Guild Wars 2

So everyone was complaining about the ranger and necro petting zoo..

I am wondering how these zoo’s are different compared to the petting zoo of the mesmer? considering before the patch it was already easier to target a ranger or necro trough their zoo’s
lets top it off to make sure the zookeeper of the zoo’s can be invisible and keep spamming zoo’s that are almost identical to the zookeeper… (yes, this scentence is almost as impossible as targeting a zookeeper.)

so let me put this in perspective..

What makes a ranger or nerco, who are clearly visible and distinguishable from their AI, worse then a mesmer? reapplying their AI spam more then both other profession combined..?

Or to put it in another way, what makes mesmer less pettingzoo -ish compared to ranger and nerco?

Is it their squish factor?
If this is the answer let me ask how can someone hit something stealthed and spamming zoo’s?

Cheers.

This is a point control game and stealth doesn’t help keep a point or contest it.

In team fights the phantasms/illusions get wiped instantly from the amount of aoe in team fights.

Phantasm mesmers are great dueling classes but lack the DPS in team fights and the point holding/contention solo.

Am I saying they’re bad or not viable? Absolutely not. I just don’t think they’re optimal for this particular game mode. Plus it’s a low-skill class so I hate seeing people run it. If people harp on this then duel my mesmer, I’ve played on her 2-3 hours and will roast you with it.

Lux.7169:

This is a point control game and stealth doesn’t help keep a point or contest it.

In team fights the phantasms/illusions get wiped instantly from the amount of aoe in team fights.

Phantasm mesmers are great dueling classes but lack the DPS in team fights and the point holding/contention solo.

Am I saying they’re bad or not viable? Absolutely not. I just don’t think they’re optimal for this particular game mode. Plus it’s a low-skill class so I hate seeing people run it. If people harp on this then duel my mesmer, I’ve played on her 2-3 hours and will roast you with it.

Pretty much this.

OP question: What makes mesmer less pettingzoo -ish compared to ranger and nerco?

Answer:
Nothing – the concepts are the same. They (ranger and mesmer) are both examples of horrible AI-dependant class mechanics that ought being redesigned bottom-up and changed from a core mechanic to an optional/viable build (at best).

If a necro chooses to run a MM build, the effect is the same, but with illusions vastly outclassing minions in just about everything (also because minions are restricted to utilities, while illusions come from myriads of sources).

Mesmers are the most difficult class for me to beat… I just cant get past all the stealthing, condition spam, teleporting, and clones.

The clone on dodge spam plus staff clones, decoy, sword leap clone, phantasms is just too many for me to keep up with. And you cant constantly kill them because you will be perma crippled and probably rack up stacks of confusion.

Like anything else that gives me trouble, I made a mesmer myself and tried playing it in spvp… and even though I learned a lot about their abilities and what they have in their toolkit… I didnt really get any better at killing them because I still cant find a weakness.

I only spent 5 minutes playing a phantasm/PU mesmer and I thought the class was super easy and overpowered. Clones, phantoms, stealth, shatter, clones, teleport, stealth, teleport, sword #2….

Sorry i got a little off topic but yeah I hate mesmers.

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

So everyone was complaining about the ranger and necro petting zoo..

I am wondering how these zoo’s are different compared to the petting zoo of the mesmer? considering before the patch it was already easier to target a ranger or necro trough their zoo’s
lets top it off to make sure the zookeeper of the zoo’s can be invisible and keep spamming zoo’s that are almost identical to the zookeeper… (yes, this scentence is almost as impossible as targeting a zookeeper.)

so let me put this in perspective..

What makes a ranger or nerco, who are clearly visible and distinguishable from their AI, worse then a mesmer? reapplying their AI spam more then both other profession combined..?

Or to put it in another way, what makes mesmer less pettingzoo -ish compared to ranger and nerco?

Is it their squish factor?
If this is the answer let me ask how can someone hit something stealthed and spamming zoo’s?

Cheers.

I once made a spiritranger, went hot join and pressed all buttons in a random order, as I basicly had no idea how to play Spiritranger.
I actually did quiet well.
Now, try this with a mesmer.

(Disclaimer: I am totally sure, that there the effectiveness of a spiritranger also increses with the skill / experience of the player. However, this build works already fine, when you have no idea what you are doing.)

EverythingEnds.4261:

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

So everyone was complaining about the ranger and necro petting zoo..

I am wondering how these zoo’s are different compared to the petting zoo of the mesmer? considering before the patch it was already easier to target a ranger or necro trough their zoo’s
lets top it off to make sure the zookeeper of the zoo’s can be invisible and keep spamming zoo’s that are almost identical to the zookeeper… (yes, this scentence is almost as impossible as targeting a zookeeper.)

so let me put this in perspective..

What makes a ranger or nerco, who are clearly visible and distinguishable from their AI, worse then a mesmer? reapplying their AI spam more then both other profession combined..?

Or to put it in another way, what makes mesmer less pettingzoo -ish compared to ranger and nerco?

Is it their squish factor?
If this is the answer let me ask how can someone hit something stealthed and spamming zoo’s?

Cheers.

I once made a spiritranger, went hot join and pressed all buttons in a random order, as I basicly had no idea how to play Spiritranger.
I actually did quiet well.
Now, try this with a mesmer.

(Disclaimer: I am totally sure, that there the effectiveness of a spiritranger also increses with the skill / experience of the player. However, this build works already fine, when you have no idea what you are doing.)

As a mesmer 2nd, I enjoy spamming my stuff and then retreat to a nice place to watch ^^.
Also I did the ranger zoo build. I have a clear recollection of me rolling my face over the keyboard midfight to prove a point on TS.

EverythingEnds.4261:

I once made a spiritranger, went hot join and pressed all buttons in a random order, as I basicly had no idea how to play Spiritranger.
I actually did quiet well.
Now, try this with a mesmer.

That’s all you need to do…pressing all buttons on cd in a random order it’s already a skilled way to play spirit ranger…many ppl just spam autoattack…

I think the most peculiar thing is, why people play these boring builds. But I guess, the thirst for winning is greater than they joy of playing.
Personally I have been playing Five Gauge’s gc-engie. There is nothing trivial about it … and it is a lot of fun.

Poxxia.1547:

I think the most peculiar thing is, why people play these boring builds. But I guess, the thirst for winning is greater than they joy of playing.

Not only that…many out here play cheese build because they won’t do kitten with something requiring some sort of skills…why losing because you can’t play if you can win spamming random stuff? And trust me…there are many in so called “top” ladder positions too..

You guys seem to think only the fighting skills you enjoy are worthy of respect and value.

Let people play how they like.

Some people like a class where they have more time to think about larger strategies and less about micro-managing a fight mechanic.

Some people like Street Fighter. Others like chess.

Stx.4857:

Mesmers are the most difficult class for me to beat… I just cant get past all the stealthing, condition spam, teleporting, and clones.

The clone on dodge spam plus staff clones, decoy, sword leap clone, phantasms is just too many for me to keep up with. And you cant constantly kill them because you will be perma crippled and probably rack up stacks of confusion.

Like anything else that gives me trouble, I made a mesmer myself and tried playing it in spvp… and even though I learned a lot about their abilities and what they have in their toolkit… I didnt really get any better at killing them because I still cant find a weakness.

I only spent 5 minutes playing a phantasm/PU mesmer and I thought the class was super easy and overpowered. Clones, phantoms, stealth, shatter, clones, teleport, stealth, teleport, sword #2….

Sorry i got a little off topic but yeah I hate mesmers.

Their weakness is bad luck. If you get lucky Dodge and immo/stun on them you sometimes win. Even totally clueless mesmer might accidentally kill you By good luck. That’s not saying there isn’t some builds and classes with advantages against them. (I really don’t understand this forced autocorrect?)

clones also die fast and are not permanent…
necro and ranger pets on other hand… if i don’t pay attention, ranger pet can solo me easily

It would be really interesting if all AI minions had to be directly controlled by the player. (eg when the minion is alive, replace the summoning skill with a skill to cause the minion to attack or whatever)

Or even, replace the summoning skill with a skill that allows the player to directly control the minion. Give minions long, slow actions so the player can start its action and then return to their character whilst the minion is doing its thing.

I’d love it if minion builds were actually super high skill cap builds that require you to multitask many units, like an RTS.

Laserbolt.6731:

You guys seem to think only the fighting skills you enjoy are worthy of respect and value.

Let people play how they like.

Some people like a class where they have more time to think about larger strategies and less about micro-managing a fight mechanic.

Some people like Street Fighter. Others like chess.

AI acting as meat shields and main damage is not chess. Lets make this clear. Many players run cheese builds feel good about it and when it is pointed out how OP (since everything is OP in someones eyes) it is they defend it.

The thing about AI is that it is truly hard to defend (sort of). Outside stealth it is a mechanic that forces the other player not to just worry about you but another target. It becomes the type of thing where you force your opponent to deal with much more than you are dealing with in most cases.

I do not know if you remember spirit camp ritualist from GW1 hot joins. You drop them and then wait for the other party to come while your spirits burn everything down. We have many builds like that too. They are annoying but their are differences among them.

Spirit ranger is much scarier in a team fight with the group support it dishes out. Overall the spirits likely do a little too much and are up a little to long (I honestly do not see much to be balanced here). It is build that gets much more of a pain in the kitten in a team fight.

MM necro has it counters. Namely AoE (which is a pet peeve as it is). Generally in a 1v1 fight the necro has the upper hand but in bigger team fights you can deal with this build as a group you are golden.

Mesmer right now has PU which is likely to become OP in the next patch but at the same time it uses so much stealth it is hard for it to contest a point. Phantasms takes too long to get going to put out insane DPS outside a duel. Shatter has been somewhat gutted and does not compare to the other 2 specs in terms of sustained DPS.

So what is the real issue here then? The condi spam from each class is on the stupid side and all 3 offenders can be built tanky. Instead of the AI I say look at the underlying issue (condi-bunker meta). At various teams each one of these builds was pure garbage. It really isn’t the AI as much as the crappy meta.

Laserbolt.6731:

You guys seem to think only the fighting skills you enjoy are worthy of respect and value.

Let people play how they like.

Some people like a class where they have more time to think about larger strategies and less about micro-managing a fight mechanic.

Some people like Street Fighter. Others like chess.

Spirit rangers are not street fighter since they hide behind ai and for sure not chess cause…well…chess require brains…so what’s your point? I would say street fighter d/p thief/double arcane ele and chess mesmer (Shatter since is the only decent build for tpvp, don’t care about stupid 1vs1 crap like phantasm and pu)/engi…but for sure ranger (And mm necro) are not included in those examples..

People who say a lot of these AI builds like MM are easy have never played one, especially in high tier. The bad DEFINITELY outweighs the bad, and the idea isn’t a burst build its a control build allowing them to get damage in. It requires a bit of skill to learn to fight them but they’re not easy to play nor OP.

(Spirit rangers are a bit more straight forward/easy to play but they’re not even an AI build. They’re a support build with entities that buff and don’t even attack so that argument is absolutely silly. I know this and I don’t even freaking play Spirit ranger. And you’re not getting a ton of body blocks from spirits, don’t even try to pretend you are. Most weapons cleave, if you’re hitting the pets and not the ranger its because the pet was in the way and you just missed the ranger. If anything, that’s a downside of the ranger’s build, not a bonus…)

Merlin is right, there is not much difference, but people have already got used to mesmers, anyhow flawed mechanics this class has.

Looks like some dummies didn’t get Lasebolt’s point.

expect qq about PU mes next patch