins still ticking while they use RF.

Guys nerf blocks on guard, that would kill the class, It would be the same as take away all stealth and desingage skills from thiefs.

But traps can be nerfed, make CD only after trap being hitted.

i just hate that instant spear..

Unblockable? Ok i get that because of reflect problems (well its not really a projectile)
Pull? sure its because guardians are slow (well used to.. In combat teleport is fast)
Pierce? well sure why not its HOT so it should be good lol :-)

But its so kitten fast! i have to do lucky dodge to counter it.

All HOT stuff is crazy compared to Core stuff.. but atleast make it somewhat counterable… All Anet does is:

Put blind on it
Put unblockable on it
Put pierce on everything
Put random stuff on it to make it more cool
Put nice animation to it to make more cluster kitten
Put more dmg on it because why not..

Its getting old i know.. :-P

Actually you know what, put Renewed focus to 1 second. Might help me hold a point better and get back to using my virtues faster.

DH does not need a nerf.

Had a match earlier where this necro would sit outside the point trying to hit me with scepter and his staff. Let me get the cap every time with little effort. I think he thought i was a full trapper guardian cause he refused to get close to me, even though i was running bunker/support.

I imagine in his mind, i was a full trapper guardian with infinite blocks, infinite healing and infinite cleanse.

i just hate how they can spam daze, especialy in team fights, exactly like druid. Would be fine if they had only that CC, but they have more.
Piercing Light must be reworked, without that perma daze DH defence won’t be so much impenetrable.

I think people are still traumatized from S1 traps. The traps really aren’t an issue. The best ones are CC and really only work well when skillfully used. The strongest builds aren’t trap based. Probably is just class envy that guardian has too much “balance” and can put together a couple viable builds in low to mid+ tier play.

Aeolus.3615:

Kuya.6495:

afrocrusade.4253:

have their invulns cut back .

lol

to what, from 3 seconds to 1 second?

lol

And conditoins still ticking while they use RF.

Guys nerf blocks on guard, that would kill the class, It would be the same as take away all stealth and desingage skills from thiefs.

But traps can be nerfed, make CD only after trap being hitted.

The only stealth ive run in Pvp in all 4 seasons was from CND, stealth is useless as a defensive mechanic, so technically they already removed that from thieves. As for disengaging i point you to the random Activation time’s they added, where not quite there yet but soon™

1 dodge eliminates traps…why its so hard to bind dodge key?

Ragnarox.9601:

1 dodge eliminates traps…why its so hard to bind dodge key?

1 dodge doesn’t eliminate a trap especially in a game where standing on point is required, dodging only helps activate without taking the activation daze and initial damage.

MarkoNS.3261:

how are guards not nerfed by now they are by far the most op class in pvp , not to mention it takes 0 skill to teleport to someone and spam traps while the other guy has to dance around them , traps are op , guard block is op , nerf this class to hell please.

…ur playing thief or?
Traps are far from OP they’re just a noobkiller
And blocks are fine nothing has changed…

Traps are instant and to be used like attacks. They can hit on use or hit over duration which makes them strong. People who say 1 dodge nullifies traps don’t understand how to play guardian. A good guardian does not place a trap waiting for someone to walk over it. They use the traps as interrupts/ damage when your not dodging. They can do this because traps have no cast time. With out a cast time you cannot react to a guardian using the trap. All you can do is hope he is new to DH and placed a trap away from you waiting for you to walk over it. Also if you dodge a trap it is likely you won’t dodge twice in a row. Given that he will probably use the fast and unblock-able f1 and suck you back in.

I have been playing allot of DH this season because they equal free win streaks often.

Kuya.6495:

afrocrusade.4253:

have their invulns cut back .

lol

to what, from 3 seconds to 1 second?

lol

I actually wouldn’t mind that, far too often I die from condi ticks while in RF channel, cutting down the channeling by 2 secs might actually end up being a buff.

Its Anet philosophy, make changes to the game and return 6 months later to see if it worked.

In their post when the season started, the removal of amulets, buffs and nerfs were put in place to increase the speed of game play. At this they have failed.

What im sure they know and we know is that every HOT build was straight boon/damage/healing/support garbage. The spec lines with weapon combinations gave so much with no negative.

Anet has made warrior, thief, guardian and now ele useless in PvP leagues S1-S4 and its 100% due to the fact they have no idea how to balance the classes. I bet that if they nerf DH it will not be usable like it was in S2-3. Just like they over buffed warrior after it being useless in S1-2.

So right now Anet is some what watching reddit mostly not. Probably preparing for living story and some raid changes. They will wait after the league finals to make some small changes that all in all wont help game play but simply change it.

Its like south park where everyone drives smart cars and gives each other high fives screaming “thanks” and Anet says job well done crew.

Honestly I think one of the fairer nerfs would be to make the traps blockable. A lot of times where the mid fight happens you have stability up and you just get perma disabled by a chain of traps from like 3 guardians (upper ruby here and I see 2-3 guards every game on both teams). There is so much you can do when you are fighting on a point where you cannot dodge into a trap to disarm it. When random traps from 3 guardians just drop mid fight it’s really ridiculous how much CC they have that goes through block and stability (strips stability super fast that you just get dazed anyways).

Oh Snapalope.1378:

Honestly I think one of the fairer nerfs would be to make the traps blockable. A lot of times where the mid fight happens you have stability up and you just get perma disabled by a chain of traps from like 3 guardians (upper ruby here and I see 2-3 guards every game on both teams). There is so much you can do when you are fighting on a point where you cannot dodge into a trap to disarm it. When random traps from 3 guardians just drop mid fight it’s really ridiculous how much CC they have that goes through block and stability (strips stability super fast that you just get dazed anyways).

you do realize only 1 trap is unblockable and the cc trait is blockable…?

again, at least learn what you’re complaining about before you complain.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Ragnarox.9601:

1 dodge eliminates traps…why its so hard to bind dodge key?

1 dodge doesn’t eliminate a trap especially in a game where standing on point is required, dodging only helps activate without taking the activation daze and initial damage.

wtf..dodge eliminates everything. Only PoB is still active cause its aoe whirlwind attack.

Standing on a point gives you nothing if both of you are inside, you dont decap anything….you should already know that….if you are pvp player.

Thats the problem of pvp, ppl are rushing into DH traps and die and yelling NERF NERF but they don’t know fundamentals of PVP at all (capping and decapping a point).

Kuya.6495:

Actually you know what, put Renewed focus to 1 second. Might help me hold a point better and get back to using my virtues faster.

you must be absolutely terrible at this game if you suck with a gaurdian.

Faux Play.6104:

I think people are still traumatized from S1 traps. The traps really aren’t an issue. The best ones are CC and really only work well when skillfully used. The strongest builds aren’t trap based. Probably is just class envy that guardian has too much “balance” and can put together a couple viable builds in low to mid+ tier play.

if you think guard is a “balanced” class you are just delusional.

Ragnarox.9601:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Ragnarox.9601:

1 dodge eliminates traps…why its so hard to bind dodge key?

1 dodge doesn’t eliminate a trap especially in a game where standing on point is required, dodging only helps activate without taking the activation daze and initial damage.

wtf..dodge eliminates everything. Only PoB is still active cause its aoe whirlwind attack.

Standing on a point gives you nothing if both of you are inside, you dont decap anything….you should already know that….if you are pvp player.

Thats the problem of pvp, ppl are rushing into DH traps and die and yelling NERF NERF but they don’t know fundamentals of PVP at all (capping and decapping a point).

so youve never fought on a neutralized point to keep them from capping it? wow….

MarkoNS.3261:

if you think guard is a “balanced” class you are just delusional.

You’re being emotional about it, if you really broke down what it brings to the table, you’ll find it’s not overtuned.

Dragonhunter with the Longbow build has reasonable teamfighting and small scale capabilities, tends to be advantaged in any sized fights in the presence of enemy Mesmers, Thieves, Warriors, and Necros

Tends to do much worse in any sized fights in the presence of Retribution Revs, Scrappers, Druids, and Eles.

The symbol build is just an overly selfish version of Druid/Scrapper that trades in a few clutch abilities in favor of highly avoidable symbol spam – only tactical use being for slowly pushing someone off & full capping a point in a 1v1

Dragonhunter is not even close to game breaking if players, on average, know when to back off, or press their defensive buttons at the right times. The players who are convinced Dragonhunter is OP are not being deceptive, just not at all realizing how to disrupt the Dragonhunter’s one-trick-pony burst combo.

It goes a bit like this:

• Cast True Shot
• Judge’s Intervention right before firing the True Shot
• Test of Faith Immediately
• Deflecting Shot knockback through Test of Faith
• Spear of Justice while they’re knocked back by Deflecting Shot
• Spear of Justice again to pull through Test of Faith

So here’s what you do: Activate stability/invuln at any time, or dodge out of Test of Faith before he positions his Deflecting Shot on you.

It’s a long combo to land a kill on somebody, honestly, Condi Engi burst, Thief Bursts, Invo Rev bursts, Mesmer Moa&Burst, these are much more lethal and more difficult to disrupt than the Dragonhunter’s. Dragonhunter will obliterate the sizable amount of players who haven’t mastered the ‘in and out’ active positioning PvP playstyle in GW2, and won’t instantly die like these same individuals, because the Guardian just presses cooldowns back to back instead of relying on positioning.

Ragnarox.9601:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Ragnarox.9601:

1 dodge eliminates traps…why its so hard to bind dodge key?

1 dodge doesn’t eliminate a trap especially in a game where standing on point is required, dodging only helps activate without taking the activation daze and initial damage.

wtf..dodge eliminates everything. Only PoB is still active cause its aoe whirlwind attack.

Standing on a point gives you nothing if both of you are inside, you dont decap anything….you should already know that….if you are pvp player.

Thats the problem of pvp, ppl are rushing into DH traps and die and yelling NERF NERF but they don’t know fundamentals of PVP at all (capping and decapping a point).

Let’s break this down, Test of Faith still persists even if you dodge through which will Proc on Shield 5 throwing you out of it and F1 pulling you in, on top of if you have to attempt to kite do to more Aoe on point, and I guess you have never had to contest a neutral point, which is something that does need to happen.

Again initially I was just stating that dodging doesn’t nuertralize DH traps since they persist, yes you can avoid the damage.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Ragnarox.9601:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Ragnarox.9601:

1 dodge eliminates traps…why its so hard to bind dodge key?

1 dodge doesn’t eliminate a trap especially in a game where standing on point is required, dodging only helps activate without taking the activation daze and initial damage.

wtf..dodge eliminates everything. Only PoB is still active cause its aoe whirlwind attack.

Standing on a point gives you nothing if both of you are inside, you dont decap anything….you should already know that….if you are pvp player.

Thats the problem of pvp, ppl are rushing into DH traps and die and yelling NERF NERF but they don’t know fundamentals of PVP at all (capping and decapping a point).

Let’s break this down, Test of Faith still persists even if you dodge through which will Proc on Shield 5 throwing you out of it and F1 pulling you in, on top of if you have to attempt to kite do to more Aoe on point, and I guess you have never had to contest a neutral point, which is something that does need to happen.

Again initially I was just stating that dodging doesn’t nuertralize DH traps since they persist, yes you can avoid the damage.

You can avoid everything, but your problem is that you fight under his terms cause you charge to him.

Symbol build doesen’t have stability………period. you can do to him what you like with all those cc’s flying around. DH is not even close to condi cancer.

Problem again is class stacking. When you have 3 of some same class you are doomed.
Fought 3 scrappers, condi warrs, …..that is….problem, not even DH can compare to those.

Class stacking need to be removed. Max 2 per class.

sophiewhite.3149:

so youve never fought on a neutralized point to keep them from capping it? wow….

If the point is neutralized, that doesn’t mean you can’t get off the point for a while, come back once the worst burst is over, kb the other person out, then completely neutralize any cap progress the person has made. It takes a long time to cap a point, and a burst is called burst for a reason – it doesnt last very long.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Let’s break this down, Test of Faith still persists even if you dodge through which will Proc on Shield 5 throwing you out of it and F1 pulling you in, on top of if you have to attempt to kite do to more Aoe on point, and I guess you have never had to contest a neutral point, which is something that does need to happen.

Again initially I was just stating that dodging doesn’t nuertralize DH traps since they persist, yes you can avoid the damage.

It’s not difficult to avoid crossing the test of faith boundary, it’s a thin line in a giant circle. The whole cc chain can be countered by having stability, which is readily available on most meta builds. If you don’t have stab up and the trap goes down, then just get off the cap and LoS. As per above, trap duration is significantly shorter than the time it takes to cap the point. You don’t need to stand on it all the time and eat bursts.

Zelulose.8695:

Traps are instant and to be used like attacks. They can hit on use or hit over duration which makes them strong. People who say 1 dodge nullifies traps don’t understand how to play guardian. A good guardian does not place a trap waiting for someone to walk over it. They use the traps as interrupts/ damage when your not dodging. They can do this because traps have no cast time. With out a cast time you cannot react to a guardian using the trap. All you can do is hope he is new to DH and placed a trap away from you waiting for you to walk over it. Also if you dodge a trap it is likely you won’t dodge twice in a row. Given that he will probably use the fast and unblock-able f1 and suck you back in.

I have been playing allot of DH this season because they equal free win streaks often.

A good guardian will run a build that uses 2 traps at maximum. The one viable dps trap (test of faith) is countered by a) dodging past the boundary b) stunbreak/stability and passive traits that do it for you or c) getting off the point so the guardian doesn’t have the opportunity to cc you through the trap. Glorious counters!

Instead of going on and on about all these non-issues that don’t even address the reason why guardian feels unbalanced and then call for the nerf bat without thinking of the consequences, let me refer you to this thread where I go into detail about all these issues.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Rational-propositions-for-balancing-DH/first#post6316525

As an altoholic who also plays a lot of guard and thief…
The problem with dh is is that it isn’t in a great spot either way.
Imo the trap trait needs a change, swap the daze for something else, im not sure if immobilisation is the way but it needs to come in conjuction with adding the tools needed for a dh to make it’s traps count, I believe shaving some of the redicilous cast times on hammer cc skills aswell as making Ring of Warding work more like GS #5 would help guardians “trap enemys” without having a redicilous form AoE of fast casting cc.
Traps are dodgeable, they have an animation and cast time, it’s possible for me as a thief to pressure a dh and pay attention for when he crouches, then dodge.
I will also go as far as saying that Fragments of faith on CC is a bad designed trait, allthoug needed atm, in order to compete.

Hot and the balance patches have brough us many awfully designed and out of wack things and Dh isn’t just one of them, that’s mostly because bad players are emotionally fed up with it. All elite specs and core specs need a lot at to bring them more in line and bring in more active and skill factoring gameplay, reducing passives and increasing the reactive gameplay that was advertised when the game launched.

If anything doesnt need a nerf it would be “guardian” the title should state “dh trapps need to be worked on”

Ragnarox.9601:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Ragnarox.9601:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Ragnarox.9601:

1 dodge eliminates traps…why its so hard to bind dodge key?

1 dodge doesn’t eliminate a trap especially in a game where standing on point is required, dodging only helps activate without taking the activation daze and initial damage.

wtf..dodge eliminates everything. Only PoB is still active cause its aoe whirlwind attack.

Standing on a point gives you nothing if both of you are inside, you dont decap anything….you should already know that….if you are pvp player.

Thats the problem of pvp, ppl are rushing into DH traps and die and yelling NERF NERF but they don’t know fundamentals of PVP at all (capping and decapping a point).

Let’s break this down, Test of Faith still persists even if you dodge through which will Proc on Shield 5 throwing you out of it and F1 pulling you in, on top of if you have to attempt to kite do to more Aoe on point, and I guess you have never had to contest a neutral point, which is something that does need to happen.

Again initially I was just stating that dodging doesn’t nuertralize DH traps since they persist, yes you can avoid the damage.

You can avoid everything, but your problem is that you fight under his terms cause you charge to him.

Symbol build doesen’t have stability………period. you can do to him what you like with all those cc’s flying around. DH is not even close to condi cancer.

Problem again is class stacking. When you have 3 of some same class you are doomed.
Fought 3 scrappers, condi warrs, …..that is….problem, not even DH can compare to those.

Class stacking need to be removed. Max 2 per class.

Again you originally said Dodging Eliminates traps, it does not they persist and most DHs will JI and lay trap on top of you eliminating most of the just dodge through the traps argument, only time I see DHs pre-lay traps and wait to be stepped on are the full trapper builds that camp a point, yes dodging through pre-laid traps is simple, but not all traps are pre-laid.

Again I was just calling you out on your original statement of Dodging eliminates traps completely, which they don’t the traps are still there after the dodge locking players off of the point, since the main point of traps is area Denial and with traps being able to cover the majority of Node circles it is an issue in the game mode.

And I don’t engage DHs unless I am 1 on my own DH to fight fire with fire or two I am on my main wait for another party member to engage make the DH blow CDs then I burst them when there are no traps or burst heals available to them. I don’t have issues with the traps I was just stating you were wrong that it elliminates them.

I would propose reducing the Aoe size of the traps would balance things out a little more for the game type.

Chaith.8256:

MarkoNS.3261:

if you think guard is a “balanced” class you are just delusional.

You’re being emotional about it, if you really broke down what it brings to the table, you’ll find it’s not overtuned.

Dragonhunter with the Longbow build has reasonable teamfighting and small scale capabilities, tends to be advantaged in any sized fights in the presence of enemy Mesmers, Thieves, Warriors, and Necros

Tends to do much worse in any sized fights in the presence of Retribution Revs, Scrappers, Druids, and Eles.

The symbol build is just an overly selfish version of Druid/Scrapper that trades in a few clutch abilities in favor of highly avoidable symbol spam – only tactical use being for slowly pushing someone off & full capping a point in a 1v1

Dragonhunter is not even close to game breaking if players, on average, know when to back off, or press their defensive buttons at the right times. The players who are convinced Dragonhunter is OP are not being deceptive, just not at all realizing how to disrupt the Dragonhunter’s one-trick-pony burst combo.

It goes a bit like this:

• Cast True Shot
• Judge’s Intervention right before firing the True Shot
• Test of Faith Immediately
• Deflecting Shot knockback through Test of Faith
• Spear of Justice while they’re knocked back by Deflecting Shot
• Spear of Justice again to pull through Test of Faith

So here’s what you do: Activate stability/invuln at any time, or dodge out of Test of Faith before he positions his Deflecting Shot on you.

It’s a long combo to land a kill on somebody, honestly, Condi Engi burst, Thief Bursts, Invo Rev bursts, Mesmer Moa&Burst, these are much more lethal and more difficult to disrupt than the Dragonhunter’s. Dragonhunter will obliterate the sizable amount of players who haven’t mastered the ‘in and out’ active positioning PvP playstyle in GW2, and won’t instantly die like these same individuals, because the Guardian just presses cooldowns back to back instead of relying on positioning.

This is all true and great but you are breaking it down from the perspective of someone who plays the game in the lets just say the 99%.

On your way to legendary in ranked games you must see the players who run into mid fights getting caught, not targeting, players getting downed due to them running away from a fight or winning a fight vs someone else then step on traps and dies.

IMO its probably the 5-6 option for you guys in the ESL but lets discuss ranked atm with stacking of this class for people who are already struggling to find there strengths against it.

Just like season 1-2 people who played warriors or thief either needed to adjust or play a new class. Same with DH in 3 and now eles in 4 but the difference is the meta is completely offensive. Yet many 1 vs 1 fights can take minutes and as well as mid fights at the higher levels with rules against class stacking because of the inbalance in the game in 5 vs 5 situations. You are getting alot of people struggling to extend fights with DH with there F3 and your getting alot of people getting caught in multiple traps thrown in mid fights dazing each time.

I understand you can see the weaknesses of the class as well maybe seeing eye to eye with it with the people you play with on how to deal with it but you have to admit for the casual player its a real frustrating situation when you have to play X 3 utility skills because it counters the DH.

The meta game is only enforced harder on the community for each class because 1 meta is simply easier to play/understand/ get results for a ranked season.

nicknamenick.2437:

i just hate that instant spear..

Unblockable? Ok i get that because of reflect problems (well its not really a projectile)
Pull? sure its because guardians are slow (well used to.. In combat teleport is fast)
Pierce? well sure why not its HOT so it should be good lol :-)

But its so kitten fast! i have to do lucky dodge to counter it.

All HOT stuff is crazy compared to Core stuff.. but atleast make it somewhat counterable…

Pretty much what I think makes Guardians pretty good at the moment. That, and their amount of healing their trap does in total. Just slow down the speed of it, or give it a 3/4 second cast time animation of a glowing spear windup. Anything else would probably put DH back to season 1 warrior level :/

Funny how people complain about traps when the best builds use only the heal trap and Test of Faith. A Ranger Pet can trigger the trap with no danger to the ranger. A Minion Necro can do the same. If you see Test of Faith get triggered, pop your stability and the DH cant push/pull you through it.

Ragnarox.9601:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Ragnarox.9601:

1 dodge eliminates traps…why its so hard to bind dodge key?

1 dodge doesn’t eliminate a trap especially in a game where standing on point is required, dodging only helps activate without taking the activation daze and initial damage.

wtf..dodge eliminates everything. Only PoB is still active cause its aoe whirlwind attack.

Standing on a point gives you nothing if both of you are inside, you dont decap anything….you should already know that….if you are pvp player.

Thats the problem of pvp, ppl are rushing into DH traps and die and yelling NERF NERF but they don’t know fundamentals of PVP at all (capping and decapping a point).

ToF—>Deflecting Shot—>Spear of Justice—>Hunter’s Verdict=dead anything-that-doesn’t-have-instacast-immune. And that’s without a single auto attack. Because you’re hitting the opponent with ToF effectively 4 times, all of which is unblockable, as you knock them through the barrier then pull them back through it.
*edited to add that since every one of those is an instacast and can land while the guy’s still unable to do anything while he’s still in midair from the Deflecting Shot knockback you can land Spear of Justice with a 100% success rate

sophiewhite.3149:

Kuya.6495:

Actually you know what, put Renewed focus to 1 second. Might help me hold a point better and get back to using my virtues faster.

you must be absolutely terrible at this game if you suck with a gaurdian.

Did i take a dump on your breakfast recently (envy is a common thing around here)? My dear and simple friend, i meant that renewed focus lasting 3 seconds is more of a detriment than a boon since that’s 3 seconds of no point capture contribution. If it lasted 1 second, it would be even stronger probably. So yea, go ahead and nerf that kitten.

And dont worry, i still love you even if you’re salty.

Chaith.8256:

-snip.

This is all fine. But, do you realize DHs are destroying low(er) tier PvP? Their effectiveness to effort ratio is clearly way off. That’s the issue. New, inexperienced and potentially (interested) long(er) term palyers are by far the most important player-base. It’s evident some of them are going to get turned off after getting destroyed by some DH with seemingly little effort.

I, personally, could care less about DH balance as I can handle them just fine on my Druid regardless of tier. Realistically though, I definetly see the point in some of the complaints, even if after some balance said DH ends up not being as effective in higher tier play. Something (anything!) needs to be done balance-wise as soon as possible.

There’s a feeling of frustration and discomfort in how this profession currently performs or else you wouldn’t see these numerous complaints in these forums and map chat in-game. The sPvP player-base is diminishing enough already, let’s discuss this with at least some impartial and constructive perspective.

I think the realistic way of cutting down on the dominance of dh on low tier pvp is to lower damage specifically on procession of blades, dragon’s maw, and symbol damage from sword 2 and scepter 2. I don’t think the damage on test of faith should be touched because that’s the trap used for higher tiers of play and it actually requires the DH to watch for stab before combo, and then perform, in order, a specific set of skills depending on enemy positioning (if enemy is outside circle, you pull with f1, if they are inside, you push with either lb 2, hammer 4 or shield 5). I don’t know if you need to increase the healing from symbol trait on honor line to compensate for symbol damage nerfs on sword 2 and scepter 2.

I know lowering the damage on those two symbols wouldn’t necessarily put symbolic out of meta, since the build doesn’t just use symbol spam to damage but also to maintain a sustain cadence along with aegis and dodges. As long symbolic still maintains its shield 5 knockback, daze on trap, heal on aegis, cleanse on block, it still serves its purpose even if symbol damage is lowered on those specific one handed skills. So symbolic might survive damage nerfs on symbols for higher pvp, but just become less useful in low tier pvp.

Please also increase speed on mace 2 while you are at it, it’s too slow for what little it offers.

Kuya.6495:

I think the realistic way of cutting down on the dominance of dh on low tier pvp is to lower damage specifically on procession of blades, dragon’s maw, and symbol damage from sword 2 and scepter 2. I don’t think the damage on test of faith should be touched because that’s the trap used for higher tiers of play and it actually requires the DH to watch for stab before combo, and then perform, in order, a specific set of skills depending on enemy positioning (if enemy is outside circle, you pull with f1, if they are inside, you push with either lb 2, hammer 4 or shield 5). I don’t know if you need to increase the healing from symbol trait on honor line to compensate for symbol damage nerfs on sword 2 and scepter 2.

I know lowering the damage on those two symbols wouldn’t necessarily put symbolic out of meta, since the build doesn’t just use symbol spam to damage but also to maintain a sustain cadence along with aegis and dodges. As long symbolic still maintains its shield 5 knockback, daze on trap, heal on aegis, cleanse on block, it still serves its purpose even if symbol damage is lowered on those specific one handed skills. So symbolic might survive damage nerfs on symbols for higher pvp, but just become less useful in low tier pvp.

Please also increase speed on mace 2 while you are at it, it’s too slow for what little it offers.

Mace is incredibly slow and i would like to see some hammer skills speed increased but im not one to say whats needs balance and what doesnt since ive been wrong about these things.

My big problem with this trap class is the same as ele were in the past season. It doesnt take a whole lot to play it and the skill level isnt high either.

Like when you pick any class you start at a 0 floor rate. Depending on the classes abilities and set up is its ceiling. If you take the recent meta builds for ele in the past seasons. The floor is literally a 4, people can not play this class wrong just not as well as they could have. The best players would play this at a imo ceiling of 7.

Dh now is that class, where literally any player can pick it up and be a 4 or 5 level. And the most elite of DH are only play at a 7 which is why the class is not balance. I have literally seen thieves, mesmers, revs, necros and ele player die in 4-5 seconds in a mid fight when they get targeted at mid and were not ready for it. Simply because they dont have the outs, Dh players can go into there heal or stun break aegis trap followed by the F1-3 which in similar cases as the other classes dont have these outs.

I dont want to see the Dh nerfed but i do want it to be balanced in a way thats far for everyone. I find build diversity with in each class is the problem but i dont know how you fix this.

I mean in 1 vs 1 DH are what the 3-4 best class? Then in team fights they are what the 2nd or 3rd class you target? I mean the class is in no way OP but my question to you is what would you try to change that makes lesser classes on par with DH without making them OP in the ESL scene.

Kuya.6495:

I think the realistic way of cutting down on the dominance of dh on low tier pvp is to lower damage specifically on procession of blades, dragon’s maw, and symbol damage from sword 2 and scepter 2. I don’t think the damage on test of faith should be touched because that’s the trap used for higher tiers of play and it actually requires the DH to watch for stab before combo, and then perform, in order, a specific set of skills depending on enemy positioning (if enemy is outside circle, you pull with f1, if they are inside, you push with either lb 2, hammer 4 or shield 5). I don’t know if you need to increase the healing from symbol trait on honor line to compensate for symbol damage nerfs on sword 2 and scepter 2.

I know lowering the damage on those two symbols wouldn’t necessarily put symbolic out of meta, since the build doesn’t just use symbol spam to damage but also to maintain a sustain cadence along with aegis and dodges. As long symbolic still maintains its shield 5 knockback, daze on trap, heal on aegis, cleanse on block, it still serves its purpose even if symbol damage is lowered on those specific one handed skills. So symbolic might survive damage nerfs on symbols for higher pvp, but just become less useful in low tier pvp.

Please also increase speed on mace 2 while you are at it, it’s too slow for what little it offers.

i agree with this. im fine with classes tanking like no tomorrow. sure it sucks in conquest but its doable. its when they start doing mad damage too. so agreed kuya

Khenzy.9348:

The sPvP player-base is diminishing enough already, let’s discuss this with at least some impartial and constructive perspective.

My perspective isn’t non-constructive. I also don’t agree with your perspective that the outcry should always be catered to because clearly the game is always at fault if enough people are raging.

And there’s two big reasons why: Scrapper and Druid.

Scrapper and Druid over-perform in low tier PvP with minimal effort, and it’s the perfect answer to DH spam. The tools for equality and balance on all skill levels are all there, it’s not fixable by ArenaNet when players roll Thief, Mesmer, and Necro vs 3 Dragonhunters and throw their bodies back and forth over Tests of Faith. Little can be done about that.

I don’t object to reducing the strength of DH with minimal effort, ie: foolproofing things like Test of Faith as long as it’s not going to throw a wrench in the balance when interacting as intended – players on both sides know their buttons. I’d be interested in critiquing ideas like that.

Even better, I’ll just contribute a freaking amazing idea.

N00b proof Dragonhunter stacking, but not affect mid tier and above as much, change Test of Faith to where: A player can not be affected by Test of Faith’s threshold-crossing-punishment more than once every second.

This would make it so players being pulled, pushed, or idly walking through multiple Tests of Faith from 1-3 Dragonhunters wouldn’t just instantly die.

Best way to nerf this class is to make traps activate each other if they are place on top of each other.. It makes no sense being able to put a trap on top of another trap…

This makes it so the user has to actually use his traps wisely.. and not just dump them all on one point… then some one comes and insta downs due to excessive damage.

I mean it doesn’t stop them from spamming them all while actively fighting.. but at least you won’t be entering a fight with 80% of your health gone when you hit their stash of traps.

Nothing here just troll bait post move on.

I think they are kind of balanced with the other HoT specs now. Last season I could kill DH fairly often on a non-HoT build; now they are all basically really hard to kill like the other HoT specs (except for druid which generally seems weak to me).

they could reduce the dmg done by traps by 50 % at least and make them have 3 sec arm time that would fix it

having one class that can just sit on points and brainlessly spam traps is just silly, so much skill that needs o look a button of cd let me click it ooooo.

MarkoNS.3261:

they could reduce the dmg done by traps by 50 % at least and make them have 3 sec arm time that would fix it

LOL

Chaith.8256:

Khenzy.9348:

The sPvP player-base is diminishing enough already, let’s discuss this with at least some impartial and constructive perspective.

My perspective isn’t non-constructive. I also don’t agree with your perspective that the outcry should always be catered to because clearly the game is always at fault if enough people are raging.

And there’s two big reasons why: Scrapper and Druid.

Scrapper and Druid over-perform in low tier PvP with minimal effort, and it’s the perfect answer to DH spam. The tools for equality and balance on all skill levels are all there, it’s not fixable by ArenaNet when players roll Thief, Mesmer, and Necro vs 3 Dragonhunters and throw their bodies back and forth over Tests of Faith. Little can be done about that.

I don’t object to reducing the strength of DH with minimal effort, ie: foolproofing things like Test of Faith as long as it’s not going to throw a wrench in the balance when interacting as intended – players on both sides know their buttons. I’d be interested in critiquing ideas like that.

Even better, I’ll just contribute a freaking amazing idea.

N00b proof Dragonhunter stacking, but not affect mid tier and above as much, change Test of Faith to where: A player can not be affected by Test of Faith’s threshold-crossing-punishment more than once every second.

This would make it so players being pulled, pushed, or idly walking through multiple Tests of Faith from 1-3 Dragonhunters wouldn’t just instantly die.

I was merely pointing out that we should make a shift in the discussion in a constructive way, not claiming what you said was not contructive, because it was, very different things.
I never said the outcries should always be catered to, they just show the overall perception of balance the current meta has, something that should be taken into account, but that’s it. I also think, personally, DHs are a clear issue right now, they require very low input to achive high effectiveness (specially in lower tiers) which contributes to their high population. Druid and Scrapper balance has been an issue for several seasons now, even if they can handle DHs, that does not make it acceptable in my opinion.

If according to you the issue is Thief, Mesmer, and Necro players throwing ‘their bodies back and forth over Tests of Faith’, you can’t fix people’s idiocy, this is not the point I was trying to make. I think we are discussing in different terms here. Also, just for the sake of pointing this out, not all casual or new players are necessarily noobs, let’s try to show them as much respect as we can, shall we?

I don’t think the issue is specifically Test of Faith at lower tiers (have you even seen people play, much less play yourself, at this tier?), your suggestion is definitely a good start though . I think it’s the amount of instant or near-instant CC (shield, spear, traps)+high spike heals that become a little too much to handle, specially when there’s more than one DH. Obviously this particular situation is the sum of many things (other classes’ nerfs, amulet removal and so on).

Khenzy.9348:

Also, just for the sake of pointing this out, not all casual or new players are necessarily noobs, let’s try to show them as much respect as we can, shall we?

Wouldn’t be 2016 if on principle you didn’t feel the need to defend the honor of say… new players being referred to as a word as disgusting as ‘noob’.

I’m ashamed, I’ll show myself the door

kdaddy.5431:

Kuya.6495:

I think the realistic way of cutting down on the dominance of dh on low tier pvp is to lower damage specifically on procession of blades, dragon’s maw, and symbol damage from sword 2 and scepter 2. I don’t think the damage on test of faith should be touched because that’s the trap used for higher tiers of play and it actually requires the DH to watch for stab before combo, and then perform, in order, a specific set of skills depending on enemy positioning (if enemy is outside circle, you pull with f1, if they are inside, you push with either lb 2, hammer 4 or shield 5). I don’t know if you need to increase the healing from symbol trait on honor line to compensate for symbol damage nerfs on sword 2 and scepter 2.

I know lowering the damage on those two symbols wouldn’t necessarily put symbolic out of meta, since the build doesn’t just use symbol spam to damage but also to maintain a sustain cadence along with aegis and dodges. As long symbolic still maintains its shield 5 knockback, daze on trap, heal on aegis, cleanse on block, it still serves its purpose even if symbol damage is lowered on those specific one handed skills. So symbolic might survive damage nerfs on symbols for higher pvp, but just become less useful in low tier pvp.

Please also increase speed on mace 2 while you are at it, it’s too slow for what little it offers.

snip
I mean in 1 vs 1 DH are what the 3-4 best class? Then in team fights they are what the 2nd or 3rd class you target? I mean the class is in no way OP but my question to you is what would you try to change that makes lesser classes on par with DH without making them OP in the ESL scene.

It depends entirely on the spec. 1v1 full trapper is like 8th (equal skill levels should only consistently beat thieves and even then not even 90% of the time), Symbolic is like 3rd, meditrapper 4th or 5th.

In team fights full trapper is still only like 5th at any kind of actual skill, they’re the quintessential noobstomper and even a good one will never get much damage from the traps. Meditrapper is like 3rd (most people would much rather have a scrapper or mesmer on their side in a teamfight, both do significantly more total damage, have more devastating burst, and bring much more group support) and Symbolic is easily the worst at 9th (poor mobility, low AoE, poor point control, no group support at all, lower personal sustain than any other DH build so they die easily and frequently, decent but nothing-special burst compared to thief/warrior/ele).

Lucred.1802:

kdaddy.5431:

Kuya.6495:

I think the realistic way of cutting down on the dominance of dh on low tier pvp is to lower damage specifically on procession of blades, dragon’s maw, and symbol damage from sword 2 and scepter 2. I don’t think the damage on test of faith should be touched because that’s the trap used for higher tiers of play and it actually requires the DH to watch for stab before combo, and then perform, in order, a specific set of skills depending on enemy positioning (if enemy is outside circle, you pull with f1, if they are inside, you push with either lb 2, hammer 4 or shield 5). I don’t know if you need to increase the healing from symbol trait on honor line to compensate for symbol damage nerfs on sword 2 and scepter 2.

I know lowering the damage on those two symbols wouldn’t necessarily put symbolic out of meta, since the build doesn’t just use symbol spam to damage but also to maintain a sustain cadence along with aegis and dodges. As long symbolic still maintains its shield 5 knockback, daze on trap, heal on aegis, cleanse on block, it still serves its purpose even if symbol damage is lowered on those specific one handed skills. So symbolic might survive damage nerfs on symbols for higher pvp, but just become less useful in low tier pvp.

Please also increase speed on mace 2 while you are at it, it’s too slow for what little it offers.

snip
I mean in 1 vs 1 DH are what the 3-4 best class? Then in team fights they are what the 2nd or 3rd class you target? I mean the class is in no way OP but my question to you is what would you try to change that makes lesser classes on par with DH without making them OP in the ESL scene.

It depends entirely on the spec. 1v1 full trapper is like 8th (equal skill levels should only consistently beat thieves and even then not even 90% of the time), Symbolic is like 3rd, meditrapper 4th or 5th.

In team fights full trapper is still only like 5th at any kind of actual skill, they’re the quintessential noobstomper and even a good one will never get much damage from the traps. Meditrapper is like 3rd (most people would much rather have a scrapper or mesmer on their side in a teamfight, both do significantly more total damage, have more devastating burst, and bring much more group support) and Symbolic is easily the worst at 9th (poor mobility, low AoE, poor point control, no group support at all, lower personal sustain than any other DH build so they die easily and frequently, decent but nothing-special burst compared to thief/warrior/ele).

See i dont know how you would do it but every class needs to have a best 1 vs 1 build, best team fighting build then builds that are so-so in each area but has the best mobility.

Currently im in ruby and im getting matches like these. Now someone said the scrappers and druids countered DH which might be true but that doesnt account for skill level. You have a huge part of the community who plays at a 3-5 level and thats with their best class. It can be hard to play mesmer,thief,rev, and ele atm for alot of people. Even harder for people who play engy/rev/warrior/and ranger and are expected to win the 1 vs 1.

Im having matches where the supposed class person engages a 1 vs 1 with the DH and doesnt win, i dont get mad at anyone but you can sense the frustration from people see matches like i have had where they hear ohh play rev/scrapper/druid meta and win the 1 vs 1 and they dont. I dont know where you would start to apply nerfs or buffs on either side.

It;s not their damage,it;s their overall block up time while dishing out damage.