Guild Wars 2

Keep clones as they are.
Remove all damage from phantasms. Keep them as utility.
Phantasms are summoned in order to receive their utility benefits. i.e cripple, bleeds, whatever you wish to think of.

Both are still able to be shattered for current damage.

Buff weapon damage to make up for it.

You’v now still retained the ‘idea’ of a mesmer, being illusive and confusing on the battlefield. However their phantasms are now used as buffs/utility rather than a direct damage source.

Call this a rant if you wish, that’s what it is.

Out of respect for competitive skill based pvp and my participation in it, I can no longer handle things being summoned to do 80% of your damage while your left to play hide and seek with your opponent.

In light of this idea Necro’s, Rangers and any other pets will now no Damage also seems fair right?

The whole aspect of the mesmer is the illusionist role yes the main mesmer’s damage may be a bit much now an will be balanced in the future. ( I play a mesmer by the way) but the Clones/Phantasams are what make them unique and should be a decent source of damage for the mesmer as removing damage from phantasams would not only kitten them in PvP, but pve and WvW also.

Yeah its prety cool the phantasm to do damage , but not 9k + 4,5k in 2 hit each

From what I can see Phantasmal Swordsman can do – 4.5k (crits) and 1-2k normal attack, which are every 5 seconds. Rangers pets do constant damage which is around 1.3k ish per hit. I understand that there are a few things that are out of balance, and i’m not going to straight up defend the mesmer just because i play it. as i know that fixes to all classes will happen soon enough.

Just a question that screenshot was that in Zerg pvp or Tpvp? The reason i ask is if it was Zerg then it’s possible he wasn’t the only memser hitting you

TPvP vs randoms too :P
The phantasm i think have 3 sec attack rate
I have calulated it cause my pistol have 0.5 attack rate and i can hit the phantasm 6 times , before they start again

pSwordsman is 4.7 second recast time. and is unaffected by Phantasmal Haste.

I find it hard to justify a nerf on Phantasmal Swordsman given our lack of personal damage effects.

The underlining argument against Mesmers really is the fact that they essentially have passive damage in the form of Phantasms. However I have to wonder what the essential difference is between Phantasms and Conditions in this regard, both require cooldowns to be rid of, just that Phantasms require offensive cooldowns rather than defensive. And while not touching them does mean their damage is continual until you die, unlike conditions they can be out-ranged as well.

I could understand a damage spike nerf on shatter builds. But an adjustment to phantasms damage would have to come with a two-fold trade off.

First, individual mesmer damage would have to be raised (our personal damage is poor, as well as our long term mobility – these are standard complaints from PvE that flood over into forcing Mesmer into specific PvP builds.) As well as additional utilities from Phantasms to justify the long cooldowns.

As of right now, only Warden and Zerker have any real form of utility attached to them.

Phantasms also GREATLY outdamage any conditions in both absolute damage and DPS.

I dont have any problem with increasing Memser auto attack by 300%
Or replacing all these burst , into conditions

Edit : I hate in a 2v1 scenario to be anxious about facing <<4 high damage enemies>>

The Boz.2038:

Phantasms also GREATLY outdamage any conditions in both absolute damage and DPS.

Incorrect.

My Condition Elementalist alone can stack Bleed/Burning for far more than 1k/second, and that damage is non-critical, AoE, and cannot be dodged once applied (You’re forced to clear it.)

It takes 2 seconds worth of channel on cooldowns to produce 2 Phantasms. It takes a critical hit to deal high damage (Reliant on traits + Mesmer’s stats.) All the while, these damage sources can be Destroyed, dodged, and CCed, and also go idle if target is invisible, and self destruct if they breach max control distance chasing their target.

Should mention, all but berserker and warden are single target attackers as well.

Issue here is viability of survival vs damage performance. My condition damage Elementalist is pure glass cannon, but the clones/phantasms double as distractions. Simply put, better survival tools for other classes are needed.

Infinitus.3712:

However I have to wonder what the essential difference is between Phantasms and Conditions in this regard, both require cooldowns to be rid of, just that

The problem is that you have to dps down the phantasms. That in itself is not the problem but you have to focus the phantasms AND need to keep track of the mesmer with all the visual spam going on. That is a huge problem – especially in group fights. That’s why the survivability is so good.

I played Mesmer for 1 day and oh god, they are three times stronger than my Thief and Warrior combined. I am immortal in 1v1 as a mesmer, pop phantasms, knock back GS spam while Phantasms dish out 5-6K damage and melt face. Don’t even need to use utilities or elite and people whine about Warrior/Thief LOL xD

Kalar Meadia.8439:

The Boz.2038:

Phantasms also GREATLY outdamage any conditions in both absolute damage and DPS.

Incorrect.

My Condition Elementalist alone can stack Bleed/Burning for far more than 1k/second, and that damage is non-critical, AoE, and cannot be dodged once applied (You’re forced to clear it.)

It takes 2 seconds worth of channel on cooldowns to produce 2 Phantasms. It takes a critical hit to deal high damage (Reliant on traits + Mesmer’s stats.) All the while, these damage sources can be Destroyed, dodged, and CCed, and also go idle if target is invisible, and self destruct if they breach max control distance chasing their target.

Should mention, all but berserker and warden are single target attackers as well.

Issue here is viability of survival vs damage performance. My condition damage Elementalist is pure glass cannon, but the clones/phantasms double as distractions. Simply put, better survival tools for other classes are needed.

half those skills you used to stack all those conditions are on a longer CD than the Mesmer Phantasms and don’t carry the kind of utility that goes with the phantasms (which everyone traits for). They also require careful timing, positioning, and in some cases control, where as phantasms are just a fire and forget.

I play both Ele and Mesmer (well mesmer only when I want some easy wins to soothe my ego) and Mesmer outshines Ele in all things except for heals – which they don’t even really need.

Well this is just funny… Phantasm isnt used by any top player at the moment. To be perfectly honest, it is a pretty bad spec:

1. If geared for damage, the mesmer is still glass, just kill him.
2. Phantasms randomly die to aoe and are on a 16sec cooldown.
3. Shatter does so much more damage in a shorter amount of time.
4. Phantasm has a large windup time – you need to summon at least two preferably 3 phantasms. In that time a thief can already have bursted you down.
5. No target switching.

Infinitus.3712:

In light of this idea Necro’s, Rangers and any other pets will now no Damage also seems fair right?

The whole aspect of the mesmer is the illusionist role yes the main mesmer’s damage may be a bit much now an will be balanced in the future. ( I play a mesmer by the way) but the Clones/Phantasams are what make them unique and should be a decent source of damage for the mesmer as removing damage from phantasams would not only kitten them in PvP, but pve and WvW also.

Let’s see:
1. Necro pets need utility slot while providing next to no utility except the golem’s charge (the snare of the other minion seems simply not to work). Mesmer stuff is weapon bound and he can pick up powerful utilities

2. Necro’s elite vanishes in water

3. Necro minions: slow, often do not attack, low damage, low life. Mesmer: like heatseeking missiles. Spawn near the target, even on roofs and through walls

4. Necro minions: long cd once killed (shortest 20 sec). Mesmer…yeah what is it now terrible 15 sec for phantasms oh-my-god!!!! And illusions are easily reproduced

5. Blowing up minion: yeah have you ever seen a necro with bone minions? think about it

6. Moa morph: Poosh ALL minions are killed. What about your stuff?

Point is: Mesmers are so spoilt that they don’t realize how good they have it or have you seen minion necros lately

Another problem is that the damage of the class is simply too high compared with the very good survivability and obscene cc. The whole package is the problem not just dps, cc, etc

ehtom.5047:

Well this is just funny… Phantasm isnt used by any top player at the moment. To be perfectly honest, it is a pretty bad spec:

1. If geared for damage, the mesmer is still glass, just kill him.
2. Phantasms randomly die to aoe and are on a 16sec cooldown.
3. Shatter does so much more damage in a shorter amount of time.
4. Phantasm has a large windup time – you need to summon at least two preferably 3 phantasms. In that time a thief can already have bursted you down.
5. No target switching.

1. Good luck hitting me.
2. Phantasms? nah, illusions? yes.
3. Shatter build is good too, but I prefer Phantasms since I think it is stronger overal, not just damage.
4. So? they are almost always available when I need them. I can summon Phantasms from range before the enemy is anywere near me and summoning them takes less than a second.
5. If my target dies, that is a good outcome. I don’t need to switch targets. Sometimes I just throw 1 or 2 phantasms on an enemy that fights my team mate and I focus on another target, this way I can have high pressure on 2 targets.

Kalar Meadia.8439:

The Boz.2038:

Phantasms also GREATLY outdamage any conditions in both absolute damage and DPS.

Incorrect.

My Condition Elementalist alone can stack Bleed/Burning for far more than 1k/second, and that damage is non-critical, AoE, and cannot be dodged once applied (You’re forced to clear it.)

It takes 2 seconds worth of channel on cooldowns to produce 2 Phantasms. It takes a critical hit to deal high damage (Reliant on traits + Mesmer’s stats.) All the while, these damage sources can be Destroyed, dodged, and CCed, and also go idle if target is invisible, and self destruct if they breach max control distance chasing their target.

Should mention, all but berserker and warden are single target attackers as well.

Issue here is viability of survival vs damage performance. My condition damage Elementalist is pure glass cannon, but the clones/phantasms double as distractions. Simply put, better survival tools for other classes are needed.

Congratulations, you used an entire elementalist skill bar in order to reach the DPS of two or three mesmer phantasms. Give yourself a pat on the back and a virtual cookie.

ehtom.5047:

Well this is just funny… Phantasm isnt used by any top player at the moment. To be perfectly honest, it is a pretty bad spec:

1. If geared for damage, the mesmer is still glass, just kill him.
2. Phantasms randomly die to aoe and are on a 16sec cooldown.
3. Shatter does so much more damage in a shorter amount of time.
4. Phantasm has a large windup time – you need to summon at least two preferably 3 phantasms. In that time a thief can already have bursted you down.
5. No target switching.

well that is very funny because Mesmers seem to occupy at least one spot in every high end team roster I’ve seen.

1. I spec my mesmer for glass and no one “just kills him”. not even 2 someones
2. Phantasms don’t “randomly die” they force people to use up AOE abilities on them because the dmg is too heavy to try to soak up. It chews up your opponents CDs while you sit back and look for an opening.
3. Any discrepancy in dmg between phantasms and shatter are negated by the fact that traiting for phantasms offers far more utility and shattering them negates their use. E.g. it promotes NOT using the shatter mechanic.
4. It’s no slower than an Ele’s, Necros, Engi’s, Warrior’s, etc., it’s just not as fast as a Thief’s. Mesmer’s also enjoy the option of being able to start from stealth with Decoy as well generating one illusion right off the bat.
5. Not sure what you mean by this, but Decoy will clear a Called Target on yourself. Which is uber considering it’s critical to keep them identified within the clusterkitten of AI.

seriously, do you play the class?

What utility do you get by traiting for phantasms exactly? You lose 1 util slot (need signet of illus) and you also lose all your shatter util.

Slow windup on mesmer is deadly. Unlike necro for example, you arent tanky enough to just take it while your damage over time kills them. How can you think mesmer has staying power in a long fight?

By no target switching I mean say you do put your phantasms on someone and start killing them, then another more valuable target (e.g. Thief) pops out from stealth… too bad I guess cuz all your damage is on a 16sec cooldown which you just used, so you have to abandon the whole fight.

Asmodean.5820:

Infinitus.3712:

In light of this idea Necro’s, Rangers and any other pets will now no Damage also seems fair right?

The whole aspect of the mesmer is the illusionist role yes the main mesmer’s damage may be a bit much now an will be balanced in the future. ( I play a mesmer by the way) but the Clones/Phantasams are what make them unique and should be a decent source of damage for the mesmer as removing damage from phantasams would not only kitten them in PvP, but pve and WvW also.

Let’s see:
1. Necro pets need utility slot while providing next to no utility except the golem’s charge (the snare of the other minion seems simply not to work). Mesmer stuff is weapon bound and he can pick up powerful utilities

2. Necro’s elite vanishes in water

3. Necro minions: slow, often do not attack, low damage, low life. Mesmer: like heatseeking missiles. Spawn near the target, even on roofs and through walls

4. Necro minions: long cd once killed (shortest 20 sec). Mesmer…yeah what is it now terrible 15 sec for phantasms oh-my-god!!!! And illusions are easily reproduced

5. Blowing up minion: yeah have you ever seen a necro with bone minions? think about it

6. Moa morph: Poosh ALL minions are killed. What about your stuff?

Point is: Mesmers are so spoilt that they don’t realize how good they have it or have you seen minion necros lately

Another problem is that the damage of the class is simply too high compared with the very good survivability and obscene cc. The whole package is the problem not just dps, cc, etc

this man speaks the truth..

necro minions can in no form or way be compared to mesmer pets..

rustmonster = absolutely useless dies in 3 hits and does like what 400 damage ?
bone minions 200 damage and they blow up if you command them whoohoo 2k damage
shadowfiend 350 damage and a blind on a long cooldown
worm stationary lol ?
flesh golem i give you that flesh golem is actually apretty usefull pet but i never
saw it do 7.2k smokebombs or 5~6k magestrikes and 5~6k swordstrikes or have
5 of em blow up for 12k+ damage.. + its an elite skill … ELITE !
and all the othet pets take up an utility slot..

and they all suffer from some form of dogtrauma and need a cesar milan to guide them because they don’t listen at all to any of your commands they stand there idling doing there own thing drinking a coke anything but listen to your commands or help you attack a person.

i’ve played tons of games(1000).. but i have yet to see the first true impressive playing pet necromancer in game thats because the spec is inherintly weak, pets dont do kitten and your kittened with a crippled toon.

are mesmers overpowered .. na there ways around em but they can be very annoying
to target in a large battle with 5 pets and 4 other people around. when you got 2 or 3 of em in 1 spot with 4 pets each it does get confusing

hackks.3687:

half those skills you used to stack all those conditions are on a longer CD than the Mesmer Phantasms and don’t carry the kind of utility that goes with the phantasms (which everyone traits for). They also require careful timing, positioning, and in some cases control, where as phantasms are just a fire and forget.

A debate of pros and cons, we can have.

But the problem is, even to engage on that conversation conceeds my point: That passive damage is ok in this game. People hate on Phantasms because it has to be directly confronted instead of just blowing one of your condition curing cooldowns.

All of the issues that could be brought up that try to justify condition damage against mesmer phantasems can be regarded with buffs to the classes that need them desprately. Yes, Mesmer has some of the best trait synergy in the game. However, just because it does, does not mean it should be removed. It means the other classes need to have better trait synergy.

Right now the best trait synergy for Elementalists forgoes offense or foregoes defense, where as Mesmer can gear offensively and trait defensively. They’re’s no real middle of the road synergies for Elementalist, and I think that’s really because they have no vitality/toughness/condition damage combinations in pendants and elementalist is really lacking in native HP pool to go sages.

How can mesmer be defensive? To me the class seems entirely to be go glass or go home… Can you post a build?

There are bunker Mesmer builds, which I don’t often use, you’ll have to refer to them for their best.

But the key to the trait synergy is in Phantasmal Healing and Illusionary Membrane

Phantasmal Healing allows Phantasms to grant AoE regeneration to nearby allies at set pulses. It’s considered a bug, but hasn’t been fixed yet, but Phantasmal Duelist provides this ever 3 seconds for a five second buff. All others apply the buff ever 10 seconds.

Illusionary Membrane gives you 2 seconds of Protection whenever you receive regeneration, from any source.

With 2 Duelists, you’re constantly under protection and regeneration. But even without, with more than one Phantasm out you’re getting consitant regeneration and poping in and out of protection frequently.

ehtom.5047:

What utility do you get by traiting for phantasms exactly? You lose 1 util slot (need signet of illus) and you also lose all your shatter util.

Slow windup on mesmer is deadly. Unlike necro for example, you arent tanky enough to just take it while your damage over time kills them. How can you think mesmer has staying power in a long fight?

By no target switching I mean say you do put your phantasms on someone and start killing them, then another more valuable target (e.g. Thief) pops out from stealth… too bad I guess cuz all your damage is on a 16sec cooldown which you just used, so you have to abandon the whole fight.

phantasm traits offer inc dmg reduction, outgoing dmg increase, vigor, regen, speed increase, in addition to all the conditions they apply.

I have had no issue with or even a sense of the wind up being slower than any other class except Theif. If someone gets the jump on you just Decoy or Blink away and start chucking Phantasms at them. Escapability is one of the high points of the class.

They’re Phantasms. Not pets. It’s a small downside to an awesome set of fire-and-forget abilities.

Kalar Meadia.8439:

hackks.3687:

half those skills you used to stack all those conditions are on a longer CD than the Mesmer Phantasms and don’t carry the kind of utility that goes with the phantasms (which everyone traits for). They also require careful timing, positioning, and in some cases control, where as phantasms are just a fire and forget.

A debate of pros and cons, we can have.

But the problem is, even to engage on that conversation conceeds my point: That passive damage is ok in this game. People hate on Phantasms because it has to be directly confronted instead of just blowing one of your condition curing cooldowns.

All of the issues that could be brought up that try to justify condition damage against mesmer phantasems can be regarded with buffs to the classes that need them desprately. Yes, Mesmer has some of the best trait synergy in the game. However, just because it does, does not mean it should be removed. It means the other classes need to have better trait synergy.

Right now the best trait synergy for Elementalists forgoes offense or foregoes defense, where as Mesmer can gear offensively and trait defensively. They’re’s no real middle of the road synergies for Elementalist, and I think that’s really because they have no vitality/toughness/condition damage combinations in pendants and elementalist is really lacking in native HP pool to go sages.

I suppose it would depend on how you describe “passive dmg”. I’d hardly call 4-7k crits every ~7 secs “passive dmg”. And this is in addition to the AAs that hit for no small amount either.

Mesmers do enjoy great trait synergy. They also enjoy a plethora of control and utility skills. They are by far the most well rounded, do-it-all-and-do-ityourself class atm, and I don’t want to see them nerfed into the ground because I love the concept and the play style, but having the game do 80% of the work for you is boring, incredibly easy, and overly effective. There’s no getting around that.

‘overly effective’ is a question of milage.

More and more people in both s and t pvp are getting accustomed to stomping down mesmer clones and phantasms quickly and in PVE you’ll be lucky if your phantasms finish more than one rotation on any content harder than a zergfest event.

‘Easy’ is a matter of just knowing when to summon what, which is harder than facerolling thieves and much easier than a juggling elementalist. The more difficult the situation, the more complicated it becomes than just throwing your pantasms in there and have them do damage for you.

But the adaptability of our class is pretty much rooted in the structure of it. The protect/regen isn’t enough to really justify them on the field, and is very trait dependent, and Mesmers themselves really don’t have much as far as “I’m the one that’s dealing damage now” abilities.

Now, if we did something along the lines that each phantasm did comparitively less damage, but gave the Mesmer a bonus effect, such as Critical chance/damage from Duelist, Movement speed from berserker. Or even just straight damage increases to the mesmer that were independent of the traits. That might make things more interesting.

In the end, Phantasms are supposed to make the Mesmers stronger and more dangerous. Right now they do so by doing damage themselves, but I can see that change into something that makes the mesmer themselves more of a threat while the phantasm is out.

Personally I’d also like see more depth in the shatter mechanic. If we could shatter illusions individually, and that shattering phantasms would grant a special move from the mesmer itself. (Like shattering a berserker would allow the Memser to do it’s own Illusionary Sweep attack, regardless of what weapon they had equipped.)

But these are just design pipedreams.

Absolutely agree. I can’t say as to whether or not those would be the ideal changes but conceptually I’m right there with you.

My OP wasnt about shatter builds. Frankly I can accept high damage from any class if its avoidable.
Shatter builds are strong but I’m at peace with the fact that i can see it coming and avoid it.
Shatters require the mesmer to time it correctly and allows me a chance to position myself to defend against it.

Phantasms damage, whether in a shatter build or phantasms build is just pure random.
Dodging the burst attack from phantasms is almost close to pure luck.

Not every profession can efficiently auto-attack them down.
And having to blow cooldowns to be rid of them is a joke too.

My qualm is that where every profession requires a mixture of offensive and defensive play, the phantasms are just self controlled, honing missiles that can do alot of damage.

Shatter builds are strong as it is, do they really require the extra 2k-3k from an illusionary unload or burden?

Pure phantasm builds should be based on the utility of the phantasm..and then force the mesmer to utilise their weapon for pure damage. (the option to shatter them still remains)

Having to battle with your sword/pistol or GS while your phantasms provide cripple, bleeds, protection, regeneration seems like a legit playstyle to me without the need for them to dish out the extra damage.

Buffing weapon damage in the process doesnt bother me. Once again, its avoidable.
It comes down to skill and positioning. And i can accept that rather than be pummeled with close to unavaoidable damage while the mesmers only goal there-after is to avoid you.

Xynthe.7061:

My OP wasnt about shatter builds. Frankly I can accept high damage from any class if its avoidable.
Shatter builds are strong but I’m at peace with the fact that i can see it coming and avoid it.
Shatters require the mesmer to time it correctly and allows me a chance to position myself to defend against it.

Phantasms damage, whether in a shatter build or phantasms build is just pure random.
Dodging the burst attack from phantasms is almost close to pure luck.

Not every profession can efficiently auto-attack them down.
And having to blow cooldowns to be rid of them is a joke too.

My qualm is that where every profession requires a mixture of offensive and defensive play, the phantasms are just self controlled, honing missiles that can do alot of damage.

Shatter builds are strong as it is, do they really require the extra 2k-3k from an illusionary unload or burden?

Pure phantasm builds should be based on the utility of the phantasm..and then force the mesmer to utilise their weapon for pure damage. (the option to shatter them still remains)

Having to battle with your sword/pistol or GS while your phantasms provide cripple, bleeds, protection, regeneration seems like a legit playstyle to me without the need for them to dish out the extra damage.

Buffing weapon damage in the process doesnt bother me. Once again, its avoidable.
It comes down to skill and positioning. And i can accept that rather than be pummeled with close to unavaoidable damage while the mesmers only goal there-after is to avoid you.

I’m going to put a couple of your statements in question, and please don’t take it as a personal affront, I’m just providing the devil’s advocate prospective for you to consider.

Phantasms damage, whether in a shatter build or phantasms build is just pure random.
Dodging the burst attack from phantasms is almost close to pure luck.

I disagree.

Shatters are something you will have equal difficulty keeping track of if the Mesmer stagger-shatters. For example, I can throw a Mirror blade into an enemy crowd which summons a clone on spot, which I can then immediately shatter for extra damage on top of its effects, and if you’ve not spotted me (I can do it from stealth) you’re hit. The shatter tactic you refer to being able to dodge is the burst shatter with Illusionary Persona, which will usually be precluded by multiple lockdown attempts.

In contrast, the ONLY instant summon Phantasm is Berserker. It is also the only one that can break LoS and appear adjacent to you. Swordsman and Duelist both will appear in relation to the caster and have a very distinct one second summon motion. (Watch the left hand, if it’s glowing purple, dodge immediately after the hand drops, but only if you’re in range of the one summoned. IE, close to the Mesmer.)

Not every profession can efficiently auto-attack them down.
And having to blow cooldowns to be rid of them is a joke too.

On most professions, you have to blow cool downs to remove conditions so I don’t see this as a valid argument. The bigger issue here is the lack of AoE play in common s/tpvp, which will often be a Mesmer’s bane due to the low HP pools on their illusions in general. A staff Elementalist or Necromancer has no problems with Mesmers when they play to their defensive strengths unless the Mesmer plays the harass game, which actually performs weakly against bunkers in practice. By the time it has any impact on its own, reinforcements have arrived.

As the meta shifts to more AoE friendly classes, this concern about ‘I have to blow cool downs to take care of Mesmer illusions’ will settle down. Mesmer itself has already suffered cool down increases on their faster illusions.

A larger issue here is the fact that models just don’t load quickly in the thick of combat, even in tPvP. A mesmer uses a summon and the phantasm model doesn’t load until after the attack is triggered in many cases. If there was a particle effect that announced a phantasm’s arrival on the field at the location they arrive, this would be the tell players would need to attempt an evade, regardless of whether or not the model loaded. I believe this should happen regardless of adjustments, as particle effects load much faster than full models.

Again, these are just disagreements against the reasons, not the proposal.

I still believe steps should be taking to make Mesmer itself more powerful on the field and make Phantasms a more strategic element than a straight damage element, but I feel as if there needs to be a lot of adjustments to Mesmer itself to make it possible without critically harming the class.

Phantasms just need to have their survivability/uptime versus dmg ratio adjusted. The fact that I can grab 20% phant hp trait, on top of 50% phant hp signet, with the bit of vitality on Zerker amulet, my phantasms can take ALOT of dmg, and if someone is stupid enough to waste their time trying to kill it, I can just sit there and dps them, and if they don’t kill em, the phantasms just sit there hitting for 3500-6000 dmg a hit.

And this is on top of the low cooldowns with traits as well. I’ve been doing these cheese mesmer builds since beta. A phantasm build is definately the most broken. A glass cannon phantasm needs to reflect the same survivability if it’s going to reflect the same dmg output.

As for some of the things said above I think what I would do, is make it so the phantasms have a distinct sound and a small beam that ties the phantasm to it’s target and either make it so the phantasm is invisible to anyone else but its target, or make it so it takes 90% less dmg from everyone other than its target and make them alot squishier (assuming they’re glass cannon).

Phantasms have about 3k hp if that with signet of illusions and +20% hp trait. They are mega squishy and will die to random aoe flying around.

Yeah, longevity isn’t a concern here as far as Phantasems are a concern. They already die way too easily in PvE for it to be consitered to make them any weaker than they already are. Part of the reason why they can front crits of 5k and above on squishy targets is the fact that in PvE, they’re pretty much dead immediately afterwards unless the Mesmer makes a concentrated effort to Chain CC long enough for a second cycle.

As far as it’s reaction towards those in sPvP. Again, it’s a Meta concern. The threat of pseudo-passive damage in large staggered quality is what causes panic in Players. And those who are overly focused on single target bursts are at a disadvantage. But being at a disadvantage because of your playstyle isn’t fundamentally broken. It just encourages rounded builds and teamwork.

See, the reason why I’m for a re-imagining shatters along with the Phantasm adjustments is that a major problem with implementing changes to weaken phantasms but have them passively strengthen the Mesmer is the fact that the Phantasm lifespan is so small that passive damage bonuses may not even be utilized.

Having the option to individually shatter them for a unique attacks at least gives phantasms a means of being useful in situations in which they would die too quickly for their new passive effects to be of use. – and it adds an additional layer of deception to their build.

If you leave them alone, they give passive improvements to the Mesmer you’re fighting, if you attempt to kill them, the mesmer can just shatter them for a powerful attack. Either way the Mesmer keeps you guessing, which is the core of the profession.