Guild Wars 2

Lets start a topic saying what generally makes our class OP or such and the reality.
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We have a large hp pool.
-Yes, we also wear cloth, have no real in-fight mobility skills, and our regen isn’t anything to brag about because our hp is large, and we basically have to facetank every hit.
-In other words yes, our hp pool is a couple thousand higher, but doesn’t make up for anything.

Deathshroud gives us up to 40k hp!
-It sure does!(if traited) But it also ticks away hp regardless of actions, has 4 skills,
1. pitiful auto attack that is only good if power/crit.
2. a condition/freeze that pulls you towards the enemy
3. A fear that is single target.
4. An aoe life leech that usually won’t heal you past your life ticking anyway.
-And makes you a sitting duck! What people don’t realize is that 40k hp is only the first second of activation, not 10 seconds down the road. So add that with anyone who wants to start wailing on you, you probably are going to have a lot less hp/regen than you’d think.

We can leech life to keep us alive!
-good luck with that. Many of our traits mean to give us life, don’t really work that well in implimentation. [Deathly Invigoration] one of our traits, heals us for a total of…1k? Per deathshroud disengage. But elementalist get a total 2-3k per dodge if traited. Many of our leeching abilities don’t actually go along with healing power in fold.
-Also, our minions don’t scale with healing, so there is that.
+700 healing(from ammy) on life siphon(dagger) gives me 37 more health per hit. That is pretty sad.

Our conditions are the best.
-No, no they are not. Ranger AND warrior beat us here. Why? Stacking and ease of use. Necro’s use bleeds for damage(because they have no poison/fire with high dmg). This means they need a lot of stacks.
-Do their stacking methods beat warriors? No. You can easily stack 20 bleeds with s/s warrior. Necro you’d be luck to even stack over 12 in spvp.
-Do the overall damage top rangers? No. Rangers have poison(which also blocks heals) and bleeds at the same time. The overall stacking ability is much higher and so is the overall damage especially given their elite skill and pets.

Anything else you’d like to add?
-Minion Skills are spread out to make a player choose between minion damage or player survival.(condition draw or 30% damage)

Necro conditions are not better than warrior conditions.

Ranger conditions are better for one on one, but for a team fight, corrupt boon and epidemic say hi.

Misconceptions about this thread:

The title indicates it will be an unbiased and informative thread about necros.
-It isn’t.

I think this is what people go after when necro’s are complaining they don’t get enough… You roll one and you realize “Where are my conditions? IM SUPPOSED TO HAVE CONDITIONS.” Sadly unless you are fighting a warrior or a mes your conditions from weapons/traits… are just laughable… Now corrupt boon and well of corruption those are pretty baller… But from the necro’s weapons… No just no staff is cool… kinda… Daggers are meh… And I wish dagger 3 scaled with healing power… that would really help evolve the idea of “tank” necros being a class of attrition.

Oareo.1604:

Necro conditions are not better than warrior conditions.

Ranger conditions are better for one on one, but for a team fight, corrupt boon and epidemic say hi.

Corrupt boon? Forgot that.
-First off it can be blocked, dodged, and obstructed quite easily
-Secondly, its not as useful as you think. Its got a high c/d and really only influences boon stackers to be honest.

Epidemic, NICE
-1 second cast time. -interrupt
-Epidemic is a nice skill, but you are missing something: AoE Cleanse takes care of that.
-While it has a nice cooldown, it also doesn’t reset the duration.
MEANING:
Lets say you have 12 stacks of bleed from w/e, you spread that.
-Now with epidemic, you spread that up to 5 other players!
-Still less than aoe and takes longer.
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I’d rather use any number of other profession condition aoe than epidemic. Spreading conditions is nice, but its not like people aren’t going to have a counter to that or that it won’t get blocked somehow.(or interrupted).
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Any more?

Yea I have to say that Necro is bottom of the food chain. But they are a wonderful profession to play, but I gained a newfound respect for them when I rolled one and studied it a lot.

It truly baffled me how underpowered their condition damage were. The thief, ele, ranger, and engi all have more condition damage than the Necro. But it doesn’t end there!

The Necro cannot even make an efficient build centered around crit. Yea they “can” create a build, but to use it in PVP, that’s a different story. If you want to legit make a crit chance/damage build then knock yourself out because the damage from the weapons, sans the dagger, do lack luster damage.

I can completely understand why Necros cry foul and they are justified.

And on another note, one build that seems to be pretty good is the minion build. If you can apply constant vuln and keep interrupting your foe via stun, immobilize, or fear then your minions will eat your opponent for lunch.

I don’t normally do this, but this is honestly a l2 kitten ue. Necro is a very hard class to master, and before you do master it, you will struggle. However I play with and against many amazing necros, so I know what the class is capable of.

Empiren.6401:

Corrupt boon? Forgot that.
-First off it can be blocked, dodged, and obstructed quite easily
-Secondly, its not as useful as you think. Its got a high c/d and really only influences boon stackers to be honest.

If it is dodged or blocked that’s your error. It’s instant cast but you have to face the target for it to land.

It is as useful as I think. Many of the tough classes rely heavily on boons. It will absolutely wreck ele’s and guardians.

Empiren.6401:

Epidemic, NICE
-1 second cast time. -interrupt
-Epidemic is a nice skill, but you are missing something: AoE Cleanse takes care of that.
-While it has a nice cooldown, it also doesn’t reset the duration.
MEANING:
Lets say you have 12 stacks of bleed from w/e, you spread that.
-Now with epidemic, you spread that up to 5 other players!
-Still less than aoe and takes longer.
--——————
I’d rather use any number of other profession condition aoe than epidemic. Spreading conditions is nice, but its not like people aren’t going to have a counter to that or that it won’t get blocked somehow.(or interrupted).
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Tell me what AoE cleanse clears all conditions? Most AoE is 1 per pulse (if you are epidemic’ing 1 condition that’s bad), and most all cleanse is single target. Healing rain on staff ele is OK, but it’s on a longish cooldown and still doesn’t clear ALL. Run with a ranger or engi and you’ll having conditions everywhere.

I’m going to go out on a limb and say you’ve never given these skills a proper test. I don’t mean jumping into hot join and seeing what happens. I’m talking about a organized team that supports your build.

Oareo.1604:

Tell me what AoE cleanse clears all conditions? Most AoE is 1 per pulse (if you are epidemic’ing 1 condition that’s bad), and most all cleanse is single target. Healing rain on staff ele is OK, but it’s on a longish cooldown and still doesn’t clear ALL. Run with a ranger or engi and you’ll having conditions everywhere.

I’m going to go out on a limb and say you’ve never given these skills a proper test. I don’t mean jumping into hot join and seeing what happens. I’m talking about a organized team that supports your build.

I can say that the Necro can still hold their own 1v1. I’ve done a pretty decent job, and with the axe of all weapons.

But I feel that in a team situation, the necro is very strong. But when looking at the whole picture, the Necro still needs some attention and I know you would admit that much as well. But nice post

Expansive.3716:

But I feel that in a team situation, the necro is very strong. But when looking at the whole picture, the Necro still needs some attention and I know you would admit that much as well. But nice post

This is accurate. 1v1 epidemic is weak.

However, play to your strengths! Team fight if that’s what you are good at.

I had this EXACT situation last night. A very talented necro crushing us in team fights. Played them twice in a row. The second time we built around heavy conditions, expecting it. We did better, but still lost. However, I was able to 1v1 the necro the second time. Admitedly, they were better (and higher ranked) than us. But the point is, they used necro as a key part of that betterness.

Oareo.1604:

Expansive.3716:

But I feel that in a team situation, the necro is very strong. But when looking at the whole picture, the Necro still needs some attention and I know you would admit that much as well. But nice post

This is accurate. 1v1 epidemic is weak.

However, play to your strengths! Team fight if that’s what you are good at.

I had this EXACT situation last night. A very talented necro crushing us in team fights. Played them twice in a row. The second time we built around heavy conditions, expecting it. We did better, but still lost. However, I was able to 1v1 the necro the second time. Admitedly, they were better (and higher ranked) than us. But the point is, they used necro as a key part of that betterness.

Here is the another misconception.
“team fights” or having a team build around you.

Team fights.
- First off team fighting for most other professions is done better. Its better to buff your team and help them than to spread a generally weak condition to the enemy team. Why? because boons can be spread so much easier and more rapidly than your short epidemic, they don’t have to be maintained, and they can’t removed as easily. —-—Secondly AoE from other classes does better damage to begin with and takes less time for it to come to fruition(even in conditions). Why bring the necro? to apply bleeds? Why not just bring a staff ele or a ranger, or a warrior if your feeling that good about protecting a target for offense.
-Third, what about boons? We give NONE, so why keep on commenting that we should be in a team fight?
————-Basically this is saying “they are good if you are carried by your team”.——————-

Building around the necro.
-No reason to. Why not build around any other class instead/? The reliability is a lot higher and the general boons/conditions they can throw out are a lot more consistent. And I’d take poison over bleeding ANY day.
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Last but not least, for you condition necro’s saying “oh just teamfight”
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Null_Field
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Condition#Skills_that_remove_conditions

Yup. The enemy can “team fight” too.(as well as just generally remove your conditions). Necro’s aren’t consistent with bleeds and this makes them less viable than every other class.

Gotta think about these things.

Null field is a good spell. It’s one of the few ways a mesmer can deal with conditions.

But do you think Null Field removes all conditions every pulse? Because it doesn’t.

Tell me more about these AoE all cleanses on short cooldown.

Oareo.1604:

Null field is a good spell. It’s one of the few ways a mesmer can deal with conditions.

But do you think Null Field removes all conditions every pulse? Because it doesn’t.

Tell me more about these AoE all cleanses on short cooldown.

No, I don’t. It usually does every tick/sec.
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Well you see AoE cleanse is a very nice thing, its pretty handy when that one stupid necro uses epidemic, because that is all you need. One cleanse. Focus down(2v1 is all you’ll need) the necro and wala, done. But what if the necro escape and pulls another epidemic?

Not this this isn’t already apperant. Necro’s can’t build the stacks up for every epidemic cast. The cooldowns aren’t in sync. 25-30 for every major bleed(enfeebling, blood is power).
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But what about poison? Nope, necro has horrible poison damage. See ranger instead.
Burning? None.
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So your option is to epidemic conditions from someone else! But…….that doesn’t make up for the minor amount of damage you’ll be pulling in that gap.

And lets be honest, its a rare sight for a fight to last long enough for two epidemics to be useful.

Empiren.6401:

Oareo.1604:

Expansive.3716:

But I feel that in a team situation, the necro is very strong. But when looking at the whole picture, the Necro still needs some attention and I know you would admit that much as well. But nice post

This is accurate. 1v1 epidemic is weak.

However, play to your strengths! Team fight if that’s what you are good at.

I had this EXACT situation last night. A very talented necro crushing us in team fights. Played them twice in a row. The second time we built around heavy conditions, expecting it. We did better, but still lost. However, I was able to 1v1 the necro the second time. Admitedly, they were better (and higher ranked) than us. But the point is, they used necro as a key part of that betterness.

Here is the another misconception.
“team fights” or having a team build around you.

Team fights.
- First off team fighting for most other professions is done better. Its better to buff your team and help them than to spread a generally weak condition to the enemy team. Why? because boons can be spread so much easier and more rapidly than your short epidemic, they don’t have to be maintained, and they can’t removed as easily. —-—Secondly AoE from other classes does better damage to begin with and takes less time for it to come to fruition(even in conditions). Why bring the necro? to apply bleeds? Why not just bring a staff ele or a ranger, or a warrior if your feeling that good about protecting a target for offense.
-Third, what about boons? We give NONE, so why keep on commenting that we should be in a team fight?
————-Basically this is saying “they are good if you are carried by your team”.——————-

Building around the necro.
-No reason to. Why not build around any other class instead/? The reliability is a lot higher and the general boons/conditions they can throw out are a lot more consistent. And I’d take poison over bleeding ANY day.
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Last but not least, for you condition necro’s saying “oh just teamfight”
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Null_Field
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Condition#Skills_that_remove_conditions

Yup. The enemy can “team fight” too.(as well as just generally remove your conditions). Necro’s aren’t consistent with bleeds and this makes them less viable than every other class.

Gotta think about these things.

You can’t compare a staff necro with a staff ele, I can dodge 90% of staff ele attacks..but you can’t do the same with a well spamming necro, you simply can’t.

Thx to well mechanic, a necro can create an immediate control area where the enemy team can be torn to shreads in secs, the fear mechanic is superb, at the right time a fear chain is devastating

A well played necro in a team fight is amazing…absolutely amazing, a profession must not be all about damage, the control offered by a necro is phenomenal and the conditions transfer can decide the outcome of a team fight easily

A timed corrupt boons is game over against all the professions that heavily depend on boons ( ele-guardian-ranger), seriously..the necro is kittening hard to use, but if you master it , you will virtually beat anybody, condition damage + control ..you can bring all the burst you want..if I negate it..you’re dead

Now, good necros are rare, but when you meet one…you cry…hard!

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bleed
Notes:
Ranger:
weapons with bleed on specific attacks is 3 all of which are not the weapons commonly used for condition builds, the axe being the most used which inflicts 5 stacks with a 6 second duration.
Shortbow flanking gives a single bleed for 3 seconds
Critical hits can be traited to give a 1 second bleed
Utility sharpening stone grants the next 5 attacks the possibility of a single bleed stack for 8 seconds (not usually taken, can also be traited which is not normally taken as it is in a power tree)
Utility Spike trap gives 3 stacks for 5 seconds traitable to 10 seconds with a 30 pt talent.
Elite Entangle gives a single 8 second bleed every 1.5 seconds trapped by roots up to 14 times (20 seconds)
Sidenote: Ranger has good access to almost all conditions except for confusion. The Ranger has no bleed duration trait and also has really low access to bleeds on weapon the most common being stacking bleeds by flanking with the shortbow. The access to most bleeds comes from its spike trap and shortbow flanking which draws a ranger into closer combat for 600m throws and for closer movement to enemy to gain a bleed from flanking. Its lackluster bleeds are made up for by the bonus of burning (equals 6 bleeds per second approx). The ranger only has access to fear through pets, as well as increase in bleeds if they choose certain cat type pets however these bleeds do base condi dmg unless traited, and when traited still do low numbers.

Warrior
Sword autoattack combo will apply 2 stacks of an 8 second bleed and a third hit that is straight damage.
F1 Ability Flurry will give 8-12 stacks of a 2 second bleed
Riposte will give a 4 stack of bleed for 12 seconds if it blocks a melee attack
Warrior has no utility skills that apply bleeding
Warrior has no elites that can apply bleeding
Trait for 33% chance on a crit to apply a 3 second bleed
Trait that increases bleed duration by 50%
Sidenote: Warrior has poor access to all conditions except for Bleed and Burning(longbow). The warrior also has to apply its bleed conditions in melee range putting it at much greater risk than ranger or necro. It is also punished due to poor condition spread so harmful conditions can be purged easily since it does not cover anything, and once it switches to do its burning condition it has to wait after weapon swapping again to put up more bleeds.

Necro:
Scepter Autoattack chain gives 2 stacks of a 4 second bleed and an additional 2 seconds of poison
Enfeebling blood 2 stacks of a10 second bleed (and weakness)
Grasping Dead 1 stack of a 7 second bleed (and cripple)
Mark of Blood 3 stacks of an 8 second bleed (and regen to allies)
Mark of Power 2 stacks of a 30 second bleed (self bleed for 10s and 10 might stacks)
Signet of Spite 1 stack of a 5 second bleed (also inflicts blind, cripple, poison, weakness, vulnerability)
Plague Form has access to an ability 2 stacks of bleeds for 2 seconds (also inflicts poison)
Trait Critical hits have a 66% chance to apply a 1 second bleed
Trait increases all bleed durations by 20%
Sidenote: Also has epidemic and corrupt boon to increase the amount conditions and bleeds available. Most condition abilities are also backup up by another condition and although the initial numbers are low for speed of condition stacking it has long condition duration on its bleeds, The trait that increases bleed duration is also very nice. The necro has good access to most condi’s other than confusion and burning.

Summary: Warrior is close range with no good access to other conditions other than burning. Ranger is mid ranged 600m or less to be able to hit with traps and has decent access to all conditions minus confusion but short duration conditions other than utilities. Necro is mid (900m) to long range (1200) has decent duration conditions on weapon attacks and is the only one of the three to corrupt boons its utility skill epidemic also makes it synergize well with added condition sources on the team.

Taym, you are making a very common mistake, paper vs implementation.
-You are forgetting equips, runes, and gear.
-You are forgetting cooldowns.
-You are forgetting trade-offs.

Ranger blends both poison and bleeds together for a much more reliable condition build. That being said, ranger has a faster auto attack and at a better range. AND it pierces. 60% chance to crit means faster attacks faster bleeds.
-Also pets do over 5k on their own, thats is a lot. Combined with your pet skill thats a total of 10k in bleeds per pet.
-Also, you don’t need “bleed duration +” because poison works just as well and prevents healing by a nice amount.
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Warrior bleeds last longer, and go for more total per hit. Also, they have sword 4 which throws a sword and continually applies bleeds. Warrior can maintain a good amount of stacks and sword 2 is a nice gap closer to stay in melee range. Necro can nuke better supposedly(idk against LB though), but in a competitive surrounding you aren’t going to sit on a ledge and just nuke, someone is going to stop you.
-again, can’t stress this enough, earth runes + crit chance far outways necro. Especially with LB fire aoe.
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Anyway point still stands that necro has subpar conditions in exchange for being the easiest to hit class in the game.

Empiren.6401:

Taym, you are making a very common mistake, paper vs implementation.
-You are forgetting equips, runes, and gear.
-You are forgetting cooldowns.
-You are forgetting trade-offs.

Ranger blends both poison and bleeds together for a much more reliable condition build. That being said, ranger has a faster auto attack and at a better range. AND it pierces. 60% chance to crit means faster attacks faster bleeds.
-Also pets do over 5k on their own, thats is a lot. Combined with your pet skill thats a total of 10k in bleeds per pet.
-Also, you don’t need “bleed duration +” because poison works just as well and prevents healing by a nice amount.
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Warrior bleeds last longer, and go for more total per hit. Also, they have sword 4 which throws a sword and continually applies bleeds. Warrior can maintain a good amount of stacks and sword 2 is a nice gap closer to stay in melee range. Necro can nuke better supposedly(idk against LB though), but in a competitive surrounding you aren’t going to sit on a ledge and just nuke, someone is going to stop you.
-again, can’t stress this enough, earth runes + crit chance far outways necro. Especially with LB fire aoe.
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Anyway point still stands that necro has subpar conditions in exchange for being the easiest to hit class in the game.

Ranger
Ranger piercing on bow attacks is not taken by trap rangers, the only bow attack that pierces automatically is poison which needs to be in melee ranger to get more than a 4 second poison. Rangers bow bleeds are unreliable at long range as they do not get flanking bonus unless the opponent decides to show their back/side.
The pet argument is valid however in the trap condition spec there is a max of 5 pts in beastmastery, meaning pets will have lower crit and hit for 700~ normal or 1.3k crit, and abilities hit for 1.4k which if crit is approx 2.6k crit. (using canines which is most common, jaguar is 600 normal crit 900, or w/ stealth 1k on auto attacks and 2k on abilities. This is also not taking into account pet hit reliability which is still poor.
-poison damage is equal to 2 stacks of bleeds, to which necro has an ample amount of sources of it as well.
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Warrior:
You are not understanding the argument against condi warrior at all. They apply 2 conditions damage conditions and only ever one at a time. Condition removal literally destroys them as they can’t space 5+ condis like both ranger and necro can, they have 3, burn immo and bleed. They also do all this at point blank for bleeds and a good range for burning. I do agree that the burn f1 ability is impressive, however its too limited on condis so the warrior can never be a stand alone condition sources.
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I don’t know how you judge easy to hit as the obviously easiest to hit in this case will be the warrior since it has to melee to achieve bleeding. Ranger will also be in close to do actual damage with its traps. The only class that does not need to be in there is the necro as most of its abilities have the same travel time close as they do far behind. If you are talking about survivability as “easiest to hit” the necro starts at the highest tier of HP, has the deathshroud mechanic and also plague form to extend its life. The warrior could bring endure pain but that is the end of his CD’s, the ranger will have nothing beyond a 1/2 second dodge on an 8 second cooldown and a 3/4 second dodge on a 15 second cooldown on the sword (which shuts down all bow condi and they are pretty much forced to leave a team fight), and a 1/4 second dodge on the shortbow. A well played necro supported by a condi engie or ranger is a deadly weapon whose role cannot be filled by another condition class. What I was trying to say there is that the more conditions that team-mates apply the stronger the necro becomes.

I also am a bit confused why you chose warrior instead of condi-engie as the condition warrior never sees much use because of its condition coverage (it can never be alone). There are other classes that can be taken to do the same job better, but adding in poison/chill/confusion/cripple…

Obviously you have no idea how to play this class or you play hotjoin.

It might just be me, but I absolutely love having that “UP” and “bad condition class” at midfights. You can keep your conditionwarriors, I’ll better roll with my necrobuddy kthx.
OP obviously has no idea of the effect that rez signet/corrupt/epidemic has in midfights.

IMO, necro is a well balanced class. All of our builds have strengths and glaring weaknesses. Corrupt boon is powerful but takes alot of skill to land. Even the best necro will miss a significant number of corrupt boons. You do learn how to hit it more and more over time though.

We have no mobility in or out of combat and really no boons. Marks also dont work on downed players which hurts us alot. Our aoe is how aoe should be. It is weak 1v1 but strong in team fights.

This contrasts with other classes whose aoe is still exceptional 1v1, and who have no weaknesses like a total lack of mobility or boons.

And to run corrupt boon/epidemic/res signet you have no stun breakers at all. And your obviously weaker than you would otherwise be 1 on 1

I think necro is one of the most powerful classes in team-fights to keep the conditions rolling. All he needs to know is where to position himself. As i see most good necros are not running in the middle clusterkitten at all, they just take terrain advantage being in balconies in the middle objectives to nuke stuff without taking damage, and if you get pulled you can still take use of your huge health pool.. not to mention you will also be able to ress (in a very common tournament spec).

Ranger is more of a close point defender… especially against elementalists. But put them in a team fight and they’re not that good in my opinion. Engineers are alright too just like necros, but unlike them, they need to stay in close range to be effective (again using most common tournament builds out there).

Save Yourself + Corrupt Boon + Epidemic = Amazing

In team fights as a condition build I’ve used this countless times to wipe groups out. There’s always that guy who pops every boon and unknowingly weakens his entire group. So what if they cleanse it, that just means they no longer have that cleanse! It’s all about putting people on the defensive and making them regret fighting you, either by running away or dying.

Quote not loading so i’m just going to respond to taym here:
Ranger doesn’t need to be w/e copy pasta build you are using. They can run conditions as well, and do it a hell of a lot better than you’d think. Also, trap rangers can run w/e else they feel like, i believe trap rangers need to take what…the 30 points in crit for traps? Rangers also have a skill + crit chance for bleeds. Yeah, they have utility duh.
-AGAIN- You are not taking into account IMPLEMENTATION, you are just spouting out straw man arguments about pets auto attack(really, look at the skills for pets even, cmon that is just lazy).
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Sadly warrior has a better time than necro for condition removal builds. The cooldowns alone prove this.
AGAIN- Implementation vs “two types”(just a hint, necro has ONE, bleeds, their poison damage is awful.).
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Warrior has skill mobility. And as for “higher hp” and deathshroud/plague.
1. You need to BUILD deathshroud.
2. Higher hp(not by much mind you) means nothing if you sit there and take all the hits.
3. AHAHAHAHAH, you popped plague. Lets just stand 5 feet outside your radius and laugh at you while we can auto attack you down.(says every range class ever.)
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Yeah, well any number of different combinations still beats the necro helping in team fights.
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On a final note: reality vs on-paper.

You have to take into account everything and the other versions of your tactics. Yeah, necro’s could stand on a ledge and nuke. So could rangers or ele’s, and they don’t need conditions for that.(static field + firestorm, there you go, better than necro).

This is kind of obvious but: If necro is basically there for just epidemic and his pitful dots, why not just bring any other combination that can’t be nullified with condition removal?

Sorry, but a necro in team fight is god tier.

Also Corrupt boon + epidemic is trash compared to wells (IMO).

:edit:
I really struggle to think of anything that can bring to the table what a necro can in a team fight. The only real downfall of the necro is that they are pretty average outside of team fights. Mobility and 1v1 wise. But yeah, nothing much can clear a point like a well played necro.

Nothing wrong with necro, power/crit daggers or s/d terror builds both fine and viable in tpvp.

If you’re having trouble I would suggest stick with it and practice, it will come in time.

Umm pretty sure necro just takes a lot of skill. I know some necros who run
0/30/10/0/30 s/d staff rabid amulet
I know 2 of them who are amazing players and they do some serious dmg and they can 1v1 most people I’ve seen in duels they just time fear which does damage and the player can’t heal and they just kill people it’s awesome.

In the original post u said necros can’t bleed like rangers?
Scepters 3rd attack is poison

fakeblood.2576:

In the original post u said necros can’t bleed like rangers?
Scepters 3rd attack is poison

Hmm how do I put this gently, Necro’s have a harder time applying sufficient bleeds than rangers do and they don’t use poison to mix it.
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Scepter 3rd auto attack is poison, yes, it does how much damage? 500? Same as bleeds? Yeah….. no.
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Anyway, this “L2P” stuff is cute, but thats not the point of this thread.

Empiren.6401:

Anyway, this “L2P” stuff is cute, but thats not the point of this thread.

The “point” of this thread is apparently to incessantly whine about necros, ignoring everything that makes them amazing, and disregarding anyone whose opinion differs from your own. What exactly were you hoping to accomplish here?

You directly counter ever boon-based bunker (all of them) in the game.

A lot of damage / pressure specs also rely on stacking boons (whether it’s might, vigor, swiftness, or fury) which means you can also be very deadly to them as well

Your condition-based elite basically forces a node neutralization / cap every time you use it.

Fear also forces targets off of points (if you know how to use it), can deal good damage, and renders the target inable to control themselves for the duration, which means with teammates around, you can kill almost anything.

Death Shroud is theoretically the best bunker ability in the game (except maybe some weird Flamethrower build) because it effectively doubles the time you can spend tanking enemies.

Your strength with conditions doesn’t necessarily stem from being able to spam your 1 key and get 15+ stacks of bleeds going, but your ability to turn your enemies advantages into equally proportionate disadvantages, create pressure by controlling the effects and position of your enemies, and use the huge amount of group pressure you have access to to effectively steal nodes for your team.

This is Conquest PvP, not 2v2 or 3v3, and in this game mode, your class is more than capable of excelling.

Empiren.6401:

On a final note: reality vs on-paper.

You have to take into account everything and the other versions of your tactics. Yeah, necro’s could stand on a ledge and nuke. So could rangers or ele’s, and they don’t need conditions for that.(static field + firestorm, there you go, better than necro).

This is kind of obvious but: If necro is basically there for just epidemic and his pitful dots, why not just bring any other combination that can’t be nullified with condition removal?

Most people in this thread are trying to clear your misconceptions about Necro and other classes which is quite funny to me. I have tried to help as well, as have people who play necro as their main. You say this reality vs on paper thing as much as possible but I don’t even think you are playing at the level as everyone in this thread is. Your problems are a L2Play issue as evidenced by your elevation of condi-warrior. The team I play with has a condi-cleave team comp that is centered around the good use of a necro and it works well.

I have also tried to share why the other classes you mentioned cannot use conditions at a large distance which is a large advantage. Most of the condition applications of the comparison classes are not AoE as well, whereas most weapon application of bleeds (other than autoattack) have a secondary effect and cause it to an area.

You also mentioned that necros ONLY have bleeds when they have one of the most diverse range of conditions of any class. The only ones to which they have no access are confusion and burning, meaning they have poison, chill, cripple, weakness, bleed, fear, immobilize and blind. The warrior in “condition” has access to immobilize, burn, and bleed and thus if their target has any condition removal they are penalized more for it…

There is another condition ranger build, I do agree that it does exist and they do go up the marksman tree. However the amount of players that do this is very limited, and in order to make up for this they run axe instead of sword which destroys their survivability. The only other possible condi build is with the heal amu plays without traps and without penetration but has access to the pets hitting for as much as you are saying. You are giving the argument that the rangers are playing 30/30/30/30/30 build which is adding to the misconceptions of other classes. Stahp plz.

I do appreciate that you are trying to clear misconceptions from the class you are playing, however I think you should stick to the single class you are trying to clear of misconceptions rather than point to your misconceptions of other classes as supporting evidence that your class is missing/weaker/etc.

sidenote: if you type out L2Play Issue and remove lay from play it sensors you for stuff :P

i got chain feared the other day in sPVP, checked my death sheet, 11k dmg from fear. i didnt have a stun break on cd, so there was absolutely nothing i could of done to avoid it. i dont play necro but i thought that was pretty impressive

Verisuvalise.3615:

You directly counter ever boon-based bunker (all of them) in the game.

A lot of damage / pressure specs also rely on stacking boons (whether it’s might, vigor, swiftness, or fury) which means you can also be very deadly to them as well

Your condition-based elite basically forces a node neutralization / cap every time you use it.

Fear also forces targets off of points (if you know how to use it), can deal good damage, and renders the target inable to control themselves for the duration, which means with teammates around, you can kill almost anything.

Death Shroud is theoretically the best bunker ability in the game (except maybe some weird Flamethrower build) because it effectively doubles the time you can spend tanking enemies.

Your strength with conditions doesn’t necessarily stem from being able to spam your 1 key and get 15+ stacks of bleeds going, but your ability to turn your enemies advantages into equally proportionate disadvantages, create pressure by controlling the effects and position of your enemies, and use the huge amount of group pressure you have access to to effectively steal nodes for your team.

This is Conquest PvP, not 2v2 or 3v3, and in this game mode, your class is more than capable of excelling.

Hmm… How do i put this….
1. Corrupt boon is a good skill, but requires a boon-heavy class. Sure it helps when they pop all their boons under heavy fire, but its not going to win a 1v1 or really do much good unless you have them pop all their boons. You are counting on them running a boon heavy build, its not gonna happen, especially since most bunkers don’t need all those boons to survive and avoid that just for this purpose.(also doesn’t work on ele).
2. You see plague isn’t as great as you think it is. Its very limiting honestly and although it might double your hp, any range can just burst you down. Stability can also be stripped easily wala, entire elite done. It doesn’t Force a cap, it forces people to focus you. If 2 or more people are range, you will most likely die in a heartbeat.
3. Our fear is again, bad. Long cooldowns for short duration fears, even when trait.
4. Death shroud is one of the worse abilities in the game. Good concept, horrible execution.

@Taym

:/ Its hard to prove to people condition damage or such is bad.

Why? Because if it does ANY damage, people will still think its good. That is the logic that I’m constantly met with and have seen forever in the wow forums. I try to use comparisons of other similar skills in hopes that people will realize the difference. It works 50% of the time honestly, but they have to have played that class as well.
———————
Lets say bleeds on necro do 50% less, the logic still remains the same for most of these people supporting conditions. Eh
—————-

Also, that is funny

Most bunkers don’t use boons to survive? Wow.

I hope aspiring necros don’t listen to this “expert” and keep on practicing. Unless this is supposed to be ironic, everything you’d said is a misconception about necros.

Oareo.1604:

Most bunkers don’t use boons to survive? Wow.

I hope aspiring necros don’t listen to this “expert” and keep on practicing. Unless this is supposed to be ironic, everything you’d said is a misconception about necros.

Sensationalism? Why bother?

Most bunkers don’t need lyssa or all the boons at once in order to do their job, which makes corrupt boon not as effective as “on paper”. That being said good bunkers who are reliant on boons, know how to re-apply said boons if one gets flipped or stripped. You have to realize that we aren’t the only class with boon stripping abilities, and bunkers are generally used to that. Oh you stripped that ele’s protection/regen? Re-apply. Nice long cooldown for that corrupt boon though.

Again, please don’t use sensationalism when my post are in the same page, its lazy. Bunkers use boons, they just don’t need enough for corrupt boon to make a huge difference.

Corrupt boon / epidemic is getting less and less viable, due to team-based condition-removes (eg. water-attuenement, shout-guard with soldier-runes). What I would play is wells, for boons-into-conditions. It’s not only on one target. As the necro is a dedicated teamfighter and will often act in teamfights, wells are on top. Corrupt boon is viable for taking out single classes faster.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Corrupt boon / epidemic is getting less and less viable, due to team-based condition-removes (eg. water-attuenement, shout-guard with soldier-runes). What I would play is wells, for boons-into-conditions. It’s not only on one target. As the necro is a dedicated teamfighter and will often act in teamfights, wells are on top. Corrupt boon is viable for taking out single classes faster.

I prefer wells myself, but the problem is that people have to sit in them for it to be ok and their cooldowns are generally 1 maybe 2 a fight.
—————-

On a side note: Spectral armor needs a lower C/D 90 seconds for protection? lol.

The only way to make corrupt boon land 100% is by chaining it immediately after a fear, or coordinate it with a stun/knockback from your team mate(s). If they got stability up, you just gotta take your chances and hope no random block/dodge screws you up.
And yea, spectral armor’s re is quite a joke.
Plague is only really good for stalling, and relieving pressure in team fights, granted your team offers you some support, otherwise you’re likely to die to ranged, aoe and other damage. If they corrupt your boons while in plague, then you might as well cancel it. Sometimes you can use it as an oshiat skill to avoid a spike if out or low on ds (kinda sad, considering how other classes have such skills on far lower cds, and with a better effect too). Also, in 1v1matches the thing is nothing more than a handicap.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Corrupt boon / epidemic is getting less and less viable, due to team-based condition-removes (eg. water-attuenement, shout-guard with soldier-runes). What I would play is wells, for boons-into-conditions. It’s not only on one target. As the necro is a dedicated teamfighter and will often act in teamfights, wells are on top. Corrupt boon is viable for taking out single classes faster.

False as usual. The build based around wells does not fit well at all into a condition build and the traits means that the whole build kind of doesnt make sense. Corrupt boon and epidemic is by far the best necro build.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Corrupt boon / epidemic is getting less and less viable, due to team-based condition-removes (eg. water-attuenement, shout-guard with soldier-runes). What I would play is wells, for boons-into-conditions. It’s not only on one target. As the necro is a dedicated teamfighter and will often act in teamfights, wells are on top. Corrupt boon is viable for taking out single classes faster.

False as usual. The build based around wells does not fit well at all into a condition build and the traits means that the whole build kind of doesnt make sense. Corrupt boon and epidemic is by far the best necro build.

Wells are perfect for a condition build. I think you just not tried yet, but saying my statement is false, tells me you played since release just one build. W/E i won’t discuss this any further with ppl that refuse to accept different meanings.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Corrupt boon / epidemic is getting less and less viable, due to team-based condition-removes (eg. water-attuenement, shout-guard with soldier-runes). What I would play is wells, for boons-into-conditions. It’s not only on one target. As the necro is a dedicated teamfighter and will often act in teamfights, wells are on top. Corrupt boon is viable for taking out single classes faster.

False as usual. The build based around wells does not fit well at all into a condition build and the traits means that the whole build kind of doesnt make sense. Corrupt boon and epidemic is by far the best necro build.

Wells are perfect for a condition build. I think you just not tried yet, but saying my statement is false, tells me you played since release just one build. W/E i won’t discuss this any further with ppl that refuse to accept different meanings.

I played wells for ages and it is just worse than corrupt boon and epidemic.You cant take hemophillia, focussed rituals and terror. It is hard to run a good condi build without both terror and hemophillia imo.

In addition, avoiding wells is easy during team fights. It is unlikely the opposition wont rotate on and off points limiting the power of your wells. IMO wells fit better into a build with more power.

There are also maps like spirit watch and legacy where wells suck because the middle is too big on legacy and because the fighting is too mobile on spirit watch.

Who the hell would play a necro on spirit watch, when you can run nades-engi? On legacy I agree. Avoiding a well during teamfight if ppl fight on the node is pretty hard.

Empiren.6401:

Necro’s use bleeds for damage(because they have no poison/fire with high dmg).

-Do the overall damage top rangers? No. Rangers have poison(which also blocks heals) and bleeds at the same time.

Bro, do you even necro?

What wells are so much better thakitten0/50 corrupt boon + epidemic.

I’ve said it before, as far as clearing a point goes, a necro can do it with the best of them.

:edit:
Why is tha"n a (number five)"getting censored?

Infectious.4836:

:edit:
Why is tha"n a (number five)"getting censored?

Probably because if you change the ( to an l, you know to stop people from bypassing the filter but that is my only guess. Personally I would take it off and if someone starts bypassing the filter you just take their forum access away :/

Necroes are balanced.

There are no misconceptions: if you’re bad Necro makes you play worse, but if you’re skilled Necro can be very strong.

wtf is N A I supposed to be?

Hey OP I remember a post just like this (that you started) a few days ago..

I know your trolling, but screw it I’ll bite..

Anyway I cbf getting into some long-winded debate with you, because just like the last post you simply want to complain your not op enough and that every other class is stronger.

So firstly, you made this statement -“Anything else you’d like to add?
-Minion Skills are spread out to make a player choose between minion damage or player survival.(condition draw or 30% damage)”

Yeah you’re wrong, so here’s a link -

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=;0833cJGtHkD0z3VI-K0;9;4J-JT-48;229-16A;1KJF44JV0KJG4KJG48RV

Some of the key features of this build are -

• 30% extra minion damage
• Minions draw conditions
• minions have 50% extra health
• minion skills recharge 20% faster
• minions (and you) siphon extra health
• 30k hp pool
• 48% crit

But I see you point you still have to choose between traits…, I agree with you that I’d also love another 30 points in curses and maybe another 30 in soul reaping, but there is only so many points to go around…

But seriously your choice is only what grand master trait to have, whether its draw conditions, poison cloud or axe training – could also go for close to death if you felt so inclined..

Secondly, I think your whole viewpoint, especially when it comes to conditions is flawed. You complain that other classes can stack conditions faster (and that Necros don’t have poison – seriously? hahahaha, so many attacks/fields/utilities and even signets have access to poison as well as the majority of conditions available), well yes your kinda right there other classes can potentially stack one condition faster than a necro, but I think your missing one of the key options available to you as a necro.

The fact is you can build a necro to be centred on bleeds, by having blood is power, 30% condition duration, extra bleeds on crit, hemophillia and by stacking all +15% bleed duration runes, but why would you..? Bleeds that last for ages, will most definitely be cleansed at some point and if that’s all you’ve got, then yeah your kinda boned.

However, I think your missing the point that as a necro you have access to your opponents conditions as well! With the right build you can be giving your opponent at least 4 conditions at once, plus any conditions you happen to be carrying at the time.

In most matches you will have a mesmer and/or an ele on the other side which will give you access to conditions you don’t normally have (*you can use corrupt boon to convert boons into conditions you don’t normally have), such as confusion and burning.

On top of that you probably have noticed that a lot of Necro skills are detrimental, ie: they give you bleeds, poison or w/e, the whole point of you getting conditions is to use it offensively by transferring it out to your opponents.

So here’s a pretty standard build which is designed to bank conditions as well as apply your own -

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=;044Z-JGlHFC0r33J-K0;9;4JT-J-39-12B;114;2KRG4-JV0KJG4KJG48Re - Condition (Main weapons – Scepter/Dagger)

The problem a lot of Necro’s have (including your post about conditions being bad) is that they tend to focus on stacking one type of attack – mainly bleeds, and as you know most opponents find it very easy to cleanse 1 or 2 conditions (for example – Warrior heal ‘mending’ only cures 3, – shake it off does 2..), so this build is pretty much designed to drop as many different conditions on your opponents as possible and keep them controlled.

Because of the signet, you are effectively banking other peoples conditions (you don’t need to be actually in the middle of the fight to get conditions), so that you can dish them out (donate them to your opponents :]) at a later stage – your not only helping your team in general by pulling conditions off them, but you are basically being providing with a range of conditions (some of which you cant normally get) to use as your ammunition.

As you can see, you pretty much tend to be swapping between scepter and staff to get the optimal transfer rate on the the conditions you’re picking up – should be able to give away your conditions every 10 secs or so.

The reason for the knights amulet and the 20 points in blood magic is so you have a decent health pool to soak damage from the conditions you’re picking up and as you have a high crit, you are handing out extra conditions of your own – ie: weakness, vulnerability, bleeds.

If you’re finding you are stacking too many conditions, you have a lot of ways of getting rid of them as well, either by using consume conditions (which will give you a nice amount of health back – every 25 secs), using your golem (which also provides a handy knockdown – pretty much every 50 secs [internal cooldown]) or your signet – every 48 secs (heh just transfer all of your banked conditions to your opponent in one hit).

The reason why corrupt boon is a part of the build is that I personally find that in tpvp you tend to get more players stacking boons, particularly bunkers, so its good for breaking them down somewhat, you could always swap it out for blood is power for the might bonus and extra bleeds and if you are particularly good at kiting and don’t mind the loss of a few thousand HP and crit, you could use carrion amulet instead of knights amulet for a bit extra condition damage.

Oh and as some players do have quite decent condition removal, why not target the pet and use epidemic to spread your conditions that way…

Lastly, you (I have no idea why…) complain about having high HP and DS, now I have no idea what kind of build you are trying to use, but it looks like you are trying to use DS offensively and you are complaining about face tanking everything. I personally see these things as defensive only, sometimes you may need to last just a little longer in order to get to your next healing cooldown, or to your next protection buff.

Oh and as others have pointed out, the difference between cloth and heavy armour is 200 toughness…

If you’re complaining about health regen, again its a L2Play or build thing, with the right build you can be ‘regenning’ a lot of hp, without having a regen boon active. Heh on my primary necro build its easy to tank a few 100b warriors and/or thieves while pretty much staying at full hp, and again you haven’t mentioned consume conditions which can give you a heap of life if you are covered in conditions.

As it appears that you have done no research, or as others have pointed out you haven’t played the class enough (yeah I think it’s a L2Play issue you are encountering as well) and you are clearly wrong in some cases how can anyone take your argument/complaint seriously..

Not that I’d mind getting a buff mind you, but dont think that the Necro is in a bad a place as what you would have everyone believe and personally I would rather have Anet work on class bugs and minion AI before anything else.

Why on earth would anyone spec into condition duration as a necro appart from using it for fear?