Guild Wars 2

spectator mode cannot be used to check the rank of players.

please discuss!

i dont really see any use of checking the rank other than guessing which hotjoin team will likely win so only want to join that team and thus resulting in early outmanned fights…

so yeah
id +1 this

might as well remove any reward progression for doing hotjoin.

kirito.4138:

might as well remove any reward progression for doing hotjoin.

rewards are fine but u got a good point there hotjoin rewards should be reduced
20% of a track is max per day
winning reward decreases like 25%
whilst loosing reward decreases by 10% so the gap closes a bit

and famring hotjoi in general isnt that usefull anymore

(i mean doing tournaments is slightly more rewarding because of matches usually take much longer and take a while to start)
while its much harder to win..
(unless u handicap yourself and joun the weak team of hotjoin)

Unfortunately people will simply start using their normal PvP rank finishers again to distinguish themselves.

The side effect of this is that it will also drastically drop sales of ANet’s gem store finishers.

Branden Gee.2150:

Where are you seeing rank as a spectator?

Where the experience bar is.

Branden Gee.2150:

Where are you seeing rank as a spectator?

I do not want to sound irrespectful, but.. isn’t that something that you (especially devs!)should already know? I’m feeling like cpt. obvious now, but you can see the player’s rank when you directly spectate that player on the bottom of the screen, just like when you normally chek your PvP rank but instead you see the spectated player’s one.

Branden Gee.2150:

Where are you seeing rank as a spectator?

:’D Not sure if trolling or …. ah whatever Kappa

Branden Gee.2150:

Xista.7391:

Branden Gee.2150:

Where are you seeing rank as a spectator?

Where the experience bar is.

Thanks for reporting this issue. This is not the intended design!

That’s an honest question. Do the devs even play their own game?

thanks Branden Gee for replying!
it is the small number at the most bottom left corner of the screen, the rank points experience bar.

ah, perhaps we might see this fixed in the future …

Branden Gee.2150:

Xista.7391:

Branden Gee.2150:

Where are you seeing rank as a spectator?

Where the experience bar is.

Thanks for reporting this issue. This is not the intended design!

I am happy that you are being honest but…I’m a little taken aback :| The ability to see ranks as a spectator has been one of the key factors driving huge team imbalances before a match even begins. I am just taken aback that it’s been such a big problem for such a long time but to find out now that not only was it not intended, but that it has only been brought to dev attention now :| I’m not sure whether it’s just me but how many people who have actually spent a reasonable amount of time in spvp hotjoin never noticed the ability to see ranks in spectator mode?? Now I don’t know the answer but I would think quite a lot of people must have… I’m just shocked that devs haven’t until now :|

In any case, as it’s not intended, please fix it soon.

Removing rank from spectator would be a step in the right direction, but in the absence of that people will just put up their rank-earned PvP titles/finishers to achieve pretty much the same effect.

Until stacking and imbalance are addressed, players will either wait in spectate or continue with the “stack on me, not against me” mindset.

It’s a step in the right direction, but I’d say it’s a tiny step and the community deserves much more at this point.

Feels like “please don’t show my armor’s color”… people complaining for nothing

Branden Gee.2150:

Xista.7391:

Branden Gee.2150:

Where are you seeing rank as a spectator?

Where the experience bar is.

Thanks for reporting this issue. This is not the intended design!

Not sure if trolling or…

I am astounded that the Developers didn’t know about this…
It has been here since the first day spectator mode was introduced…
There are also a reasonable amount of threads on similar issues….

Reiven.2543:

I am astounded that the Developers didn’t know about this…

Well I know John knew about it a LONG time ago. He explicitly talked about team scouting once. Though it was very brief and it seemed he had mixed feelings over it.

Wow, doesnt matter if Dev is trolling or not, I did not laugh that hard for a long time. Must be a joke. Srsly..

Awkward…………

You people are vicious! It is a low-impact change in terms of the majority of players, even if it may be a major deal to a small niche of players.

So why does everyone start attacking when a dev. isn’t aware of a small issue? Wouldn’t you rather they ask so that they find out and can address the problem more quickly? Please don’t attack the devs when they DO get a chance to communicate with players, as it only discourages such communication (which you do crave)!

Kudos to Branden for being prompt in addressing the issue. I am sure it will be fixed relatively quickly.

wait a second….to see the rank of the person i watch is a BUG and not a FEATURE ?!!!1

holy kitten why has no one reported that kitten ?! come one guys , if you dont report it to devs they cant know it !!!1

if you never play hotjoin and only tpvp you cant know this !

pls fix bug asap , i dont want ppl to know my rank !(they laugh that i´m so low..)

Branden Gee.2150:

Xista.7391:

Branden Gee.2150:

Where are you seeing rank as a spectator?

Where the experience bar is.

Thanks for reporting this issue. This is not the intended design!

Can you remove ranks now?

There is no point in having them anymore.

Ranks are still good for finishers and titles, those are optional to hide/show.
If you find that ppl dont wanna fight you cuz you’re lvl80, then you can turn off your title.
If you find that ppl dont wanna fight on your side, cuz you’re less than lvl20, then you can’t do anything. Yet.

Genuinely surprised that this wasn’t intended design. :o

Maybe the devs always had some kind of pop up covering that small portion of their screen? I don’t know, I’m just wondering how they hadn’t seen the rank before. I mean I noticed the rank since I was like level 5 in sPvP. lol

Branden Gee.2150:

Xista.7391:

Branden Gee.2150:

Where are you seeing rank as a spectator?

Where the experience bar is.

Thanks for reporting this issue. This is not the intended design!

After the GuildMag interview this reply can be called the “cherry on top”. -)

Patch notes from 28 May 2013:

- Spectators now see their target’s rank on the HUD.

Any more questions?

Loco.5739:

Patch notes from 28 May 2013:

- Spectators now see their target’s rank on the HUD.

Any more questions?

New dev position just opened at Anet

Branden Gee.2150:

Xista.7391:

Branden Gee.2150:

Where are you seeing rank as a spectator?

Where the experience bar is.

Thanks for reporting this issue. This is not the intended design!

Loco.5739:

Patch notes from 28 May 2013:

- Spectators now see their target’s rank on the HUD.

Any more questions?

Ohh, Branden. I guess it’s a Gee-gee. <3

You don’t need to know, you just need to double click on the GW2 icon on your desktop.

Branden Gee.2150:

After thinking about this I feel like many of you think that every dev should have complete understanding of every aspect of this game. And my gut reaction is to say that it is unreasonable to expect that from us, after all Guild Wars 2 is a huge game, and even now I am still discovering new things in it. And whether or not it is reasonable to expect that, it is not that I don’t have complete understanding due to a lack of trying. I mean sure I only spend about 20 hours a week on my own time playing Guild Wars 2, this does not include the time that ArenaNet sets aside for all of their employees to play the game, and sometimes it can be hard to get through jumping puzzles, fractals, WvW, activities, sPvP, dungeons, tPvP, living story, Hot-Joins, crafting, guild missions, ect with only a finite amount of time each week to play. I could probably cut more time out of playing other games, enjoying my hobbies, working to improve my programming ability, trying to maintain friendships and spending time with family to play more Guild Wars, but right now that isn’t something I am willing to do. So instead I’m just going to understand that some players are going to see problems that I don’t. And ask them for as much information I can so that the problem can be identified and fixed. And I appreciate that our players understand this as well and are willing to bring these problems up in a polite and respectful manner.

Sooo, is it working as intended or not?

Loco.5739:

Patch notes from 28 May 2013:

- Spectators now see their target’s rank on the HUD.

Any more questions?

Hum. You are right. It was in the patch notes.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/2013-05-28

I could see the purpose of it at the time. But now that ranks really don’t mean as much it should be removed in my opinion. It is detrimental to hot join. Do you know if any shoutcasters mention ranks?

Branden Gee we appreciate your hard work and dedication to your job. We really enjoy the game. You are right we should not expect you to know every minute detail (as ranks showing in spectator mode really is). The only way you would know this is if you yourself played that part of the content specifically, or was the individual or in the small group of individuals that programmed that specific feature. Even if you were a lot of time has passed. I personally did not even know this in the few times that I watched spectator mode. I would not have known unless it was brought up.

Enjoy your personal life. Don’t work too hard then you will not be able to enjoy the finer things in life.

Branden Gee.2150:

After thinking about this I feel like many of you think that every dev should have complete understanding of every aspect of this game. And my gut reaction is to say that it is unreasonable to expect that from us, after all Guild Wars 2 is a huge game, and even now I am still discovering new things in it. And whether or not it is reasonable to expect that, it is not that I don’t have complete understanding due to a lack of trying. I mean sure I only spend about 20 hours a week on my own time playing Guild Wars 2, this does not include the time that ArenaNet sets aside for all of their employees to play the game, and sometimes it can be hard to get through jumping puzzles, fractals, WvW, activities, sPvP, dungeons, tPvP, living story, Hot-Joins, crafting, guild missions, ect with only a finite amount of time each week to play. I could probably cut more time out of playing other games, enjoying my hobbies, working to improve my programming ability, trying to maintain friendships and spending time with family to play more Guild Wars, but right now that isn’t something I am willing to do. So instead I’m just going to understand that some players are going to see problems that I don’t. And ask them for as much information I can so that the problem can be identified and fixed. And I appreciate that our players understand this as well and are willing to bring these problems up in a polite and respectful manner.

I agree and understand that it is impossible to expect a dev to devote so much time to guild wars 2, but nonetheless spectator mode was introduced almost a year and a half ago. Surely one dev should have noticed ranks being visible during that time even on a 20 hour a week playtime? I myself just play casually and sometimes real life means I don’t even play 20 hours a week and take breaks every now and again. Being so casual means I don’t do arena’s and just often play hotjoin. I can only guess that dev’s at Anet either don’t like or play the spvp part of the game much, or they just play solo or team arena’s when they do. Although casual, I noticed the ability to see ranks very quickly, but like a poster above hinted, I had no reason to believe it was an unintended feature. Regardless, I’ve talked, and have seen others talk about the stacking of high ranks vs low ranks on other threads including on the ‘remove spectator mode’ thread. Surely if it was an unintended feature then a dev who did read the thread should have had alarm bells ringing when they read that. I cannot blame a single dev, but I am just disheartened at this.

@ Branden Gee

Thank you for taking time to respond and look into this. Although this question may be abit off topic., but I am curious. You said that Anet sets aside time for you to play the game. Is this time, say an hour or so, included in your regular work schedule? or on your own time, but compensated by the company? Is it mandatory? or optional?

I’m just interested. Its nice to hear that the devs actually do spend time in game and can understand some of what the players are refering to and experiencing.

Branden Gee.2150:

After thinking about this I feel like many of you think that every dev should have complete understanding of every aspect of this game. And my gut reaction is to say that it is unreasonable to expect that from us, after all Guild Wars 2 is a huge game, and even now I am still discovering new things in it. And whether or not it is reasonable to expect that, it is not that I don’t have complete understanding due to a lack of trying. I mean sure I only spend about 20 hours a week on my own time playing Guild Wars 2, this does not include the time that ArenaNet sets aside for all of their employees to play the game, and sometimes it can be hard to get through jumping puzzles, fractals, WvW, activities, sPvP, dungeons, tPvP, living story, Hot-Joins, crafting, guild missions, ect with only a finite amount of time each week to play. I could probably cut more time out of playing other games, enjoying my hobbies, working to improve my programming ability, trying to maintain friendships and spending time with family to play more Guild Wars, but right now that isn’t something I am willing to do. So instead I’m just going to understand that some players are going to see problems that I don’t. And ask them for as much information I can so that the problem can be identified and fixed. And I appreciate that our players understand this as well and are willing to bring these problems up in a polite and respectful manner.

People don’t expect you to know everything. I guess it’s just that this is the SPvP forum and most of us in SPvP only play that aspect of the game. Seeing others’ rank has become so trivial to us that it just shocks us that you never noticed it. We don’t think you’re stupid or anything. It’s just because this seems to us to be such an obvious thing that we don’t think twice about it.

However, when you put it in perspective with all the other aspects of the game and such, it makes a lot more sense.

Give them a break.

Its a small mistake, that easily goes through. Were all humans. Like they disabled rank in the party window like you saw at end, but it just hapened that nobody thought of of clicking through every single player in your and enemy team to spectate them. whoever does this is a noob anyway.

Like a hotjoin heros are still gonna switch to get their 5silver more, while get way much everytime a hambot stomps me in teamQ.

leman.7682:

Sooo, is it working as intended or not?

Are you daft?

Branden Gee.2150:

Thanks for reporting this issue. This is not the intended design!

And yet, as was pointed out earlier, the ability for spectators to see the rank of their target was intentionally added in a game update and MENTIONED in the patch notes, which makes us wonder if it WAS intended functionality at one point, but they now realised it’s causing more harm than good. (The “Thank you for reporting this, not intended functionality” may simply be a standard PR response.)

The ship is sinking, i won’t comment over .

thanks for have deleted my message….
I repeat, are you kidding us???
since you implemented the spectator mode you can see the rank and now you say it’s a issue? are you serious???
A game programmer doesn’t know that you can see the rank on spectator mode?
aaah so I understand because the PvP is going to die. Nice Job ArenaNet…..

i still don’t see the issue here....

tanztante.6532:

i still don’t see the issue here….

The issue is that people stack at the beginning of matches on the higher ranked team. They do this by going spectator mode and checking player’s ranks so if they see at the start it’s a 1v1 between a r10 v r80 they will clearly be tempted to join the r80 creating a 2v1. What happens can be that people don’t want to join the r10 and would prefer to hope for a space on the other side. This leads to issues such as people just spectating and not joining in and leaving the game at uneven numbers or matches of low ranks vs high ranks. I see this on a daily basis when I play.

Darkk.3018:

tanztante.6532:

i still don’t see the issue here….

The issue is that people stack at the beginning of matches on the higher ranked team. They do this by going spectator mode and checking player’s ranks so if they see at the start it’s a 1v1 between a r10 v r80 they will clearly be tempted to join the r80 creating a 2v1. What happens can be that people don’t want to join the r10 and would prefer to hope for a space on the other side. This leads to issues such as people just spectating and not joining in and leaving the game at uneven numbers or matches of low ranks vs high ranks. I see this on a daily basis when I play.

Before rank were added into spectator mode, I would just wait till I see the prime good players and then autobalance my way to that side.

Darkk.3018:

tanztante.6532:

i still don’t see the issue here….

The issue is that people stack at the beginning of matches on the higher ranked team. They do this by going spectator mode and checking player’s ranks so if they see at the start it’s a 1v1 between a r10 v r80 they will clearly be tempted to join the r80 creating a 2v1. What happens can be that people don’t want to join the r10 and would prefer to hope for a space on the other side. This leads to issues such as people just spectating and not joining in and leaving the game at uneven numbers or matches of low ranks vs high ranks. I see this on a daily basis when I play.

Removing rank will not fix this. The r80 has the Legendary Champion title and a dragon finisher. Should we remove those too?

DaveGan.8065:

Darkk.3018:

tanztante.6532:

i still don’t see the issue here….

The issue is that people stack at the beginning of matches on the higher ranked team. They do this by going spectator mode and checking player’s ranks so if they see at the start it’s a 1v1 between a r10 v r80 they will clearly be tempted to join the r80 creating a 2v1. What happens can be that people don’t want to join the r10 and would prefer to hope for a space on the other side. This leads to issues such as people just spectating and not joining in and leaving the game at uneven numbers or matches of low ranks vs high ranks. I see this on a daily basis when I play.

Removing rank will not fix this. The r80 has the Legendary Champion title and a dragon finisher. Should we remove those too?

That’s a brilliant idea! But I do hope the devs might think otherwise Perhaps to improve on your idea a bit (or just for even better ideas!) you should take a look at this thread? https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Spectate-Mode-should-be-removed-from-Hot-join The issue has been discussed much more over there

Darkk.3018:

That’s a brilliant idea! But I do hope the devs might think otherwise Perhaps to improve on your idea a bit (or just for even better ideas!) you should take a look at this thread? https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Spectate-Mode-should-be-removed-from-Hot-join The issue has been discussed much more over there

You do realize I’ve been one of the main participants of that discussion right? I’ll tell you what I’ve told others in the other thread as well: shallow solutions will have you right back here crying for more change for the sake of change.

The snark you guys give the devs is SO uncalled for. Give it to them when they deserve it (which is a lot), but to be consistently bitter and snarky just because you can is old, tired and trite.

DaveGan.8065:

Removing rank will not fix this. The r80 has the Legendary Champion title and a dragon finisher. Should we remove those too?

That’s a good point. And if they WERE removed, you can bet players would be complaining that they now can’t show off their titles and finishers.

If we want to fix team stacking and Autobalance Wars, we need to address the fundamental reason people are doing so in the first place.