Guild Wars 2

Eurantien.4632:

Evade spam on ranger needs to be nerfed. Not their specs.

How is ranger evade any better than thief steath?

Eurantien.4632:

Imagine how OP MM necro would be if the necro had access to ranger weapons. This is something i’ve said many times. Evade spam on ranger needs to be nerfed. Not their specs.

A valid argument, Eura, and I basically agree. It’s the damage-to-TTK ratio that is out of balance. Either lowering the damage by reducing the burn procs, or reducing their sustain by lowering the evades, would bring the spec more in line with others.

Wombat.3510:

Unless the spirits are killed, then it is undeniably the most underpowered class in the game and completely useless in tpvp.

Sure, tell you what. You spend your time focusing down some spirits, I’ll spend my time focusing down you. I’m willing to bet whatever spec you’re running is pretty underpowered when you’re in downstate. :P

^ made me crack up hahaha

Wombat.3510:

Eurantien.4632:

Evade spam on ranger needs to be nerfed. Not their specs.

How is ranger evade any better than thief steath?

Can still cap a node and can not be hit by channeled skills. Also, you can still be focused while spamming evades drawing damage off of the rest of your team. You can do none of that in stealth.

If we’re talking about broken evades on any class.. Sorry Eura but S/D thief is just plain broken.. 100 times more evades than spirit rangers

Eurantien.4632:

cymerdown.4103:

Wombat.3510:

In reality it’s is no more OP than steath, necro minions, mesmer phantasms, 100 blades, eng or ele skill spamming.

Right, and that’s why there are basically NO top teams running MM necro, phant mesmer, 100b warrior, or eles. Let’s get real here and face the hard facts, Spirit Ranger is overpowered. It can 1v1 well, it can teamfight well, and provides the team with one of the strongest res utils in the game. [SYNC] ran two of them and did incredibly well, and of course they’re very skilled players, but even not so skilled players can pick it up and top 500 the solo queue leaderboards pretty easily. It. Is. Overpowered. And does much more damage than it should compared to its TTK. So let’s not be diplomatic here and get the spec fixed, mmk?

Imagine how OP MM necro would be if the necro had access to ranger weapons. This is something i’ve said many times. Evade spam on ranger needs to be nerfed. Not their specs.

Sure…that would make MMs better. But, minions dont proc burning and protection for your whole team if they are all in the area.

Wombat.3510:

Eurantien.4632:

Evade spam on ranger needs to be nerfed. Not their specs.

How is ranger evade any better than thief steath?

Because a ranger has a pet that keeps attacking while it evades? Because evade is invulnerability? Because you can keep evading in a row (no revealed)?

infantrydiv.1620:

Because a ranger has a pet that keeps attacking while it evades?

Are you serious? After the recent nerf to pets they might as well give rangers a mosquito! At least it would put out some damage!

If Necro’s never got that crazy amount of buffs making them powerful in terms of loading conditions none stop, the word Spirit Ranger wouldn’t of even hit the forums.

Lets face facts here, Spirit Rangers are in 3rd place in backpoint/roaming. Engineer’s and Warrior’s do it better and there more mobile. Where as Spirit Ranger’s are more viable in team fight’s but at the same time making there Spirit’s more acceptable to damage.

Something allot seem to miss, the Spirit Ranger doesn’t put out burst damage it’s slow condition damage built up over time and it’s one of the slowest in team fights to stack the condition’s. What a Spirit Ranger bring’s is Healing/Protection. They are support bots. With extra damage from burning which doesn’t stack in damage only duration.

Now between the 3 type’s of Spirit Ranger Builds, they all provide different effect’s in team battles, for E.g. Rabid user will use SB which only hit’s 1 target, where as shaman user will use Axe which hits 3 targets. The your Carrion user which needs to rethink why hell he using weakest Spirit Ranger Build.

Also allot of you simply think Spirit Ranger’s are OP and easy mode, well if you leave a class un-checked there easy mode as well. It’s like saying guy’s don’t target the Fresh Air Ele cause he can one shot us, let him freely spam his skills while he destroys our hole team.

Half the reason Spirit Ranger’s are so strong in team fight’s is your own team is stupid. Think about it, most team’s will take the perma evade thief build (then come to forums complain about rangers evading every 6-10 seconds) why the hell don’t you rethink your thief’s build you know the other team is going to have a Spirit Ranger, ask your stupid thief stop playing a build that doesn’t help the team and take a build that does. You could easy take a SB and burst down Spirit’s every single time there up and when the Elite is up you can interrupt the Res rather easy.

So have a good think about it.

If a team runs Spirit Ranger on backpoint rotate someone who can beat him and decap his point, that is win right there.

If a team runs Spirit Ranger frontline, make sure you have effective ways to counter there Spirit’s, if you leave the ranger un-checked your the bloody NOOB.

Now stop your kittening about ranger’s and grow up.

Btw my team does all of the above, we don’t run any necro’s, I run Axe/Dagger-Sword/Horn Spirit Ranger. We only have burning as condition in our team fights and some poison from me for downed bodies and the bleeds I can land here and there and we murder team’s loading up on Necro’s and Spirit Ranger’s.

Feel Free to contact me in game if you want to know more.

So I ran a Spirit build again (just in hotjoin) and I didn’t notice any difference from when I was playing that build from just after launch. This is a build that was laughed at and derided as possibly the weakest ranger build, and now suddenly its OP?

After a break from the game, the main differences I see is that rangers’ best trait in the BM tree has been taken out. And why are trap rangers no good any more? Everyone cried that they were OP a while back. Could it just be that all the other good builds have been nerfed somehow so now spirit looks better? You know there was a time when ranger had a much faster SB basic attack speed, 100% quickness on a pet swap (5 point trait!), pets refreshed their CDs on swap, and you could trait to have pets periodically take all conditions from you? And at that time the community thought rangers were the weakest class for spvp!

In addition, quickly looking through this thread shows some of the people complaining don’t even know what they are talking about. One says spirits have no internal CD to procs, another says the CD should be at least 210 secs for elite spirit- well 210 would be good since it is 240 secs!

There is something seriously wrong with you whiners, seriously.

Sol.4310:

Guys, let’s face facts here. Spirit Ranger’s really not that great, stop complaining to Anet. L2p.

Signed,
Spirit Ranger

Well put.

Its hard to imagine that they’re gonna fix the game at this point

cymerdown.4103:

Sol.4310:

Guys, let’s face facts here. Spirit Ranger’s really not that great, stop complaining to Anet. L2p.

Signed,
Spirit Ranger

Well put.

Truth hurts doesn’t it you ______ ____. I’ll let you fill in the blank’s.

Your prob one of them morons basing there fact’s off Solo Que, them arena’s will never be balance ever.

Now team que, may not be balanced but all the QQ about spirit ranger’s cracks me up, simple minded kittentards have no idea.

Sol.4310:

cymerdown.4103:

Sol.4310:

Guys, let’s face facts here. Spirit Ranger’s really not that great, stop complaining to Anet. L2p.

Signed,
Spirit Ranger

Well put.

Truth hurts doesn’t it you ______ ____. I’ll let you fill in the blank’s.

Your prob one of them morons basing there fact’s off Solo Que, them arena’s will never be balance ever.

Now team que, may not be balanced but all the QQ about spirit ranger’s cracks me up, simple minded kittentards have no idea.

Actually, Mini Ken is a good guardian and plays tpvp quite often. I never see you around though.

Sol.4310:

Truth hurts doesn’t it you nice guy. I’ll let you fill in the blank’s.

Your prob one of them morons basing there fact’s off Solo Que, them arena’s will never be balance ever.

Now team que, may not be balanced but all the QQ about spirit ranger’s cracks me up, simple minded kittentards have no idea.

So, this time your argument is that you agree that it’s definitely not balanced for solo arena, and it may not be balanced for team arena, but people are complaining too much about how it’s not balanced. I see.

Aeroxe.8140:

Actually, Mini Ken is a good guardian and plays tpvp quite often. I never see you around though.

Aw, thanks Aeroxe! I played against Sol once just a night or two ago in team arena, he just doesn’t remember I guess.

This is really funny xD.
I play a spirit ranger so i have the most knowledge of the subject at hand.
So trust me when i say spirit ranger is a fair balanced spec that require tons of skill and isnt spammy at all.

cymerdown.4103:

Sol.4310:

Truth hurts doesn’t it you nice guy. I’ll let you fill in the blank’s.

Your prob one of them morons basing there fact’s off Solo Que, them arena’s will never be balance ever.

Now team que, may not be balanced but all the QQ about spirit ranger’s cracks me up, simple minded kittentards have no idea.

So, this time your argument is that you agree that it’s definitely not balanced for solo arena, and it may not be balanced for team arena, but people are complaining too much about how it’s not balanced. I see.

Aeroxe.8140:

Actually, Mini Ken is a good guardian and plays tpvp quite often. I never see you around though.

Aw, thanks Aeroxe! I played against Sol once just a night or two ago in team arena, he just doesn’t remember I guess.

Unlike you at least I post counter’s to the argument, on how you can improve your team’s game play. So it’s less stressful when you face teams running these so called Cheese build which turn’s out any build that beats someone is Cheese.

Sol.4310:

cymerdown.4103:

Sol.4310:

Truth hurts doesn’t it you nice guy. I’ll let you fill in the blank’s.

Your prob one of them morons basing there fact’s off Solo Que, them arena’s will never be balance ever.

Now team que, may not be balanced but all the QQ about spirit ranger’s cracks me up, simple minded kittentards have no idea.

So, this time your argument is that you agree that it’s definitely not balanced for solo arena, and it may not be balanced for team arena, but people are complaining too much about how it’s not balanced. I see.

Aeroxe.8140:

Actually, Mini Ken is a good guardian and plays tpvp quite often. I never see you around though.

Aw, thanks Aeroxe! I played against Sol once just a night or two ago in team arena, he just doesn’t remember I guess.

Unlike you at least I post counter’s to the argument, on how you can improve your team’s game play. So it’s less stressful when you face teams running these so called Cheese build which turn’s out any build that beats someone is Cheese.

Sol, it seems you don’t really understand the point of the whining against spirit rangers.

Personally i don’t feel spirit rangers are THAT OP ( maybe the only OP thing is the ress elite), but they’re ridicolously broken.

You can LITERALLY spam your skill and win against a competent opponent playing another class.

S/D thieves are on the same road, but they can be countered by learning their animations: spirit rangers can’t be countered due to random, automatic, procs putting BURNING on your opponents ( best damging condi) and prot on you ( best defensive condi) without you really doing anything.

You can’t counter a proc, it will just happen you’ll burn your opponent with a 40% uptime with a single, unavoidable, proc.

And if you are equipped with forge runes, between dodges and procs, you have nearly 100% prot uptime on you.

The only “counter” is to kill your spirits, which have good health and need TEAM FOCUSING ( or 2vs1) to be killed fast, putting your team into a disadvantage.

in a 1vs1 situation, killing a spirit ranger WHILE killing his spirits ( hoping he didn’t cast them 30 secs before, in that case you’ll have him able to recast them as soon as you destroy them) is exhausting, requires too much time for the skill the ranger requires to kill you ( dumb rotation of skills even a brain dead monkey could pull off) and is ALWAYS in ranger favor unless you’re against a CC war or a necro.

They also have RIDICOLOUSLY strong team support and , most annoying fact, they clutter the screen with AI.

It’s a cheese build, not ridicolously OP, but cheesy as kitten, and dumb down the whole game along with necro condi spam.

Deal with it.

Sol.4310:

Unlike you at least I post counter’s to the argument, on how you can improve your team’s game play. So it’s less stressful when you face teams running these so called Cheese build which turn’s out any build that beats someone is Cheese.

I never said that there are zero ways in the game to counter Spirit Ranger. Obviously there are ways to counterplay against the spec, and you named a few of them. But when a single spec is powerful enough to require teams to run a small number of precise builds to counter it, that’s what you called a warped metagame, where the entire game begins to revolve around being able to deal with this one overpowered thing. In games, when this happens, it’s not considered a particularly healthy thing, and should be fixed in order to have a more healthy and diverse meta.

The main complaint about the spec that I think you’re missing is the skill-to-power ratio. A spec that gives good results while not requiring much skill to get those good results is a major let down for competitive play. Competitive players want to feel that the game rewards their higher skill with better results, otherwise, why continue to practice and get better when others with less experience and skill can out-perform you with this other spec anyway? It’s fine to have these passive, high AI specs, they just shouldn’t be able to compete with higher skill cap builds in the competitive scene. That’s the major thing turning competitive players away from the game at an alarming rate, and that’s the reason that this issue is so important for a lot of people.

Mrbig.8019:

Sol.4310:

cymerdown.4103:

Sol.4310:

Truth hurts doesn’t it you nice guy. I’ll let you fill in the blank’s.

Your prob one of them morons basing there fact’s off Solo Que, them arena’s will never be balance ever.

Now team que, may not be balanced but all the QQ about spirit ranger’s cracks me up, simple minded kittentards have no idea.

So, this time your argument is that you agree that it’s definitely not balanced for solo arena, and it may not be balanced for team arena, but people are complaining too much about how it’s not balanced. I see.

Aeroxe.8140:

Actually, Mini Ken is a good guardian and plays tpvp quite often. I never see you around though.

Aw, thanks Aeroxe! I played against Sol once just a night or two ago in team arena, he just doesn’t remember I guess.

Unlike you at least I post counter’s to the argument, on how you can improve your team’s game play. So it’s less stressful when you face teams running these so called Cheese build which turn’s out any build that beats someone is Cheese.

Sol, it seems you don’t really understand the point of the whining against spirit rangers.

Personally i don’t feel spirit rangers are THAT OP ( maybe the only OP thing is the ress elite), but they’re ridicolously broken.

You can LITERALLY spam your skill and win against a competent opponent playing another class.

S/D thieves are on the same road, but they can be countered by learning their animations: spirit rangers can’t be countered due to random, automatic, procs putting BURNING on your opponents ( best damging condi) and prot on you ( best defensive condi) without you really doing anything.

You can’t counter a proc, it will just happen you’ll burn your opponent with a 40% uptime with a single, unavoidable, proc.

And if you are equipped with forge runes, between dodges and procs, you have nearly 100% prot uptime on you.

The only “counter” is to kill your spirits, which have good health and need TEAM FOCUSING ( or 2vs1) to be killed fast, putting your team into a disadvantage.

in a 1vs1 situation, killing a spirit ranger WHILE killing his spirits ( hoping he didn’t cast them 30 secs before, in that case you’ll have him able to recast them as soon as you destroy them) is exhausting, requires too much time for the skill the ranger requires to kill you ( dumb rotation of skills even a brain dead monkey could pull off) and is ALWAYS in ranger favor unless you’re against a CC war or a necro.

They also have RIDICOLOUSLY strong team support and , most annoying fact, they clutter the screen with AI.

It’s a cheese build, not ridicolously OP, but cheesy as kitten, and dumb down the whole game along with necro condi spam.

Deal with it.

Yet Warrior’s and Engi are beating Spirit Rangers 1v1, they must be running a cheese build and are ridiculously OP. Better start new thread, there are classes beating Spirit Ranger quickly nerf them.

Spirit Elite yep it is OP, never said it wasn’t and I’ve never really said thakittens hard to play Spirit Ranger or anything to do with Spirit ranger itself. What I have said is ways to deal with it.

Every team has same problem, every single team in Team Arena runs at least 1 Spirit Ranger. Why the hell haven’t they figured out how to counter it rather then come to forums and QQ.

Sol.4310:

Mrbig.8019:

Sol.4310:

cymerdown.4103:

Sol.4310:

Truth hurts doesn’t it you nice guy. I’ll let you fill in the blank’s.

Your prob one of them morons basing there fact’s off Solo Que, them arena’s will never be balance ever.

Now team que, may not be balanced but all the QQ about spirit ranger’s cracks me up, simple minded kittentards have no idea.

So, this time your argument is that you agree that it’s definitely not balanced for solo arena, and it may not be balanced for team arena, but people are complaining too much about how it’s not balanced. I see.

Aeroxe.8140:

Actually, Mini Ken is a good guardian and plays tpvp quite often. I never see you around though.

Aw, thanks Aeroxe! I played against Sol once just a night or two ago in team arena, he just doesn’t remember I guess.

Unlike you at least I post counter’s to the argument, on how you can improve your team’s game play. So it’s less stressful when you face teams running these so called Cheese build which turn’s out any build that beats someone is Cheese.

Sol, it seems you don’t really understand the point of the whining against spirit rangers.

Personally i don’t feel spirit rangers are THAT OP ( maybe the only OP thing is the ress elite), but they’re ridicolously broken.

You can LITERALLY spam your skill and win against a competent opponent playing another class.

S/D thieves are on the same road, but they can be countered by learning their animations: spirit rangers can’t be countered due to random, automatic, procs putting BURNING on your opponents ( best damging condi) and prot on you ( best defensive condi) without you really doing anything.

You can’t counter a proc, it will just happen you’ll burn your opponent with a 40% uptime with a single, unavoidable, proc.

And if you are equipped with forge runes, between dodges and procs, you have nearly 100% prot uptime on you.

The only “counter” is to kill your spirits, which have good health and need TEAM FOCUSING ( or 2vs1) to be killed fast, putting your team into a disadvantage.

in a 1vs1 situation, killing a spirit ranger WHILE killing his spirits ( hoping he didn’t cast them 30 secs before, in that case you’ll have him able to recast them as soon as you destroy them) is exhausting, requires too much time for the skill the ranger requires to kill you ( dumb rotation of skills even a brain dead monkey could pull off) and is ALWAYS in ranger favor unless you’re against a CC war or a necro.

They also have RIDICOLOUSLY strong team support and , most annoying fact, they clutter the screen with AI.

It’s a cheese build, not ridicolously OP, but cheesy as kitten, and dumb down the whole game along with necro condi spam.

Deal with it.

Yet Warrior’s and Engi are beating Spirit Rangers 1v1, they must be running a cheese build and are ridiculously OP. Better start new thread, there are classes beating Spirit Ranger quickly nerf them.

Spirit Elite yep it is OP, never said it wasn’t and I’ve never really said thakittens hard to play Spirit Ranger or anything to do with Spirit ranger itself. What I have said is ways to deal with it.

Every team has same problem, every single team in Team Arena runs at least 1 Spirit Ranger. Why the hell haven’t they figured out how to counter it rather then come to forums and QQ.

You know warriors are beating spirit rangers because they’re in the same OPwagon.

Engies in order to beat them needed to completely change their build to a more dumbed spammy build with nades , rampager ammo and automated response ( another cheese), basically a dumbed down version of the high skill ceiling engi build we usually used to run: still the engi is capable to do so because it’s the most versatile, balanced proff out there and has the options to do so, and still it’s about 50%-50%.

What about other classes ?

Do you think is satisfying when a pro -insert class here- is defeated by someone spamming autos with shortbow ?

The answer is simple, and it really doesn’t matter if you CAN counter comp him.

cymerdown.4103:

Sol.4310:

Unlike you at least I post counter’s to the argument, on how you can improve your team’s game play. So it’s less stressful when you face teams running these so called Cheese build which turn’s out any build that beats someone is Cheese.

I never said that there are zero ways in the game to counter Spirit Ranger. Obviously there are ways to counterplay against the spec, and you named a few of them. But when a single spec is powerful enough to require teams to run a small number of precise builds to counter it, that’s what you called a warped metagame, where the entire game begins to revolve around being able to deal with this one overpowered thing. In games, when this happens, it’s not considered a particularly healthy thing, and should be fixed in order to have a more healthy and diverse meta.

The main complaint about the spec that I think you’re missing is the skill-to-power ratio. A spec that gives good results while not requiring much skill to get those good results is a major let down for competitive play. Competitive players want to feel that the game rewards their higher skill with better results, otherwise, why continue to practice and get better when others with less experience and skill can out-perform you with this other spec anyway? It’s fine to have these passive, high AI specs, they just shouldn’t be able to compete with higher skill cap builds in the competitive scene. That’s the major thing turning competitive players away from the game at an alarming rate, and that’s the reason that this issue is so important for a lot of people.

I agree with you, I hate the state of what this stupid meta is in. I gave up trying to figured out ways to complain about spec’s being OP.

I also hate the amount of Ai you see and the clutter, most of that is from blast finishers and effect’s coming off skills, they should just give us option to remove effects and leave actions.

The Ai problem will never leave, there no point giving a class skill if they are going to be useless. A better targeting system would be good, but by making it only target’s will effect the mesmer class when comes clones, going to be far to easy for us to follow the mesmer.

Your some what correct about what you said about a “warped meta” and it’s health. But this is how balance is found within almost every single online game, they design a build which counter players other builds.

Now put the Warrior in the Spirit Ranger’s spot, as they beating them atm. Do you nerf the Warrior or do you buff the Spirit Ranger. So now if you look at it from that point of view which class do you nerf and which class do you buff, cause if you nerf the Spirit Ranger wouldn’t that mean Warrior is now OP and they will have to nerf the Warrior then making it not as effective in a result other classes beating it meaning they repeat the same crap over and over, going by your idea of a better way to balance in fact is more unhealthy then adding in counter’s rather then trying to make every single build on par with each other.

Mrbig.8019:

Sol.4310:

Mrbig.8019:

Sol.4310:

cymerdown.4103:

Sol.4310:

Truth hurts doesn’t it you nice guy. I’ll let you fill in the blank’s.

Your prob one of them morons basing there fact’s off Solo Que, them arena’s will never be balance ever.

Now team que, may not be balanced but all the QQ about spirit ranger’s cracks me up, simple minded kittentards have no idea.

So, this time your argument is that you agree that it’s definitely not balanced for solo arena, and it may not be balanced for team arena, but people are complaining too much about how it’s not balanced. I see.

Aeroxe.8140:

Actually, Mini Ken is a good guardian and plays tpvp quite often. I never see you around though.

Aw, thanks Aeroxe! I played against Sol once just a night or two ago in team arena, he just doesn’t remember I guess.

Unlike you at least I post counter’s to the argument, on how you can improve your team’s game play. So it’s less stressful when you face teams running these so called Cheese build which turn’s out any build that beats someone is Cheese.

Sol, it seems you don’t really understand the point of the whining against spirit rangers.

Personally i don’t feel spirit rangers are THAT OP ( maybe the only OP thing is the ress elite), but they’re ridicolously broken.

You can LITERALLY spam your skill and win against a competent opponent playing another class.

S/D thieves are on the same road, but they can be countered by learning their animations: spirit rangers can’t be countered due to random, automatic, procs putting BURNING on your opponents ( best damging condi) and prot on you ( best defensive condi) without you really doing anything.

You can’t counter a proc, it will just happen you’ll burn your opponent with a 40% uptime with a single, unavoidable, proc.

And if you are equipped with forge runes, between dodges and procs, you have nearly 100% prot uptime on you.

The only “counter” is to kill your spirits, which have good health and need TEAM FOCUSING ( or 2vs1) to be killed fast, putting your team into a disadvantage.

in a 1vs1 situation, killing a spirit ranger WHILE killing his spirits ( hoping he didn’t cast them 30 secs before, in that case you’ll have him able to recast them as soon as you destroy them) is exhausting, requires too much time for the skill the ranger requires to kill you ( dumb rotation of skills even a brain dead monkey could pull off) and is ALWAYS in ranger favor unless you’re against a CC war or a necro.

They also have RIDICOLOUSLY strong team support and , most annoying fact, they clutter the screen with AI.

It’s a cheese build, not ridicolously OP, but cheesy as kitten, and dumb down the whole game along with necro condi spam.

Deal with it.

Yet Warrior’s and Engi are beating Spirit Rangers 1v1, they must be running a cheese build and are ridiculously OP. Better start new thread, there are classes beating Spirit Ranger quickly nerf them.

Spirit Elite yep it is OP, never said it wasn’t and I’ve never really said thakittens hard to play Spirit Ranger or anything to do with Spirit ranger itself. What I have said is ways to deal with it.

Every team has same problem, every single team in Team Arena runs at least 1 Spirit Ranger. Why the hell haven’t they figured out how to counter it rather then come to forums and QQ.

You know warriors are beating spirit rangers because they’re in the same OPwagon.

Engies in order to beat them needed to completely change their build to a more dumbed spammy build with nades , rampager ammo and automated response ( another cheese), basically a dumbed down version of the high skill ceiling engi build we usually used to run: still the engi is capable to do so because it’s the most versatile, balanced proff out there and has the options to do so, and still it’s about 50%-50%.

What about other classes ?

Do you think is satisfying when a pro -insert class here- is defeated by someone spamming autos with shortbow ?

The answer is simple, and it really doesn’t matter if you CAN counter comp him.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQRBHRxG2IRVZdXlTFodgYVQQtHZy8Yy9oUk6UHs6zD-TwAg2CrIaS1krJTTymsNN8Y5xehZAA

The build I use and I don’t play back point, try spamming with that and dealing much damage in team fight’s. That 150-300 damage from my weapons + burning god so much damage it must be OP.

SB is spam friendly, but that weapon is designed that way not much you can do about it. The Auto attack from almost every single class is spam friendly and has same amount as skill as a ranger.

Sol.4310:

The Ai problem will never leave, there no point giving a class skill if they are going to be useless. A better targeting system would be good, but by making it only target’s will effect the mesmer class when comes clones, going to be far to easy for us to follow the mesmer.

Your some what correct about what you said about a “warped meta” and it’s health. But this is how balance is found within almost every single online game, they design a build which counter players other builds.

Now put the Warrior in the Spirit Ranger’s spot, as they beating them atm. Do you nerf the Warrior or do you buff the Spirit Ranger. So now if you look at it from that point of view which class do you nerf and which class do you buff, cause if you nerf the Spirit Ranger wouldn’t that mean Warrior is now OP and they will have to nerf the Warrior then making it not as effective in a result other classes beating it meaning they repeat the same crap over and over, going by your idea of a better way to balance in fact is more unhealthy then adding in counter’s rather then trying to make every single build on par with each other.

About AI, they can still have it in the game, but just not be very viable at the top level. There’s still reason to have it in the game even if it’s not playable at the top end. Players that are more casual or newer to the game need builds to play that aren’t super complicated, but perform well enough at the entry level to get them into the game. There’s a lot of game design theory on the subject, but basically, you want to reward the new player more when they first start playing, because that gives them more interest in the game by making them feel a bit powerful from the get-go. At some later point, they may find out that this first build they learned won’t get them into the top echelons, but at least you attracted them to learn more and get far enough to learn that because they had an easier to play build to learn the game on. You just wean them off of it later and let them find out about the more competitive but harder to play specs that will deepen their understanding of the game at a time where their skill has caught up to the point where they can actually learn how to play it.

Concerning counter builds, there’s some more game design theory to bring in here. There are what are called “hard counters” and “soft counters”. Hard counter means we’re playing a game of rock-paper-scissors, where if your team has a Spirit Ranger (rock), and I’ve got a CC Warrior (paper), my paper is going to beat your rock 80%+ of the time (not going for an exact percentage here, just using this as an example). So, all I need to do is make sure my paper fights your rock a lot during the match, and your team will be at a severe disadvantage. This type of counter is also what we call “Build Wars”, where most of the match is decided before we even start playing based on what comp each team is running. This powerful of a level of countering is not fun to play, and not fun to watch.

What is more ideal is the idea of building “soft counters”. So, ideally, if you’re running a Spirit Ranger, and I’ve got a CC Warrior, maybe the chances of winning a duel are closer to 60%/40%. This way, sure, I’ve got your counter on my team, but it only gives my team a slight edge against you — there’s still plenty of room for skill and playstyle to make up for the natural disadvantage between our builds. In order to have a healthy game, you really want to minimize the amount of hard counters in the game and make it more about soft counters.

So lastly, the idea here about nerfing and buffing isn’t about going around in a circle nerfing things into oblivion till each class is the exact same and all are complete trash. The idea is about removing the outliers. If we think of all the builds being put on a line graph where the y-axis is “Power Level”, right now that graph is very spiky on the high side where it comes to Spirit Ranger, Necro, and S/D Thief, and very spiky on the low end when it comes to unplayed specs like Gadget Engi, Trap Thief, and Physical skill Warrior. We want to make that graph less spiky and more like a straight line (as much as humanly possible). Bring down the uber strong stuff, bring up the super lame weak stuff. Kapeesh?

Why hate on spirit Rangers so much? they are beatable they are not putting out massive damage to a whole team at once, so why hate them? The answer is people hate them because they take no skill or effort to play. This means people will call for nerfs more frequently than on other OP classes and specs.

If they increased the skill floor and cap for Spirit Ranger you would see far less of them probably and I think the nerf calls would disappear completely. Generally speaking players don’t mind being outplayed and they just try to improve…when they outplay someone and lose they get angry.

spirit rangers(and necro) are pushing the AI, pet, condi spam meta that everyone hates and has caused most player/teams to “take a break” until this brainless spammy meta is taken care..

the biggest problem is not how easy it is to play, its the impact that it has on the games, by having a spirit ranger on a fight, its an automatic 33% damage reduction, 480 heal per sec from elite, at least 2 full condi clears, 2 resses and a team wide 500-700 DPS through burning(all passive), and the most effective way to deal with this is by spamming AoE(brainless), and by not running 1 or 2 puts teams at a disadvantage, forcing teams to participate on this skill-less meta.

We are not complaining about there 1v1 capabilities, but the fact that they bring so much to team fights with little effort but spamming weapon skills from far. Honestly, the way to maybe bring down spirit rangers so no ones uses it, but new players would be maybe reducing the passive buffs chance buy 50 percent making them 20 percent and maybe lower the icd by 2-3 seconds to compensate because honestly ai spec should not exist in top level play its insane anet let it exist for past 2 months.

Advent Leader.1083:

Just a notice – what are spirit rangers built for? Are they, in comparison to other classes, built around their weapon sets providing as much evade as they can, all while having random on hit boon procs from every attack?

I think a way to balance spirit ranger is to have the on hit effects have a global cooldown, let’s say around 2-3s for each proc per player – but that would defeat the purpose of spirit rangers. Another fix could be reducing the duration of the on-hit effects, as the ranger might be able to boon stack easily.

To counter the change, improve the ranger’s longbow so that it has better power scaling options. Currently, shortbow > longbow since you have ok conditions with it. What if longbow was boosted back to good power, but only if – and only if – the range was >600 or more? Realigning traits to improve the ranger’s power options at a good distance might make rangers excellent ranged DPS but once you do get close, a ranger is effectively gutted.

I don’t have any other ideas to balance out stuff, since this does not take into account pet stuffs, so yeah.

They already have a 10second cooldown. You will only proc the burn once every 10 seconds. So now that the ‘nerf’ is 3 times stronger than what you suggested, what would we buff now?

cymerdown.4103:

About AI, they can still have it in the game, but just not be very viable at the top level. There’s still reason to have it in the game even if it’s not playable at the top end. Players that are more casual or newer to the game need builds to play that aren’t super complicated, but perform well enough at the entry level to get them into the game. There’s a lot of game design theory on the subject, but basically, you want to reward the new player more when they first start playing, because that gives them more interest in the game by making them feel a bit powerful from the get-go. At some later point, they may find out that this first build they learned won’t get them into the top echelons, but at least you attracted them to learn more and get far enough to learn that because they had an easier to play build to learn the game on. You just wean them off of it later and let them find out about the more competitive but harder to play specs that will deepen their understanding of the game at a time where their skill has caught up to the point where they can actually learn how to play it.

Concerning counter builds, there’s some more game design theory to bring in here. There are what are called “hard counters” and “soft counters”. Hard counter means we’re playing a game of rock-paper-scissors, where if your team has a Spirit Ranger (rock), and I’ve got a CC Warrior (paper), my paper is going to beat your rock 80%+ of the time (not going for an exact percentage here, just using this as an example). So, all I need to do is make sure my paper fights your rock a lot during the match, and your team will be at a severe disadvantage. This type of counter is also what we call “Build Wars”, where most of the match is decided before we even start playing based on what comp each team is running. This powerful of a level of countering is not fun to play, and not fun to watch.

What is more ideal is the idea of building “soft counters”. So, ideally, if you’re running a Spirit Ranger, and I’ve got a CC Warrior, maybe the chances of winning a duel are closer to 60%/40%. This way, sure, I’ve got your counter on my team, but it only gives my team a slight edge against you — there’s still plenty of room for skill and playstyle to make up for the natural disadvantage between our builds. In order to have a healthy game, you really want to minimize the amount of hard counters in the game and make it more about soft counters.

So lastly, the idea here about nerfing and buffing isn’t about going around in a circle nerfing things into oblivion till each class is the exact same and all are complete trash. The idea is about removing the outliers. If we think of all the builds being put on a line graph where the y-axis is “Power Level”, right now that graph is very spiky on the high side where it comes to Spirit Ranger, Necro, and S/D Thief, and very spiky on the low end when it comes to unplayed specs like Gadget Engi, Trap Thief, and Physical skill Warrior. We want to make that graph less spiky and more like a straight line (as much as humanly possible). Bring down the uber strong stuff, bring up the super lame weak stuff. Kapeesh?

Well Guild Wars 1 was all about build war’s and hard counters and look how good that was, allot of problems we are faced with atm is due to node’s we always fighting on small area which is size of almost every bloody skill.

If they gave us better game mode, you would find be hole different meta once again. Build’s that are spam friendly (every single class) would require more skill as your target isn’t just sitting on a point most of the game.

You can complain about Spirit Ranger’s as much as you want, but there not the reason the meta is kitten, there Elite shouldn’t be able to Res so many times but that’s about it.

I can’t believe your kittening about Spirit Ranger’s, and wasting time writing up these big reports on how the game should be when they doing same style of balance as gw1 and it worked.

But who care’s anymore PvP isn’t going to change for while. Think time find something new to play.

Grouch and Chap were laughing at their own game just now while shoutcasting the PAX tournament. They called the middle point a “petting zoo.”

just a example
pax finals 2. match and 3. match and you see what happens when you run 2 of this “op spirit rangers”

and why you cry like babys beacuse spirits, but the old shatter mes npcs was ok?
it was same npcs spam on point btw.
well just keep whining like all time

If they did 2 things

A. Made zerker stance immune to the blind.
B. fixed the targeting system to prioritise players

Spirit rangers would be a lot less viable.

Phaeton.9582:

If they did 2 things

A. Made zerker stance immune to the blind.
B. fixed the targeting system to prioritise players

Spirit rangers would be a lot less viable.

With the sheer amount of AI in matches now I think point B should certainly be looked at at the very least.

what was it..? like 2 months ago when i kept yelling warrior is broken and the flavour build to play was invinci warrior, and ppl kept telling me to l2p ^^

NB: Everyone could see that Grouch and Chap were cynical as kitten during the whole event.. i think their general idea was.. let’s just make the best of it. As for the Dev team.. they looked tired and dissapointed in their own game..

They can be useful to the other team sometime >.>

Can’t believe you people still think Spirit Rangers are strong, Its like SPvP is perma stuck behind World vs World in Build Battles by a good 3 or 4 month’s.

Xsorus.2507:

Can’t believe you people still think Spirit Rangers are strong, Its like SPvP is perma stuck behind World vs World in Build Battles by a good 3 or 4 month’s.

This isnt the world v world forums. Please go away.

Xsorus.2507:

Can’t believe you people still think Spirit Rangers are strong, Its like SPvP is perma stuck behind World vs World in Build Battles by a good 3 or 4 month’s.

Haha look at this guy with his pve skills and food buffs trying to discuss balance. ha ha ha oh wow

the petting zoo is not op guys. it has hard counters. moreover bad players running the petting zoo loses. and only bad players lose to the petting zoo.

signed,

petting zoo zookeeper

alcopaul.2156:

the petting zoo is not op guys. it has hard counters. moreover bad players running the petting zoo loses. and only bad players lose to the petting zoo.

signed,

petting zoo zookeeper

MATH….aka the guild full of bad players who run cheese bars to make up for their bad play? You guys have had a reputation for being clueless since 2009.

Errant Venture.9371:

alcopaul.2156:

the petting zoo is not op guys. it has hard counters. moreover bad players running the petting zoo loses. and only bad players lose to the petting zoo.

signed,

petting zoo zookeeper

MATH….aka the guild full of bad players who run cheese bars to make up for their bad play? You guys have had a reputation for being clueless since 2009.

were since 2005 noob. probably you were just a noob then.

alcopaul.2156:

Errant Venture.9371:

alcopaul.2156:

the petting zoo is not op guys. it has hard counters. moreover bad players running the petting zoo loses. and only bad players lose to the petting zoo.

signed,

petting zoo zookeeper

MATH….aka the guild full of bad players who run cheese bars to make up for their bad play? You guys have had a reputation for being clueless since 2009.

were since 2005 noob. probably you were just a noob then.

Nah it was just fun to watch you kids load into ID3 over and over after losing on UW.

http://www.guildwars.com/community/guildweek/gotw-2006-10-17-yourmathteacher.php

we played American Districts man. ID districts for the Euros that we farmed before.

Lol @ anyone complaining about spirit rangers. They are insanely easy to counter. In fact they are usually my first target.

style.6173:

Lol @ anyone complaining about spirit rangers. They are insanely easy to counter. In fact they are usually my first target.

spirit rangers(and necro) push condi meta over the top, condi meta is killing PvP :] its not the build itself but rather the impact that it has on the game…

and spirit rangers first target? interesting, why not burn all cds a perma evade 3k+ perma protection bunkers :/

google.3709:

style.6173:

Lol @ anyone complaining about spirit rangers. They are insanely easy to counter. In fact they are usually my first target.

spirit rangers(and necro) push condi meta over the top, condi meta is killing PvP :] its not the build itself but rather the impact that it has on the game…

and spirit rangers first target? interesting, why not burn all cds a perma evade 3k+ perma protection bunkers :/

Some of us Spirit Rangers, run around with AK’s lol insta killing fools.

Lordryux.9785:

what makes spirit rangers OP is definitly the elite being able to self res urself… no class should be able to do that besides warrior 3 downed state. And aswell having burst and condi damage AND more tankyness than a kitten bunker necro well.. thats just utterly rediculous lol. no class should have that all in one. every other class pretty much sacrifices.. in that category to go condi and be tanky or to go burst and be glassy.. but not all 3. thats why people say spirit rangers are OP.

They may lack stun breakers and stability but it doesnt matter they are kitten hard to take down.. i mean even on my mesmer. i have to throw out. 2 iduelist and 1 izerker just to take them down.. plus my cooldowns.. imagine how long that takes -_-

Now when u get a teammatchup. against 5 or 4 spirit rangers on one team. well.. i say GL to you sir. you better try harder than you ever. have before.. cuz that like facing the devil himself. keep ur distance for sure.. or your dead as hell

I think this brings up a valid comparison. As I consider a thief who has fully traited into poisons vs a ranger fully traited into spirits – it is clear to me that the ranger is floating with much more value (aka bang for the buck). poisons would be 3-6 applications (with the +1) vs continuous shared applications (another fully traited tree for the thief to gain shared effects) for 1 min or until the spirit is killed — uh yea i’ll take my chances with ‘b’ thank you.

I know that I am talking about different conditions (+buffs) which may skew a comparison, yet I feel that the effective benefits are balanced among them (if not even again in the rangers favor).

Spirit rangers ahhhhhhhhhhh