Guild Wars 2

Plz fix this one, they press 3 and only need to spam that skill with a bit of dodging in between killing entire teams, because they are abusing evading stuff like mad.
I have purposely not use this build on my thief, because i already found it stupid and no need for any skill to use it.
But its now getting to the point that it really really needs a nerf,
To make it more clear, they burst you with not only power dps, but also condi bursting, they can non stop evade and dont need invisibility and they have non stop cleanse.
The only way to stop it wich is very hard to do, because of the jumping spam to lock them down and finish directly or else its jumping fest all over.
This should be nerfed, i mean seeing complete teams also die because of this build, think about it if you have a team full of those thieves, they can litterly and easily beat everything.

Not broken really. Only broken if you don’t know how to fight it. Easiest way to beat them, get a dragon hunter, drop some traps, laugh as they can’t dodge out of Dragon’s Maw.

Dirame.8521:

Not broken really. Only broken if you don’t know how to fight it. Easiest way to beat them, get a dragon hunter, drop some traps, laugh as they can’t dodge out of Dragon’s Maw.

They have feats with it now that they also can dodge that, also at this point you are in a team and even if i like it as much as possible you cannot fulfill every single role at the same time.
Also only 1 counter out of all builds is not the best option to go most of the time.

Is this meta in Amber, or why have I never meet such a thief?

Staff thief does hit like a truck, and when used with bounding dodger trait the dodge does additional 3kish damage. The condi cleanse they have on evade is easily countered by condi bomb /ignore as they can only cleanse on evading an attack. Also, these thieves can easily die to any one of the random AOE/Cleave that is being spammed by all the other classes. Keep and eye on the thief and time your attack to hit them when they land. Hit them in between dodges and its gg.

Luto.1938:

Staff thief does hit like a truck, and when used with bounding dodger trait the dodge does additional 3kish damage. The condi cleanse they have on evade is easily countered by condi bomb /ignore as they can only cleanse on evading an attack. Also, these thieves can easily die to any one of the random AOE/Cleave that is being spammed by all the other classes. Keep and eye on the thief and time your attack to hit them when they land. Hit them in between dodges and its gg.

Well they mostly go dd with it and they also bomb you with non stop condi’s themselves while they are non stop cleansing themselves without even the need to evade something first, just by doing that jump they are cleansing.
Also even people i know that are diamond level players and some are even higher then that call this OP, but there is a good side though, barely anyone uses this exact build (maybe more will be doing this), i also noticed that not many have truly faced it and are only theorycrafting here wich is something different then actually playing against it (the time them standing and jumping again, is so short if it was a little bit longer i could hit them yes, but lets say the time they stand is less then 0,1 sec.

Whenever I see a thief on the other team in sPvP I think “oh wow, a mediocre class.” Not once have I run into a thief that concerned me.

In wvw they concern me, but not in sPvP.

snarfrificus.4230:

Luto.1938:

Staff thief does hit like a truck, and when used with bounding dodger trait the dodge does additional 3kish damage. The condi cleanse they have on evade is easily countered by condi bomb /ignore as they can only cleanse on evading an attack. Also, these thieves can easily die to any one of the random AOE/Cleave that is being spammed by all the other classes. Keep and eye on the thief and time your attack to hit them when they land. Hit them in between dodges and its gg.

Well they mostly go dd with it and they also bomb you with non stop condi’s themselves while they are non stop cleansing themselves without even the need to evade something first, just by doing that jump they are cleansing.
Also even people i know that are diamond level players and some are even higher then that call this OP, but there is a good side though, barely anyone uses this exact build (maybe more will be doing this), i also noticed that not many have truly faced it and are only theorycrafting here wich is something different then actually playing against it (the time them standing and jumping again, is so short if it was a little bit longer i could hit them yes, but lets say the time they stand is less then 0,1 sec.

I don’t play the spec I have in the past but there is a lot more time than you give credit for, the DB has a full cast time of 1/2 sec and the evade is only 1/4 sec long leaving 1/4 sec, this is on top of if they don’t have the energy or the initiative to pull off another dodge, this leaves quite a few opportunities for any immobilizing cc since the D/D DB thief build can’t clear immob on dodges immobs will ensure they die. There are counters it’s just annoying to face.

I haven’t seen a staff version of this build at any point this season could be that I started in sapphire.

You haven’t fought a thief that knows their profession well then. Thieves can easily control the outcome of a match because of their extraordinary decap & +1ing abilities. Thieves can easily force your team to be restricted to going after only home + mid… Unless your team has a thief too. A sucky thief will definitely bring a team down more than another profession played poorly

This build is not broken, it is just… not fun. Just like DH was: balanced, but with unblockable CC traps, invisible walls and random knockbacks. But not being fun in the eye of some people is not a good reason to get nerfed, so we’ll just have to swallow our pride and learn to live with them.

They are actually rather easy to fight: kite them to make their waste their dodges and to tilt them, land a CC at the very end of their Death Blossom (or in the very beginning), or interrupt Channeled Vigor. But above all, please: let one guy duel him on close, and that’s it. I’ve lost games because of some random scrappers/druids/warriors or even eles (!) were 2v1ing a condi thief on close.

mrauls.6519:

You haven’t fought a thief that knows their profession well then. Thieves can easily control the outcome of a match because of their extraordinary decap & +1ing abilities.

D/D, staff Thieves have no decap-abilities because they miss SB. I would say any Thief without SB is really bad because he can’t fulfill his role.

D’oh, thieves with dd! Sorry

Sorel.4870:

This build is not broken, it is just… not fun. Just like DH was: balanced, but with unblockable CC traps, invisible walls and random knockbacks. But not being fun in the eye of some people is not a good reason to get nerfed, so we’ll just have to swallow our pride and learn to live with them.

They are actually rather easy to fight: kite them to make their waste their dodges and to tilt them, land a CC at the very end of their Death Blossom (or in the very beginning), or interrupt Channeled Vigor. But above all, please: let one guy duel him on close, and that’s it. I’ve lost games because of some random scrappers/druids/warriors or even eles (!) were 2v1ing a condi thief on close.

You cannot kite them, because they also ranged attack you and burst you with condi’s while doing these dodges and they can to infinite do this, they barely need to dodge, i have counted this with my guildie once every couple of minutes they needed to dodge once to continue the spam.
Also it seems you really never ever used this build.

I should fight one. I expect a very long fight but i guess he will loose. In PvP this might be a problem due to extreamly long fights and so point holding even in 1:2. Don´t realy know because i don´t meet them. Even P/P seems more common ….

Neither one of those is the version I would be worried about. The other variants, yes they are very strong.

snarfrificus.4230:

You cannot kite them, because they also ranged attack you

Ranged attack you???
How?
A D/D, staff thief has no real ranged weapon.

Shylock.4653:

snarfrificus.4230:

You cannot kite them, because they also ranged attack you

Ranged attack you???
How?
A D/D, staff thief has no real ranged weapon.

And i still got some ranged attack to my head even in between the jumps.

Make a thief and play these builds that you think are so godly.

Dancing dagger dosnt really do much, nor can you say it’s an ‘attack’, dust strike is ok but it’s only good if it crits. Not really bothered with condi stuff so I haven’t seen what range the Condi dodge does. I guess that is ’ranged attack.

snarfrificus.4230:

just by doing that jump they are cleansing.

Alright, how are they cleansing conditions just by “jumping”? Since you say you’ve played the build, surely you must know.

He means deathblossom https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Escapist's_Absolution

He might mean that, but he said in the same sentence that “they don’t need to evade anything”, so if he’s referencing Escapist’s Absolution he’s demonstrating a lack of knowledge on how Daredevil works. So rather than just calling him out on that and saying he has no idea what he’s talking about, I’m giving him a chance to explain, since I might be overlooking something myself.

Xiahou Mao.9701:

snarfrificus.4230:

just by doing that jump they are cleansing.

Alright, how are they cleansing conditions just by “jumping”? Since you say you’ve played the build, surely you must know.

This is something that gets really close to it(found it on reddit), but if you have some server latency you are not able to counter him at any way also he is cleaning himself just by jumping in between, so he wasnt afraid fo anything. Also saying it that it was my own skill of not able to catch it, the one using it say he had an easy time in diamond with it, so are people all that bad or…?

Also i dont like to use ‘cheese’ builds where you press only 1 button, its just to simple…
And this could have accidentally happend after the last patch or anything and/or there is something in that build that alot of people dont know about yet.

quote:
If i had to guess, i’d say he did a mix of d/d #3 Death Blossom and the DD dodge Lotus Training to increase the damage without running out of both initiative and endurance, could say that he was using acrobatics minor trait Feline Grace to make sure he never ran out of dodges and the major trait Upper hand for the initiative, now i dont know about the last traitline or amulet/rune, but i’d say he had Sigil of Agony in one of the daggers(only way he could get 20+ bleed stacks), now i’d say the reason why he got all 3 of you is because you got too confident on the “1v3 against a thief” and payed more attention to him evading everything other than cleaning the stacks properly(one single condition wont hurt much unless you have 10+ stacks) it was either that or you guys wasted the condi cleanse too fast and the ele overlaped the group condi cleanse. Thats just what i can guess based on what you said about the fight.
Now to counter that, death blossom spam can be neutralized if you manage to CC him right after the landing on the whirl, is either that or the start of the skill animation when you have a chance to avoid the spam.

Also the last part of the quote how to counter it, again with server latency this is not really possible to do. And he has a free game.

snarfrificus.4230:

This is something that gets really close to it(found it on reddit), but if you have some server latency you are not able to counter him at any way

Shockingly, having lag makes it hard to time things. That applies to all classes and all builds. I can dodge Headbutt on reaction, but someone in Australia probably can’t.

Death Blossom is still incredibly telegraphed, particularly if it’s being spammed over and over. If you can’t react in time to the first one because of lag, use the first one to prepare for the second one and time your attack to hit at the end of it. If you can’t do even that, then your playing conditions simply do not allow for you to successfully PvP, or do anything else that requires somewhat strict timing.

also he is cleaning himself just by jumping in between, so he wasnt afraid fo anything.

I’ll ask again. How is he ‘cleaning himself’? The Escapist’s Absolution trait will cleanse conditions when you successfully evade attacks. Thus, your solution is to not give him any attacks to evade when he has conditions applied. You stop swinging at him and let him die. You claim that he doesn’t need to dodge to cleanse conditions, so I’m asking how he’s doing it. If you can’t tell me what trait or skill he’s using to remove conditions, then it looks like this is going back to “learn to play” territory. If you want this evade thief to die to the conditions you apply, stop granting him the ability to cleanse them through your own actions.

Map “Stow Weapon” to a key on your keyboard. Use it, stand still for a little bit, and watch him die.

Also saying it that it was my own skill of not able to catch it, the one using it say he had an easy time in diamond with it, so are people all that bad or…?

A lot of people are bad, yes. Many people can’t adapt to builds that do different things. Many people panic on seeing they have a single stack of bleed and burn their condition removal early, only to be left unable to do anything when they get ten stacks later. Many people are unaware that against this type of thief, it’s better to not attack in the evade frames and grant them their sustain. Many people are unable to pause and properly time their attacks rather than flailing around aimlessly.

Also i dont like to use ‘cheese’ builds where you press only 1 button, its just to simple…
And this could have accidentally happend after the last patch or anything and/or there is something in that build that alot of people dont know about yet.

This has existed since Heart of Thorns came out. It’s nothing new. You don’t see it too often because it’s just not very good. Playing as a Warrior lets you maintain better condi pressure with condi removal that isn’t dependent on dodging attacks, more HP and toughness, pulsing Stability, Resistance access and lots of CC.

If you’re having trouble dealing with this type of thief, stop and learn about it. You’ll learn how to counter it. Going onto a forum and complaining about “infinite dodges” that each have vulnerability periods at the end, and “ranged attacks” on an entirely melee Dagger-Dagger/Staff build, just makes it look like you have no idea what you’re talking about.

snarfrificus.4230:

You cannot kite them, because they also ranged attack you and burst you with condi’s while doing these dodges and they can to infinite do this, they barely need to dodge, i have counted this with my guildie once every couple of minutes they needed to dodge once to continue the spam.
Also it seems you really never ever used this build.

Do you know the names of the skills? Your description of your experience is difficult to understand because you’re not using an explicit terminology.

“Ranged atacks”. On d/d, it is hard to close the gap. spamming dodges and dead blossom tipically doesn’t work, because the range is bad, so you CAN kite them. They can try to HS to you, but HS is very punishable. Or throw a dagger to cripple you, so watch out for this animation and punish.

One way or another, this build needs a lot of initiative and endurance regeneration. So tipically, they run Roll for Initiative and Channeled Vigor. Your best bet is then to interrupt Channeled Vigor. You sound unfamiliar with the build, but it’s when the thief is glowing, arms to his flanks, head up.

Also, if him cleansing annoys you, just don’t attack. He only cures condition when evading an attack, so condi burst him, and then wait for him to kill himself with confusion.

Seems to me like someone who can actually play thief without the metabattle build did sPvP last night and happened to get in a game with the biggest crybabies GW2 can muster, who were then outraged when their standard rotation they read about didn’t work.

Death blossom condi thieves are NOT fun to fight.

I hear many just simply saying L2P in the end, also i aint crying about it, i just saw a friend of mine doing it today and rofl stomping people on diamond level of pvp, THEY HAD NO COUNTER. I have with that seen it once before and its that i was just focusing on the points wich was like its only weakness, he could beat an entire team on his own. (and i mean the set up of an trap dragonhunter, aoe condi bleed burns pam fest warrior etc etc, so yeah he barely got dmg)
I hope this makes it clear, ofc i dont know every single skill at the same time though, i dont cry about the first cc or any condition that hits me, i am quite experienced in pvp also in other games (like bdo and have been in one of the top guilds there on jordine (iron)).
So yeah i know how to pvp and if i see something broken, i report it like i saw it today, even my other mate was laughing about how broken this is and he is almost legendary level in pvp in this game.

He is cleansing without doing anything wich means it can even have something to do with that there are simply just some animation cancels going on that an thief may have.
But it also seems that barely anybody is seeing them wich when they are hidden for most people, but once you see one in a game it rofl stomp even the highest of players lol like i have seen before.
The only weakness what i possibly saw it that it cannot jump from place to place, unless it uses his short bow.

Also what you guys come with are what i call extremes compared to counters of other classes, wich means in the end of the day its still broken.

Specially if i get a simple hint of stop the first or second one or let it simply go, this means it isnt right and that people should know better also if the server is lagging it isnt the fault of the player always xD, i live in the Netherlands and have a good internet connection.

Also to respond to the fact about ‘terminology’ give me a break if you main a thief yourself by only hearing certain things you should know what it is and it seems at the end of the day many so called thieves here still dont know what i am completely talking about, wich means that people are really full of themself.

Again i only reported this and not for crying, but for an better future in the pvp of this game. If nobody does anything with it fine by me, i simply care and it seems that many do not :P.
Or now that i think about it maybe some of them are playing this and feel very threatened by the fact somebody reports it and comes with so called counters to it, wich they know themselves it simply sounds silly.

snarfrificus.4230:

Plz fix this one, they press 3 and only need to spam that skill with a bit of dodging in between killing entire teams, because they are abusing evading stuff like mad.
I have purposely not use this build on my thief, because i already found it stupid and no need for any skill to use it.
But its now getting to the point that it really really needs a nerf,
To make it more clear, they burst you with not only power dps, but also condi bursting, they can non stop evade and dont need invisibility and they have non stop cleanse.
The only way to stop it wich is very hard to do, because of the jumping spam to lock them down and finish directly or else its jumping fest all over.
This should be nerfed, i mean seeing complete teams also die because of this build, think about it if you have a team full of those thieves, they can litterly and easily beat everything.

My warrior met a thief trying this today. He got “rekt” every time. I’m sure if the thief is competent it’s a problem. But my.money is on AoE killing him quick.

BrotherBelial.3094:

snarfrificus.4230:

Plz fix this one, they press 3 and only need to spam that skill with a bit of dodging in between killing entire teams, because they are abusing evading stuff like mad.
I have purposely not use this build on my thief, because i already found it stupid and no need for any skill to use it.
But its now getting to the point that it really really needs a nerf,
To make it more clear, they burst you with not only power dps, but also condi bursting, they can non stop evade and dont need invisibility and they have non stop cleanse.
The only way to stop it wich is very hard to do, because of the jumping spam to lock them down and finish directly or else its jumping fest all over.
This should be nerfed, i mean seeing complete teams also die because of this build, think about it if you have a team full of those thieves, they can litterly and easily beat everything.

My warrior met a thief trying this today. He got “rekt” every time. I’m sure if the thief is competent it’s a problem. But my.money is on AoE killing him quick.

Then you havent faced the right one, sorry.

snarfrificus.4230:

BrotherBelial.3094:

snarfrificus.4230:

Plz fix this one, they press 3 and only need to spam that skill with a bit of dodging in between killing entire teams, because they are abusing evading stuff like mad.
I have purposely not use this build on my thief, because i already found it stupid and no need for any skill to use it.
But its now getting to the point that it really really needs a nerf,
To make it more clear, they burst you with not only power dps, but also condi bursting, they can non stop evade and dont need invisibility and they have non stop cleanse.
The only way to stop it wich is very hard to do, because of the jumping spam to lock them down and finish directly or else its jumping fest all over.
This should be nerfed, i mean seeing complete teams also die because of this build, think about it if you have a team full of those thieves, they can litterly and easily beat everything.

My warrior met a thief trying this today. He got “rekt” every time. I’m sure if the thief is competent it’s a problem. But my.money is on AoE killing him quick.

Then you havent faced the right one, sorry.

That’s why I said, “if the thief is competent then it might be a problem”

To some of you, im sure hes talking about two different builds, d/d probably sb (i run this when i get tired of 50/50 wins, and i harass far all game) i run that with the condi dodge (ranged dodge) and caltrops on dodge and the skill too and the heal signet, and the signet that refills endurance.. Edit: forgot roll for initiative, i can hit 3 on d/d for evade and condi, and 3 on sb for cc and evade Pretty godly lol

I havent tried the staff build.. If anyone wanna send that my way

snarfrificus.4230:

also i aint crying about it

It sounds like you’re crying about it.

he could beat an entire team on his own. (and i mean the set up of an trap dragonhunter, aoe condi bleed burns pam fest warrior etc etc, so yeah he barely got dmg)

The Death Blossom spamming build should never beat entire teams. Once again, you’re just exaggerating things to try to make yourself feel better after losing to a weak build.

If it was that good, you’d see people using it at the highest levels of play. I don’t see people using it at the highest levels of play, I barely see it in use at normal levels of play. That’s not because it “hasn’t caught on yet”, it’s because it’s simply not good.

So yeah i know how to pvp and if i see something broken, i report it like i saw it today, even my other mate was laughing about how broken this is and he is almost legendary level in pvp in this game.

Do you trust your “almost legendary” friend, or the people playing the game in the Pro League to compete for actual money? Your “almost legendary” friend seems to think this is broken, but no top players are actually using it. Your friend is probably just humouring you because he doesn’t want you to feel bad for losing to a weak build.

He is cleansing without doing anything wich means it can even have something to do with that there are simply just some animation cancels going on that an thief may have.

Explain these animation cancels, please, and how they can cleanse conditions without doing anything.

But it also seems that barely anybody is seeing them wich when they are hidden for most people, but once you see one in a game it rofl stomp even the highest of players lol like i have seen before.

People have seen this. Several people fooled around with it when Heart of Thorns launched and Thief was in a weak spot in PvP. It can catch people off-guard sometimes, but once they learn what it does, it’s easy to shut down. There are some builds that are ill-suited to fight it, but given that its damage comes entirely from bleed applications, anyone with a modicum of condition cleanses can survive it.

See, if you’re really the ‘good PvP player’ you claim to be, your reaction to this would be to take your friend who’s “beating entire teams on his own” with it and enter a custom game, face him one on one, and learn what you can do and can’t do against it. You can learn the timing on CCs, figure out exactly how it is he’s cleansing conditions magically, and improve your game in the process. You can learn how to beat this. And hey, there are people here trying to help you. I’m giving you advice, too! But when your reaction to receiving advice is to shout it down, to claim things are broken, and to continue to display ignorance of the build being played (despite allegedly having friends who use it themselves), that is not the sign of a good PvP player. That’s the sign of a whiner who feels entitled to win every game, and who complains on seeing an oddball build that’s not the typical Metabattle one (and for good reason) which gets the upper hand on him.

Get your friend, play against him, practice what we’ve said in this topic. You’ll learn that the build really isn’t that strong, and that’s why you rarely see it. It’s not overpowered. It’s annoying and gimmicky, yes, but it’s easily beaten, if you put in half the effort to learning to play against it as you have been writing angry posts about it.

Camon, guys, just try to not whine for everything…Every build that use just 2 skills to win, is a dumb build easy to fight.

Just use aoe skills to watch they die flying. Or just get the right moment to hit/stun or whatever.

Use your immagination, fgs -.-

Best thing to know: Use stun or daze at the end of their evade frame then sneeze on him, or use AoE.

The weaknesses of this build are quite glaring. Yes it does catch some people off guard but in all honesty if you know how it works it’s really easy to beat.

My main is thief, I have used this build. Things I noticed from playing it, your mobility is impaired, cc will destroy you if it catches you. Being kited or ranged will make your life difficult. If you trait and pick utilities to counter some of these weaknesses you limit your already weak condi dmg application. You literally are relying on bleed, a bit of torment and the occasional poison. I’d say your biggest damage dealer is the confusion on steal every 20+ seconds.

I got called a troll by a thief running this very build when I was on my Ranger. I was literally not attacking him, I would let him apply his condi burst then would insta cleanse it and heal. Basically if you have any type of condi cleanse or sustain you will out heal this build. Plus it helped that I knew the build.

Another tip, they really can’t evade forever. It seems so but bad players will burn their resources within 20s and will try to retreat. Better players might last longer about 40s or so but depending on pressure they will all pull back to recover a bit, which is when you need to strike as everything will be on cool down or low.

The staff thing is another thing entirely that I can’t comment on as I’ve been destroyed by some in 2 hits but some I’ve killed in 1 burst.

AsiraasiB.7165:

To some of you, im sure hes talking about two different builds, d/d probably sb (i run this when i get tired of 50/50 wins, and i harass far all game) i run that with the condi dodge (ranged dodge) and caltrops on dodge and the skill too and the heal signet, and the signet that refills endurance.. Edit: forgot roll for initiative, i can hit 3 on d/d for evade and condi, and 3 on sb for cc and evade Pretty godly lol

I havent tried the staff build.. If anyone wanna send that my way

Every other post not needed anymore, this guy has it.
Also i aint whining there are just extremes and i see people keep coming with excuses, i also dont have any issue with any other build out there, so i aint that bad i would say myself LOL.
But the amount of salt i get over me here is really extreme,

here guys more salt:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11119/111193741/4611197-1558627468-77999.jpg

Xiahou Mao.9701:

snarfrificus.4230:

also i aint crying about it

It sounds like you’re crying about it.

he could beat an entire team on his own. (and i mean the set up of an trap dragonhunter, aoe condi bleed burns pam fest warrior etc etc, so yeah he barely got dmg)

The Death Blossom spamming build should never beat entire teams. Once again, you’re just exaggerating things to try to make yourself feel better after losing to a weak build.

If it was that good, you’d see people using it at the highest levels of play. I don’t see people using it at the highest levels of play, I barely see it in use at normal levels of play. That’s not because it “hasn’t caught on yet”, it’s because it’s simply not good.

So yeah i know how to pvp and if i see something broken, i report it like i saw it today, even my other mate was laughing about how broken this is and he is almost legendary level in pvp in this game.

Do you trust your “almost legendary” friend, or the people playing the game in the Pro League to compete for actual money? Your “almost legendary” friend seems to think this is broken, but no top players are actually using it. Your friend is probably just humouring you because he doesn’t want you to feel bad for losing to a weak build.

He is cleansing without doing anything wich means it can even have something to do with that there are simply just some animation cancels going on that an thief may have.

Explain these animation cancels, please, and how they can cleanse conditions without doing anything.

But it also seems that barely anybody is seeing them wich when they are hidden for most people, but once you see one in a game it rofl stomp even the highest of players lol like i have seen before.

People have seen this. Several people fooled around with it when Heart of Thorns launched and Thief was in a weak spot in PvP. It can catch people off-guard sometimes, but once they learn what it does, it’s easy to shut down. There are some builds that are ill-suited to fight it, but given that its damage comes entirely from bleed applications, anyone with a modicum of condition cleanses can survive it.

See, if you’re really the ‘good PvP player’ you claim to be, your reaction to this would be to take your friend who’s “beating entire teams on his own” with it and enter a custom game, face him one on one, and learn what you can do and can’t do against it. You can learn the timing on CCs, figure out exactly how it is he’s cleansing conditions magically, and improve your game in the process. You can learn how to beat this. And hey, there are people here trying to help you. I’m giving you advice, too! But when your reaction to receiving advice is to shout it down, to claim things are broken, and to continue to display ignorance of the build being played (despite allegedly having friends who use it themselves), that is not the sign of a good PvP player. That’s the sign of a whiner who feels entitled to win every game, and who complains on seeing an oddball build that’s not the typical Metabattle one (and for good reason) which gets the upper hand on him.

Get your friend, play against him, practice what we’ve said in this topic. You’ll learn that the build really isn’t that strong, and that’s why you rarely see it. It’s not overpowered. It’s annoying and gimmicky, yes, but it’s easily beaten, if you put in half the effort to learning to play against it as you have been writing angry posts about it.

Joke is we did and we both used it against each other and no way to beat it, not with the timing either even if we had it perfect of let him stand a bit longer. Also you dont know me, still again you judge me. I am an openminded guy, but when i see cheese its obviously cheese, specially when there is only 1 way to do it and you need to specialize against this wich makes you weak against everything else, but you can COUNTER THIS BUILD. that is actually a big joke.
Sorry i cant take you seriously now anymore lol.

All these people need to stop crying. I think its awesome someone got creative.

In the beginning of the season you would have been laughed at as a condi thief, or if you ran anything but d/p power. Also I experimented with it and even “experts” on here swore up and down to use dash > the damaging dodge.

Congrats a build not on metabattle did well.

snarfrificus.4230:

Joke is we did and we both used it against each other and no way to beat it, not with the timing either even if we had it perfect of let him stand a bit longer.

It’s already been said earlier in the topic that this build can’t kill itself, because Escapist’s Absolution will nullify all the incoming condis on both sides. So using it against each other doesn’t accomplish anything. Play what you normally play against it instead. Then the timing matters, because you’ll actually be able to inflict damage once you capitalize instead of putting on this build’s dinky few bleeds that will be cleansed once the CC expires.

Also you dont know me, still again you judge me. I am an openminded guy, but when i see cheese its obviously cheese, specially when there is only 1 way to do it and you need to specialize against this wich makes you weak against everything else, but you can COUNTER THIS BUILD. that is actually a big joke.
Sorry i cant take you seriously now anymore lol.

You don’t need to specialize, you just need to time your abilities. You shouldn’t need to change anything out, the things that will help you are condition removal (which you should already be running) and a crowd control skill or two (ditto). No one has even mentioned the strongest counter to this yet, which is Retaliation, because that is something that most people don’t currently run and it’s silly to swap it in just for this weak, niche build.

I don’t really care if you take me seriously, because you’re talking about a single thief being able to take out entire teams alone, and about the ‘massive ranged attacks’ that a thief using two sets of melee weapons gets that prevents you from kiting. I’m just trying to help you become better at the game. I can’t force you to listen to me any more than I can force you to tell the truth in your posts.

snarfrificus.4230:

Joke is we did and we both used it against each other and no way to beat it, not with the timing either even if we had it perfect of let him stand a bit longer. Also you dont know me, still again you judge me. I am an openminded guy, but when i see cheese its obviously cheese, specially when there is only 1 way to do it and you need to specialize against this wich makes you weak against everything else, but you can COUNTER THIS BUILD. that is actually a big joke.
Sorry i cant take you seriously now anymore lol.

The joke is I can beat this build as a core (not daredevil) thief, full zerk, with only two, long cooldown cleanses. Everything about my build should die to a good condition build, yet I can beat this one. If I can counterplay a condi spam dd with my build, I’m sure you can make something work.

Sincerely,
L2P

Zodryn.4216:

snarfrificus.4230:

Joke is we did and we both used it against each other and no way to beat it, not with the timing either even if we had it perfect of let him stand a bit longer. Also you dont know me, still again you judge me. I am an openminded guy, but when i see cheese its obviously cheese, specially when there is only 1 way to do it and you need to specialize against this wich makes you weak against everything else, but you can COUNTER THIS BUILD. that is actually a big joke.
Sorry i cant take you seriously now anymore lol.

The joke is I can beat this build as a core (not daredevil) thief, full zerk, with only two, long cooldown cleanses. Everything about my build should die to a good condition build, yet I can beat this one. If I can counterplay a condi spam dd with my build, I’m sure you can make something work.

Sincerely,
L2P

In the time you are indeed using that, they are laughing and are like well we used actually nothing then just our main skill now with the extra’s.

Sincerely, dont be so full of yourself.

Xiahou Mao.9701:

snarfrificus.4230:

Joke is we did and we both used it against each other and no way to beat it, not with the timing either even if we had it perfect of let him stand a bit longer.

It’s already been said earlier in the topic that this build can’t kill itself, because Escapist’s Absolution will nullify all the incoming condis on both sides. So using it against each other doesn’t accomplish anything. Play what you normally play against it instead. Then the timing matters, because you’ll actually be able to inflict damage once you capitalize instead of putting on this build’s dinky few bleeds that will be cleansed once the CC expires.

Also you dont know me, still again you judge me. I am an openminded guy, but when i see cheese its obviously cheese, specially when there is only 1 way to do it and you need to specialize against this wich makes you weak against everything else, but you can COUNTER THIS BUILD. that is actually a big joke.
Sorry i cant take you seriously now anymore lol.

You don’t need to specialize, you just need to time your abilities. You shouldn’t need to change anything out, the things that will help you are condition removal (which you should already be running) and a crowd control skill or two (ditto). No one has even mentioned the strongest counter to this yet, which is Retaliation, because that is something that most people don’t currently run and it’s silly to swap it in just for this weak, niche build.

I don’t really care if you take me seriously, because you’re talking about a single thief being able to take out entire teams alone, and about the ‘massive ranged attacks’ that a thief using two sets of melee weapons gets that prevents you from kiting. I’m just trying to help you become better at the game. I can’t force you to listen to me any more than I can force you to tell the truth in your posts.

And its like what i said before, he could also fire ranged attacks while jumping and doing massive condi’s with that.

snarfrificus.4230:

And its like what i said before, he could also fire ranged attacks while jumping and doing massive condi’s with that.

Alright, I’m going to type slowly so that you can understand me.

What… ranged… attacks… is… he… using… with… Dagger… Dagger… Staff… as… his… weapon… sets…?

You just said yourself that you tested this with your friend. So you know the answer. Please enlighten me! I mean, if it’s the Bounding Lotus dodge, the range is quite small and it applies a single stack of Bleeding and Torment, so I’d hardly count that as a ‘ranged attack’ or ‘massive condis’.

Xiahou Mao.9701:

snarfrificus.4230:

And its like what i said before, he could also fire ranged attacks while jumping and doing massive condi’s with that.

Alright, I’m going to type slowly so that you can understand me.

What… ranged… attacks… is… he… using… with… Dagger… Dagger… Staff… as… his… weapon… sets…?

You just said yourself that you tested this with your friend. So you know the answer. Please enlighten me! I mean, if it’s the Bounding Lotus dodge, the range is quite small and it applies a single stack of Bleeding and Torment, so I’d hardly count that as a ‘ranged attack’ or ‘massive condis’.

he is trowing daggers while doing the jump and some ball of light after it wich is very very strange, without any fields… Also i have a very hard time understanding you and it gives me tons of condis, bleeding, torment, poison, blind and confusion. Also we only played a bit cause i had something called RL that was calling me for an epic quest in the outside and strange world.

That’s why I’m trying to type slowly, so that you can understand me. I want to help you, and understanding what you’re fighting is the first step towards being helped.

Death Blossom spam will generate a lot of bleeds. Thieves can only apply Torment by a certain trait on interrupts (which means no Bountiful Theft), by a Venom (no one uses Venoms), or by the Bounding Lotus dodge which applies a single stack per use. Poison can be applied by dagger attacks (like Death Blossom) if using the Dagger Master trait in Deadly Arts. Thieves can only access Confusion via a Grandmaster Trickery trait and they give up Sleight of Hand to do that, meaning their Steal won’t interrupt (and thus can’t trigger Torment).

None of these things are ranged, given the scenario you’re painting. Steal (w/Confusion) can be used at range and will bring the thief in to melee, but it’s on a 25 second cooldown without Sleight of Hand. So you’re left with stacks of Poison and Bleeding being the concerns.

Maybe I should be asking, what class is it that you’re playing when you’re trying to fight this? With the two classes I’ve been playing so far this season, Thief and Warrior, I can easily defeat this kind of Thief without needing to change my build at all, just by using my knowledge of how it works. My Thief can time a burst easily enough and cleanse whatever it inflicts with Escapist’s Absolution, while my Warrior can likewise do the same with a condi burst using Skull Grinder and then just stand there and do nothing while he dies to the condis (or, even better, use Shield Stance to block everything and give myself Might so he dies faster). So what are you playing?

I don’t know about this whole RL quest you say you’re taking, either. It doesn’t seem to be taking up enough of your time that you can’t post on the forum..

Xiahou Mao.9701:

That’s why I’m trying to type slowly, so that you can understand me. I want to help you, and understanding what you’re fighting is the first step towards being helped.

Death Blossom spam will generate a lot of bleeds. Thieves can only apply Torment by a certain trait on interrupts (which means no Bountiful Theft), by a Venom (no one uses Venoms), or by the Bounding Lotus dodge which applies a single stack per use. Poison can be applied by dagger attacks (like Death Blossom) if using the Dagger Master trait in Deadly Arts. Thieves can only access Confusion via a Grandmaster Trickery trait and they give up Sleight of Hand to do that, meaning their Steal won’t interrupt (and thus can’t trigger Torment).

None of these things are ranged, given the scenario you’re painting. Steal (w/Confusion) can be used at range and will bring the thief in to melee, but it’s on a 25 second cooldown without Sleight of Hand. So you’re left with stacks of Poison and Bleeding being the concerns.

Maybe I should be asking, what class is it that you’re playing when you’re trying to fight this? With the two classes I’ve been playing so far this season, Thief and Warrior, I can easily defeat this kind of Thief without needing to change my build at all, just by using my knowledge of how it works. My Thief can time a burst easily enough and cleanse whatever it inflicts with Escapist’s Absolution, while my Warrior can likewise do the same with a condi burst using Skull Grinder and then just stand there and do nothing while he dies to the condis (or, even better, use Shield Stance to block everything and give myself Might so he dies faster). So what are you playing?

I don’t know about this whole RL quest you say you’re taking, either. It doesn’t seem to be taking up enough of your time that you can’t post on the forum..

This is what i call being off and having a joke at times, specially when people are trying so hard but they never saw the exact thing a lot of other people are seeing. It seems at this point i was mistaken and there are 2 kinds of thieves playing this build, mindless spammers that you have faced and thieves how to know this guild perfectly wich you havent faced yet.
I play different classes and builds for pvp and i always play together with a friend or 2 who are diamond level. I dont really care about true ranking myself, because the game is way to gimmicky to be taken seriously, hence my first post that i simply report it.
I dont need help or anything, i just report it.
I will tell you now slowly….. i… just…. report…. it….
So was this fuss all needed?

snarfrificus.4230:

This is what i call being off and having a joke at times, specially when people are trying so hard but they never saw the exact thing a lot of other people are seeing. It seems at this point i was mistaken and there are 2 kinds of thieves playing this build, mindless spammers that you have faced and thieves how to know this guild perfectly wich you havent faced yet.

But that’s the thing, there is no real way to play the build ‘perfectly’. Death Blossom always has a period of vulnerability at the end after its evade, there’s no way to remove that. There’s also no way this build can inflict more than some gradual Bleeds and Poison, with the occasional spike of Confusion from Steal. The condition pressure pales next to what a Warrior or Necromancer can put out, so if you have enough condi cleanse to deal with those classes, you’ll easily be able to handle this, and if you don’t have enough condi cleanse then you’re having a lot of issues no matter what you fight.

When your primary offensive maneuver is something that locks you into a telegraphed animation for close to one second, that’s generally not a good thing.

I play different classes and builds for pvp and i always play together with a friend or 2 who are diamond level. I dont really care about true ranking myself, because the game is way to gimmicky to be taken seriously, hence my first post that i simply report it.
I dont need help or anything, i just report it.
I will tell you now slowly….. i… just…. report…. it….
So was this fuss all needed?

If you’re losing so badly to a weak, gimmicky build that you feel compelled to report it as broken, lie about its capabilities and say it’s capable of wiping out an entire team of players solo, then yes, you do need help.

Can you let me know what class you play? Then I can suggest ways for that class to deal with it and you can get the help you need.

snarfrificus.4230:

Xiahou Mao.9701:

snarfrificus.4230:

And its like what i said before, he could also fire ranged attacks while jumping and doing massive condi’s with that.

Alright, I’m going to type slowly so that you can understand me.

What… ranged… attacks… is… he… using… with… Dagger… Dagger… Staff… as… his… weapon… sets…?

You just said yourself that you tested this with your friend. So you know the answer. Please enlighten me! I mean, if it’s the Bounding Lotus dodge, the range is quite small and it applies a single stack of Bleeding and Torment, so I’d hardly count that as a ‘ranged attack’ or ‘massive condis’.

he is trowing daggers while doing the jump and some ball of light after it wich is very very strange, without any fields… Also i have a very hard time understanding you and it gives me tons of condis, bleeding, torment, poison, blind and confusion. Also we only played a bit cause i had something called RL that was calling me for an epic quest in the outside and strange world.

The ball of light was impairing daggers. It deals poison, slow, and immob. It’s on a 20s cooldown, travels slow, and has bright colors on each dagger (hence the “ball of light”).

You claim you saw a build that can kill whole teams, and is extremely hard to counter. Everyone else claims it’s easy to deal with when you know what you’re doing, and dies very easily to AoE spam. What are the odds that everyone else is wrong and you are right?

You speak from clearly limited experience with or against this build. Several of us have played thief for years, and others have played against thieves for years. This build has existed since HoT launched, and I’ve experienced it enough to say it’s good, but not anything meta shifting.

What’s going to happen is what always happens. People will cry over a non threatening thing on a class. Next balance patch they will destroy this build or the class. Thus forcing them to run only one viable build.

Thieves have been gutted patch after patch, finally they’re useful but people aren’t happy about that. Even when they are running a *gasp * non meta build. It’s almost like some people want all classes to be shoehorned into running only 1 build ever so they don’t have to consider a counter to multiple things in their build.

Honestly with this condi meta right now, if you can’t cleanse the stuff from this build you have bigger stuff to worry about than thieves.