Guild Wars 2

Ok today i have lost 13 arena matches in a row and i call it a day.
I can’t give a reasonable explanation except they broke the matchmaking with their recent “fix”.
Before today i was doing just fine , but today, ooooo today, i just keep loosing hard every game.
Iam not your everyday forum whiner, i don’t whine much either even irl, but today’s record made me furious!
In some games especially, at unranked arena, the guys gave the impression they didn’t even know the basics.

I lately decided to play thief like Anet wanted us to play thieves – avoid fights and cap empty points. So i did few of those matches. Now i made rather interesting observations in those matches (note i wasn’t engaging any fights):
- my team could reaaaalllllyyy rarely win team fights, but usually not, even those that were in their favor
- most scores went around 100-500 in enemy favor
- i had usually (second) highest score on the board (not that it matters, but point is i did contribute to team in thief ways)

I know it would be rather not completely right assumption but by the look of it the game actually expects me to carry the rest of those 400ish points by myself. I am actually expected to win team fights for the team, even those that are favorable for them. Why is this even the case?
I understand that me not joining fights may have negative effect on outcome (althrough during those fights i was capping something anyway) BUT the score shouldn’t be THAT low just because 1 member is rather capping points instead of fighting in big fights.

I have had games in the past when i actually had good team but we had one Dc that never came back. If the team was good we actually would sometimes win or at least score was pretty close. The matches from yesterday were however very lopsided. Which leaves me to think that game gives you very bad odds and expects you to carry like 2-3 people would if you want to win the match. That is really wrong on many levels.

Shadowstep.6049:

I lately decided to play thief like Anet wanted us to play thieves – avoid fights and cap empty points. So i did few of those matches. Now i made rather interesting observations in those matches (note i wasn’t engaging any fights):
- my team could reaaaalllllyyy rarely win team fights, but usually not, even those that were in their favor
- most scores went around 100-500 in enemy favor
- i had usually (second) highest score on the board (not that it matters, but point is i did contribute to team in thief ways)

I know it would be rather not completely right assumption but by the look of it the game actually expects me to carry the rest of those 400ish points by myself. I am actually expected to win team fights for the team, even those that are favorable for them. Why is this even the case?
I understand that me not joining fights may have negative effect on outcome (althrough during those fights i was capping something anyway) BUT the score shouldn’t be THAT low just because 1 member is rather capping points instead of fighting in big fights.

I have had games in the past when i actually had good team but we had one Dc that never came back. If the team was good we actually would sometimes win or at least score was pretty close. The matches from yesterday were however very lopsided. Which leaves me to think that game gives you very bad odds and expects you to carry like 2-3 people would if you want to win the match. That is really wrong on many levels.

I hope you’re not being serious, because I actually had you in my team and you were the sole reason we lost.

chibbi.3706:

Shadowstep.6049:

I lately decided to play thief like Anet wanted us to play thieves – avoid fights and cap empty points. So i did few of those matches. Now i made rather interesting observations in those matches (note i wasn’t engaging any fights):
- my team could reaaaalllllyyy rarely win team fights, but usually not, even those that were in their favor
- most scores went around 100-500 in enemy favor
- i had usually (second) highest score on the board (not that it matters, but point is i did contribute to team in thief ways)

I know it would be rather not completely right assumption but by the look of it the game actually expects me to carry the rest of those 400ish points by myself. I am actually expected to win team fights for the team, even those that are favorable for them. Why is this even the case?
I understand that me not joining fights may have negative effect on outcome (althrough during those fights i was capping something anyway) BUT the score shouldn’t be THAT low just because 1 member is rather capping points instead of fighting in big fights.

I have had games in the past when i actually had good team but we had one Dc that never came back. If the team was good we actually would sometimes win or at least score was pretty close. The matches from yesterday were however very lopsided. Which leaves me to think that game gives you very bad odds and expects you to carry like 2-3 people would if you want to win the match. That is really wrong on many levels.

I hope you’re not being serious, because I actually had you in my team and you were the sole reason we lost.

How was i the reason? I did cap empty points whenever one was available. My point is, the game score shouldn’t have been that drastic just because i was (forced) avoiding fights.

Shadowstep.6049:

chibbi.3706:

Shadowstep.6049:

I lately decided to play thief like Anet wanted us to play thieves – avoid fights and cap empty points. So i did few of those matches. Now i made rather interesting observations in those matches (note i wasn’t engaging any fights):
- my team could reaaaalllllyyy rarely win team fights, but usually not, even those that were in their favor
- most scores went around 100-500 in enemy favor
- i had usually (second) highest score on the board (not that it matters, but point is i did contribute to team in thief ways)

I know it would be rather not completely right assumption but by the look of it the game actually expects me to carry the rest of those 400ish points by myself. I am actually expected to win team fights for the team, even those that are favorable for them. Why is this even the case?
I understand that me not joining fights may have negative effect on outcome (althrough during those fights i was capping something anyway) BUT the score shouldn’t be THAT low just because 1 member is rather capping points instead of fighting in big fights.

I have had games in the past when i actually had good team but we had one Dc that never came back. If the team was good we actually would sometimes win or at least score was pretty close. The matches from yesterday were however very lopsided. Which leaves me to think that game gives you very bad odds and expects you to carry like 2-3 people would if you want to win the match. That is really wrong on many levels.

I hope you’re not being serious, because I actually had you in my team and you were the sole reason we lost.

How was i the reason? I did cap empty points whenever one was available. My point is, the game score shouldn’t have been that drastic just because i was (forced) avoiding fights.

Ok so first, you were not fighting, not helping, just capping empty points. Which is at most 1/3 of a thief’s job.
Second, when I see an allied thief on the minimap close to a point and I go there, I assume he’s gonna +1 and help me. So I’m still gonna engage what would otherwise be an unfavorable 1v1 matchup. But when the thief decides to troll me and stay up on his hill and watch the fight instead of coming and doing his job, I have to disengage if I can and lose time, or worst, die.
3rd, people see you’re trolling so they have instantly less incentive to try and win the game.

Sounds like a typical thief that didnt grasp the idea of playing thief yet. I never played with you OP but let me guess:

1] You go far early no matter what your team comp is. If you team comp lacks sustain and they dont send someone far your team is 3v4 in mid for a good 30+ seconds. More than enough to result in a wipe. You should only push far early in the following situations:

- You know you will win the far point 1v1 in 95% of the cases.
- Your team has enough sustain to stay alive / not lose mid for a while.
- You know the opposing team will send someone to your homepoint early.

2] You push empty points whenever you can. Even if that means you make your teammate go 1v2 on another point or…Even if that means you skip or leave skirmishes that couldve been won with your help.

Dont get me wrong, getting empty points is great. But its all about timing. Doing it at the wrong moment / all game means your team is 4v5 during key skirmishes. Its far more important to tip the scale during important skirmishes than it is to blindly push empty points. Judging by what Chibbi said, this is exactly what you did.

I’ve noticed that as soon as I start approaching or get to 50% wins I lose lots of matches in a row and start getting teamed with non lvl 80s in ranked.

i dont understand how a team can be so bad… conquest is not a hard concept to grasp.. go to point .. stand on point… try kill the enemy on point but it seems some people just cant do it.

i have had games where if i did not go to the team fight they always lost even if it was 4v4 3v3 2v2 so much so we always only had 1 single point because team mates couldnt 1v1 or 2v2 to save their lives even going as far as 4 people to take on 2….

Shadowstep.6049:

I lately decided to play thief like Anet wanted us to play thieves – avoid fights and cap empty points. So i did few of those matches. Now i made rather interesting observations in those matches (note i wasn’t engaging any fights):
- my team could reaaaalllllyyy rarely win team fights, but usually not, even those that were in their favor
- most scores went around 100-500 in enemy favor
- i had usually (second) highest score on the board (not that it matters, but point is i did contribute to team in thief ways)

I know it would be rather not completely right assumption but by the look of it the game actually expects me to carry the rest of those 400ish points by myself. I am actually expected to win team fights for the team, even those that are favorable for them. Why is this even the case?
I understand that me not joining fights may have negative effect on outcome (althrough during those fights i was capping something anyway) BUT the score shouldn’t be THAT low just because 1 member is rather capping points instead of fighting in big fights.

I have had games in the past when i actually had good team but we had one Dc that never came back. If the team was good we actually would sometimes win or at least score was pretty close. The matches from yesterday were however very lopsided. Which leaves me to think that game gives you very bad odds and expects you to carry like 2-3 people would if you want to win the match. That is really wrong on many levels.

You should probably watch real thief players because you are not playing to help win.

Capping empty points is one of the last things you need to worry about.

Thieves don’t actively avoid fights…. you don’t know your role at all, and i’m glad I haven’t seen you on my team.

You are literally saying you actively make it 4v5 since you try to avoid fighting and just run around capping empty points…. news flash, when there is a team fight going on and its 2v3, you need to hop in and help (unless both your mates are downed).
or help +1 at another point. you did a pretty poor job if you did what you descibed…..

Conquest is actually pretty boring once you grasp the concept of holding 2 points longer than your competition and avoid getting wiped.

Instead, people run around going for who knows what even if team capped 2 points and leaving points undefended for an easy decap/cap by enemies

Most of the time, the team that triple caps (not from tranquility) becomes vulnerable to getting wiped. Once wiped, it’s back to square one.

If the team that tribble capped gets whiped its almost every time because there is at least one “dont go far” player in your team. So you end up outnumbered to the respawn. If ppl actually would move to the respawn, there would not be a whipe.
Worst part is the “told you so” by the players who made their team beeing outnumbered and therefore loose. If you rotate correctly a tribblecap is nothing bad.
Waiting for a respawn at close/mid after winning the teamfight is the easiest way to loose momentum and therefore a lot of points. You do need to move on! This is a game with 3 points and not a single good team played 2 points to win.

By the way, I agree on the first point made here, matchmaking still broken. At the end i even went unranked and nothing changed.

cakeonroof.7385:

Conquest is actually pretty boring once you grasp the concept of holding 2 points longer than your competition and avoid getting wiped.

Instead, people run around going for who knows what even if team capped 2 points and leaving points undefended for an easy decap/cap by enemies

Most of the time, the team that triple caps (not from tranquility) becomes vulnerable to getting wiped. Once wiped, it’s back to square one.

The problem is the stupid in game scoreboard that isn’t correlated to actual contribution.

People just want to see their name at the top so they’d rather run around capping points like a chicken with their head cut off while the enemy back caps everything and wins the game. If you take 1 point and hold it the entire game, fight off 2v1’s to give your team an advantage in teamfights at mid, etc…, your score at the end of the match will be like 30 or 40 and it will look like you did nothing to contribute to your team winning.

It’s unbelievable how many teammates I play with who have the mentality of Rambo. Fight to the death and run to cap mid at all costs even if it’s a 1v3. Nobody is willing to run away from a 1v3 to go cap an undefended point. They’d rather die, respawn, and run right into an unwinnable fight.

it’s fun to watch this in action and be ignored when you try change it

Vague Memory.2817:

I’ve noticed that as soon as I start approaching or get to 50% wins I lose lots of matches in a row and start getting teamed with non lvl 80s in ranked.

This ^^^^

You cant entirely avoid fights sa thief there ar eplanty of clases that you can still hamper and turn that team fight by just finishing off player with low healt,res team mates ,or my favorite interupt .

Caping free points is good but only if you c that your team is losing that mid fight so that you devide their team not to overswamp you home ponint(this is also not a rule u must have constant avarnes of mini map and team health and decide wher you need to be and help)
,punish zerg teams by out rotating them.
I had one realy crazy match wher whole team had 4-5 skirmishes for whole match it felt empty all time yet we won with 200 p advantage.

I play thief only if there is no other thief in team ,and we have enogh bunkers in team to hold and keep points ,other vise i swap to somthing more sturdy.

Sb is really good for team fights dont get in melee if you are not confident to down and stomp, poison field hurts and #2 hurts a lot too.
And your number one taskin team fights is to get down that enemy dps ,rangers ,staff ele mesmers taht are standing out side and picking your teammates.

dont just push playing thief watch enmy team and see if you can contribute or not than pick better class for a fight.

Even this doenst help if you have absolute begginers in team:(
1 player doing wrong thing is 80-90% you will lose

.“It’s unbelievable how many teammates I play with who have the mentality of Rambo. Fight to the death and run to cap mid at all costs even if it’s a 1v3. Nobody is willing to run away from a 1v3 to go cap an undefended point. They’d rather die, respawn, and run right into an unwinnable fight.”

I do this on purpose somtime if im confident i can hold 2-3 players alone
for 30sec -1 min i do this,problem is when every one starts feeding it…
So i write my intention and tell team not 2 come ,or number of player on minimap or jsut x signe but most of the time ppl are not heading a warnings and do what ever they want.

deda.8302:

.“It’s unbelievable how many teammates I play with who have the mentality of Rambo. Fight to the death and run to cap mid at all costs even if it’s a 1v3. Nobody is willing to run away from a 1v3 to go cap an undefended point. They’d rather die, respawn, and run right into an unwinnable fight.”

I do this on purpose somtime if im confident i can hold 2-3 players alone
for 30sec -1 min i do this,problem is when every one starts feeding it…
So i write my intention and tell team not 2 come ,or number of player on minimap or jsut x signe but most of the time ppl are not heading a warnings and do what ever they want.

Yes totally valid and if you’re with a good team they will use the diversion to back cap the enemy or do something useful. I’m more talking about players that aren’t as good as you and instead are basically throwing themselves head first into a meat grinder just to run at it again.

Thing is, the MMR isn’t broken, it just sucks, its bad. I’m pretty sure I’m not a bad player, my last game, the enemy started saying to not go to my point (which I was defending) because I was just that good, they couldn’t kill me once (using my own ele build even tho I had some lagging). When I join with my Guildies, we usually win +90% of our games, but after said games and I’m alone again, I start getting these utterly bad players who do not know the basics of PvP nor their roles or classes themselves. Guess this is what I worked more than half the year to achieve (already rank 80 and I’ve 3 lv80 eles, so I kinda do know ma stuff). And the part of how the MMR fails us, like this one match 5 (light + medium classes with dps builds) against the other team that has 2 warriors, a guardian and 2 other dps. Or that match where we had 2 thieves, I asked one to switch and got “thieves were updated, bro”, I told them that 1 must switch or we would horribly fail, then we did then there are premades, you get those Bad premades that you only wish for your enemies, but then you end up with them, why should I suffer these weird-kitten strategies that they come up with? Come on Anet, what game do you want to make here? Is it going to be like WoW? Get players in and then when they play it, it sucks!

I don’t care if you want to balance it
10 7 6 3 2
8 7 5 7 4 6
This is roughlty how the MMR works

I just don’t want to play with people that don’t want or know how to play
How it should be
1 1 1 1 1
1 1 1 1 1
/
2 2 2 2 2
2 2 2 2 2
……
10 10 10 10 10
10 10 10 10 10
This ^ would make PvP, Epic

Not only would there be epic matches but also epic waiting time. If there were enough players for this kind of matchmaking we wouldnt need to discuss about it. Is there any information how the mmr algorithm works atm? Do they even represent the players skill?

Also i won a couple of matches with double thief in my team the last days. Altough it is far from ideal, i agree.

Centurion.7296:

Thing is, the MMR isn’t broken, it just sucks, its bad. I’m pretty sure I’m not a bad player, my last game, the enemy started saying to not go to my point (which I was defending) because I was just that good, they couldn’t kill me once (using my own ele build even tho I had some lagging). When I join with my Guildies, we usually win +90% of our games, but after said games and I’m alone again, I start getting these utterly bad players who do not know the basics of PvP nor their roles or classes themselves. Guess this is what I worked more than half the year to achieve (already rank 80 and I’ve 3 lv80 eles, so I kinda do know ma stuff). And the part of how the MMR fails us, like this one match 5 (light + medium classes with dps builds) against the other team that has 2 warriors, a guardian and 2 other dps. Or that match where we had 2 thieves, I asked one to switch and got “thieves were updated, bro”, I told them that 1 must switch or we would horribly fail, then we did then there are premades, you get those Bad premades that you only wish for your enemies, but then you end up with them, why should I suffer these weird-kitten strategies that they come up with? Come on Anet, what game do you want to make here? Is it going to be like WoW? Get players in and then when they play it, it sucks!

I don’t care if you want to balance it
10 7 6 3 2
8 7 5 7 4 6
This is roughlty how the MMR works

I just don’t want to play with people that don’t want or know how to play
How it should be
1 1 1 1 1
1 1 1 1 1
/
2 2 2 2 2
2 2 2 2 2
……
10 10 10 10 10
10 10 10 10 10
This ^ would make PvP, Epic

I wrote a post about it… not many people seemed to care though: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Suggestion-to-solve-MMR-and-Pug-Premade/