Guild Wars 2

Literally after i posted that last comment i got this match. We actually should of won but my team mates felt it was necessary to give them the cap points back after killing them in fights, to chase beasts.

kdaddy.5431:

Literally after i posted that last comment i got this match. We actually should of won but my team mates felt it was necessary to give them the cap points back after killing them in fights, to chase beasts.

I’m seeing this as an issue more of class stacking than it is any one build of Guardian being OP (this is not saying DH doesn’t need some tuning, it does). You’d have had the same or worse outcomes if those’d been 4 Scrappers or 4 Druids, and probably the same outcome with 4 Mesmers or 4 Ele’s.

The reason DH gets complained about the most is it’s infinitely more common to get a team with 3 DH’s than it is to get a team with 3 of anything else, in part because they’re easy to play “well enough”. Their skill floor is too low.

This is no different than season 2’s necro stacking, and necros in season 2 were infinitely more oppressive when stacked in numbers on a node than DHs that aren’t running full traps.

Any meta build when stacked presents problems

stacking warriors? lol good luck spending more than 2 seconds in a fight being not dazed with 10+ stacks of bleeding/burning/torment/confusion on you.

stacking thieves? lol 100-0’d

stacking revs? lol staff 5 100-0’d

stacking mesmers? WTB new tab key, no wait i’m a moa now…and im dead.

the only class that doesn’t do much when stacked is eles, but eles in general need a ton of help, they’re the DHs of season 3.

Lucred.1802:

kdaddy.5431:

Literally after i posted that last comment i got this match. We actually should of won but my team mates felt it was necessary to give them the cap points back after killing them in fights, to chase beasts.

I’m seeing this as an issue more of class stacking than it is any one build of Guardian being OP (this is not saying DH doesn’t need some tuning, it does). You’d have had the same or worse outcomes if those’d been 4 Scrappers or 4 Druids, and probably the same outcome with 4 Mesmers or 4 Ele’s.

The reason DH gets complained about the most is it’s infinitely more common to get a team with 3 DH’s than it is to get a team with 3 of anything else, in part because they’re easy to play “well enough”. Their skill floor is too low.

Oh yeah you and Darknicrofia.2604 are correct.

But i disagree that stacking classes isnt the real issue. For instance get 5 warriors lets just say 3 meta with 2 running gun flame or something. There is a counter and a easy one from a team perspective. Also warrior cant heal others, cant cleanse for others, cant block for others and are not great at rezzing in there current meta state.

You stack thieves and guess what we can just camp 2 points with what ever team comp because you have to play squishy. Im still playing some ele and i dont worry about theives at all really on my ele but im using stone heart so there are just simple things you can do to counter this.

I can go down the list and just like Darknicrofia.2604 said about necros in S2 but there were team counters such as a shout ele as well as certain 1 vs 1 builds that beat them. Its why when we had all those necro threads we had alot of people saying its a L2P issue combined with it was the flavor of the month.

What makes Dh different is its ability for 1 DH to put down traps and other can play off of it giving huge damage. A player has 1-2 stacks of stability then 2 DH set down traps and break the bar then the spear of justice after you dodge out. Then you add how it can block for rezzes, heal condi and health for team mates, can play range or in the cap point and when playing off the cap point they can set you up.

For instance in the screen shot above 2 dh fought off point and when someone tried to engage them off point they would run into the random trap. Another thing rifle warriors, hammer revs, mesmers cant do. You switch into melee weapon mode.

Like we talked about earlier, its not a huge problem 1 vs 1, its not a problem if there is 1 on a team maybe even if there is 2 but when the class doesnt have a real weakness. Its real easy to play and when you get the majority of players who are below average to average. You now have to think about how good is it at floor level?

In season 2 i made a 1 vs 1 warrior with rifle and mace shield. Could beat the flavor of the month necro all the way up until mid diamond and then it became sometimes i win. Now take just a random player and ask the same thing and they would struggle heading into ruby.

Now place that necro everywhere where there is no hard counter and no odd build to change a match up. Chaith in his own post is writing how to beat one but there is a thread about storm saying how a DH doesnt want to face a engy. It then ends up with the OP of the thread facing a ESL player on engy facing his DH. And im interpreting but the Op said it took him really long time for the engy to beat him.

Taken everything ive said, take what you are saying, take what the storm comment thread and put it together with chaith’s comment and think about the average to below average player which probably consists of 80% of the game who is getting handled by the DH in 1 vs 1 and team fights. Think about how a ESL player basically makes all the right dodges and moves and still wins after a 1-2 minute battle and take the ceiling and floor of that build compared to the DH.

Now with in that contexts would you still say its more MM or the DH? Unless you just want every player who cant beat it to join it?

3k hours on thief I have 50 vs 50 chance against a lot of ppl at my level skill
2 days on guardian I have about 100% win rate vs the same ppl
Guardian is so easy to play that it is embarassing

Kolly.9872:

3k hours on thief I have 50 vs 50 chance against a lot of ppl at my level skill
2 days on guardian I have about 100% win rate vs the same ppl
Guardian is so easy to play that it is embarassing

Maybe that same ppl are not skilled at all?

Ragnarox.9601:

Kolly.9872:

3k hours on thief I have 50 vs 50 chance against a lot of ppl at my level skill
2 days on guardian I have about 100% win rate vs the same ppl
Guardian is so easy to play that it is embarassing

Maybe that same ppl are not skilled at all?

Maybe, but the point is that a 3k hours on thief player like me, finds guardian a lot easier to play and to deal against other classes after just 2 days of maining the class. Am I good? Maybe or maybe not, surely my ego is not as big as the one of other players it seems but still I can say I play thief a lot better than I play guardian.

kdaddy.5431:

Lucred.1802:

kdaddy.5431:

Kuya.6495:

I think the realistic way of cutting down on the dominance of dh on low tier pvp is to lower damage specifically on procession of blades, dragon’s maw, and symbol damage from sword 2 and scepter 2. I don’t think the damage on test of faith should be touched because that’s the trap used for higher tiers of play and it actually requires the DH to watch for stab before combo, and then perform, in order, a specific set of skills depending on enemy positioning (if enemy is outside circle, you pull with f1, if they are inside, you push with either lb 2, hammer 4 or shield 5). I don’t know if you need to increase the healing from symbol trait on honor line to compensate for symbol damage nerfs on sword 2 and scepter 2.

I know lowering the damage on those two symbols wouldn’t necessarily put symbolic out of meta, since the build doesn’t just use symbol spam to damage but also to maintain a sustain cadence along with aegis and dodges. As long symbolic still maintains its shield 5 knockback, daze on trap, heal on aegis, cleanse on block, it still serves its purpose even if symbol damage is lowered on those specific one handed skills. So symbolic might survive damage nerfs on symbols for higher pvp, but just become less useful in low tier pvp.

Please also increase speed on mace 2 while you are at it, it’s too slow for what little it offers.

snip
I mean in 1 vs 1 DH are what the 3-4 best class? Then in team fights they are what the 2nd or 3rd class you target? I mean the class is in no way OP but my question to you is what would you try to change that makes lesser classes on par with DH without making them OP in the ESL scene.

It depends entirely on the spec. 1v1 full trapper is like 8th (equal skill levels should only consistently beat thieves and even then not even 90% of the time), Symbolic is like 3rd, meditrapper 4th or 5th.

In team fights full trapper is still only like 5th at any kind of actual skill, they’re the quintessential noobstomper and even a good one will never get much damage from the traps. Meditrapper is like 3rd (most people would much rather have a scrapper or mesmer on their side in a teamfight, both do significantly more total damage, have more devastating burst, and bring much more group support) and Symbolic is easily the worst at 9th (poor mobility, low AoE, poor point control, no group support at all, lower personal sustain than any other DH build so they die easily and frequently, decent but nothing-special burst compared to thief/warrior/ele).

See i dont know how you would do it but every class needs to have a best 1 vs 1 build, best team fighting build then builds that are so-so in each area but has the best mobility.

Currently im in ruby and im getting matches like these. Now someone said the scrappers and druids countered DH which might be true but that doesnt account for skill level. You have a huge part of the community who plays at a 3-5 level and thats with their best class. It can be hard to play mesmer,thief,rev, and ele atm for alot of people. Even harder for people who play engy/rev/warrior/and ranger and are expected to win the 1 vs 1.

Im having matches where the supposed class person engages a 1 vs 1 with the DH and doesnt win, i dont get mad at anyone but you can sense the frustration from people see matches like i have had where they hear ohh play rev/scrapper/druid meta and win the 1 vs 1 and they dont. I dont know where you would start to apply nerfs or buffs on either side.

You may be doing bad on ele because you play dagger main hand just saying…

Essentially your build is pretty bad for the kind of opposition you’re getting, currently dagger main hand won’t shine anywhere contrary to scepter in the current meta and that’s not to say that D MH is bad, just it’s tactically wrong

-You need focus as there you have the only usable unblockable CC where you’ll use it at crucial moments when DH are blocking, to land your burst

-If you try to keep a point against a 4 DH team..you’re doing is wrong, you need great ranged burst and mobility, therefore playing a sustain d/wh makes you completely useless, your only chance there is fresh air scepter…a particular version of it

-Unless the dh is bunker ( but he will lack dmg ), it’s feasible for all profession to beat it 1vs1, the trick there is to get around their obvious combos

Not much interested in this thread really even though I have a lv80 full ascended DH, I can beat them even on ele in its current state without much fuss. I may get killed by a DH as I may get outplayed..but nothing wrong there.

Not matter how bad is scepter respect to dagger main hand, in the current meta is the best weapon to have, good players will just outrange dagger..on any class they can, furthermore dagger mh will get you killed if you face dps druid with double taunt or condi war or condi chronos or ofc dragon hunters with dragon’s maw

P.S as side note dragon hunters using dragon’s maw are the bad ones, there you see a noob playing a noob stomper build, outplaying them should be easy feat

P.S.S Triple shout is bad now, you must have a stunbreaker and if you use warhorn you must have mist form at least in PvP, because there is no amulet supporting tank/sustain for ele

Kolly.9872:

Maybe, but the point is that a 3k hours on thief player like me, finds guardian a lot easier to play and to deal against other classes after just 2 days of maining the class. Am I good? Maybe or maybe not, surely my ego is not as big as the one of other players it seems but still I can say I play thief a lot better than I play guardian.

Maybe then you suck at thief and you should play guardian more? Just my 2 cents.

Chaith.8256:

Khenzy.9348:

The sPvP player-base is diminishing enough already, let’s discuss this with at least some impartial and constructive perspective.

My perspective isn’t non-constructive. I also don’t agree with your perspective that the outcry should always be catered to because clearly the game is always at fault if enough people are raging.

And there’s two big reasons why: Scrapper and Druid.

Scrapper and Druid over-perform in low tier PvP with minimal effort, and it’s the perfect answer to DH spam. The tools for equality and balance on all skill levels are all there, it’s not fixable by ArenaNet when players roll Thief, Mesmer, and Necro vs 3 Dragonhunters and throw their bodies back and forth over Tests of Faith. Little can be done about that.

I don’t object to reducing the strength of DH with minimal effort, ie: foolproofing things like Test of Faith as long as it’s not going to throw a wrench in the balance when interacting as intended – players on both sides know their buttons. I’d be interested in critiquing ideas like that.

Even better, I’ll just contribute a freaking amazing idea.

N00b proof Dragonhunter stacking, but not affect mid tier and above as much, change Test of Faith to where: A player can not be affected by Test of Faith’s threshold-crossing-punishment more than once every second.

This would make it so players being pulled, pushed, or idly walking through multiple Tests of Faith from 1-3 Dragonhunters wouldn’t just instantly die.

I don’t see dh that great problem for chronomancer. If you use meta carrion or if you go rabid with shield scepter, staff it is quite doable .
Chrono have blocks , distortion, sword 2 or scepter block every 4.5 secs and a great mobility . I switched from Scapper to mesmer ( becouse i was bored from scrapper ) and i find a good warrior condition much harder to fight than a dragonhunter. Usually with DragonHunter, if i can not win i can disengage quite easily … with condi warrior it is a lot harder and resistance is a pain in the kitten ( the only way is to try to remove it with sword autoattack or wait … ) . Scrapper has more toughess and good defense but on the other hand it has no mobility ( except eg 3) compared to chrono…

Supreme.3164:

kdaddy.5431:

Lucred.1802:

kdaddy.5431:

Kuya.6495:

I think the realistic way of cutting down on the dominance of dh on low tier pvp is to lower damage specifically on procession of blades, dragon’s maw, and symbol damage from sword 2 and scepter 2. I don’t think the damage on test of faith should be touched because that’s the trap used for higher tiers of play and it actually requires the DH to watch for stab before combo, and then perform, in order, a specific set of skills depending on enemy positioning (if enemy is outside circle, you pull with f1, if they are inside, you push with either lb 2, hammer 4 or shield 5). I don’t know if you need to increase the healing from symbol trait on honor line to compensate for symbol damage nerfs on sword 2 and scepter 2.

I know lowering the damage on those two symbols wouldn’t necessarily put symbolic out of meta, since the build doesn’t just use symbol spam to damage but also to maintain a sustain cadence along with aegis and dodges. As long symbolic still maintains its shield 5 knockback, daze on trap, heal on aegis, cleanse on block, it still serves its purpose even if symbol damage is lowered on those specific one handed skills. So symbolic might survive damage nerfs on symbols for higher pvp, but just become less useful in low tier pvp.

Please also increase speed on mace 2 while you are at it, it’s too slow for what little it offers.

snip
I mean in 1 vs 1 DH are what the 3-4 best class? Then in team fights they are what the 2nd or 3rd class you target? I mean the class is in no way OP but my question to you is what would you try to change that makes lesser classes on par with DH without making them OP in the ESL scene.

It depends entirely on the spec. 1v1 full trapper is like 8th (equal skill levels should only consistently beat thieves and even then not even 90% of the time), Symbolic is like 3rd, meditrapper 4th or 5th.

In team fights full trapper is still only like 5th at any kind of actual skill, they’re the quintessential noobstomper and even a good one will never get much damage from the traps. Meditrapper is like 3rd (most people would much rather have a scrapper or mesmer on their side in a teamfight, both do significantly more total damage, have more devastating burst, and bring much more group support) and Symbolic is easily the worst at 9th (poor mobility, low AoE, poor point control, no group support at all, lower personal sustain than any other DH build so they die easily and frequently, decent but nothing-special burst compared to thief/warrior/ele).

See i dont know how you would do it but every class needs to have a best 1 vs 1 build, best team fighting build then builds that are so-so in each area but has the best mobility.

Currently im in ruby and im getting matches like these. Now someone said the scrappers and druids countered DH which might be true but that doesnt account for skill level. You have a huge part of the community who plays at a 3-5 level and thats with their best class. It can be hard to play mesmer,thief,rev, and ele atm for alot of people. Even harder for people who play engy/rev/warrior/and ranger and are expected to win the 1 vs 1.

Im having matches where the supposed class person engages a 1 vs 1 with the DH and doesnt win, i dont get mad at anyone but you can sense the frustration from people see matches like i have had where they hear ohh play rev/scrapper/druid meta and win the 1 vs 1 and they dont. I dont know where you would start to apply nerfs or buffs on either side.

You may be doing bad on ele because you play dagger main hand just saying…

Essentially your build is pretty bad for the kind of opposition you’re getting, currently dagger main hand won’t shine anywhere contrary to scepter in the current meta and that’s not to say that D MH is bad, just it’s tactically wrong

-You need focus as there you have the only usable unblockable CC where you’ll use it at crucial moments when DH are blocking, to land your burst

-If you try to keep a point against a 4 DH team..you’re doing is wrong, you need great ranged burst and mobility, therefore playing a sustain d/wh makes you completely useless, your only chance there is fresh air scepter…a particular version of it

-Unless the dh is bunker ( but he will lack dmg ), it’s feasible for all profession to beat it 1vs1, the trick there is to get around their obvious combos

Not much interested in this thread really even though I have a lv80 full ascended DH, I can beat them even on ele in its current state without much fuss. I may get killed by a DH as I may get outplayed..but nothing wrong there.

Not matter how bad is scepter respect to dagger main hand, in the current meta is the best weapon to have, good players will just outrange dagger..on any class they can, furthermore dagger mh will get you killed if you face dps druid with double taunt or condi war or condi chronos or ofc dragon hunters with dragon’s maw

P.S as side note dragon hunters using dragon’s maw are the bad ones, there you see a noob playing a noob stomper build, outplaying them should be easy feat

P.S.S Triple shout is bad now, you must have a stunbreaker and if you use warhorn you must have mist form at least in PvP, because there is no amulet supporting tank/sustain for ele

I disagree, i stun break on over loads, its a im trying to perma protect and scepter doesnt do anything.

Once again you want to do hypothetical, im on NA you dont like my Ele build you can see it.

Remember when Anet said they put something in place to prevent class stacking, and all it caused was more class stacking? xD

And that people didn’t use DH because it was terrible but now after not being nerfed it is “OP”

They need to stop nerfing and actually tweak skills so they function differently in pvp than in pve like gw 1.

DH is the new necro minion build… very easy to win aganist people that are not experienced in pvp. Aganist how knows how to play… you always lose.

How many DH teams in tournaments use?

5DH stand no chance aganist 5 Rev… if other teams are stacking class just counter them, DH are extremilly slow so your team just need to know how to rotate to beat them anyway.

There is OP classes on pvp… DH is far away from being one of them, the build that people use in queue is not even viable in tournaments. Trapper DH is just a easy class to play

honestly the biggest issue is not what class is op or not its that they dont split skill balance between pvp and pve if they did that they woudnt have to nerf pve skills and kitten of every pve players for pvp ballances like they did with necro avatar elite , like they did with ele nerfs way to manny fgs icebow overall dmg nerf etc etc will all the nerfs pvp caused to eles i no longer even want to play an elementalist used to me my main. so in short ye seperate pvp and pve or you will kitten of people like me with skill “balances” and we will stop playing those classes if not the game.

Ragnarox.9601:

Kolly.9872:

Maybe, but the point is that a 3k hours on thief player like me, finds guardian a lot easier to play and to deal against other classes after just 2 days of maining the class. Am I good? Maybe or maybe not, surely my ego is not as big as the one of other players it seems but still I can say I play thief a lot better than I play guardian.

Maybe then you suck at thief and you should play guardian more? Just my 2 cents.

Or just maybe I’m a beast at thief and guardian is simply easier to play. I’d say even a more brainless class to play.
But I forgot that the most common argument on this forum is “you suck get gud”. Usually are the most clueless players that abuse this kind of argumentation.
Just my2cent

MarkoNS.3261:

honestly the biggest issue is not what class is op or not its that they dont split skill balance between pvp and pve if they did that they woudnt have to nerf pve skills and kitten of every pve players for pvp ballances like they did with necro avatar elite , like they did with ele nerfs way to manny fgs icebow overall dmg nerf etc etc will all the nerfs pvp caused to eles i no longer even want to play an elementalist used to me my main. so in short ye seperate pvp and pve or you will kitten of people like me with skill “balances” and we will stop playing those classes if not the game.

The most recent nerfs eles received were because of PvE..just saying, right now anet balancing around Raids with all the dps meter BS…like players care if your guild finish a raid a couple min earlier than other

Kolly.9872:

3k hours on thief I have 50 vs 50 chance against a lot of ppl at my level skill
2 days on guardian I have about 100% win rate vs the same ppl
Guardian is so easy to play that it is embarassing

Thieves have second to non mobility, and thus are largely used for decaps and adding on to an existing fight to spike down the enemy.

Guardians have crap for mobility and are used to face smash enemies and/or to bunker pressure people off points/hold points.

…
I am not sure why you are surprised that you find it easier to kill things on a guardian.

Also after certain amount of time of playing this game, you learn mechanics well enough that swapping classes does not handicap you too much. Can you go from never playing a guard to being best guard ever? Likely not. But if you invested 3+k hours in the game you will not start from the bottom of the pile either.

Zania.8461:

Kolly.9872:

3k hours on thief I have 50 vs 50 chance against a lot of ppl at my level skill
2 days on guardian I have about 100% win rate vs the same ppl
Guardian is so easy to play that it is embarassing

Thieves have second to non mobility, and thus are largely used for decaps and adding on to an existing fight to spike down the enemy.

Guardians have crap for mobility and are used to face smash enemies and/or to bunker pressure people off points/hold points.

…
I am not sure why you are surprised that you find it easier to kill things on a guardian.

Also after certain amount of time of playing this game, you learn mechanics well enough that swapping classes does not handicap you too much. Can you go from never playing a guard to being best guard ever? Likely not. But if you invested 3+k hours in the game you will not start from the bottom of the pile either.

Ok I agree at some point with you. But my first assumption was based on my experience that guardian nowadays is too easy to play. It needs an huge nerf? Of course not, but just some fix so that a brainless monkey should not be able to have success with it smashing random buttons.

Zania.8461:

Kolly.9872:

3k hours on thief I have 50 vs 50 chance against a lot of ppl at my level skill
2 days on guardian I have about 100% win rate vs the same ppl
Guardian is so easy to play that it is embarassing

Thieves have second to non mobility, and thus are largely used for decaps and adding on to an existing fight to spike down the enemy.

Guardians have crap for mobility and are used to face smash enemies and/or to bunker pressure people off points/hold points.

…
I am not sure why you are surprised that you find it easier to kill things on a guardian.

Also after certain amount of time of playing this game, you learn mechanics well enough that swapping classes does not handicap you too much. Can you go from never playing a guard to being best guard ever? Likely not. But if you invested 3+k hours in the game you will not start from the bottom of the pile either.

so your saying either thief needs a buff or gaurdian needs a nerf. what your saying is hes either so good hes making a terrible class good and is really good with a decent class or gaurdian is op.

@ supreme.3164

I didnt want to argue points of view of builds with you but i would like to point out that in the Pro League every ele used full shouts and a dagger.

Just a fyi on what those bad eles are playing.

kdaddy.5431:

@ supreme.3164

I didnt want to argue points of view of builds with you but i would like to point out that in the Pro League every ele used full shouts and a dagger.

Just a fyi on what those bad eles are playing.

Ele still seems pretty strong to me, the main difference this season is that I actually see them die sometimes when being focused down. Whatever adjustments were made were spot on imo.

I just send in minions to set off traps

Yasha.5963:

kdaddy.5431:

@ supreme.3164

I didnt want to argue points of view of builds with you but i would like to point out that in the Pro League every ele used full shouts and a dagger.

Just a fyi on what those bad eles are playing.

Ele still seems pretty strong to me, the main difference this season is that I actually see them die sometimes when being focused down. Whatever adjustments were made were spot on imo.

Some what but thats only because of the meta.

Ele itself is in a really bad spot because the above average ele can play it with success but the average player will get chopped down fast.

Then there is build diversity, once again ele is just a healing robot.

Obviously ESL is organized teams and many are not running full dps necro or warrior expecting to be constantly healed by a ele and a ranger/engy.

From a PvP perspective nerfing ele didnt hurt ele at the ESL level but the random que in ranked. To nerf the ele and take away the amulet not only hurt ele but opened up the gates for the druids/mesmers/ and easiest to play DH to flood ranked ques. Every team but NL ran at least 3 support characters.

NL ran a thief and a DH which is why they lost so badly. The same thing will apply in rank ques. Got to have 3 support characters and for those who cant play mesmer like helseth, ranger like rom and engy like chaith. The majority of us cant and so therefore Dh too much.

My stances on all of it havent changed but just letting someone who criticizes my build which is virtually the same as all the ESL players came up with just reconfirms my thoughts on the meta.

>imba druids claiming they handle anyone well and that they are totally fine.

You mean pets doing all the hard work? xD

Anet takes forever to balance, have to come back in a few months to experience any change. (Plus enjoy the new fotm scrub build)

The problem with Dragon Hunter is that they do everything too well.
It wouldn’t be too bad if they had 1 or 2 strong points but they’re too strong because they’re good at too many things at once.

My problems with them:
-Too much damage
-Too much CC
-Too much survivability

I’m not saying they should get nerfed in all of these aspects. I’m saying that all 3 together make them too strong.

Their damage wouldn’t be a problem at all if it wasn’t for their CC & survivability.

I feel like Dragon Hunters are supposed to do damage & have good CC (or at least i feel like they were designed around the idea of dealing damage and surviving through kiting with CC.)

However I feel like they have way too much survivability. Especially with Renewed Focus and F3.

Despite that I feel like the thing that makes them too strong is the fact that they can force people off point so easily.

Yes the traps can be avoided by simply dodging as soon as activated but that leads to the main problem of having to go off point, enabling the enemy to decap, cap AND defend just with traps.

From a design perspective I feel they need their survivability nerfed.
But from an actual balance perspective I feel like their traps are what needs nerfing.

To much damage? wth?? i do 800 damage with my mace on soldier stats….and 1.2k crits… warriors, rev, hits over 10k on bunker guards…wich is no existent in spvp.
DH\Guard is forced to be in meditrap based builds to actually be in pair with other classes, and good players dont have problem with DH’s.

If traps get nerfed some Warrior and Rev damage output on some skills need to be toned down to, it is to easy to achieve high damage builds on this game with poor sacrifices on some classes, and DH is not one of them, at least not top on this area.

And just one traps does some very high damage, even on bunky stats i can do damage with that trap, i actually hate to use traps on DH, most time i feel a bit carried.
But sadly, Guardian traps need to work like they are working (sadly) for guardian be in pair with other classes damage output capability… wich is all that matters in this game, aoe damage.

Aeolus.3615:

To much damage? wth?? i do 800 damage with my mace on soldier stats….and 1.2k crits… warriors, rev, hits over 10k on bunker guards…wich is no existent in spvp.
DH\Guard is forced to be in meditrap based builds to actually be in pair with other classes, and good players dont have problem with DH’s.

If traps get nerfed some Warrior and Rev damage output on some skills need to be toned down to, it is to easy to achieve high damage builds on this game with poor sacrifices on some classes, and DH is not one of them, at least not top on this area.

And just one traps does some very high damage, even on bunky stats i can do damage with that trap, i actually hate to use traps on DH, most time i feel a bit carried.
But sadly, Guardian traps need to work like they are working (sadly) for guardian be in pair with other classes damage output capability… wich is all that matters in this game, aoe damage.

I know this post is nerf guardians, but i agree with you.

I mean all classes need relooked at since the HOT spec line came in. All the skill Cool Downs need looked at as some of the traits.

Like in 1 vs 1, all classes can survive or stalemate for extreme amounts of time. Yet if 1 person comes to help its instant death. Every class in the game is forced to play a form of DPS.

Its guardians right now but if they nerf that it will be something else simply because Anet refuses to balance PvP.

If anything, nerf DH longbow #5… if they want to camp a cap and sit in all their traps, fine, but don’t give them that godkitten nobrain skill to just reel everyone into those traps. Staying out of range on DH traps, you range them down in no time, they’re butter, esp to condis once they’re out of cleanses..

Yesterday I fought against a team with 3 DH and my team won blowout. We where all solos.

I am playing Scrapper with a more damage oriented buil than the meta and I have no problems against DHs most of the times but Necromancer and condi mesmers gives me a real challenge.

Not saying that DHs not needs a rewiev sometimes their traps can kill you almost instantly with near to no tells. Like when they have put all traps at a point and left.

Also sometimes I think that traps has to low CD or some players hack or exploit something as they can put down one of the traps 3 times under a minute. 1 pre-casted before I arrive, one after I have sprung the first traps and another one during the fight. I can usually fall a DH in less than a minute if they have all blocks invulns at hand, if not they go down in seconds.

I feel like guardians are ballanced. If you want to kill Guardians do this:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQNApeUjMdQdHWFCehAnIWUCMl32o7JckFCA1s3c7vN5C-TJRBwAPeCAAOFAkLDcd/BA

Its not about the 1 vs 1, almost every class at a high level of play beats a DH in a 1 vs 1.

Its the average to below average who gets caught with there spear of justice after falling into the trap and then knocked back out with shield 5. Or what ever combination you want to throw in, the average-below average player might not win that fight.

There was a thread where a player who mains Guardian who said they dont lose to X class in 1 vs 1 and there comment came from watching storm in a AG weekly. So skill and timing is still important in 1 vs 1 but DH has a really low curve play with a above average reward.

My problem with DH is the premade set up. 1 ele 3 dh and a ranger. Ranger takes home and 3 DH go mid with a ele. The constant heals and shields and traps are unbelievable.

I can recall a match this season where they were a 4-1 and it was 3 DH, 1 engy and a mesmer. We actually downed one of there DH at mid and they started spamming traps like crazy to stop us from stomping. 2 people on our team got mad and said something like just cleave but you cant sit in the trap either.

Is there a counter to this? Of course but the issue with ranked is balance/roles/skill/classes and then throw in team comps and the meta. I get a team with a ele thief warrior and rev. The thief will get constantly downed from trap and ele will get interrupted on every attempted overload. Ele without ranger/guardian/engy to help with heals is no good and thief atm isnt any good as well unless the thief can go far to win that 1 vs 1.

The issue isnt 1 vs 1, its that everyone is playing it because its easy and it easily counters other classes. Also it takes a slightly higher skill ceiling to kill a good one and even if you do it will take you a incredibly long time.

If you were to make a team of 5 of the same class i think that druid would be 1 and DH 2 since they can both do lots of damage and they both give team support in condi clears/ heals/ and boons.

kdaddy.5431:

Aeolus.3615:

To much damage? wth?? i do 800 damage with my mace on soldier stats….and 1.2k crits… warriors, rev, hits over 10k on bunker guards…wich is no existent in spvp.
DH\Guard is forced to be in meditrap based builds to actually be in pair with other classes, and good players dont have problem with DH’s.

If traps get nerfed some Warrior and Rev damage output on some skills need to be toned down to, it is to easy to achieve high damage builds on this game with poor sacrifices on some classes, and DH is not one of them, at least not top on this area.

And just one traps does some very high damage, even on bunky stats i can do damage with that trap, i actually hate to use traps on DH, most time i feel a bit carried.
But sadly, Guardian traps need to work like they are working (sadly) for guardian be in pair with other classes damage output capability… wich is all that matters in this game, aoe damage.

I know this post is nerf guardians, but i agree with you.

I mean all classes need relooked at since the HOT spec line came in. All the skill Cool Downs need looked at as some of the traits.

Like in 1 vs 1, all classes can survive or stalemate for extreme amounts of time. Yet if 1 person comes to help its instant death. Every class in the game is forced to play a form of DPS.

Its guardians right now but if they nerf that it will be something else simply because Anet refuses to balance PvP.

Well about high damage Thief and Berserker should be the classes with most damage output, im not against all classes doing the same, but some should perform better than others wich in this game it is a complete mess ( worst game balance and class design ever ).

Anet is making the gw2 also verry newb friendly players dont need to learn much in this game beside the simpliest thing has skill animation and know that their build hits very hard, wich Anet dont care about classes limitations, every class will do high damage, some better than the class that should be dealign the high damage.

Alot of classes have a very flawled concept to be played in pvp they are more for pve spamming, one of the reason that gw2 didnt had much viewers they tend to make people run away from the game than actually atrack more players, and who knows if game was less pve designed that would had bring known esl groups to the game.

At this point gw2 is know to be a awfull pvp game, the game balance actually damage alot the game int the last 2 years.

Darknicrofia.2604:

This is no different than season 2’s necro stacking, and necros in season 2 were infinitely more oppressive when stacked in numbers on a node than DHs that aren’t running full traps.

Any meta build when stacked presents problems

stacking warriors? lol good luck spending more than 2 seconds in a fight being not dazed with 10+ stacks of bleeding/burning/torment/confusion on you.

stacking thieves? lol 100-0’d

stacking revs? lol staff 5 100-0’d

stacking mesmers? WTB new tab key, no wait i’m a moa now…and im dead.

the only class that doesn’t do much when stacked is eles, but eles in general need a ton of help, they’re the DHs of season 3.

Can people get it out of the discussion that the offensive build is full traps, it’s not.

Problem with dh is not that it’s stupid op the problem is its stupid op class stacking.

This is seriously out of control. Guardians REALLY are not that bad.

R O C.6574:

This is seriously out of control. Guardians REALLY are not that bad.

There have been plenty of people who play DH who have said the same thing. Far too effective for the effort to play. This has become the replacement for the last few seasons of scrappers.

Pyriall.1683:

R O C.6574:

This is seriously out of control. Guardians REALLY are not that bad.

There have been plenty of people who play DH who have said the same thing. Far too effective for the effort to play. This has become the replacement for the last few seasons of scrappers.

In my opinion, what makes Guardian so effective right now is the ability to consistently decap a point while fighting your opponent. Is guardian in a better place than before? Yes. Is it OP? Not really.

R O C.6574:

Pyriall.1683:

R O C.6574:

This is seriously out of control. Guardians REALLY are not that bad.

There have been plenty of people who play DH who have said the same thing. Far too effective for the effort to play. This has become the replacement for the last few seasons of scrappers.

In my opinion, what makes Guardian so effective right now is the ability to consistently decap a point while fighting your opponent. Is guardian in a better place than before? Yes. Is it OP? Not really.

It is far too effective for the effort to play. Very similarly to the previous seasons of scrappers. You couldn’t tell a good one from a bad one.

I don’t think the problem is guardians…they are supposed to be tanky and their damage is reasonable. The noticeable difference is the removal of bunker amulets so other classes can’t tank similarly. The other thing that is unmentioned here to my knowledge is the new maps especially have small pads for caps, so unlike say Khylo where there is possibility to be on a pad and not in a trap, that is not the case here. Mesmer and Necro wells as well as DH traps make contesting pts nearly impossible if you are not able to absorb damage for a duration.

They remove bunking for most, so classes that can still bunk truly stand out, since their blocks, heals and evades still function to that effect. As much Stronghold hate is out there, I think it lends itself to more diversity of builds since instead of trying hold points your focus is eliminating, protecting, and summoning targets. This is not a Stronghold promotion, but it makes me wonder if the devs should expand their pvp maps and concepts to more than just capture pts, dare I say run the flag or something like huttball? The skills in this game function the same for the most part in pvp and wvw, and the complaints against DH are not nearly as outspoken in wvw forums so is the class really so OP?

I think the problem is the structure of PvP.