Guild Wars 2

The personal score system is way off-base as far as indicating contribution to the game. It’s so far off-base that it often encourages bad behavior. A scoring system is great to have so I don’t think it should be removed, but I think it should be different.

The biggest flaw I see is that defending a point or keeping it contested awards nothing, yet it’s extremely crucial to success.

If we awarded 1 personal score for every 2-3 seconds while in combat on a node that is either neutral or controlled by you, that might both improve the accuracy of the score as well as encourage better rotations.

Thinking in terms of “individual rewards” for specific actions is the major flaw. The only reward that matters is the Win. When you start introducing individual rewards you create contradictory objectives for player vs team, which is one of the major problems we see now and why people do stupid things like hunt down both mobs on Forest before even glancing at a capture point.

Just give us match statistics that we can all see

hackks.3687:

Thinking in terms of “individual rewards” for specific actions is the major flaw. The only reward that matters is the Win. When you start introducing individual rewards you create contradictory objectives for player vs team, which is one of the major problems we see now and why people do stupid things like hunt down both mobs on Forest before even glancing at a capture point.

Just give us match statistics that we can all see

but every game I remember has some sort of individual score. it’s basically an expectation.

i’m saying it needs to be brought more in line by rewarding what is beneficial for the team instead of rewarding selfish actions.

There aren’t that many possibilities I’m afraid. Kills, rezzes, maybe get the points for a rez if your kill rallies an ally, caps, decaps, treb hits, buff claims, monster/lord kills….

besides those the only easily measurable thing is positioning – are you keeping a point, or keeping a point neutral? if so, you should be ticking points for making sure your team keeps ticking points.

I don’t really see what else could be measured – damage done, boons applied, healing done to allies – I don’t imagine things that specific could ever be effectively converted into personal score – however there could be ‘additional stats’ section that does show total damage done by player, total damage taken, HP healed to self, HP healed to allies, boons applied to allies, and so on – not related to actual personal score but just all those extra statistics that people love.

People really do love numbers.

You could also gain points for keeping foes off point which you are engaged in fighting with!

Sometimes it’s critical to divert and distract some of the enemy to allow your team to gain vital caps elsewhere on the map.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Having a personal score system is a good way to indicate whether a player is playing the game mode well. Right now kills give the most points, but arguably that encourages sub-optimal play in conquest.

I really like the idea of having personal score tick when fighting on a capture point. This concept could be extended to behave like the current assaulter, defender, and skirmisher scores where you can still get personal score while fighting close to a capture point.

What other scores could be added, or what existing scores could be rebalanced?

I feel like kills and deaths should be publicly shown aswell.

Damage dealt also!

Evan Lesh.3295:

Having a personal score system is a good way to indicate whether a player is playing the game mode well. Right now kills give the most points, but arguably that encourages sub-optimal play in conquest.

I really like the idea of having personal score tick when fighting on a capture point. This concept could be extended to behave like the current assaulter, defender, and skirmisher scores where you can still get personal score while fighting close to a capture point.

What other scores could be added, or what existing scores could be rebalanced?

For conquest specifically it makes sense to look at the roles played in that game mode and reward points accordingly.

If your role is burst something that could be rewarded might include:

• Bursting into a down – Causing a down within X seconds (3-4 maybe) of you dealing X percent damage (50-66% maybe)

If your role is stomping something that could be rewarded might include:

• Quick stomps – Landing a stomp within 4 seconds of a down.

If your role is support something that could be rewarded might include:

• Lifesaving – Saving an ally below x% of health from dying for 10 seconds or reaching OOC with protection or healing
• CC Lifesaving – Saving an ally below x% of health for 10 seconds or reaching OOC by using hard CC’s or immobilize.

I’ll come up with more later, gotta watch the game tonight.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Having a personal score system is a good way to indicate whether a player is playing the game mode well.

the current scoring system would beg to differ with this statement

and I don’t see how individual scores would be a better proof of success/failure than the statistics pertinent to that player’s role. ask any new player and I bet they couldn’t tell you anything about roles beyond bunker/roamer or list criteria and function for specific builds within specific roles and why they’re valuable to a team.

if you have to have individual rewards why not base them off statistics and award them at the end of the match?

I honestly don’t understand why you guys are so cagey about giving out in-game statistics and information. It just makes the whole system cryptic and difficult to understand. Which I would wager has a lot to do with why new players have a hard time learning your game.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Having a personal score system is a good way to indicate whether a player is playing the game mode well.

I really like the idea of having personal score tick when fighting on a capture point.

What other scores could be added, or what existing scores could be rebalanced?

Off the top of my head.

1: the 25 points for killing a player should be restricted to when you fight people on the nodes, or are contesting a node – for instance, 2players from each team on a node automatically meets a certain condition within the game, making stomps during said encounter, count 25, and then obviously this will continue untill the fight moves too far from the point.

2: Stomping i think shoulden’t reward pts in itself, as it counts as a kill already, However – If you were to gain ticks for hitting a player that is currently being ressed, or hitting a player currently ressing a teammate, that would promote people to cleave – maybe even to be more careful when they res a teammate. rather than – as you often see, run in, hit the res button and then /cross fingers.

3: I see no reason to change the amount of points awarded for a decap – but 15 or 20 if the node is being contested could be an ideal promotion to use those knockbacks, launches and pulls to aid teamplay in general.

4: Fighting on a node should award something like 1personal point p/3s spent fighting on the node (like the op suggested ) – however obviously with a grace period to make sure that you dont start a new cycle of 3, just because someone knocked you 1m out of the circle. #Edit: Personal score ticks for 1 while contesting a point if the point is either neutral or in the enemy hands – however ticks 2 if the node belongs to your team.

I’ve posted this a couple times already, but still haven’t gotten any feed back. Disregarding the title, take it as a system that takes every bit of your actions into account.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Making-A-Better-Ranking-System/first#post4542360

Maybe it’ll offer an idea or two but in short, it’s a tally system based on every aspect of damage, damage negation including healing done and all boon buffs. Including how you effect your team in groups or off a node. Either ways, the more excessive the point system is, the more reliable the in game score is going to be.

Personal score points awarded for:

• Decapping nodes.

• Capturing nodes.

• Standing on white/home colour nodes whilst in combat

• Kills in close proximity to node/map specific buff/creature/object.

• Resurrections while in close proximity to node.

• Capturing/killing/controlling map specific buffs/creatures/objects

• Each multiple of 20k outgoing damage.

• Each multiple of 20k incoming damage.

• Each multiple of 10k outgoing healing.

Personal score points NOT awarded for:

• Kills off point/away from objective.

This way, the vast majority of points are awarded for successfully contesting points.

Additional qualifiers could be placed on kill points to discourage zerging from point to point, such as 30-40% total damage contribution.

Brew Pinch.5731:

Personal score points awarded for:

• Decapping nodes.

• Capturing nodes.

• Standing on white/home colour nodes whilst in combat

• Kills in close proximity to node/map specific buff/creature/object.

• Resurrections while in close proximity to node.

• Capturing/killing/controlling map specific buffs/creatures/objects

• Each multiple of 20k outgoing damage.

• Each multiple of 20k incoming damage.

• Each multiple of 10k outgoing healing.

Personal score points NOT awarded for:

• Kills off point/away from objective.

This way, the vast majority of points are awarded for successfully contesting points.

Additional qualifiers could be placed on kill points to discourage zerging from point to point, such as 30-40% total damage contribution.

this list isn’t bad but its missing outgoing condi removal. you clear the condi from your ally and you get no points vs you let them bleed and then heal the damage you do get points – thats a little funky.

I’m not sure if your current system is set up to be able to handle something like this, but with the updated combat log, associate a counter with outgoing each line item (conditions, damage, healing, etc), and then have that counter either directly add to player score, or add to player score when a certain interval has been hit.

Again, I wouldn’t know if your system can handle it, but it seems to me that all of the tracking metrics are currently in place so that this sort of implementation wouldn’t be unreasonable.

Just gonna leave a post here with everything I’ve read and thought of since i made my first post in this thread.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

the current score board is something like this:

Red Team … [score] | [score] … Blue Team
Player ………. Score | Score ………… Player
[icon] name [score] | [score] name [icon]
[icon] name [score] | [score] name [icon]
[icon] name [score] | [score] name [icon]
[icon] name [score] | [score] name [icon]
[icon] name [score] | [score] name [icon]

only a generic personal score of each player is shown, and the contribution bunkers who are actively contesting own captured points or neutral points are not really registered.

what if we revamped the score board to show certain information?

what if K/B/C/N/R are shown instead?
Kills / Bunkers / Captures / Neutralizes / Revives

Kills
- register enough damage on an opponent that has been stomped or bled out.
- both solo kills and team assisted kills are registered here.

Bunkers
- earn bunkers points for contesting own captured points.
- earn bunker points for contesting neutral points.
- earn 1 bunkers point every 2 seconds for contesting.

Captures
- it takes around 10 seconds to fully capture a neutral point.

Neutralizes
- it takes around 4 seconds to fully neutralize a captured point.

Revives
- stomped or bled out team mates takes 15 seconds before they come back.
- please revive them if possible.

so the new score board may look like this:

Red Team ……… [score] | [score] ……… Blue Team
Player …….. K/B/C/N/R | K/B/C/N/R …….. Player
[icon] name [x/x/x/x/x] | [x/x/x/x/x] name [icon]
[icon] name [x/x/x/x/x] | [x/x/x/x/x] name [icon]
[icon] name [x/x/x/x/x] | [x/x/x/x/x] name [icon]
[icon] name [x/x/x/x/x] | [x/x/x/x/x] name [icon]
[icon] name [x/x/x/x/x] | [x/x/x/x/x] name [icon]

I agree that we need more specific categories showing what is being done, it’ll be easier for people to see when they are contributing – not to mention easier for others to point out that someone might want to look at what they are doing, and improve on it.

I think that:

1: Personal score should Tick for 1point per 2-3 seconds, while contesting an enemy node. 2 points while defending a home node, i don’t think personal score should tick while capping or decapping – unless it turns into a fight and gets contested.

2: Kills/stomps should only reward 1-5 points if done inbetween points. for instance, someone camping the exit to the enemy’s spawn, will not be getting more than 1-5 points for killing someone unless that someone physically reaches a point.

3: Points should be awarded to players for ressing a fellow teammate, aswell as be rewarded for cleaving an enemy player when they are downed – maybe even award points for hitting enemy players who are in the process of ressing a teammate.

4: Points should be awarded for decapping a contested point – aswell as capping a contested point, something like 5-10 pts for decapping a point from an enemy player – same for capping while an enemy player tries to prevent you from doing so.

OP is right on. I’d refine it slightly:

2 pts per tick defending a node while enemy is present.
1 pt per tick fighting for uncapped node
0 pts per tick while assaulting a node.

Defending a point while the enemy is engaged is highly valuable, your team is accumulating points.
Contesting an uncapped points is medium value because you’re keeping the other team stalled.
Attacking a point is worthless unless you actually score the decap. The other team is generating points and you’re not.

Also, I think it’s fair to just be in the general area for these points, not exactly on the node. If you chase someone off of your point without losing it, that’s still valuable.

You need to consider that you can defend or attack a node in many ways, not only fight on node but around the node, switching with team mates etc. , basically it depends on many factors, it’s very important which party compositions fights around the node.

There are several instances as to why you’re not directly on or near an already captured node.
1) A bunker can stand on it.
2) A bunker can stand a couple yards off.
3) You’re bottle necking the enemy team in the middle of the map so they don’t go any further. (high tier does this).

As normal, your team gets a point per second, per captured node.
If Node Defend points were implemented, you’d get a defend point per second, while in that territory.
If it’s contested, neither players in that territory gets a point.

Issues
Dps will still receive more points from stomps, assists, etc, on top of their Defending Point tick if this was ever implemented… Bunkers still arent rewarded by stalling the enemy team; by 1v2ing, etc. This goes back to my previous excessive post about every single action (damage, damage negated, team heals, boons, etc) being a tally point or a type of fraction point that counts towards your player score.

The picture below is an example of territory defender points, but it still wont work.

It would just be a point tick for fighting within X range of a node that does not belong to the enemy.

If it belongs to the enemy of course if you win the fight you will get points for the kills and then the decap and cap, but you would not tick points for simply fighting near an enemy controlled node because unless you win that fight it was a waste of time.

Also, I say that anyone who was on a node for even 1 tick, if that node then flips to full within say.. 30 seconds, you still get credit for the full cap no matter where you are on the map. What I mean is 2 of you kill someone at far. You stand on it for 1 single tick and then leave to rotate while your ally stays there. You will BOTH get credit for the full decap and cap as long as its capped within 30 seconds. This way there is absolutely no benefit to double capping a point.

Solstice.1097:

If it belongs to the enemy of course if you win the fight you will get points for the kills and then the decap and cap, but you would not tick points for simply fighting near an enemy controlled node because unless you win that fight it was a waste of time.

Here’s a scenario that wouldn’t be a waste of time.
1) Home is capped but mid isn’t. You roam to far and 1v2 some one for 10-20s. You die and respawn, suddenly mid becomes capped because of a 4v3 fight you made happen when you went to far.
The system doesn’t work with scenarios like these. The score board will always show you with lesser points and players will QQ about how you’re low on the score board.

Saiyan.1704:

Solstice.1097:

If it belongs to the enemy of course if you win the fight you will get points for the kills and then the decap and cap, but you would not tick points for simply fighting near an enemy controlled node because unless you win that fight it was a waste of time.

Here’s a scenario that wouldn’t be a waste of time.
1) Home is capped but mid isn’t. You roam to far and 1v2 some one for 10-20s. You die and respawn, suddenly mid becomes capped because of a 4v3 fight you made happen when you went to far.
The system doesn’t work with scenarios like these. The score board will always show you with lesser points and players will QQ about how you’re low on the score board.

I don’t see a reasonable way this could be measured into a personal score.

Also, players that are aware/smart enough and willing to cause diversions of this sort are obviously not personal score chasers and really don’t care if they are being rewarded with points, they just want the W.

You should have to be on the node for x consecutive seconds in combat(no clue what just a short time period) and it be neutral or your color to receive any new ticking points type reward for defense or assault if they were to add it. You are doing the heaving lifting when you are on the node taking heavy damage. Most aoe is large enough to just cover the whole node or most of it and this game is nothing if not an aoe fest. Even being off the node a little bit you are not facing the danger of your teammate that is squarely on the node. That needs to be rewarded properly if we keep the scoring system but to be honest I wish they would just scrap it.

Are we really trying to promote piling on a point? I would argue that promotes poor play as well. Worse play, in fact. Most pugs wipe because everyone is on point standing in the aoe storm. I would argue giving points for standing on the point would be worse than the overcompensating for secondary objectives.

Why it’s bad and what you’ll subvert by rewarding standing on a point:
• only one person from your team should be standing on the point at a time
• no one needs to be standing on the point unless an opponent stands on the point
• defending a point isn’t limited to standing in the circle

Half of side point skirmishing revolves around jumping on and off the point to bait positioning out of your opponent. I’m afraid rewarding players for simply standing on point would inhibit them from ever learning this depth of play.

-25 points for rushing beast and 5 minutes dishonor

I get the fewest points right now when I bunker and hold points all game and assist people.

I get the most points when I pew-pew from a distance with a ranged glass cannon.

That’s just not the way it should be.

hackks.3687:

Are we really trying to promote piling on a point? I would argue that promotes poor play as well. Worse play, in fact. Most pugs wipe because everyone is on point standing in the aoe storm. I would argue giving points for standing on the point would be worse than the overcompensating for secondary objectives.

Why it’s bad and what you’ll subvert by rewarding standing on a point:
• only one person from your team should be standing on the point at a time
• no one needs to be standing on the point unless an opponent stands on the point
• defending a point isn’t limited to standing in the circle

Half of side point skirmishing revolves around jumping on and off the point to bait positioning out of your opponent. I’m afraid rewarding players for simply standing on point would inhibit them from ever learning this depth of play.

I would not suggest in any way rewarding points for standing on a point. someone else did but i disagree as well

you should get the points ticking as long as you’re within X range of the point, and the enemy doesn’t control it. if nobody stands on the point, through, the enemy will cap it and nobody will tick points anymore.

also if you contributed at all towards the decap/cap I suggested you should get credit no matter where you are on the map (as long as the full decap/cap happens within about 30 seconds from when you were last within range.

Laserbolt.6731:

I get the fewest points right now when I bunker and hold points all game and assist people.

I get the most points when I pew-pew from a distance with a ranged glass cannon.

That’s just not the way it should be.

right because you aren’t ticking points for being in combat on/near your node (defending) that’s what I’d like to see happen to acknowledge the role bunkers play.