Guild Wars 2

downed state will not be removed.
stop asking for it to be removed.

say, in a 8 vs 8 public game,
you are in a 1 vs 1 scenario with someone,
and you downed him / her
but his / her team mate came and revived him / her, then downed and finished you off. or downed you and finished off, rallying him / her.

so you feel that this is not fair.
this is fair.

this is the downed reviving rallying system working as intended.
deal with it.

those 2 are different.

this one is asking those people to stop asking for the impossible.

We’re just complaining about it until the developers decide to balance it, remove it or another MMO is released without it.

while downed state allows for some pretty clutch team plays in higher level play, it totally eliminates those clutch 1v2 -1v3 plays in lower level play. The intent of it’s design is to make positioning more important, but positioning in gw2 is really only important for a select few classes to begin with (much less so in casual play), and some classes downed state (ele) just makes positioning even less important by saying “hey if you die you can just invuln and run back behind your team, its k dude”.

It’s not in 1v1 scenarios that downed state is annoying, it’s in 1v2’s when you are completely destroying 2 people, but will never be able to get a stomp off because they just cc you and revive when you down one.

They obviously aren’t going to take out downed state from the game, and in a way I’m happy that it’s here. I posted my thread to start up a philosophical discussion between the pros and cons of having downed state, why we have it, and what would happen to the game if it were removed.
You don’t seem to possess the information needed to participate in this discussion, so I have supplied you with some of the basics. Cheers!

They just need to fix the rally system. 1 rally per person. 1 death shouldn’t give an entired downed team a revive.

Downed state wouldn’t be so bad if you couldn’t continue to do decent damage or teleport etc. You should essentially be rendered unconscious except for ability to self heal….if buddies can come and help you fine but all the other abilities really make it stupid imo.

Calae.1738:

We’re just complaining about it until the developers decide to balance it, remove it or another MMO is released without it.

further balance it better is good.

i dun want it removed though.

Custom Arenas with an option to disable the downstate. Watch the popularity of those servers rocket into orbit while the downstate tools play alone in the corner.

Hammerheart.1426:

Custom Arenas with an option to disable the downstate. Watch the popularity of those servers rocket into orbit while the downstate tools play alone in the corner.

sure rofl watch the “thief is op”, “burst is op” threads coming np. just because some people dont know how to think in advance and setup downstate strategy beforehand doesnt mean it should be removed.

ahuba.6430:

Hammerheart.1426:

Custom Arenas with an option to disable the downstate. Watch the popularity of those servers rocket into orbit while the downstate tools play alone in the corner.

sure rofl watch the “thief is op”, “burst is op” threads coming np. just because some people dont know how to think in advance and setup downstate strategy beforehand doesnt mean it should be removed.

Actually, I agree with you.

The current balance spectrum has two extremes, burst (far left) and bunker (far right). As it stands both of those extremes need to be brought closer to the middle. As long as you have those two extremes, the idea of balance is a pipedream.

No more 2 second or less fights, no more holding off 3 bad guys by yourself until help arrives.

Then give us the option to disable it in custom arenas.

Hammerheart.1426:

Custom Arenas with an option to disable the downstate. Watch the popularity of those servers rocket into orbit while the downstate tools play alone in the corner.

not gonna happen.

anet will not let custom arenas have this option.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

i dun want it removed though.

And you had to make a whole thread about that?

Downstate is awesome. Makes the battles more interesting and teamwork more rewarding.

Med.6150:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

i dun want it removed though.

And you had to make a whole thread about that?

well, there are plenty of people making new topics asking for it to be removed etc.

its time i join in.

TO OPPOSE THEM! RWAR!

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Hammerheart.1426:

Custom Arenas with an option to disable the downstate. Watch the popularity of those servers rocket into orbit while the downstate tools play alone in the corner.

not gonna happen.

anet will not let custom arenas have this option.

I didn’t realize you spoke for Anet.

If they truly feel that way, doesn’t that prove that they have serious doubts about the mechanic?

I understand that they haven’t made the best decisions regarding spvp, but come on Anet, you’re acting like Microsoft.

Hammerheart.1426:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Hammerheart.1426:

Custom Arenas with an option to disable the downstate. Watch the popularity of those servers rocket into orbit while the downstate tools play alone in the corner.

not gonna happen.

anet will not let custom arenas have this option.

I didn’t realize you spoke for Anet.

If they truly feel that way, doesn’t that prove that they have serious doubts about the mechanic?

I understand that they haven’t made the best decisions regarding spvp, but come on Anet, you’re acting like Microsoft.

hmm wait i dun speak for anet. let me rephrase that:
“i think anet will not let custom arenas have this option.”
there u go. its my opinion now!

“If they truly feel that way, doesn’t that prove that they have serious doubts about the mechanic?”
hmmm what doubts are you talking about? why is that so?
anyway, there are several traits involving the downed state, and consumables too (for WvW and PvE) so removing the downed state will not happen. at least this is what i think. and i prefer it to remain as it is.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Downed

Related traits
Revenge of the Fallen – 50% increased damage
Strength of the Fallen – lose health 33% slower
Sweet Revenge – 100% chance to rally after a kill while Vengeanced
Always Prepared – drop a kit and bandages, 25% increased damage
Instinctual Bond – your pet gains quickness
Circle of Life – create a Healing Spring
Back Fighting – 50% increased damage
Concealed Defeat – throw up a Smoke Screen
Lava Tomb – create a Lava Font
Retaliatory Demise – gain 5 seconds of Retaliation
Death’s Embrace – 50% increased damage
Fear of Death – apply fear to enemies

Related consumabkitten
wl of Fire Salsa – For 30 minutes, grants +100% health and +20% damage while downed. (Level 80 Required)
Bowl of Mango Salsa – For 30 minutes, grants +80% health and +14% damage while downed. (Level 70 Required)
Bowl of Avocado Salsa – For 30 minutes, grants +50% health and +6% damage while downed. (Level 40 Required)

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Hammerheart.1426:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Hammerheart.1426:

Custom Arenas with an option to disable the downstate. Watch the popularity of those servers rocket into orbit while the downstate tools play alone in the corner.

not gonna happen.

anet will not let custom arenas have this option.

I didn’t realize you spoke for Anet.

If they truly feel that way, doesn’t that prove that they have serious doubts about the mechanic?

I understand that they haven’t made the best decisions regarding spvp, but come on Anet, you’re acting like Microsoft.

hmm wait i dun speak for anet. let me rephrase that:
“i think anet will not let custom arenas have this option.”
there u go. its my opinion now!

“If they truly feel that way, doesn’t that prove that they have serious doubts about the mechanic?”
hmmm what doubts are you talking about? why is that so?
anyway, there are several traits involving the downed state, and consumables too (for WvW and PvE) so removing the downed state will not happen. at least this is what i think. and i prefer it to remain as it is.

People have been asking for it to be an option since custom arenas were announced, because the community is divided on the issue of the downed state. Some like, some abhor it ( I’m with the latter crowd).

If Anet did not allow custom arenas to have the option to disable it, it is because they are scared that it might gain popularity. If they have that fear, it is because they doubt the mechanic. If the creators of the game doubt their own mechanic, it strenghthens the argument against the downstate.

But since they are silent on kitten near every issue, we may never know.

“If Anet did not allow custom arenas to have the option to disable it, it is because they are scared that it might gain popularity. If they have that fear, it is because they doubt the mechanic. If the creators of the game doubt their own mechanic, it strenghthens the argument against the downstate.”

what if, anet did not allow custom arenas to have the option to disable it, it is not because they are scared it might gain popularity, but instead, they firmly believes it is the way it is meant to be played?

i.e.
“downed state is part of the game. deal with it.”

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

“If Anet did not allow custom arenas to have the option to disable it, it is because they are scared that it might gain popularity. If they have that fear, it is because they doubt the mechanic. If the creators of the game doubt their own mechanic, it strenghthens the argument against the downstate.”

what if, anet did not allow custom arenas to have the option to disable it, it is not because they are scared it might gain popularity, but instead, they firmly believes it is the way it is meant to be played?

i.e.
“downed state is part of the game. deal with it.”

Ah yes, the stubborn “Microsoft approach.” This attitude reinforces the idea that Anet doesn’t care about what the players want at all, instead they will just continue to leave this game in a state of mediocrity.

The game was touted as an esports game, but in its current state, and Anet’s trend of slow changes, by the time it is ever esports ready, the game will have been long forgotten. The downstate, as well as radical class imbalances are the two major factors keeping this game from achieving what it set out to be.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

They just need to fix the rally system. 1 rally per person. 1 death shouldn’t give an entired downed team a revive.

Why not?

If your Team can’t Stomp sm1 before they stomp you while you have a clear advantage, you should be punished for it.

The Downed state is an extremely good Mechanic and removing it would be quite disastrous for structured PvP.

The Downed state is an extremely good Mechanic and removing it would be quite disastrous for structured PvP.

You can’t say that for certain. Just like I can’t (or at least shouldn’t) say that it is 100% guaranteed to be better off without the downstate.

But if we are paying for Custom Arenas, shouldn’t we at least have the option?

i want downed state removed because it isnt actually fun,

im not saying that cause of some 1v1. i mean all situations, ever. team fight 5v5.

downed state is the theoredical replacement for stuff like healing. it lets teams make an effort to defend a player who gets focus fired. in theory this adds fun and depth of strategy. also, it adds watchable plays as the audience can anticipate the stomp or interupt on the edge of their seat.

all that being said for it on paper convinced me to give it an honest and thorough play test, afterwhich i concluded that the mechanic just wasnt fun.

lots of the community did the same, and offered anet constructive feedback about how to repair, replace, or remove it.

anet made the decision that they would maintain and even strengthen downed states.

most of the pvp community anet had at launch has subsequently quit the game over a myraid of issues, though downed state is likely a component of many of their decisions.

much of the remaining community doesnt seem to mind the downed state and perhaps even have learned to enjoy it.

in conclusion, asking to remove downed state is more of a reminder to the decision making team that their judgement can sometimes be flawed, and that they should appreciate well articulated player feedback when its offered. sort of a reminder that we told them so, therfore perhaps they should listen next time.

if i had to give a specific hope for myself and i think for others: a desired result of our requests to remove downed state, I would say:

A new type of PvP challange, without downed states, and other gameplay revisions (likelya complete redetailing of weapon and utility skills, as well as traits and some changes to animations) essentially a mod.

I don’t think we dislike the engine or beautiful scenery offered by guild wars 2, its the gameplay and character attribute system that’s deeply flawed and unfun to the majority og gw2’s initial pvp community.

ryston.7640:

we want downed state to be removed because it isnt as fun as the devs think it is.

perhaps you are just the minority group here.
the ones who are having fun is playing the game it is meant to be played.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

ryston.7640:

we want downed state to be removed because it isnt as fun as the devs think it is.

perhaps you are just the minority group here.
the ones who are having fun is playing the game it is meant to be played.

sorry, posted on accident then edited. silly android touch screen

ryston.7640:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

ryston.7640:

we want downed state to be removed because it isnt as fun as the devs think it is.

perhaps you are just the minority group here.
the ones who are having fun is playing the game it is meant to be played.

sorry, posted on accident then edited. silly android touch screen

hmmm all right.

well, i think probably it will be like this:
“much of the remaining community doesnt seem to mind the downed state and perhaps even have learned to enjoy it.”

downed state will not be removed, maybe some balance changes may occur. maybe.

The downed state does not bother me all that much.

I just wish that it was equal across all of the classes. The amount of health should be the same and the skills should be same across the board in my opinion.

chefdiablo.6791:

The downed state does not bother me all that much.

I just wish that it was equal across all of the classes. The amount of health should be the same and the skills should be same across the board in my opinion.

well yeah, some professions’ downed skills are not as useful as the others. hope they will balance that somehow.

“The amount of health should be the same”
^ eh? not all professions have same downed health?

Remove downstate.

but this would make burst builds just eat through people in like 2 seconds!

Bring burst down to compensate.

but then the bunkers would never die!

Bring bunker down to compensate.

No more 2 second or less fights, no more 1vX unkillables. More emphasis on team fighting and not team fighting/rezzing/stomping/rallying.

Both extremes on the spectrum (burst-bunker) are at ridiculous levels currently, and it is one of the biggest things holding this game back.

The other is the downstate.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

well, i think probably it will be like this:
“much of the remaining community doesnt seem to mind the downed state and perhaps even have learned to enjoy it.”

downed state will not be removed, maybe some balance changes may occur. maybe.

someone recently explained, and i paraphrase:

’Most current gw2 PvP players are also PvE players, and dable in pvp, excepting a small few who, because of the small population, have risen to god like status.

anet will continue to use these players in state of the game analysis, and these players will continue to support the gameplay more or less as is, because they are ontop and enjoy things that way. Meanwhile most gamers interested in pvp will play other games.’

this seems true to me, and frames nicely my argument in support of petitioning anet for meaningful change to pvp.

their current engine is nice, they have the infastructure to make a good pvp game, which would result in revenue.

they could maintain the current not good pvp game and earn little revenue from it. that would be a waste of potential. (the engine, graphics, etc are the major investment of game development. The work that remains to turn gw2 pvp into something popular amongst gamers represents a very minimal investment of development resources.)

so, we ask, essentially, for a new game built on all that. hopefully someone in anet has the courage to admit / call out the current pvp for what it is (popular with too small of a community to sell expansions) and they opt to promote new ideas or talent which will push development of new pvp content.

The downstate is fine but unbalanced. The fact that one stomp can rezz up a whole team is either a bit of a luck through these unbalanced downstate abilities some classes have. Especially vapor-form and invis-ports.

I would agree with a option to remove DS in Custom Arenas. It will be great to those that want DS and to the ones that dont want that.
Custom Arenas cost gems, so if the disable of DS starts to be very popular they dont need to change the regular PvP game and they can earn Money from it.
Its not a bad deal for ANet to add the option to disable DS in costum arenas. They will profit from it and will make the player base happy.

PowerBottom.5796:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

They just need to fix the rally system. 1 rally per person. 1 death shouldn’t give an entired downed team a revive.

Why not?

If your Team can’t Stomp sm1 before they stomp you while you have a clear advantage, you should be punished for it.

The Downed state is an extremely good Mechanic and removing it would be quite disastrous for structured PvP.

By that logic if I stomp 1 out of 3 downed guys, all 3 should be dead as soon as I succeed with my stomp… I would consider that also a sort of a Rally… a Rally to kill…

It would be better if you had 2 skills
1. The heal
2. Some sort of stomp interupt on a cd.
Like how the necro can fear and the thief can stealth to avoid the stomp

downed state is great for chasing players away from this game’s pvp

If, in the alternative, you’d rather encourage participation, the downed state should be removed from instanced pvp.

Its not intuitive and its not fun in casual pvp.

if you were so right about how downed state is “OK” then the pvp side of this game wouldn’t be tanking so hard would it?

Kugkug.8795:

downed state is great for chasing players away from this game’s pvp

i would say its good for chasing those who cannot comes to terms with this game’s core game play feature.

If, in the alternative, you’d rather encourage participation, the downed state should be removed from instanced pvp.

from what i have gathered, those who seek the removal of downed state:
- wants to 1 vs 2, 1 vs 3, 1 vs 4, come out alive and brag about it
- complains when they did not finish their job properly

Its not intuitive and its not fun in casual pvp.

for you, and few others i guess. it promotes team work and its fun to work together in casual pvp.

if you were so right about how downed state is “OK” then the pvp side of this game wouldn’t be tanking so hard would it?

downed state is working as it is intended to be.

your so called claim of “pvp side of this game tanking” is due to other reasons, mainly with ncsoft realizing PvE have much better monetization options. the very successful RNG boxes is a very good example.

i think ncsoft realized that the PvP part of guild wars 2 cannot be monetized effectively at this stage while PvE part of guild wars 2 is still ripe for harvesting.

we will see what happens in the future.

at the moment, i play guild wars 2’s sPvP as how i would play team fortress 2.
go in, get some kills, get some action, blow up ppl with the cannon. get out, continue with PvE, WvW, then enough of guild wars 2 for the day.

time to play other games.

next day, continue. gw2, then stop. then other games.

As long as the downstate exists, this game will never become an esport.

Mark my words.

Hammerheart.1426:

As long as the downstate exists, this game will never become an esport.

Mark my words.

well, that is your opinion.

what i see is, it is not downed state that is holding back guild wars 2 from becoming an esport. it was never the problem with downed state.

for me, what is holding back guild wars 2 from becoming esport is, nc soft.

yes, nc soft.

downed state isn’t going anywhere. the entire game is balanced around it. it’s a fundamental core of the game play, not something you turn on/off. removing it would be like taking 10 steps back.

the game is not balanced, around downed state or otherwise.

we are not wanting to win 1v4 unless the 4 drool. we just dont think its fun. its team oriented sure, on paper its great, in practice it just isnt. we’d rather have the team mechanics gw1 had, you know, fun ones.

i get that some people like downed state and find it fun. those people are a minority, and gw2 pvp is turning into a small community instead of a thriving esport because anet isnt getting this.

ryston.7640:

the game is not balanced, around downed state or otherwise.

we are not wanting to win 1v4 unless the 4 drool. we just dont think its fun. its team oriented sure, on paper its great, in practice it just isnt. we’d rather have the team mechanics gw1 had, you know, fun ones.

i get that some people like downed state and find it fun. those people are a minority, and gw2 pvp is turning into a small community instead of a thriving esport because anet isnt getting this.

guild wars 1 is still online though it is automated now. there are people still playing the original guild wars 1.

well, u think those people who like downed state are minority.
i think other wise though.
for me, the ones who dislike downed state are the minority.

“gw2 pvp is turning into a small community instead of a thriving esport because anet isnt getting this.”
^ again, it is not due to down state that gw2 pvp is turning into a small community.
it is due to ncsoft ordering anet to focus on PvE RNG boxes because at the moment, the PvE RNG boxes have the best profit margin for them.

if you want to find something to blame, blame it on the chronic PvE skin gamblers who kept on buying the RNG boxes from the gem store.

Do what I do.
Enter downed state, type “/s killllllllllll meeeeeeee” & someone obliges.
Then I can get back to playing the game & not fecking about with crappy downed state mess

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

well, u think those people who like downed state are minority.
i think other wise though.
for me, the ones who dislike downed state are the minority.

It’s more like the ppl accept it as it is, because . . . what can we do else?

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

well, u think those people who like downed state are minority.
i think other wise though.
for me, the ones who dislike downed state are the minority.

It’s more like the ppl accept it as it is, because . . . what can we do else?

Ambush them during a state of the game

Hammerheart.1426:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

well, u think those people who like downed state are minority.
i think other wise though.
for me, the ones who dislike downed state are the minority.

It’s more like the ppl accept it as it is, because . . . what can we do else?

Ambush them during a state of the game

They would answer the same thing, they did everytime: “We definitely look into this”.
You can watch every SOTG, note down every topic they said this sentence and write a pretty long list on what changes we can expect in the near future.

kirito.4138:

Downstate is awesome. Makes the battles more interesting and teamwork more rewarding.

Downstate is terrible. Makes the battle frustrating for skilled players by forcing them to watch unskilled noobs rubbing each other’s genitals.

Calae.1738:

kirito.4138:

Downstate is awesome. Makes the battles more interesting and teamwork more rewarding.

Downstate is terrible. Makes the battle frustrating for skilled players by forcing them to watch unskilled noobs rubbing each other’s genitals.

Find me 5 skilled players against downed state please.

With skilled players I mean someone in the top 150 of the ladder.

Calae.1738:

kirito.4138:

Downstate is awesome. Makes the battles more interesting and teamwork more rewarding.

Downstate is terrible. Makes the battle frustrating for skilled players by forcing them to watch unskilled noobs rubbing each other’s genitals.

actually, skilled players co operate and play together as a team.

unskilled players go solo rambo and wonders why they cannot perform well.

I like the downed state system. It’s what differentiates Guild Wars 2 from most other MMOs.

Lose downed state and lose the whole essence of what makes Guild Wars 2 unique.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Calae.1738:

kirito.4138:

Downstate is awesome. Makes the battles more interesting and teamwork more rewarding.

Downstate is terrible. Makes the battle frustrating for skilled players by forcing them to watch unskilled noobs rubbing each other’s genitals.

actually, skilled players co operate and play together as a team.

unskilled players go solo rambo and wonders why they cannot perform well.

I like how you generalize teamwork in such a one dimensional angle.

What if players had tools to prevent their allies from taking damage? That would certainly require more skill than to “go down” on someone and rub them.

Calae.1738:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Calae.1738:

kirito.4138:

Downstate is awesome. Makes the battles more interesting and teamwork more rewarding.

Downstate is terrible. Makes the battle frustrating for skilled players by forcing them to watch unskilled noobs rubbing each other’s genitals.

actually, skilled players co operate and play together as a team.

unskilled players go solo rambo and wonders why they cannot perform well.

I like how you generalize teamwork in such a one dimensional angle.

What if players had tools to prevent their allies from taking damage? That would certainly require more skill than to “go down” on someone and rub them.

What if we had…

But no, we don’t have so many tools to prevent allies from taking damage. What we have is downed state, and it’s the only mechanic adding depth to the game, so we better keep it.