Guild Wars 2

I am sure free2play has been brought up before but I thought I would throw out my current thoughts on it for spvp (only). I think it would be one of the best ways to bring in more people and population in spvp seems to be a large problem.

I am guessing no one is buying this game for spvp anymore. If there is someone in the forums who has bought it for spvp in the last 6 months please contradict me. I imagine Arenanet have statistics on how many players who purchased the game in the last 6 months and play spvp primarily, and how many immediately started playing spvp.

pros
- larger player base, which improves the game for paying players and more people to buy gems
- could influence people towards buying the full game when getting things that would help them in pve.
- compete against other pvp games which are predominantly free2play

To me spvp being free is the only thing that will increase the player base as it will get lots of people looking at it. Looking to the PVE players for an increase in player base is looking in the wrong place. Entirely new players who like pvp games is where we should be looking and at the moment this means getting people past the entry barrier by competing against LOL and DOTA which are free.

cons
- Need for development. This would require a redesigned client that allows users to start in spvp while adding pve and wvw as unlocks in gem store. Additionally coding to create a rule set for free players vs players who have spent money or unlocked other parts of the game. Clearly arenanet is already short on resources for development so this may be too much of an impediment. But after the China release?
- Potential need for increased moderation or blocking free player’s speech
- Possible impact on the economy or could always simply block mail/trading post
- Maybe the game just isn’t good enough and this turns away potential players and waists the investment into switching free to play.

To me need for development and the possible negative impact on new people being turned away from the pve because they don’t enjoy the pvp are the biggest negatives.

Monetization
I think it would be fine to just give away the entire spvp and hope people buy pve and wvw but looking at other free2play games it is often necessary to unlock characters so I thought I would offer an alternative here.
- Free classes – warrior as good starter, thief to avoid complaints, mesmer to avoid complaints. They are also different enough classes, and 1 of each armor type.
- free races – sylvari, Char, human
- 800 Gems per class unlock, or 2400 for all classes.
- 600 Gems per race unlock or both races for 800
Buying individually is more expensive but you don’t have to go all in. If you go with the packs you get all sPvP for the same price as the game. Not sure how much unlocking just pve and wvw but not classes should cost.

Roadmap to free spvp
Would take some time to develop this which probably puts it after China.
On balance, they need to get out the next feature release first. Then. every few weeks release some minor balance changes up until its ready so that hopefully it is in a better state by free2play release.

Or you know they could just do massive changes every few weeks, it won’t be balanced but at least it will continually be different, which seems better than not balanced and stale.

About me
I play a mix of all game types, casually so I may not be the best authority on this. While I see improved cross between pvp and pve as a positive step for bringing more casual players into pvp for me to fight. For esports I think you need pvp primary players, and this requires competing against other, free2play, esports games.

Thoughts?

Game’s not ready for this, but perhaps in Summer 2015 (not a joke). Build templates are necessary, or just having three premade builds per profession (giving 24 possible builds to start with). What happened to the community fighting game? That was a good idea although even that currently lacks a lot of the infrastructure to support it (mostly build templates and balance).

Sadly this suggestion was here from early 2013, a good suggestion, but it wont make a difference.

I think this would be a great idea because I used to be part of a very hardcore PvP guild that played f2p games exclusively which is the reason they did not consider GW2 in the first place.

To monetize GW2 PvP without hurting existing players and keeping the game attractive to potential customers they would need to implement a new type of account which is basically a PvP only account.
An example of this:

• 3 empty character slots by default.
• 2 bag slots open on each new character, including starter backpack.
• Access to PvP maps only, including HotM.
• No access to trading post, only Gemstore, however a means to get PvE related items upon spending gems, such as Black Lion chests to give incentive to buy full game.
• No access to gold to gem conversion or higher rates on conversion.
• PvP locker can only hold items up to a certain rank (and include an option to unlock for gems).

These are all to make sure people who bought the game have a huge advantage in terms of convenience, however f2p players have the choice to spend money on the game to make it equally convenient, essentially purchasing only the PvP part of the game.
Other Gemstore additions could include a 1 week WvW pass, where the player could be upleveled with exotic items much like in the EotM beta, with a choice to select stats but cannot unequip – type of gear and weapons and one time trait select. Or just a plain copy of their PvP character which will of course be weaker than regular full ascended item wielders but it would still be fair.
Upon buying the full game the WvW characters would be reset and players would have to start from 0 like normally, only they keep their existing characters amd inventories – or not. Either way it is possible and would be great to have new players.

It’s a great idea but to maintain the influx of new players there would be a few core components absolutely necessary to protect the new players:

• Brackets, r1-10, r10-20 – Right now this isn’t viable as you wouldn’t want to split the player base but with the influx it would balance out. – Thinking about this further it would be beneficial to have class specific ranks so when your new to a class you won’t be thrown into a pit.
  *Cannot join any form of team or solo queue until r20
  *Build templates and ability to browse popular builds IN GAME.
  *More game modes (coming soon, seriously.)
  *Better tutorial
  *Dueling in the mists – or at least something for entertainment in the mists to keep it full for the purpose of displaying that pvp isn’t dead.

why would they spend time making a f2p version that wont interact with the paid version for very little income gain? For a game mode they cant monetize.

I think their goal is to attract new players NOT new PvPers. They will make more money on the PvE side of thing than on the PvP side of things considering you cant monetize PvP too heavily without it being a problem. Hence why they are no f2p ONLY PvP MMORPG. The pvp acts like a checkbox

silvermember.8941:

why would they spend time making a f2p version that wont interact with the paid version for very little income gain?

Look at it this way: Imagine LoL having a b2p PvE side which also unlocks some skins for the regular Moba if you buy it. Riot would make more or the same amount of money, not changing the game but expanding it. Now GW2 already has PvE so they can just add an account version that does not include PvE and makes some of PvP pay to get, like skins. This would get them more players overall into their PvP, making the already existing players more motivated, bringing in potential customers that downloaded the game for PvP, liked the combat, read the lore and want to engage in the living story. There’s nothing bad about the idea aside from the time and resources invested.

I believe free-to-play spvp with smart monetization behind it would be excellent for this game. However, it should only happen after the pvp mode is greatly expanded upon. More game modes, improved reward system, build templates, improved matchmaking, improved balance, better tutorials, structured but unranked arenas, etc. After all that is ready, anet could then build on a massive f2p pvp marketing campaign and, who knows, perhaps acchieve some really high numbers.

DanyK.3842:

silvermember.8941:

why would they spend time making a f2p version that wont interact with the paid version for very little income gain?

Look at it this way: Imagine LoL having a b2p PvE side which also unlocks some skins for the regular Moba if you buy it. Riot would make more or the same amount of money, not changing the game but expanding it. Now GW2 already has PvE so they can just add an account version that does not include PvE and makes some of PvP pay to get, like skins. This would get them more players overall into their PvP, making the already existing players more motivated, bringing in potential customers that downloaded the game for PvP, liked the combat, read the lore and want to engage in the living story. There’s nothing bad about the idea aside from the time and resources invested.

LOL only works because you can sell champions, which is the essence of the game. So you can’t use LOL as a reference. What could they sell to f2p players? that is worth it. In any case you still havent given an incentive why they should do it

silvermember.8941:

DanyK.3842:

silvermember.8941:

why would they spend time making a f2p version that wont interact with the paid version for very little income gain?

Look at it this way: Imagine LoL having a b2p PvE side which also unlocks some skins for the regular Moba if you buy it. Riot would make more or the same amount of money, not changing the game but expanding it. Now GW2 already has PvE so they can just add an account version that does not include PvE and makes some of PvP pay to get, like skins. This would get them more players overall into their PvP, making the already existing players more motivated, bringing in potential customers that downloaded the game for PvP, liked the combat, read the lore and want to engage in the living story. There’s nothing bad about the idea aside from the time and resources invested.

LOL only works because you can sell champions, which is the essence of the game. So you can’t use LOL as a reference. What could they sell to f2p players? that is worth it. In any case you still havent given an incentive why they should do it

I mentioned how games like LOL involve unlocking characters in the original post and made suggestions for monetization that could get free players to spend at least as much as the current box price to have the basics of pvp, or the entire game unlocked. After that arenanet would be reliant on skins, custom arenas, finishers, and pvp players spending money in pve, as they currently are.

I agree that they probably need to be expanded upon that and would love to hear your suggestions, however if all there talk about esports is to be taken seriously I would hope they have ideas/statistics about what would be necessary in terms of funding. My point was more that this is the only way I see for them to reasonably increase the number of people playing, and having that increased player base would be necessary for esports.

aussieheals.6843:

It’s a great idea but to maintain the influx of new players there would be a few core components absolutely necessary to protect the new players:

• Brackets, r1-10, r10-20 – Right now this isn’t viable as you wouldn’t want to split the player base but with the influx it would balance out. – Thinking about this further it would be beneficial to have class specific ranks so when your new to a class you won’t be thrown into a pit.
  *Cannot join any form of team or solo queue until r20
  *Build templates and ability to browse popular builds IN GAME.
  *More game modes (coming soon, seriously.)
  *Better tutorial
  *Dueling in the mists – or at least something for entertainment in the mists to keep it full for the purpose of displaying that pvp isn’t dead.

THIS.

The game is actualy amazing, just some thing are COUNTER-INTUITIVE.

Build templates and brackets every 10ranks. Why? Cz new player ARE IDIOTS , you need to show them the game is fun at 1st sight , not to get a cheating feeling of hotjoin. If theese 2 things are fixed , with some other limitations, ANYONE WILL BUY the game in 10minutes

Like realy, why even hide ranks till end? hotjoin is a “random Call of Duty free-for-all” and there u see the “ranks” thus nobody feels bad at end:

“oh, we lost cz theyre all higher, not fair game”

This is the biggest wrong 1st impression new players get in spvp. Last week i spent +3hours talking to a r7 guy, with 1.500 hours played, most in wvw, why personal score shows nothing of how good a player you are. I was polite, actualy felt the challenge, but couldnt convince him from the stupidity, that hotjoin plants into new player

Hotjoin should be DRASTICALY DECREASED, to be made more like training grounds, till you hit, lets say r20, then focus them into real tourneys.
I know Anet has the “casual philosophy” but this time theyll be attracting a different crowd, the Free-pvp one, where ranked matches are main-point.

Biggby.6034:

silvermember.8941:

DanyK.3842:

silvermember.8941:

why would they spend time making a f2p version that wont interact with the paid version for very little income gain?

Look at it this way: Imagine LoL having a b2p PvE side which also unlocks some skins for the regular Moba if you buy it. Riot would make more or the same amount of money, not changing the game but expanding it. Now GW2 already has PvE so they can just add an account version that does not include PvE and makes some of PvP pay to get, like skins. This would get them more players overall into their PvP, making the already existing players more motivated, bringing in potential customers that downloaded the game for PvP, liked the combat, read the lore and want to engage in the living story. There’s nothing bad about the idea aside from the time and resources invested.

LOL only works because you can sell champions, which is the essence of the game. So you can’t use LOL as a reference. What could they sell to f2p players? that is worth it. In any case you still havent given an incentive why they should do it

I mentioned how games like LOL involve unlocking characters in the original post and made suggestions for monetization that could get free players to spend at least as much as the current box price to have the basics of pvp, or the entire game unlocked. After that arenanet would be reliant on skins, custom arenas, finishers, and pvp players spending money in pve, as they currently are.

I agree that they probably need to be expanded upon that and would love to hear your suggestions, however if all there talk about esports is to be taken seriously I would hope they have ideas/statistics about what would be necessary in terms of funding. My point was more that this is the only way I see for them to reasonably increase the number of people playing, and having that increased player base would be necessary for esports.

I doubt anet cares about esport enough to destroy and kitten off the majority of their players. And given how the game now or soon gives gold they going to significantly inflate gold on the tp.

So far non of you are giving any decent re ason why they should kitten off the pve side, create hyper inflation, dedicate resources for that f2p pvp. The only justification is cuz esportz and I don’t think at this stage anet really cares that spvp is not at that stage or wont be, hence the limited resources. U need a reason that Benefits them not the few pvpers on average in an mmorpg game.

I like the idea and could see why it seems sensible.

But it really doesn’t address the core issue of sPvP in GW2 as that it is simply and unappealing game to play.

The various MOBAs all have a very intricate and complex meta game, involving various builds, items and heroes. GW2 just doesn’t have that, at least not at the same level. 90% of Runes and Sigils are crap and the rest is used to exploit a very specific element.

The meta game itself isn’t hugely appealing either, with Bunker Guardians being the backbone of practically all teams and all they need to do is run in circles and chain their cooldowns.

Unlike Battlegrounds in WoW or Warzones in SWTOR, sPvP is not something I’d ever just play “for lolz”. It’s not inherently fun. It’s “fun” because of progression/achievement points/rewards.

^I’m really not sure how you can say that. I have much more fun in gw2 than either wow or swtor for many reasons. Just being able to try different classes/builds/gearing at will makes it so much more interesting alone. Not to mention the combat system is 100x better. Only thing I miss is healers.

I have no illusions that this is likely to happen. I don’t think Arenanet has the will to make it happen as I don’t think they have that much faith in spvp. I just see it as the best move they could make to have a serious competitive scene.

I don’t think gem conversion is the problem. I don’t see any reason why they couldn’t implement the rewards in pvp in a way that wouldn’t cause the gold to gems conversion to remain where they want it since they have complete control of this exchange, rewards, and any free 2 play implementation. I also seriously doubt they will increase the pvp rewards so that they compete with champion trains in pve and or fail to introduce pvp gold sincs. I think balancing the game for pvp and messing up pve balance (more) is a bigger issue but that already exists. I actually think most pve players would prefer the game had a healthy pvp population since it increases company resources and strength.

As it stands I see them making pvp into a diversion for when you’re bored with pve. The improved link with pve makes it less of a loss to come play a few matches. This is fine if that is all they want it to be but I don’t see any moves they’re making as likely to generate a large increase in pvp player base or turn it into a serious competitive game.

The reason to switch to free 2 play pvp is to bring in new players who will spend on gems and support the pvp since I don’t think anyone is currently buying the game for pvp and I don’t think the current pvp player base is big enough to support pvp development.

That said if the general opinion is the pvp isn’t good enough to be a standalone game then its not worth going free 2 play. Or if having it for a diversion from pve is all that is desired, then its not worth going free 2 play.

Like I said, I am casual, and it could be there are better alternatives to bringing in new players and making pvp competitive. I just don’t think pve rewards will do it and I thought I would make an argument for the only way I could see it happening if they want it to. I agree that the people with control might not believe in spvp enough to make it happen.

If pvp went f2p then it would most likely attract the crowd that will not pay for the pve side.

It’s a good idea, anything to boost the pvp population at this point would be helpful.

Stand The Wall.6987:

If pvp went f2p then it would most likely attract the crowd that will not pay for the pve side.

This. And why would they spend money? Also what would the they spend money on.

The type it will attract wont spend money on the game and enough to justify it. A lot of people here are looking at it from their prospective not Anet’s. Ultimately, they will only do it if it is worth the money. The best thing they can do is try and attract the players that currently play or bought the game than chase after some nonexistent market.

It seems to me that PvP as been relegated to a check box item.