Guild Wars 2

So another problem with recent design changes:
You cannot prevent other ppl from seeing your complete build.

I hope it is quite obvious why ability of others to see your build decisions should be your personal decision and why you should be able to disable them from doing so.
So this shuts off hotjoins for players who do not want others to see their build….cool.

Mufa.1326:

So another problem with recent design changes:
You cannot prevent other ppl from seeing your complete build.

I hope it is quite obvious why ability of others to see your build decisions should be your personal decision and why you should be able to disable them from doing so.
So this shuts off hotjoins for players who do not want others to see their build….cool.

Just join a no-spectator arena. Otherwise stop your whining. You don’t need 3 posts to prove you haven’t played in months and so can’t see how great the changes are.

Oh gosh, are you really going to create multiple posts like this?

Inb4 locked.

This one is just plain ridiculous. PvP is turning into a sport, and by withdrawing vital information to people who watch your playing, you’re taking out a lot of fun from watching matches.

I’d just ignore this thread outright, waste of time posting.

where is the -1 button?

Remember back in the day when television networks attempted to show no limit Texas Hold’em tournaments and cash games without showing the player’s hole cards? The average spectator found it boring and it never took off.

Fast forward a few years later with the introduction of the “hole cam” and people were able to see what each player held and how they played each hand. The poker players at the table initially hated it but when the popularity of the game took off (partly because people were better equipped to understand how the game was played by the pros) and cash prizes for tournaments skyrocketed the complaining mysteriously ended.

TLDR: Allowing a spectator to see your build allows him to see how the build is played and arms him with more information which he can use while watching the match.

I must be a total idiot, and I am a really good player! I have used spectator (its really good, surprisingly I watched about 6 hot join games, just watching how other people approach each class is oddly interesting) and knew you could see builds, but I have never learnt how to do it. I may do that now.

Anyway its a good thing, and I am always happy to share my build or playstyle ideas, its more like we are sharing cool ideas and hopefully we get better players overall because of it. I prefer to lose a good game than win a bad one, every single time. I think a lot of that is their are no rewards other than a good match (skins are nice, but not needed in order to play).

I have been hard on ANet, but they do get some things right. Also, and I know its offtopic, but go make an engi or roll your own, use the flame thrower with your graphics set high. It looks awesome, and fire is VERY hard to make look good in a game, and the engie flamethrower does look VERY good indeed. Whole game looks very pretty.

ur builds do not belong to you. remember that.

I agree with the OP completely. I posted about this maybe a couple days after spectator mode went live. I thought initially it would be up to each individual to show or hide their build, but you really have no choice in the matter. Most people that come to the forums come to talk about builds and share builds, etc. But then there are selfish people like me. I don’t care to share my build with everyone; especially since I spent months working on it to suit my playstyle perfectly.

There’s nothing wrong with anyone wanting to keep their build to themselves. And there’s nothing wrong with wanting to share a build with everyone. It’s just a preference. There should be an option to toggle this on and off to suit everyone.

I’m pretty sure that people would rather use builds that top players run with, rather than some random hotjoin players. I’ve seen some pretty “interesting” builds in hotjoin, but I haven’t took the effort to guide any of those people who have that type of builds. Since I’d probably learn a lot about my sexuality and my mother’s nightly activities if I’d make any comments to those players.

if I look at an engi and see his utilities, cooldowns, health, boons and watch him play for 15 minutes I can give you a build with 95% accuracy.

Spectator mode isn’t going to unveil some super secret uber leet build no one knew about. I hate to say it, but most good players can dissect your build in a single fight against you, let alone actually watching you play. Why not make it easier for nubs? It’s only a game and it helps new players.

Totally agree with oeggs, the transparent builds are a great learning tool for newer players, and don’t show much that a high level player couldn’t figure out from watching you play or by playing against you for about 5 minutes. Lastly, if you think you’re a genius and have figured out a build that nobody else will possibly decipher in a million years, then just play on a no-spectator server — problem solved!

Your build is so secret, it’s so hard to see what weapons you are using and what traits to go with.

No, going with sword and traiting for spoon is not very effective, it doesn’t even need to be hidden since no one will go with it…

You all make valid points. But the issue doesn’t change. It doesn’t matter if someone has an OPed build or a scrub build, if they want to share it, that’s their prerogative. I could be a terribad player and have a build with no synergy whatsoever, but if I want it hidden from spectators, I should be able to. It has nothing to do with being good or bad, or even believe that no one will be able to figure it out if they study me. If someone thinks they have it figured it out, then so be it.

Many may not agree with this, but I don’t think it’s a good idea to copy anyone’s build. If you so happen to come up with the same build as someone then that’s fine. But in pve, there is usually a strict rotation and very obvious traits to use to maximize dps. The route to success in pvp isn’t so simple. Everyone reacts differently in combat because we all process information differently. For instance, someone might want to block an attack that I’d normally think to just dodge, or vice versa. That’s a very simple example. But the point is because everyone plays differently, I think everyone should take time to choose traits that specifically suit their style of playing the game. Read the traits, see what looks interesting and what could be useful, play with it, tweak it, and repeat till you have a build of your own. Like I said before, if you and someone else just happened to come up with the same build, then that’s fine. If you can look at someone’s play and have an idea of what build they’re running, then that’s fine. But not everyone wants to hand their build over on a silver platter to everyone to look at and dissect. And I for one just don’t want to hand my build out to anyone just looking to copy it. That’s just my opinion on the matter. I don’t look down on anyone copies builds, I just don’t do it.

I agree w/ the op. I would like the game to be as diverse as possible, not everyone copying the same build from twitch, and spectator mode. I don’t play this game anymore but diversity, was one of the things that made gw2 good.

I agree with soko. People are using bm rangers and d/p thieves and phantasm mesmers too much now due to this update. Players will soon lose the feeling of uniqueness that gw1 offered.

Ostricheggs.3742:

if I look at an engi and see his utilities, cooldowns, health, boons and watch him play for 15 minutes I can give you a build with 95% accuracy.

Spectator mode isn’t going to unveil some super secret uber leet build no one knew about. I hate to say it, but most good players can dissect your build in a single fight against you, let alone actually watching you play. Why not make it easier for nubs? It’s only a game and it helps new players.

This.

This isn’t corporate espionage people. You’re not some super secret spy, and your spec shouldn’t fall apart if someone else can see exactly what it is. Similarly, you shouldn’t want to keep your spec a secret – everyone has equal footing in GW2 gear wise from the getgo because its supposed to be about skill – go play one of the other dozen MMO’s with gear treadmills if you want a non-skill based advantage over your opponents.

You should be encouraging new players to get into PvP. New players need something to start with – trial and error only goes so far. If you keep demanding the game be so insular and exclusionary, PvP will become even more of a ghost town than it already is.

If none of that sways you, your point is likely moot anyway – I’m willing to bet Anet, like nearly every other MMO in the past 8 years, has a clause in their ToS which states that your character isn’t your possession; you’re in fact probably “leasing” it from ANet, who retains full ownership. Since (its likely) Anet owns your character anyway, they can do whatever the kitten they want with the spec you built on the character you lease from them.

evilapprentice.6379:

Ostricheggs.3742:

if I look at an engi and see his utilities, cooldowns, health, boons and watch him play for 15 minutes I can give you a build with 95% accuracy.

Spectator mode isn’t going to unveil some super secret uber leet build no one knew about. I hate to say it, but most good players can dissect your build in a single fight against you, let alone actually watching you play. Why not make it easier for nubs? It’s only a game and it helps new players.

This.

This isn’t corporate espionage people. You’re not some super secret spy, and your spec shouldn’t fall apart if someone else can see exactly what it is. Similarly, you shouldn’t want to keep your spec a secret – everyone has equal footing in GW2 gear wise from the getgo because its supposed to be about skill – go play one of the other dozen MMO’s with gear treadmills if you want a non-skill based advantage over your opponents.

You should be encouraging new players to get into PvP. New players need something to start with – trial and error only goes so far. If you keep demanding the game be so insular and exclusionary, PvP will become even more of a ghost town than it already is.

If none of that sways you, your point is likely moot anyway – I’m willing to bet Anet, like nearly every other MMO in the past 8 years, has a clause in their ToS which states that your character isn’t your possession; you’re in fact probably “leasing” it from ANet, who retains full ownership. Since (its likely) Anet owns your character anyway, they can do whatever the kitten they want with the spec you built on the character you lease from them.

But what’s the issue with having an option to toggle having your build viewed on or off? Who don’t mind sharing their builds can leave it on. Who do mind can leave it off. Doesn’t matter which side you take, this option works for everyone. Blows my mind when people disagree with an option that works for everyone.

Hot Boy.7138:

evilapprentice.6379:

Ostricheggs.3742:

if I look at an engi and see his utilities, cooldowns, health, boons and watch him play for 15 minutes I can give you a build with 95% accuracy.

Spectator mode isn’t going to unveil some super secret uber leet build no one knew about. I hate to say it, but most good players can dissect your build in a single fight against you, let alone actually watching you play. Why not make it easier for nubs? It’s only a game and it helps new players.

This.

This isn’t corporate espionage people. You’re not some super secret spy, and your spec shouldn’t fall apart if someone else can see exactly what it is. Similarly, you shouldn’t want to keep your spec a secret – everyone has equal footing in GW2 gear wise from the getgo because its supposed to be about skill – go play one of the other dozen MMO’s with gear treadmills if you want a non-skill based advantage over your opponents.

You should be encouraging new players to get into PvP. New players need something to start with – trial and error only goes so far. If you keep demanding the game be so insular and exclusionary, PvP will become even more of a ghost town than it already is.

If none of that sways you, your point is likely moot anyway – I’m willing to bet Anet, like nearly every other MMO in the past 8 years, has a clause in their ToS which states that your character isn’t your possession; you’re in fact probably “leasing” it from ANet, who retains full ownership. Since (its likely) Anet owns your character anyway, they can do whatever the kitten they want with the spec you built on the character you lease from them.

But what’s the issue with having an option to toggle having your build viewed on or off? Who don’t mind sharing their builds can leave it on. Who do mind can leave it off. Doesn’t matter which side you take, this option works for everyone. Blows my mind when people disagree with an option that works for everyone.

You aren’t allowed to mind sharing your build. When you signed up for GW2, you accepted that the Dev’s wanted PvP to be neutral ground – it was designed so that there is no advantage in PvP besides skill alone. Part of that is not being able to make some super secret build and squirrel it away, because it has nothing to do with your skill in playing said build. Like I’ve already said, if you want to play a game where there are differentiators other than skill alone, go play your standard gear treadmill MMO. Then you can feel great in your T8 gear trouncing players in their T1 gear because you put in so much more time than they have.

Furthermore, you’re not doing anything people won’t dissect and copy in a week anyway, especially if your build is any good.

evilapprentice.6379:

Hot Boy.7138:

evilapprentice.6379:

Ostricheggs.3742:

if I look at an engi and see his utilities, cooldowns, health, boons and watch him play for 15 minutes I can give you a build with 95% accuracy.

Spectator mode isn’t going to unveil some super secret uber leet build no one knew about. I hate to say it, but most good players can dissect your build in a single fight against you, let alone actually watching you play. Why not make it easier for nubs? It’s only a game and it helps new players.

This.

This isn’t corporate espionage people. You’re not some super secret spy, and your spec shouldn’t fall apart if someone else can see exactly what it is. Similarly, you shouldn’t want to keep your spec a secret – everyone has equal footing in GW2 gear wise from the getgo because its supposed to be about skill – go play one of the other dozen MMO’s with gear treadmills if you want a non-skill based advantage over your opponents.

You should be encouraging new players to get into PvP. New players need something to start with – trial and error only goes so far. If you keep demanding the game be so insular and exclusionary, PvP will become even more of a ghost town than it already is.

If none of that sways you, your point is likely moot anyway – I’m willing to bet Anet, like nearly every other MMO in the past 8 years, has a clause in their ToS which states that your character isn’t your possession; you’re in fact probably “leasing” it from ANet, who retains full ownership. Since (its likely) Anet owns your character anyway, they can do whatever the kitten they want with the spec you built on the character you lease from them.

But what’s the issue with having an option to toggle having your build viewed on or off? Who don’t mind sharing their builds can leave it on. Who do mind can leave it off. Doesn’t matter which side you take, this option works for everyone. Blows my mind when people disagree with an option that works for everyone.

You aren’t allowed to mind sharing your build. When you signed up for GW2, you accepted that the Dev’s wanted PvP to be neutral ground – it was designed so that there is no advantage in PvP besides skill alone. Part of that is not being able to make some super secret build and squirrel it away, because it has nothing to do with your skill in playing said build. Like I’ve already said, if you want to play a game where there are differentiators other than skill alone, go play your standard gear treadmill MMO. Then you can feel great in your T8 gear trouncing players in their T1 gear because you put in so much more time than they have.

Furthermore, you’re not doing anything people won’t dissect and copy in a week anyway, especially if your build is any good.

How does having a custom build create unbalanced gameplay? Whether someone knows your trait set up or not, everyone has access to the same races, professions, weapons, sigils, runes, traits, etc as everyone else. I don’t understand how you equate wanting to keep my trait build to myself with wanting to play game with a gear treadmill. They’re two totally different things. Having gear that another player doesn’t have access to is a clear imbalance. Having a custom trait build, that everyone has access to is somehow creating a disadvantage? This is part of a fair, competitive environment. Given the same tools, lets see what players do with them. Some players will be very creative and others not so much. An option to toggle it off and on doesn’t give anyone an advantage or put anyone at a disadvantage.

And yes, pvp is a competitive environment.

The simplest way I can explain this is as, imagine a girl getting ready for prom. She goes to a tailor instead of buying her dress in a store and asks for a custom made dress. She gets her dress, goes to the prom to see that everyone is wearing the exact same dress. Sure she looks beautiful still. It doesn’t take anythign away from her, but still, everyone is wearing the exact same dress. That’s the simplest way I can explain it.

Keeping one’s build to oneself creates no disadvantage. We’ve been playing without seeing each other’s builds for the first 8 to 9 months of the game, so what’s the problem with an option to turn it off for those who want it that way? I still don’t see what’s there to disagree about. You’ll still have the option to leave yours on.

Dude, you are playng on hot join – no one cares about it.
Most of the build there are for solo game “max dps” and have nothing to do with “real pvp→tpvp”. So why do you even care if your build is showing or not ?

Can we get an ETA on the option to toggle off other people’s dresses?

I all seriousness though, if everyone shows up in the same dress it’s pretty obvious even if they didn’t spy each others tailor ahead if time.

Now in all seriousness for real, if your build is that good and a custom fit, chances are nobody will be able to play it to the same level of effectiveness as you. They can use it as a base for thier own of course but the difference will still come down to the players behind the builds.

Also, imitation is one of the highest forms of flattery. If someone is copying your build you should take it as a compliment.

I just don’t see the need for hiding builds. Like people have said, your build isn’t secret anyway, all this is really doing is allowing for an even easier entry for new players. You don’t need to get your butt kicked in PvP for hours and hours before you find a workable build (which probably is still far from optimal if you are a new player). Now you can go in and watch how not only how a high level person plays, but what they are playing with.

Can you state any competitive (or trying to be competitive) game in which builds are secret? And even if your build were secret, anyone with a basic knowledge of the class will know what you are playing i a matter of seconds.

how about you troll and have 0/0/0/0/0 traits and no sigils or runes? and if you manage to get top player with that set-up, you’re indeed skilled.

Hot Boy.7138:

evilapprentice.6379:

Hot Boy.7138:

But what’s the issue with having an option to toggle having your build viewed on or off? Who don’t mind sharing their builds can leave it on. Who do mind can leave it off. Doesn’t matter which side you take, this option works for everyone. Blows my mind when people disagree with an option that works for everyone.

You aren’t allowed to mind sharing your build. When you signed up for GW2, you accepted that the Dev’s wanted PvP to be neutral ground – it was designed so that there is no advantage in PvP besides skill alone. Part of that is not being able to make some super secret build and squirrel it away, because it has nothing to do with your skill in playing said build. Like I’ve already said, if you want to play a game where there are differentiators other than skill alone, go play your standard gear treadmill MMO. Then you can feel great in your T8 gear trouncing players in their T1 gear because you put in so much more time than they have.

Furthermore, you’re not doing anything people won’t dissect and copy in a week anyway, especially if your build is any good.

How does having a custom build create unbalanced gameplay? Whether someone knows your trait set up or not, everyone has access to the same races, professions, weapons, sigils, runes, traits, etc as everyone else. I don’t understand how you equate wanting to keep my trait build to myself with wanting to play game with a gear treadmill. They’re two totally different things. Having gear that another player doesn’t have access to is a clear imbalance. Having a custom trait build, that everyone has access to is somehow creating a disadvantage? This is part of a fair, competitive environment. Given the same tools, lets see what players do with them. Some players will be very creative and others not so much. An option to toggle it off and on doesn’t give anyone an advantage or put anyone at a disadvantage.

And yes, pvp is a competitive environment.

The simplest way I can explain this is as, imagine a girl getting ready for prom. She goes to a tailor instead of buying her dress in a store and asks for a custom made dress. She gets her dress, goes to the prom to see that everyone is wearing the exact same dress. Sure she looks beautiful still. It doesn’t take anythign away from her, but still, everyone is wearing the exact same dress. That’s the simplest way I can explain it.

Keeping one’s build to oneself creates no disadvantage. We’ve been playing without seeing each other’s builds for the first 8 to 9 months of the game, so what’s the problem with an option to turn it off for those who want it that way? I still don’t see what’s there to disagree about. You’ll still have the option to leave yours on.

Players better than you (and me, for clarification) will gladly go and post builds equal or (most likely) superior to yours online, and give everyone a detailed description on how they work, what traits they use, and the general playstyle, all in the name of healthy competition. All you’re doing by insisting that you’re build have the option to be kept secret it let everyone know how petty and possessive you can be about a video game.

If you’re cool with that, by all means keep insisting that you keep your virtual baby safe from prying eyes. In the meantime, get used to the current meta and have some fun, if you can through your possessiveness issues.

evilapprentice.6379:

Hot Boy.7138:

evilapprentice.6379:

Hot Boy.7138:

But what’s the issue with having an option to toggle having your build viewed on or off? Who don’t mind sharing their builds can leave it on. Who do mind can leave it off. Doesn’t matter which side you take, this option works for everyone. Blows my mind when people disagree with an option that works for everyone.

You aren’t allowed to mind sharing your build. When you signed up for GW2, you accepted that the Dev’s wanted PvP to be neutral ground – it was designed so that there is no advantage in PvP besides skill alone. Part of that is not being able to make some super secret build and squirrel it away, because it has nothing to do with your skill in playing said build. Like I’ve already said, if you want to play a game where there are differentiators other than skill alone, go play your standard gear treadmill MMO. Then you can feel great in your T8 gear trouncing players in their T1 gear because you put in so much more time than they have.

Furthermore, you’re not doing anything people won’t dissect and copy in a week anyway, especially if your build is any good.

How does having a custom build create unbalanced gameplay? Whether someone knows your trait set up or not, everyone has access to the same races, professions, weapons, sigils, runes, traits, etc as everyone else. I don’t understand how you equate wanting to keep my trait build to myself with wanting to play game with a gear treadmill. They’re two totally different things. Having gear that another player doesn’t have access to is a clear imbalance. Having a custom trait build, that everyone has access to is somehow creating a disadvantage? This is part of a fair, competitive environment. Given the same tools, lets see what players do with them. Some players will be very creative and others not so much. An option to toggle it off and on doesn’t give anyone an advantage or put anyone at a disadvantage.

And yes, pvp is a competitive environment.

The simplest way I can explain this is as, imagine a girl getting ready for prom. She goes to a tailor instead of buying her dress in a store and asks for a custom made dress. She gets her dress, goes to the prom to see that everyone is wearing the exact same dress. Sure she looks beautiful still. It doesn’t take anythign away from her, but still, everyone is wearing the exact same dress. That’s the simplest way I can explain it.

Keeping one’s build to oneself creates no disadvantage. We’ve been playing without seeing each other’s builds for the first 8 to 9 months of the game, so what’s the problem with an option to turn it off for those who want it that way? I still don’t see what’s there to disagree about. You’ll still have the option to leave yours on.

Players better than you (and me, for clarification) will gladly go and post builds equal or (most likely) superior to yours online, and give everyone a detailed description on how they work, what traits they use, and the general playstyle, all in the name of healthy competition. All you’re doing by insisting that you’re build have the option to be kept secret it let everyone know how petty and possessive you can be about a video game.

If you’re cool with that, by all means keep insisting that you keep your virtual baby safe from prying eyes. In the meantime, get used to the current meta and have some fun, if you can through your possessiveness issues.

But you don’t know anything about me, so what are you talking about?