season 6 mm suggestion
Show all individual’s stats and MMR + gain/loss at the end of the match.
—This will allow people to give fact based feedback, and see for themselves if the match making is working as intended.
^^^
no.
this will allow people to give hate based feedback to lower rating players.
Show individual’s MMR on your team before match.
—So you know who you may need to help out if there is a big gap in ratings.
^^^
no.
higher rated players may decide for themselves that the match is already over before it even started.
Give everyone and their pets a generic name for the match so you don’t know who you are playing with or against. (e.g. Red1, 2, 3, 4, 5)
—Prevent match manipulation and queue dodging
^^^
no. just no.
this removes individualism and uniqueness of players.
Disable map chat, whispers, and say in matches.
—Prevent match manipulation
^^^
no.
Disable the ability to see if people on your friends/block list are in a match.
—Prevent queue dodging
^^^
no.
- #1 Sure, it definitely needs to happen. For those worried about toxic players, you’re being paranoid. Players can check your rating right now if they wanted to. Even with all these badges and visible ratings, I have seen no change in player attitudes, the decent ones are still decent and the rude ones are still rude. Fact is, it is a useful tool that will allow the players to provide better feedback.
- #2 No, you should never show ratings before a match. The small instances where this could be actually useful is far outweighed by the effect it will have on a player’s attitude during the match.
- #3 No, this would actually take away some of the fun of the game, and I really don’t understand what match manipulation or queue dodging this solves. Just no point in this.
- #4 Also not sure what match manipulation issues you’ve been experiencing that would make you suggest this, however, this could actually cut down on a bit of the trash talking during matches, so I’m in favor of this. Really, there is no reason players need say, whisper, or map chat during a match anyways.
- #5 Only if they bring back Team Queue. Currently, blocking bad players/trolls/toxic players/afk’ers and queue dodging them is the only way to make sure you don’t get stuck with them on your team. I’m sure people abuse this to avoid better players too, but if you remove this feature you will screw over every player that just wants to enjoy pvp without other people that are deliberately trying to ruin it.
- #6 & 7 Sure, more information is always welcome.
- More Radical Suggestions: No. All Ranked PvP needs is Team Queue, nothing else. I’m sure Anet will always keep Solo Queue around, but honestly it is just hurting PvP. People say they don’t want to have to bother with finding teammates, and then come to the forums to complain about the team Anet gave them. People say the population is just too small for Team Queue to exist, yet Anet can consistently find a team for everyone in the queue in under 2 min most of the time. Anet admits they can not accurately judge your individual performance in a match, yet you people think your individual rating is somehow accurate. What solo, duo, and trio players need is their own game mode.
Agree to Shaogin except regarding solo Q.
Solo/Duo is by far the greatest population. I expect only 1% of all players will build/join a full team. Epecially playing it regulary. It might end in custom made random teams against trained premades (ups we already had it). It makes absolutely no sense. I support a full team Q but its independent. The just jump in or play with a friend heavily outweights full team Q.
Agree to Shaogin except regarding solo Q.
Solo/Duo is by far the greatest population. I expect only 1% of all players will build/join a full team. Epecially playing it regulary. It might end in custom made random teams against trained premades (ups we already had it). It makes absolutely no sense. I support a full team Q but its independent. The just jump in or play with a friend heavily outweights full team Q.
Of course the solo/duo queue has a higher population, it gives the same rewards with a fraction of the effort. We have never had a pure 5v5 only Team Queue, it has always been mixed. Even when Solo Queue and Team Queue were separate, Team Queue was a mix of various team sizes. Anet has never provided players with any incentive for even giving Team Queue a try.
If players want to duke it out to see who the best solo player is that’s fine, but 5v5 is not the place to do that. You say jump in or play with a friend heavily outweighs full team queue, yet all I see every single season so far is people complaining about this very system.
5v5 was made for teams. If you want to play solo/duo/trio, then you should be fighting for 1v1/2v2/3v3 game modes instead of encouraging the further destruction of 5v5 Team PvP.
I also encourage 2:2, 3:3 or 4:4 modes ;-). Might be a population issue but basically make 2,3,4,5 player scenarios then give people the option to select the mode they want to be used in. Current Mode is 5:5. Full 5 man teams should be supported in competative play but seperated from solo players or at least they can opt out to play against full premades.
I think TeamQ will not work as it was, as much as I hope it would.
However I think it would work with some limitations. Like only being able to queu there during weekends. That would focus the teams into a certain time frame instead of spreading them out through the week. And 5-man team entry only.
Yannir for males. (guard,thief,war,ele)
Sonya for females. (necro,rev,ranger,mes,engi)
All classes lvl 80.
Sonya for females. (necro,rev,ranger,mes,engi)
All classes lvl 80.
I think TeamQ will not work as it was, as much as I hope it would.
However I think it would work with some limitations. Like only being able to queu there during weekends. That would focus the teams into a certain time frame instead of spreading them out through the week. And 5-man team entry only.
Team Queue is already working, the only difference being Anet is picking your teammates.
Agree to Shaogin except regarding solo Q.
Solo/Duo is by far the greatest population. I expect only 1% of all players will build/join a full team. Epecially playing it regulary. It might end in custom made random teams against trained premades (ups we already had it). It makes absolutely no sense. I support a full team Q but its independent. The just jump in or play with a friend heavily outweights full team Q.Of course the solo/duo queue has a higher population, it gives the same rewards with a fraction of the effort. We have never had a pure 5v5 only Team Queue, it has always been mixed. Even when Solo Queue and Team Queue were separate, Team Queue was a mix of various team sizes. Anet has never provided players with any incentive for even giving Team Queue a try.
If players want to duke it out to see who the best solo player is that’s fine, but 5v5 is not the place to do that. You say jump in or play with a friend heavily outweighs full team queue, yet all I see every single season so far is people complaining about this very system.
5v5 was made for teams. If you want to play solo/duo/trio, then you should be fighting for 1v1/2v2/3v3 game modes instead of encouraging the further destruction of 5v5 Team PvP.
no
sinse gw1 they had random arenas and worked(yeah they are more like courtyard but is also team play), it dont work when mixing qs, random/solo q is a good game mode, you not only have to play your toon correctly you have to coordinate with unknows and that is part of the skill of soloq ,bringing precoordinated groups , dont matter the size, to that scenario is incorrect
and they have to implement other sort of q for teams, and automated tournament in stipulated hours or a 5 man q, or a mixed team q that can put you in scenarios 5 vs 5 or 2+3 vs 2+3 or even work to a mode for 2+2 vs 2+2 and in some cases rare ones with proper adjustments in a 2+3 vs 5. dunno know what of these solutions can be the better
1v1 is not an scenario possible with that umbalanced class system,
To me the biggest thing is still matchmaking. I think the system is way better than it was in S1-S5. Grind based rewards are separated from skill based ratings and you can see your MMR now. However, there are still issues (maybe just perceived) that need to be addressed: both match manipulation and the decisions behind the system that actually make the matches. To me the most important things to focus on for matchmaking are more transparency on skill ratings for who we are playing with/against, knowing what we want the match maker to do, and to eliminate in game tools that can be used for match manipulation.
- Show all individual’s stats and MMR + gain/loss at the end of the match.
—This will allow people to give fact based feedback, and see for themselves if the match making is working as intended.
…but it won’t, my friend, it won’t. We already have the pseudocode and constants used by PvP stuff, and the MMR display, and people still complain that it’s broken, they don’t understand it.
They also demonstrate that, eg, they firmly believe that the change in MMR is related to the MMR of the other team, not the expected win/loss and their own volatility, with comments such as “we shouldn’t lose 45 MMR for a loss against a higher MMR team”, etc.
Your suggestion is an “economist” suggestion: it would be absolutely correct, if only we were not all fluffy, kitten-headed kittens who made decisions, and hold beliefs, for all sorts of irrational reasons.
Show all individual’s stats and MMR + gain/loss at the end of the match.
—This will allow people to give fact based feedback, and see for themselves if the match making is working as intended.
^^^
no.
this will allow people to give hate based feedback to lower rating players.
Currently we have a whole thread dedicated to trying to figure this out. Based on what I’ve seen there is not a huge variation on an individual team’s rating, but the difference between two teams can vary quite a bit. Gold playing high plat/legend. If people see this happening all the time then they know they have a valid basis to complain. However, if it is only happening once every 300 matches then they should have more confidence in the match making algorithm. Right now most of the forum complaints are mostly exaggerations and wild speculation with a few legitimate concerns lost in the noise.
Give everyone and their pets a generic name for the match so you don’t know who you are playing with or against. (e.g. Red1, 2, 3, 4, 5)
—Prevent match manipulation and queue dodging
^^^
no. just no.
this removes individualism and uniqueness of players.
There is plenty of time for that while you are queueing. The match making system should be making the decision who plays whom. People dodging others puts players that exploit the system at a higher rating than they deserve. This in turn undermines the whole match making system. The most visible example is at the top of the ladder. While the people that are ranked in the top 5 with a 13-0 record are most likely better than any platinum player, they probably aren’t better than the player that has 200 matches under their belt but is ranked in the top 20.
Disable map chat, whispers, and say in matches.
—Prevent match manipulation
^^^
no.
I would like someone to offer up how often they have a meaningful discussion in map chat or whisper during a match vs. the normal “you suck”, “uninstall pleb”, and “I’m reporting you for hacking”. You can use emotes if you want to taunt people. It will require less time to type out too.
To me the biggest thing is still matchmaking. I think the system is way better than it was in S1-S5. Grind based rewards are separated from skill based ratings and you can see your MMR now. However, there are still issues (maybe just perceived) that need to be addressed: both match manipulation and the decisions behind the system that actually make the matches. To me the most important things to focus on for matchmaking are more transparency on skill ratings for who we are playing with/against, knowing what we want the match maker to do, and to eliminate in game tools that can be used for match manipulation.
- Show all individual’s stats and MMR + gain/loss at the end of the match.
—This will allow people to give fact based feedback, and see for themselves if the match making is working as intended.…but it won’t, my friend, it won’t. We already have the pseudocode and constants used by PvP stuff, and the MMR display, and people still complain that it’s broken, they don’t understand it.
They also demonstrate that, eg, they firmly believe that the change in MMR is related to the MMR of the other team, not the expected win/loss and their own volatility, with comments such as “we shouldn’t lose 45 MMR for a loss against a higher MMR team”, etc.
Your suggestion is an “economist” suggestion: it would be absolutely correct, if only we were not all fluffy, kitten-headed kittens who made decisions, and hold beliefs, for all sorts of irrational reasons.
There have been a few cases where people have identified issues. If people have the tools, they will be better able to document things that looks suspicious in the MM system vs. venting about how the system is out to get them. No mater how good a job the developers do, there will be some stuff that gets through.
- #3 No, this would actually take away some of the fun of the game, and I really don’t understand what match manipulation or queue dodging this solves. Just no point in this.
- #4 Also not sure what match manipulation issues you’ve been experiencing that would make you suggest this, however, this could actually cut down on a bit of the trash talking during matches, so I’m in favor of this. Really, there is no reason players need say, whisper, or map chat during a match anyways.
It is a fact that people add people to their friends and block list in order to either avoid them or try to queue with them by chance. If you don’t know who the players are you are playing with and against you can’t do this.
- #5 Only if they bring back Team Queue. Currently, blocking bad players/trolls/toxic players/afk’ers and queue dodging them is the only way to make sure you don’t get stuck with them on your team. I’m sure people abuse this to avoid better players too, but if you remove this feature you will screw over every player that just wants to enjoy pvp without other people that are deliberately trying to ruin it.
If player names are not available, you could implement community officiated matches. Then you could get someone to immediately validate reports of AFK players and feeding trolls. There is no way a-net could do this without free community help, but there is no way the community could do this if they knew the player/guild names of the people being reported.
- More Radical Suggestions: No. All Ranked PvP needs is Team Queue, nothing else. I’m sure Anet will always keep Solo Queue around, but honestly it is just hurting PvP. People say they don’t want to have to bother with finding teammates, and then come to the forums to complain about the team Anet gave them. People say the population is just too small for Team Queue to exist, yet Anet can consistently find a team for everyone in the queue in under 2 min most of the time. Anet admits they can not accurately judge your individual performance in a match, yet you people think your individual rating is somehow accurate. What solo, duo, and trio players need is their own game mode.
There were two reasons for the suggestion. First, it would force people to play each other for final rankings. The way the system is now, people in the top 10 could theoretically never play each other during the season. Second, it would provide a way to get official team based tournaments for all levels.
The issue with teams is it takes time to make them and less people are going to be interested in them. I used to do HOH in GW1 a lot. Even with a good friends list it could take 30 minutes just to get into a match. God forbid you lose the first match and then you end up spending another 15-20 mins picking up more players. If they have scheduled events for the team based matches it would give people time to prepare in advance.
Agree to Shaogin except regarding solo Q.
Solo/Duo is by far the greatest population. I expect only 1% of all players will build/join a full team. Epecially playing it regulary. It might end in custom made random teams against trained premades (ups we already had it). It makes absolutely no sense. I support a full team Q but its independent. The just jump in or play with a friend heavily outweights full team Q.Of course the solo/duo queue has a higher population, it gives the same rewards with a fraction of the effort. We have never had a pure 5v5 only Team Queue, it has always been mixed. Even when Solo Queue and Team Queue were separate, Team Queue was a mix of various team sizes. Anet has never provided players with any incentive for even giving Team Queue a try.
If players want to duke it out to see who the best solo player is that’s fine, but 5v5 is not the place to do that. You say jump in or play with a friend heavily outweighs full team queue, yet all I see every single season so far is people complaining about this very system.
5v5 was made for teams. If you want to play solo/duo/trio, then you should be fighting for 1v1/2v2/3v3 game modes instead of encouraging the further destruction of 5v5 Team PvP.
Now that I think of it, I’d have to say you’re right. Solo players, in the long run, are better off advocating for 1v1.
However, I still propose a separate solo queue and team queue as a compromise. This compromise is ONLY because solo players, duos, etc don’t have their own modes to play in, and it’s not like ANet is planning any new ones anytime soon. Also, PvP is balanced entirely on 5v5, not 1v1. You’d have to separate balance even further if you want to make new modes like 1v1,2v2,etc. That takes a lot more work and resources.
To me the biggest thing is still matchmaking.
So let’s address this first. I agree fully that this is a problem if the system is to remain as is with only a solo/duo queue.
If it is than my suggestions would be:
1: Locked teams, no swapping classes. And the class balancing needs to be better. There should not be two of the same class on one team, unless there are 3 in the match and than 2 on one team 1 on the other, and so forth balance from there.
2: Add a forfeit option, sometimes you can tell by team moral that it is just over early in the match. Higher penalty for forfeit, unless team is missing a person, or something along those lines to reduce attempted forfeits.
- Show all individual’s stats and MMR + gain/loss at the end of the match.
—This will allow people to give fact based feedback, and see for themselves if the match making is working as intended.
This would be useful with the current solo/duo queue. There is a lot of data for anet to sift through, and while automated algorithms may find some patterns, players could see something that is not being caught by the devs.
- Give information on what the desired split is for bronze/silver/gold/plat/legend.
—It would be nice to know where you stand % wise. Looking at badges that I see in the PvP lobby and around the main areas, it looks like bronze is the most populated tier.
This would be interesting to know, is it 5% legend, 10% plat and so forth?
Of course the solo/duo queue has a higher population, it gives the same rewards with a fraction of the effort. We have never had a pure 5v5 only Team Queue, it has always been mixed. Even when Solo Queue and Team Queue were separate, Team Queue was a mix of various team sizes. Anet has never provided players with any incentive for even giving Team Queue a try.
Team Queue is already working, the only difference being Anet is picking your teammates.
These go together. What really needs to change is the Team options. Some others addressed this as well so some of it is reiteration. Ranked Season PvP should be 5 man pre-made ques, and that queue should only accept 5 man pre-made teams. If you are not in a 5 man team, then you should be in unranked (the perfect place to find new team mates, it feels just the same as playing ranked but doesn’t hold a weight).
If anet wants players to be able to queue without a team for a ranked game, than it needs to be a full different format than the current game, have the 1v1 arena, 2v2, and so forth. This gives new map development a chance to explore new modes, and doesn’t cut into the game type that the 5v5 is playing.
Guild Wars 1 had the random arena, and the team arena. Random arena was typically seen as the less serious of the two, so why emulate that game mode in the second game and make it the primary focus for Ranked game play.
While this next part seems way off topic for the thread I believe it is another piece of the problem.
PvE rewards should not be part of the PvP game play. While earning a legendary backpack was interesting by playing through the season achievements. I really feel I was just dragging down some games because I was not fully serious on playing for hyper competitive play. Instead I was there for whatever achievement I had left. To still give the PvP community decent rewards, give them just skins, they get enough transmute charges through the reward tracks. And if they want PvE gear, than play PvE to earn it, draw players there as well.
PvE players queue up and put in only the minimum effort so they can get the rewards that are being offered. Personally I’d be a little salty if only the legendary PvP players could unlock a new legendary backpack, but if its just a skin, like the black lion store skins, i’m not missing out on a limited craft able weapon.