Guild Wars 2

Everyone is running celestial because with that you get almost the crit dmg as zerker, the crit chance is covered by sigils of inteligence ( and the celestial crit chance is not bad too) the only thing you really lack is power. But the power is not a problem becuase of how easy is to stack might blasting fire fields+sigils+runes of strengh/hoelbrak. So with celestial you get a very decent survivablity and almost the dmg of a zerker.

The blast fire field BASE duration is too long. 3 stacks with 20s base is too much compared with the other blast finish combo effect. A build can get 75% might duration ( 30 traits+ 45 strengh) will get 3 stacks of might for more than 30s.

My idea to change it: reduce the base duration from 20 to 10-15 seconds or the number of stacks from 3 to 2. The side effect is that it would also make a little harder for pvers to stack might. Another idea would be reduce the power you get per stack of might from 35 to maybe 25-30.

Comparing the blast on fire with any other field the discrepancy is obvious. Most of them have 3s duration, poison field is 5s and lightning 10s swiftness, but Fire has 20 seconds.

FIRE= 20 SECONDS might
lightning- 10s swiftness
light – 3s retal

that’s because 3 stacks of might by themselves mean a lot less than swiftness and retaliation. might is just a “tweak” to your numbers if you want, while the other 2 add additional effects to you character.

the problem is in how easy it is to stack it in pvp nowadays with runes of strenght and how much those runes benefit from it (hoelbrak isn’t that bad).

i wouldn’t suggest a nerf that impacts pve or wvw honestly (and gvg), might stacking is fine there, it might be (no pun intended) better to just give them more counters by improving boon-stripping.

…or maybe just halve the base duration in pvp only.

I don’t see a lot of sigils of intel + celestial. Maybe it is only in the extreme upper tier or something. Usually I see sig of intel on axe swapping warriors.

I think the best solution to the problem would be to reduce the base duration of fire field blast and might from battle sigil to 15 seconds. This way it would nerf build with no might/boon duration by only 5 seconds, but for instance, it would nerf the +75% might duration dd ele by 9 seconds from both sources.

I don;‘t think celestial gear by itself is OP. I don’t even think Strength or Pirate runes by themselves are OP.

The problem, like some have mentioned, happens when you have multiple elementalists and hambow warriors in the same team fight. All laying down fire fields, all of them blasting each other’s fire fields. With 2-3 people give EACH OTHER more might, combined with the massive duration bonus from the runes and the passive might procs from runes and sigils, means the whole team can get to 25 stacks very easily. THAT is definitely OP!

I don’t know how to fix it tbh. I definitely think the fire field on longbow needs a nerf (hambows can keep fire fields up 100% duration, and have 2 blast finishers on <10" recharges on each weapon set!). Maybe the duration bonuses on might-granting runes should also be shaved. But I suspect the long term solution might be to completely rework the combo system.

Sometimes I play a 0-0-30-10-30 celestial hambow, and you can get about 20 stacks alone in the optimal scenario when you blast the bow F1 with bow #3 and hammer #F1. Of course that with more players get even easier, but it is still too easy to stack by yourself.

5 (signet)+ 6 (2 blasts)+ 9 ( sigil of battle swaping 3 times)+ 2 (1 stack swaping weapon swaping 2 times)

*could reach 25 if using sigil of strengh

Nerf the war class won’t solve the problem, since other classes can do it too.

I think only 2 classes are might be a little bit op with celestial might stack and thats War and ele. Other classes are fine so do we address the two class or change might and celest amy just becuase of 2 profs? really though they are not game breakingly op.

adozu.6398:

that’s because 3 stacks of might by themselves mean a lot less than swiftness and retaliation. might is just a “tweak” to your numbers if you want, while the other 2 add additional effects to you character.

the problem is in how easy it is to stack it in pvp nowadays with runes of strenght and how much those runes benefit from it (hoelbrak isn’t that bad).

i wouldn’t suggest a nerf that impacts pve or wvw honestly (and gvg), might stacking is fine there, it might be (no pun intended) better to just give them more counters by improving boon-stripping.

…or maybe just halve the base duration in pvp only.

3secs of retal is not even close to the dmg boost you get with 3 stacks of might for 20s.

20/3 = lasts 6.6 times longer than retal.

Might is such a strong boon becuase it not only gives 35 power per stack but also 35 condi dmg. Again synergizing with celstial builds. 105 power and 105 condi a total of 210 stats for 20s by blasting 1 field. This doenst look to be op in builds other than celestial, because if the build is not making use of the condi AND power they only get “usefull” 105 stats.

vincecontix.1264:

I think only 2 classes are might be a little bit op with celestial might stack and thats War and ele. Other classes are fine so do we address the two class or change might and celest amy just becuase of 2 profs? really though they are not game breakingly op.

Don’t forget Engi! So many blast finishers (bomb, turrets, thumper turret belt skill + active skill) and access to several fire fields. What’s funny is that HGH got nerfed because stacking might was considered OP back in the day.

vincecontix.1264:

I think only 2 classes are might be a little bit op with celestial might stack and thats War and ele. Other classes are fine so do we address the two class or change might and celest amy just becuase of 2 profs? really though they are not game breakingly op.

Well 2 classes in a game that has only 8 is 25% of the classes.

Next class balance update engi flame thrower is getting a blast finisher on a 4.75s cd (if traited), they also have fire fields and most engi builds have points in the boon duration traitline. This has potential to create +1 op might stacking build.

Kharr.5746:

vincecontix.1264:

I think only 2 classes are might be a little bit op with celestial might stack and thats War and ele. Other classes are fine so do we address the two class or change might and celest amy just becuase of 2 profs? really though they are not game breakingly op.

Don’t forget Engi! So many blast finishers (bomb, turrets, thumper turret belt skill + active skill) and access to several fire fields. What’s funny is that HGH got nerfed because stacking might was considered OP back in the day.

Haha good point. I was typing that but you were faster.

easiest fix that wont screw over the PVEers would probably be to just balance the celestial amulet, (lower the stat points to similar levels as other stats, currently it gives you far more stat points than any other amulet)

It is ok for celestial to have more total stats because it doenst focus in anything. The problem is the might stacking giving too much offensive stats, making so that the amulet shouldnt focus hard in offensive/defensive does actually focus too hard in offensive (close to a zerker) and keep very good defensive stats.

IMO the problem is on the blast fire field imbalanced compared with any other field.

xDudisx.5914:

Nerf the war class won’t solve the problem, since other classes can do it too.

No class can do it as well as hambow specifically: higher uptime on fire field than even elementalists, 2 blast finishers per weapon set, faster weapon set swapping than other professions. Plus the effects are multiplied by the duration increase of the runes, meaning they gain MORE BENEFIT from Strength runes than any other profession.

there is nothing wrong with celestial might stacking, it is working as intended.

increase sustain, survival, viability of boon stripping professions / builds so people actually play boon stripping more often so that might stacking is less potent.

or increase boon stripping viability.

stop complaining if you are not bothered to play boon removal professions.

manveruppd.7601:

xDudisx.5914:

Nerf the war class won’t solve the problem, since other classes can do it too.

No class can do it as well as hambow specifically: higher uptime on fire field than even elementalists, 2 blast finishers per weapon set, faster weapon set swapping than other professions. Plus the effects are multiplied by the duration increase of the runes, meaning they gain MORE BENEFIT from Strength runes than any other profession.

Actually the hambow has 20% less boon duration than ele and only 1 blast per weapon set bow 3 and hammer F1

manveruppd.7601:

xDudisx.5914:

Nerf the war class won’t solve the problem, since other classes can do it too.

No class can do it as well as hambow specifically: higher uptime on fire field than even elementalists, 2 blast finishers per weapon set, faster weapon set swapping than other professions. Plus the effects are multiplied by the duration increase of the runes, meaning they gain MORE BENEFIT from Strength runes than any other profession.

that is working as intended, because hambow:
- cannot summon illusions
- cannot enter stealth by themselves
- cannot death shroud
- cannot summon minions
- cannot prevent their boons from being removed

seriously, stop complaining because you refuse to play professions that remove boons easily.

Taking the time to Blast in fire fields can be risky for any profession and staying together to gain all the benefit can also be risky.

Most of the might actually comes from the on-swap sigil because people don’t like to waste time blasting. So nerf that and you’ll see a huge change game wide.

limit max amount of might stacks in pvp (only), problem solved

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

manveruppd.7601:

xDudisx.5914:

Nerf the war class won’t solve the problem, since other classes can do it too.

No class can do it as well as hambow specifically: higher uptime on fire field than even elementalists, 2 blast finishers per weapon set, faster weapon set swapping than other professions. Plus the effects are multiplied by the duration increase of the runes, meaning they gain MORE BENEFIT from Strength runes than any other profession.

that is working as intended, because hambow:
- cannot summon illusions
- cannot enter stealth by themselves
- cannot death shroud
- cannot summon minions
- cannot prevent their boons from being removed

seriously, stop complaining because you refuse to play professions that remove boons easily.

I main a Necro! :-D And not the minion summoning kind either! :-)

I already said that WE NEED COMBO REBUILD
-more combo fields+blast so every profession would have few fields and blasts
- when you execute blast for example you get might for only 7 sec on yourself but for 15 sec on teammates

This system would require much more teamwork then just solo placing fire field+2 blasts+leap and yoohoo tones of might , no more solo running in water field !
But to let this system work some classes like necro must get more fields+more finishers for example healing well would be water field.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

manveruppd.7601:

xDudisx.5914:

Nerf the war class won’t solve the problem, since other classes can do it too.

No class can do it as well as hambow specifically: higher uptime on fire field than even elementalists, 2 blast finishers per weapon set, faster weapon set swapping than other professions. Plus the effects are multiplied by the duration increase of the runes, meaning they gain MORE BENEFIT from Strength runes than any other profession.

that is working as intended, because hambow:
- cannot summon illusions
- cannot enter stealth by themselves
- cannot death shroud
- cannot summon minions
- cannot prevent their boons from being removed

seriously, stop complaining because you refuse to play professions that remove boons easily.

Of course warior doent have that but it doesnt mean something is balanced or op just becuase and apple is not an orange. I am not complaining about war itself. I said the problem is the celestial might stacking in general. Btw war doesn’t have the stuff you cited but if has stuff that make it up for it, like high hp, heavy armor, adrenaline, etc..

I also play all classes. This is one of the reasons I see how inbalanced some things are.

Summarizing: war is ok the problem is the might stacking making celestial have too much dmg

Cynz.9437:

limit max amount of might stacks in pvp (only), problem solved

I would even go that far to say, limit every boon and condition to 15 Stacks (in PvP only).

ducks away

xDudisx.5914:

Summarizing: war is ok the problem is the might stacking making celestial have too much dmg

Well, you say that, but if you had 3 celestial rangers or necros wearing Strength Runes they wouldn’t be getting to 25 stacks within seconds… It’s only when you have warriors, engis, and eles that you can do that, with warriors being by far the fastest at might-stacking.

manveruppd.7601:

xDudisx.5914:

Summarizing: war is ok the problem is the might stacking making celestial have too much dmg

Well, you say that, but if you had 3 celestial rangers or necros wearing Strength Runes they wouldn’t be getting to 25 stacks within seconds… It’s only when you have warriors, engis, and eles that you can do that, with warriors being by far the fastest at might-stacking.

“ONLY” war, engi and ele. ONLY 3 out of 8 classes this is almost 50% of the classes in game. And you are thinking in them alone. I class can give the fire, other the blast when more people are fighting. The problem is the might stacking celestial with fire field blasts.

Sure in theory you can combine from different classes, but in practice the 3 classes that have the most fire fields also have the most blast finishers! :p

Like others have said, a hambow warrior can get to 20 stacks on their own. Engis and eles can maintain 10-15 easily. But when you combine 3 of those classes in any combination on a single point, the whole team can get to 25 stacks in SECONDS. That’s where the problem is, in team fights. In 1v1s even warriors are not that bad, because the damage of celestial gear without the might is pretty mediocre.

GOSU.9574:

I don’t see a lot of sigils of intel + celestial. Maybe it is only in the extreme upper tier or something. Usually I see sig of intel on axe swapping warriors.

i use intel for my ranger GS…. Swoop – hilt bash – maul….
If all 3 lands they do upwards of 10-13k total damage depending on crits.

please also remember that might stacking professions cannot do anything if you take away their boons.

the hard counter is there, just that people refuse to use them, and then they come here and cry about it.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

please also remember that might stacking professions cannot do anything if you take away their boons.

the hard counter is there, just that people refuse to use them, and then they come here and cry about it.

You point out a valid retort. However boon corrutpion/ripping is worthless when some profession builds habitually restack over and over up to 7 boons. Ele’s and engineers tend to be on the fore front of this, but are not exclusive. Would you agree if a profession is running 7 boons and through sheer genius such arcane thievery and boon removal on shatter and using mesmer sword with a clone I remove all 7 boons that this is a worth while practice when 5 boons will be present again in 6 seconds and all 7 are back no longer than 12 seconds later? As e legit continuation of what you have said that boon removal is a key counter here, how much of a counter is it when all that investment to remove is nullified every 20 seconds?

I would nerf Sigil of Battle (3 stacks of might for 20sec on weapon swap) by reducing number of stacks or duration and leave combo fields alone. Combo fields usually require some effort to pull off, so there should be a bit more reward there.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

please also remember that might stacking professions cannot do anything if you take away their boons.

the hard counter is there, just that people refuse to use them, and then they come here and cry about it.

You point out a valid retort. However boon corrutpion/ripping is worthless when some profession builds habitually restack over and over up to 7 boons. Ele’s and engineers tend to be on the fore front of this, but are not exclusive. Would you agree if a profession is running 7 boons and through sheer genius such arcane thievery and boon removal on shatter and using mesmer sword with a clone I remove all 7 boons that this is a worth while practice when 5 boons will be present again in 6 seconds and all 7 are back no longer than 12 seconds later? As e legit continuation of what you have said that boon removal is a key counter here, how much of a counter is it when all that investment to remove is nullified every 20 seconds?

that’s why i was saying again and again, improve boon removal options!

the current boon removal options are very …
lacking and inadequate !!!

boons removal options should be as easy applied as might stacking, if not better!

i suggested for a new condition to make boons expire faster but people does not seem to want to accept that.

xDudisx.5914:

Kharr.5746:

vincecontix.1264:

I think only 2 classes are might be a little bit op with celestial might stack and thats War and ele. Other classes are fine so do we address the two class or change might and celest amy just becuase of 2 profs? really though they are not game breakingly op.

Don’t forget Engi! So many blast finishers (bomb, turrets, thumper turret belt skill + active skill) and access to several fire fields. What’s funny is that HGH got nerfed because stacking might was considered OP back in the day.

Haha good point. I was typing that but you were faster.

Thing with celestial engi though is they are much easier to shut down compared to war or ele.

They could make it so that you cant blast your own combo fields … problem solved and this support more teamplay and coordination.

Emapudapus.1307:

They could make it so that you cant blast your own combo fields … problem solved and this support more teamplay and coordination.

That is a terribad idea and would destroy so many build. Wars and eles are the prob and not by much also most other classes are going to be a bit better after step 9th so wait and see how the meta shifts after patch day.

Yeah boons restack so quickly that it is no longer a valid tactical option to remove them before you’re about to deliver your burst. What I’ve come to terms with is that you simply have to burst through them, and then corrupt boons when they’re low to provide that extra little bit of burst needed to bring them down. So I’m not removing selectively and for tactical reasons, just for extra damage.

I thought combo fields were getting DR, as in no stacking beyond the initial boost, just refreshing.

easy solution;
You cannot blast your own fields in PvP

The end!

Want to stack any form of boons in PvP? Bring a friend.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

please also remember that might stacking professions cannot do anything if you take away their boons.

the hard counter is there, just that people refuse to use them, and then they come here and cry about it.

You point out a valid retort. However boon corrutpion/ripping is worthless when some profession builds habitually restack over and over up to 7 boons. Ele’s and engineers tend to be on the fore front of this, but are not exclusive. Would you agree if a profession is running 7 boons and through sheer genius such arcane thievery and boon removal on shatter and using mesmer sword with a clone I remove all 7 boons that this is a worth while practice when 5 boons will be present again in 6 seconds and all 7 are back no longer than 12 seconds later? As e legit continuation of what you have said that boon removal is a key counter here, how much of a counter is it when all that investment to remove is nullified every 20 seconds?

that’s why i was saying again and again, improve boon removal options!

the current boon removal options are very …
lacking and inadequate !!!

boons removal options should be as easy applied as might stacking, if not better!

i suggested for a new condition to make boons expire faster but people does not seem to want to accept that.

Sorry if I missed important info in your first post. I agree. After playing out a necromancer in PvP I was massively underwhelmed what boon corruption did and how little it swayed a 1 vs 1 situations and 2 vs 2 situations.

Prysin.8542:

easy solution;
You cannot blast your own fields in PvP

The end!

Want to stack any form of boons in PvP? Bring a friend.

And instantly you remove boon-based professions from the game. Everyone will roll warriors b/c without boons, their inherent stat advantage is overwhelming.

Being unable to finish your own fields DESTROYS:
Engineers who now can’t utilize healing turret
Thieves (D/P) who now can’t stealth at all (I’m assuming you are proposing that NO finshers work on your own fields)
Eles (all) except fresh-air, putting them back in the basement tier (below ranger) as they were prior to the March patch.
Many guardian builds that require self-combos to get cleanses and retal.

You “simple fix” would literally break the game.

What is one thing all these celestial might-stacking builds have in common: Strength runes and battle sigils!! Strength could still use a very slight nerf (its still slightly stronger than hoelbrak, and would be fine without the extra 20% might duration), and Battle is by far OP in these specs (it accounts for about 10.5 stacks of might alone). Nerf battle and/or strength and might-stacking still works, you just don’t get to 25 stacks without trying.

Also, for people who will point out that nerfing battle will just force people to use strength sigils either instead or in addition, I want to point out that this is a GREAT thing. Strength sigil require making build-sacrifices to get enough crit, requires actually hitting the opponent to proc (thus is affected by weakness, blocks, blinds, etc.), and takes longer to build-up. If you take both it means you are removing the dps/sustain that is gotten by the replaced sigil.

Battle does too much for how consistent it is.

GOSU.9574:

I don’t see a lot of sigils of intel + celestial. Maybe it is only in the extreme upper tier or something. Usually I see sig of intel on axe swapping warriors.

Every single war in decent ladder runs intelligence + battle on melee set with energy + doom on lb…both celestial and soldier.

A fix not hurting PvE is important. As a PvE player i have had enough stupid nerf due to conquest PvP already. So please don’t make me write that the best solution would be to scrap tPvP. :-)

Prysin.8542:

easy solution;
You cannot blast your own fields in PvP

The end!

Want to stack any form of boons in PvP? Bring a friend.

-1000

terminatorkobold.6031:

A fix not hurting PvE is important. As a PvE player i have had enough stupid nerf due to conquest PvP already. So please don’t make me write that the best solution would be to scrap tPvP. :-)

I have zerker characters with pve meta stuff to speed run dungeons. I actually find that nerfing/fixing might stacking on spvp would have a great side effect on pve becuase right now is too easy to stack 25 stacks of might.

In the other hand the suggestion to reduce the base duration to 15 wouldn’t hurt zerker dungeons because if you are running the right builds the great majority of the bosses die in less than 10s.

As for non-zerker groups this really wont change much because they normally dont even stack might.

thats why I suggested more fields+finishers on all chars and self blasting will affect in much shorter duration ,self boons<mate boons