remove healing on bunker specs

remove healing on bunker specs

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Posted by: Takanashi.6548

Takanashi.6548

Most of them can heal like normal or above normal with boons, put diminishing returns on heals on all toughness Runes (-50%) and remove healing on all amulets with toughness for pvp only, problem fixed.

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Posted by: Elpredator.8523

Elpredator.8523

That would be dumb

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Posted by: Cynz.9437

Cynz.9437

Just remove half of the passives and aoe, suddenly game is playable again.

All is Vain~
[Teef] guild :>

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Posted by: Takanashi.6548

Takanashi.6548

That would be dumb

Why because its ok that 1 bunker with healing capabilities can stay alive until 3 or 4 jumps him, lets not forget that if you have 3 bunkers in a team its a never ending story of running around trying to kill even 1. Mind you I got to ruby on my tempest and got so bored I started playing a thief, sitting on a point with a Mesmer bunker while my team dominates the other points is boring as kitten.

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Posted by: Jackalrat.5493

Jackalrat.5493

This is too dramatic and the answer won’t be this simple. I hate this terrible bunker meta as much as the next person, but what you’re proposing would just trash half the builds in the game.

The actual solution is going to be a much more complex fine-tuning, and it will need to be on a class-by-class basis (build-by-build, even).

I could see Diamond Skin becoming something like, “All condition duration is reduced by 75% when above 85% life”, several of the druid heals getting longer cooldowns and less capacity for condi cleanse, mesmers losing a little bit of their evade time on blurred frenzy, etc.

But we can’t just throw a huge blanket nerf on an entire playstyle because 3 or 4 builds are OP, however absurdly OP they might be.

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Posted by: Muchacho.2390

Muchacho.2390

While i find the concept of negtive stats on runes etc. interesting (like in gw1), i dont think this is the way to go…

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Posted by: Takanashi.6548

Takanashi.6548

IMO Tank (bunker) roles should not be healing at all, people want to tank they tank but get no access to any heals.

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Posted by: Pepsi.8907

Pepsi.8907

This is too dramatic and the answer won’t be this simple. I hate this terrible bunker meta as much as the next person, but what you’re proposing would just trash half the builds in the game.

The actual solution is going to be a much more complex fine-tuning, and it will need to be on a class-by-class basis (build-by-build, even).

I could see Diamond Skin becoming something like, “All condition duration is reduced by 75% when above 85% life”, several of the druid heals getting longer cooldowns and less capacity for condi cleanse, mesmers losing a little bit of their evade time on blurred frenzy, etc.

But we can’t just throw a huge blanket nerf on an entire playstyle because 3 or 4 builds are OP, however absurdly OP they might be.

Blurred Frenzy has been fine for the past 3 years or so, don’t you dare touch it!
The problem is the synergy with Durability rune and protection on chaos armor (which we can get as long as we want), making us able to stack perma protection added with an incredible amount of Alacrity that has no counter.
If blurred frenzy was the problem, any other build running Sword/Shield would be too strong.

IMO Tank (bunker) roles should not be healing at all, people want to tank they tank but get no access to any heals.

What a crappy kitten logic…
Bunker and healing goes hand in hand, I’d see the logic if you’d speak of, say, power build having the same healing as bunker, but the game was designed in such a way that any class could have access to self-heal and it’s perfect like that… has been for the past years and I don,t see any changes that made self-healing suddenly the reason why bunker runs around the map…
They should be able to heal, and it’s perfectly normal to not be able to kill them in 1v1, that’s their sole redeeming qualities (that and an added team support), but they are still easily killable against 3-4-5 people who knows their kitten. The other side of the bunker is that they deal an amount of damage that makes them as dangerous as critters in PvE…
Usually easy build, with low skill ceiling and relatively alright reward (not dying and keeping your point) That’s decent and balanced alright.
On another hand, you have glass cannon who dies when you so much sneeze at them, but they deliver damage like hiroshima bomb.
Intensive, difficult playstyle for high reward.

What is not alright is having truck-like classes running around the map with a more than decent survivability for a more than decent amount of DPS, making them either semi-glass cannon (scrapper or revenant) or effective and dangerous bruisers (elementalist) that requires the same amount of gameplay as a bunker but gives the same amount of reward as a glass cannon…
And this has come to life not because of classes’ abilities to heal, but from a combination of passive, traits, runes (durability mainly) and amulets (celestial) that creates a jack-of-all trade master-of-all type of builds who are effective in all area of the game, which creates a boring meta where fights drags on because it’s based on a bruising type where you will slowly erode people’s defenses…

You don’t fix problem, you make a lazy slash in something that has never been a problem…

(edited by Pepsi.8907)

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Posted by: Valkyriez.6578

Valkyriez.6578

IMO Tank (bunker) roles should not be healing at all, people want to tank they tank but get no access to any heals.

“If people want to damage they do damage and get no access to any heals”

My statement sounds just as ridiculous as yours.

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Posted by: Takanashi.6548

Takanashi.6548

IMO Tank (bunker) roles should not be healing at all, people want to tank they tank but get no access to any heals.

“If people want to damage they do damage and get no access to any heals”

My statement sounds just as ridiculous as yours.

Specs that are damage spec and heal dont last as long as a bunker/heals spec like a tempest or mesmer, they cant take 3-4 for over 2-3 minutes of fighting like a bunker/heal spec. You guys just want to proctect the meta’s that are getting you to legendary. I play a tempest bunker/healer I can efficiantly hold off 4 people at a point until my teamates come and help me, especially if there is a mesmer at a point with me you aint getting the it. The problem is not the current meta’s its the way the runes add to the meta’s that are the problem. Once I went Air/Water/Tempest I couldnt last vs 2 people get it?

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Posted by: Takanashi.6548

Takanashi.6548

IMO Tank (bunker) roles should not be healing at all, people want to tank they tank but get no access to any heals.

“If people want to damage they do damage and get no access to any heals”

My statement sounds just as ridiculous as yours.

Specs that are damage spec and heal dont last as long as a bunker/heals spec like a tempest or mesmer, they cant take 3-4 for over 2-3 minutes of fighting like a bunker/heal spec. You guys just want to proctect the meta’s that are getting you to legendary. I play a tempest bunker/healer I can efficiantly hold off 4 people at a point until my teamates come and help me, especially if there is a mesmer at a point with me you aint getting the it. The problem is not the current meta’s its the way the runes add to the meta’s that are the problem. Once I went Air/Water/Tempest I couldnt last vs 2 people get it? A mesmer/tempest bunker heals can hold a point vs 4 people without dying and if 1 dies they both can easily rez each other.

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Posted by: Pepsi.8907

Pepsi.8907

IMO Tank (bunker) roles should not be healing at all, people want to tank they tank but get no access to any heals.

“If people want to damage they do damage and get no access to any heals”

My statement sounds just as ridiculous as yours.

The problem is not the current meta’s its the way the runes add to the meta’s that are the problem.

And by your logic healing is what should be nerfed

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Posted by: Takanashi.6548

Takanashi.6548

IMO Tank (bunker) roles should not be healing at all, people want to tank they tank but get no access to any heals.

“If people want to damage they do damage and get no access to any heals”

My statement sounds just as ridiculous as yours.

The problem is not the current meta’s its the way the runes add to the meta’s that are the problem.

And by your logic healing is what should be nerfed

yup healing when you go bunker spec should be nerfed by my logic, this is what is causing all the issues with teams going 3-4 bunker that is causing all these un-even matches.

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Posted by: SlayerSixx.5763

SlayerSixx.5763

Careful OP, you’re asking for them to start creating more specific roles. They won’t go against their design philosophy, no matter how flawed.

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Posted by: Pepsi.8907

Pepsi.8907

IMO Tank (bunker) roles should not be healing at all, people want to tank they tank but get no access to any heals.

“If people want to damage they do damage and get no access to any heals”

My statement sounds just as ridiculous as yours.

The problem is not the current meta’s its the way the runes add to the meta’s that are the problem.

And by your logic healing is what should be nerfed

yup healing when you go bunker spec should be nerfed by my logic, this is what is causing all the issues with teams going 3-4 bunker that is causing all these un-even matches.

You’re so right, healing so OP with toughness, that’s why everyone is running with Cleric, Settler and Crusader with Monk and Water rune
The effectiveness of current bunker ABSOLUTELY doesn’t come from damage mitigation..
Definitely a healing problem, absolutely. Totally right. Healing is op despite not having received any single change since current meta…

I wrote earlier, to lazy to repeat myself, go read my previous post…
I’ll only add:
Healing stacks horribly
Healing stat is worthless
90% of current “bunker” build run cele and it is not because of healing OPness but rather how effective it is by making an inbetween “bruiser” type that can survive for a long while and still dish out decent amount of damage…

(edited by Pepsi.8907)

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Posted by: Takanashi.6548

Takanashi.6548

IMO Tank (bunker) roles should not be healing at all, people want to tank they tank but get no access to any heals.

“If people want to damage they do damage and get no access to any heals”

My statement sounds just as ridiculous as yours.

The problem is not the current meta’s its the way the runes add to the meta’s that are the problem.

And by your logic healing is what should be nerfed

yup healing when you go bunker spec should be nerfed by my logic, this is what is causing all the issues with teams going 3-4 bunker that is causing all these un-even matches.

You’re so right, healing so OP with toughness, that’s why everyone is running with Cleric, Settler and Crusader with Monk and Water rune
The effectiveness of current bunker ABSOLUTELY doesn’t come from damage mitigation..
Definitely a healing problem, absolutely. Totally right. Healing is op despite not having received any single change since current meta…

I wrote earlier, to lazy to repeat myself, go read my previous post…
I’ll only add:
Healing stacks horribly
Healing stat is worthless
90% of current “bunker” build run cele and it is not because of healing OPness but rather how effective it is by making an inbetween “bruiser” type that can survive for a long while and still dish out decent amount of damage…

Well I find that I was un-kill able with cleric/cell and durability rune or cleric/cell and soldiers rune for condi cleansing when I used my shouts which are on a short cd btw, and also cantrips for further heals and condi cleansing/diamond skin.

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Posted by: SlayerSixx.5763

SlayerSixx.5763

90% of current “bunker” build run cele and it is not because of healing OPness but rather how effective it is by making an inbetween “bruiser” type that can survive for a long while and still dish out decent amount of damage…

Just felt like I’d clarify.

90% of bunker related builds run cele because of the condi stat. Split cele in two and create one with power/prec/fero and the other with just condi and re-adjust the numbers for the amount of stats lost and you might see a quite a number of changes to the elites and core specs.

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Posted by: Nova Stiker.8396

Nova Stiker.8396

90% of current “bunker” build run cele and it is not because of healing OPness but rather how effective it is by making an inbetween “bruiser” type that can survive for a long while and still dish out decent amount of damage…

Just felt like I’d clarify.

90% of bunker related builds run cele because of the condi stat.

Wrong. 90% of the bunker builds run cele because it’s the only amulet with toughness, vitality and healing power.

Also, if you were to remove the ability to bunker from the game we’d all be bowing down to our Necro overlords, for a second time. Don’t recreate the day of Dhuumfire, PvP has suffered enough and doesn’t need a second mass extinction.

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Posted by: SlayerSixx.5763

SlayerSixx.5763

Almost every source of healing has terrible healing power scaling and the amount you gain vs the potential damage you just gave up is a terrible trade off. The condi stat is what made it viable in the previous cele trio meta. The condi stat is so powerful on its own because it doesn’t need incredibly high amounts to produce a good chunk of condi DPS and there is no stat to counter it (well, I suppose vitality would, but that’s more of a soft counter).

Also, I agree that the vitality is also a big part of what made it viable for ele especially, but it isn’t the biggest part of what made it successful (I’ve seen and dueled cleric eles who would literally run in circles loltanking everyone).

Core necro is still pretty meh, especially with some of the current specs running around. Removing bunkers would actually bring back thief, power mes, and to a lesser degree, warriors.

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Posted by: Nihevil.8024

Nihevil.8024

This will definitely fix the terrible balance issues at hand.

Elitism in Guild Wars 2. http://i.imgur.com/ZGnzBCI.gif

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Posted by: Leohart.4610

Leohart.4610

This is a bit extreme, don’t you think? You’re taking a core mechanic out of the game.

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Posted by: Pepsi.8907

Pepsi.8907

Well I find that I was un-kill able with cleric/cell and durability rune or cleric/cell and soldiers rune for condi cleansing when I used my shouts which are on a short cd btw, and also cantrips for further heals and condi cleansing/diamond skin.

Without celestial you hit like a wet noodle which is perfectly fine for a bunker build…
The problem with celestial is that you dish out too much damage for your survivability… the amulet itself is the problem.
Again, I fail to see how nerfing Healing in itself (when it already scale so horribly it feels like a joke) will resolve the current meta bunker without killing other builds that are not as much as a problem as we’re currently faced…

Just felt like I’d clarify.

90% of bunker related builds run cele because of the condi stat. Split cele in two and create one with power/prec/fero and the other with just condi and re-adjust the numbers for the amount of stats lost and you might see a quite a number of changes to the elites and core specs.

Ah you’re right! Still the problem lies with Celestial in itself, not the healing factor… it gives too much at the same time…

Wrong. 90% of the bunker builds run cele because it’s the only amulet with toughness, vitality and healing power.

You may be right, I’m not sure this is the most important case… healing power scales horribly (like it’s not even worth mentioning it) and you can stack toughness and vitality in a much more effective manner with Soldier and Sentinel… I think it’s the balance between very good damage (condi AND power) and survivability… rather than sorely because it’s the only one having healing power/vit/toughness

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Posted by: meow one twenty.4376

meow one twenty.4376

Just remove half of the passives and aoe, suddenly game is playable again.

Remove half the passives, decrease effectiveness of AoE’s, increase cooldown on blocks, give aftercast on skills that grant evades/blur/invuln, decrease Protection time. Man they really did a great job on the powercreep.

Alright meow, where were we?