Guild Wars 2

could you finaly improve the survive mechanic of power ranger builds
instead of nerfing it by make the skill point blank shot easy predictable,
so every player can easy dodge it?

after this “change” only hunters shot is left as survive based skill on longbow, so you can’t use point blank shot anymore to keep enemeys away from you, because everybody will just dodge it.
actually a power ranger is allready just death if enemys can get close to him and that’s not so hard to do.
if this animation is completly easy to dodge then power ranger will get really fast into hard troubles.

i have no idea how you can keep an eye on nerfing power ranger allready again when it’s not even a meta build,
but the kings of zerker builds (mesmer, thief with much better dmg/survive mechanics) are completly fine?!

a stealth shatter from mesmer or steal from thievs is aswell not predictable, can you give this things also some easy to predict blue animations please?

You do know sword/dagger has a TON of evades right?

“But, but I’m Ranger! I should be using bows! If I want to swing a sword, I should be playing Warrior, Guardian, or Thief!”

predictable is not the word, because it is not predictable
it’s only counterable, if you know the difference.

Yeah, the ranger can only play for 12 sec withour recive direct damage.
Then can swap in sword/dagger and dodge all your skills.
You can remove all your and allies conditions with a signet (your pet isn’t happy about this)
With the LB, you can go in hide. (and with the trait, reset your 100% critical rante +5 vulnerability bonus at the first skill)
You can set up traits that gives you endurance regeneration, protect, regen, vigor, stability, stealth, damage reduction by 50% (under 25%hp), remove conditions (by timing, dodging, or skill use)

Yeah, Rangers sucks in defence…

Count dodges, then time your pointblank shot.

Silv.9207:

Yeah, the ranger can only play for 12 sec withour recive direct damage.
Then can swap in sword/dagger and dodge all your skills.
You can remove all your and allies conditions with a signet (your pet isn’t happy about this)
With the LB, you can go in hide. (and with the trait, reset your 100% critical rante +5 vulnerability bonus at the first skill)
You can set up traits that gives you endurance regeneration, protect, regen, vigor, stability, stealth, damage reduction by 50% (under 25%hp), remove conditions (by timing, dodging, or skill use)

Yeah, Rangers sucks in defence…

that’s a nice classic forum boy answer.
but in practice mesmer and thief still damage and survive way better then a power ranger.
but the longbow knock need an animation. sounds logic

power ranger is still a freekill profession in the eu meta.
mesmer and thief not

You can trait 2/0/6/6/0 with zerk amulet and still have good damage.

Survivability is where it should be for rangers.

Just give me Trapper Runes to spvp, I will be glad.

^.^

Rym.1469:

Just give me Trapper Runes to spvp, I will be glad.

^.^

^ This but conquest negate them and other specs need other pvp mode, sconquest and tconquest cripples and poisons.

Both thief and mesmer as per your examples can’t do the same damage at such a large range, that is your defensive mechanic.

Presuming we are refering to zerker specs most a mesmer is going to do is throw a phant at you and auto attack with lower DPS than a ranger, and Thief’s max range options usually cap at about 900.

Positioning is key, and even if you do screw up you have defensive options S/D as an offset being a common but not your only options.

If you spec into pure power go longbow/shortbow and use terrible positioning it’s not going to end well for you.

And rangers have been pushing glass cannons off point since day 1. One of the better counter roams imo. BM or well any type of tanky regen ranger will out heal most burst a mesmer can pull off, and make any thief run with their tails between their legs requiring a significant amount of outplay for either of them to bring you down while you cap and contest.

The arguments for and against greater defense, utility, and responsive are all reasonable. But the simple fact still remains that what the Ranger currently provides the game simply doesn’t need and the players don’t want. If you think the Ranger’s damage/range is too high to add more defense so teams will want to use it? Then draw down the damage/range some. Same for utility.

The class is still a laughing stock in PvP and WvW though and if it needs adjustments in one area to compensate it in another so this game has a niche for them to fill in an area that needs filling so be it.

The longbow’s defense is it’s range. All weapons with a similar range are similarly limited in defensive options for a reason.

You also still have a secondary weapon set. Grabbing greatsword for the block and secondary burst works well. As does sword/dagger for the plethora of extra evades and mobility.

Ragnar.3916:

Silv.9207:

Yeah, the ranger can only play for 12 sec withour recive direct damage.
Then can swap in sword/dagger and dodge all your skills.
You can remove all your and allies conditions with a signet (your pet isn’t happy about this)
With the LB, you can go in hide. (and with the trait, reset your 100% critical rante +5 vulnerability bonus at the first skill)
You can set up traits that gives you endurance regeneration, protect, regen, vigor, stability, stealth, damage reduction by 50% (under 25%hp), remove conditions (by timing, dodging, or skill use)

Yeah, Rangers sucks in defence…

that’s a nice classic forum boy answer.
but in practice mesmer and thief still damage and survive way better then a power ranger.
but the longbow knock need an animation. sounds logic

power ranger is still a freekill profession in the eu meta.
mesmer and thief not

That because thief and mesmer can’t burst people down from 1500 range. There is also set up for mes burst and positional req for thief bs. Both thief and mesmer are no where as brain dead as ranger when it comes to getting there burst off.

YourFriendMarvin.4127:

Count dodges, then time your pointblank shot.

This from a thief player – as if it would be possible to count the dodges a thief has available (i speak from meta builds) with vigor on heal, energy sigil, short bow and signets that restore endurance….

Power Ranger vs Thief should be an easy matchup for the thief.
Other classes are fine in this regard, only problem is after you counted the dodges of your enemy you are already dead as a power ranger if it is melee combat.

At this point i’m not sure myself how this problem could be handled good, because right now power ranger is only for low tier pvp where no coordination exists. If you strengthen the survivability then it may get op in this regard and it wouldn’t really change anything for high tier.

But as it is point blank shot is too strong for decapping so it defently needs a nerf, but we have to see how it will play out for defending against melee specks after the nerf.

Sube Dai.8496:

You can trait 2/0/6/6/0 with zerk amulet and still have good damage.

Survivability is where it should be for rangers.

Shhhhhhhhhhh =)

vincecontix.1264:

Ragnar.3916:

Silv.9207:

Yeah, the ranger can only play for 12 sec withour recive direct damage.
Then can swap in sword/dagger and dodge all your skills.
You can remove all your and allies conditions with a signet (your pet isn’t happy about this)
With the LB, you can go in hide. (and with the trait, reset your 100% critical rante +5 vulnerability bonus at the first skill)
You can set up traits that gives you endurance regeneration, protect, regen, vigor, stability, stealth, damage reduction by 50% (under 25%hp), remove conditions (by timing, dodging, or skill use)

Yeah, Rangers sucks in defence…

that’s a nice classic forum boy answer.
but in practice mesmer and thief still damage and survive way better then a power ranger.
but the longbow knock need an animation. sounds logic

power ranger is still a freekill profession in the eu meta.
mesmer and thief not

That because thief and mesmer can’t burst people down from 1500 range. There is also set up for mes burst and positional req for thief bs. Both thief and mesmer are no where as brain dead as ranger when it comes to getting there burst off.

yes the 3 buttons spam profession called thief is not brain dead
it’ so hard to go into teamfights with s/d thief and start the dodge spam by chasing one enemy and easy go out when it get dangerous. it’s also really hard as thief to use steal, it need so much brain and skill i don’t even want to try playing thief because as power ranger it’s so much more easy mode actually.

about mesmer i guess i missed something?
actually every mesmer is playing greatsword,
what was exatly the range of greatsword mesmer at the moment, hmm?
and i thought the mesmer gameplay is also to kite enemys while damage from high distance aswell.

but yes ofc power ranger is annoying brain dead easy mode when you have to survive a celestial d/d ele or any kind of thief chasing you.
it’s also easy mode if you do one misstake vs condi necros and condi engis.

it’s also really easy when your stealth on longbow just get random dodged, while mesmer and thief don’t need to hit a target to stealth up and just have twice as much skills to dissengange or survive.

there is a good reason for power rangers are not meta in high tier games.
on low tier games every good player can kill everything with every profession anyways.

reading all ths ranger whining after the patch was just an interesting show of how low players complain in this forum and anet have to listen to this crap.

about the decap,
no its not even unfair when you want to decap a point.
every profession have some good skills to decap points and they are also not easy predictable.

at least i’m not only complaining because anet decide to nerf point blank shot…
power ranger is anyways not viable.
i complain because it’s annoying when they think they have to keep an eye on power ranger specs and decide to shave them instantly after the first buff and thats completly all they do for the ranger profession? (with the actual informations from the ready up)

they forgot the uselss off hand axe,
the 70% useless pets,
the much useless traits,
the useless shouts
and the useless trapper ranger builds again?

A Power Ranger’s survivability comes from its range. Most classes{or all} except ranger cannot reach 1500 range, and you can therefor fire from there safely. That buffer space is your survivability. You also have a stealth skill and a knock back skill to keep your distance with.

Mesmers and thieves usually have to get in the range of others to get their full burst out, so they have skills to survive in that range better than certain rangers built for outside of the range.

Now, not to say rangers don’t deserve a buff or fix in certain places. Certainly, make pets work better[Not buff pets, just rework their AI a good bit], make those “useless” shouts you stated useful.

And, for all classes, buff useless traits into usefulness. Rangers aren’t alone in this.

On the note of Point Blank, it seems like they’re holding off from actual nerfs as much as simply “adjusting” the skills for this new long-range fast-shooting meta.

Ragnar.3916:

vincecontix.1264:

Ragnar.3916:

Silv.9207:

Yeah, the ranger can only play for 12 sec withour recive direct damage.
Then can swap in sword/dagger and dodge all your skills.
You can remove all your and allies conditions with a signet (your pet isn’t happy about this)
With the LB, you can go in hide. (and with the trait, reset your 100% critical rante +5 vulnerability bonus at the first skill)
You can set up traits that gives you endurance regeneration, protect, regen, vigor, stability, stealth, damage reduction by 50% (under 25%hp), remove conditions (by timing, dodging, or skill use)

Yeah, Rangers sucks in defence…

that’s a nice classic forum boy answer.
but in practice mesmer and thief still damage and survive way better then a power ranger.
but the longbow knock need an animation. sounds logic

power ranger is still a freekill profession in the eu meta.
mesmer and thief not

That because thief and mesmer can’t burst people down from 1500 range. There is also set up for mes burst and positional req for thief bs. Both thief and mesmer are no where as brain dead as ranger when it comes to getting there burst off.

yes the 3 buttons spam profession called thief is not brain dead
it’ so hard to go into teamfights with s/d thief and start the dodge spam by chasing one enemy and easy go out when it get dangerous. it’s also really hard as thief to use steal, it need so much brain and skill i don’t even want to try playing thief because as power ranger it’s so much more easy mode actually.

about mesmer i guess i missed something?
actually every mesmer is playing greatsword,
what was exatly the range of greatsword mesmer at the moment, hmm?
and i thought the mesmer gameplay is also to kite enemys while damage from high distance aswell.

but yes ofc power ranger is annoying brain dead easy mode when you have to survive a celestial d/d ele or any kind of thief chasing you.
it’s also easy mode if you do one misstake vs condi necros and condi engis.

it’s also really easy when your stealth on longbow just get random dodged, while mesmer and thief don’t need to hit a target to stealth up and just have twice as much skills to dissengange or survive.

there is a good reason for power rangers are not meta in high tier games.
on low tier games every good player can kill everything with every profession anyways.

reading all ths ranger whining after the patch was just an interesting show of how low players complain in this forum and anet have to listen to this crap.

about the decap,
no its not even unfair when you want to decap a point.
every profession have some good skills to decap points and they are also not easy predictable.

at least i’m not only complaining because anet decide to nerf point blank shot…
power ranger is anyways not viable.
i complain because it’s annoying when they think they have to keep an eye on power ranger specs and decide to shave them instantly after the first buff and thats completly all they do for the ranger profession? (with the actual informations from the ready up)

they forgot the uselss off hand axe,
the 70% useless pets,
the much useless traits,
the useless shouts
and the useless trapper ranger builds again?

Let make things more clear then, ranger is more brain dead than thief or mesmer. A class where you can just spam 2 to get your burst off shouldn’t become meta as it takes no skill at all.

vincecontix.1264:

Ragnar.3916:

vincecontix.1264:

Ragnar.3916:

Silv.9207:

Yeah, the ranger can only play for 12 sec withour recive direct damage.
Then can swap in sword/dagger and dodge all your skills.
You can remove all your and allies conditions with a signet (your pet isn’t happy about this)
With the LB, you can go in hide. (and with the trait, reset your 100% critical rante +5 vulnerability bonus at the first skill)
You can set up traits that gives you endurance regeneration, protect, regen, vigor, stability, stealth, damage reduction by 50% (under 25%hp), remove conditions (by timing, dodging, or skill use)

Yeah, Rangers sucks in defence…

that’s a nice classic forum boy answer.
but in practice mesmer and thief still damage and survive way better then a power ranger.
but the longbow knock need an animation. sounds logic

power ranger is still a freekill profession in the eu meta.
mesmer and thief not

That because thief and mesmer can’t burst people down from 1500 range. There is also set up for mes burst and positional req for thief bs. Both thief and mesmer are no where as brain dead as ranger when it comes to getting there burst off.

yes the 3 buttons spam profession called thief is not brain dead
it’ so hard to go into teamfights with s/d thief and start the dodge spam by chasing one enemy and easy go out when it get dangerous. it’s also really hard as thief to use steal, it need so much brain and skill i don’t even want to try playing thief because as power ranger it’s so much more easy mode actually.

about mesmer i guess i missed something?
actually every mesmer is playing greatsword,
what was exatly the range of greatsword mesmer at the moment, hmm?
and i thought the mesmer gameplay is also to kite enemys while damage from high distance aswell.

but yes ofc power ranger is annoying brain dead easy mode when you have to survive a celestial d/d ele or any kind of thief chasing you.
it’s also easy mode if you do one misstake vs condi necros and condi engis.

it’s also really easy when your stealth on longbow just get random dodged, while mesmer and thief don’t need to hit a target to stealth up and just have twice as much skills to dissengange or survive.

there is a good reason for power rangers are not meta in high tier games.
on low tier games every good player can kill everything with every profession anyways.

reading all ths ranger whining after the patch was just an interesting show of how low players complain in this forum and anet have to listen to this crap.

about the decap,
no its not even unfair when you want to decap a point.
every profession have some good skills to decap points and they are also not easy predictable.

at least i’m not only complaining because anet decide to nerf point blank shot…
power ranger is anyways not viable.
i complain because it’s annoying when they think they have to keep an eye on power ranger specs and decide to shave them instantly after the first buff and thats completly all they do for the ranger profession? (with the actual informations from the ready up)

they forgot the uselss off hand axe,
the 70% useless pets,
the much useless traits,
the useless shouts
and the useless trapper ranger builds again?

Let make things more clear then, ranger is more brain dead than thief or mesmer. A class where you can just spam 2 to get your burst off shouldn’t become meta as it takes no skill at all.

Why does involving more than one button press suddenly change a skill from skillless to skillful?

Mesmer GS 2, 3, and 4 are all AE damage and combined hit for more than RF on a single target. Mesmer can still fall back on a shatter for even more damage. At competing range to a longbow and access to infinitely more powerful defensive skills and utility.

Is the fact that one of the above skills has a 20 second cooldown whereas RF has a 10 second cooldown and 300 more range enough to remove all the utility, AE, and defensive options? Not to mention the Mesmer has enormous burst to tie in with their offhand sword+whatevs or insanely high defense with staff.

It’s similar for Thief. they can easily trait steal to 1500 if they wanted Most don’t need it because the difference in range is not something a Thief has much trouble clearing though. They can then trigger a Cnd+mug and a backstab or sword larcenous combo for competing damage to RF.

These combos aren’t that complex and are merely openers for the mesmer and thief. The Ranger doesn’t have much to fall back on once they RF other than LRS.

But if you want to pretend the above truly is enough cause for the Ranger to have such poor utility/defense, I’m sure many Rangers would gladly take a 20% shave off RF in exchange for viability within the meta.

use Entangle
have a wolf, spider or another pet with CC as a secondary pet,
have sword/dagger as a “switch-to” set incase the enemy gets close,
use Signet of Stone or Protect Me.

My only real wish is that they fix Hunter’s Shot. I’ve had many times in PvP where I’d get the stealth, then pretty much immediately get broken out of it again without reason I can identify.

Kreed.2768:

My only real wish is that they fix Hunter’s Shot. I’ve had many times in PvP where I’d get the stealth, then pretty much immediately get broken out of it again without reason I can identify.

Maybe fire or lighting sigil caused get reveal or you auto attacked? Do you have a on swap sigil that does damage like hydromancy or geomancy?

vincecontix.1264:

Kreed.2768:

My only real wish is that they fix Hunter’s Shot. I’ve had many times in PvP where I’d get the stealth, then pretty much immediately get broken out of it again without reason I can identify.

Maybe fire or lighting sigil caused get reveal or you auto attacked? Do you have a on swap sigil that does damage like hydromancy or geomancy?

No, just fire and air. I guess those might be causing it. Will have to test it out on some golems.

There is no problem with the survival mechanic.
For me, playing a ranger is about player’s skills as the following;

How do you keep a distance from your prey? Always abuse the 1500 range.
How do you foreseen the gap closer skill of each class? Are you keen enough to see through group fight knowing they had used their gap closer? Thus, effecting your pick on the prey to ensure they got no escape.
Have you abuse on the terrain design of the pvp map? Stay in high ground when you pewpew.
Has the player anticipated your present? Sadly to say, we are quite easily predicted. It is best to take them in surprise. We win in ambush.

What i did was, once the prey know from which point 1500 away i pewpew from, i would just disengage the fight before they even tried to chase me, and shooting them again from a different position if they gave up, possible flank and rear side of the player.

Silv.9207:

You can set up traits that gives you endurance regeneration, protect, regen, vigor, stability, stealth, damage reduction by 50% (under 25%hp), remove conditions (by timing, dodging, or skill use)

Yeah, Rangers sucks in defence…

Those traits ain’t in DPS lines though. They are in the bunker/conditank lines.

In my opinion http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hilt_Bash should just get its cooldown reduced to 18 seconds from 25 and it would help a lot in direct combat. This skill is incredible hard to land and has a really high cooldown for that.

Would help power ranger to duel thieves as well which is basically its exact weakness resulting in overall more viability.

Dojo.1867:

In my opinion http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hilt_Bash should just get its cooldown reduced to 18 seconds from 25 and it would help a lot in direct combat. This skill is incredible hard to land and has a really high cooldown for that.

Would help power ranger to duel thieves as well which is basically its exact weakness resulting in overall more viability.

should have its range increased too.

18 or 25 seconds I’m not sure would make much difference; you would still only get 1 shot at landing it before you died to a competent thief.
What would help imo is to move the cond clear on utitlity use (just remembered the name survival of the fittest) to the crit/ferocity line as GM and allow for stealth without requiring a hit from LB.
In order to balance a bit, they could then remove the extra damage from signet of the Wild while keeping its regen and stability.

point blank shot is hard nerfed like i thought and a non meta build losing one of a good extra survive skill you was able to time well to interrupt enemy professions like f1 from hambow warriors, thiefs jumping on you etc.

but adding even a cast time to this skill is a nice joke for a squishy build like this, if you see something to interrupt when enemys get close range to you, it’s most time to late with a kittened cast time like this.
that’s anet brain quality like always, easy to dodge as pinndown but not even close effective as pinndown.

and why the hell engi can run with the shield 4 and the ranger can’t still run with the axe 5?
i thought the engi shield 4 was allready really strong and useful.
but ok keep random buffing and random nerfing stuff without even think a minute about what you do.

longbow was a really slow feeling weapon in the past for a fast dying build.

you started to make it feel more fast and smooth to play.

and kittening now you start to make this weapon mainly made for zerker builds (where you have to react fast if you want to survive) feel slower again?
especially an important skill like this you have to nerf kittened like this Oo

You need to actually swap weapons. Between two weapons you have more than most classes.

Also you don’t need to go 6/6/2 to do awesome damage. With a little bit of thought you can run with near permanent protection and become very tanky and still do better damage than all but thief and mesmer.

Tbh the class is strong… maybe too strong.

[quote=4538012;Relentliss.2170:]

Relentliss.2170:

You need to actually swap weapons.
Tbh the class is strong… maybe too strong.

Troll
/15 characters

dylan.5409:

Relentliss.2170:

You need to actually swap weapons.
Tbh the class is strong… maybe too strong.

Troll
/15 characters

Wasn’t meant as a troll.

Longbow itself has 2 rather strong protective skills. It’s other weapon sets all have protective skills. I am not seeing the problem. If you think GS 5 or LB 4 is heavily telegraphed go try a warrior where every skill is telegraphed. The last skill on a weapon is usually very defensive and usually has a long cd.

6/6/x/x/x with beserker gear are not the only builds. The rangers that give me problems usually have defensive traits but run beserker gear. You can tell, they hit pretty hard but are very very hard to kill.

I have 2 friends who both swear by their Ranger’s ability to tank points. And my one friend had his win % skyrocket while playing on his ranger.

Here’s the thing. I think rangers were buffed the way they were because they are a big in PvE, and those buffs would benefit the majority play-style of farming PvE rangers as they venture in to PvP and WvW. It pleases two camps with a simple band-aide: Those profession-loyal rangers that got owned in PvP before the buffs (elite rangers still managed but spirit builds were generally the only way for base-level rangers to keep up), and it also pleases the e-sports development aspects since a ton more rangers are coming into pvp in general. Besides, Anet is not going to leave a profession at the bottom of the meta for long. Every profession eventually gets it’s shine. Just ask eles before “ele-geddon” and celestial amulet happened.

The problem with how rangers were buffed is that it’s in a crutch-like manner. It doesn’t address their bad matchups with the other professions in mid range. It doesn’t address their pet AI issues, just like the pet armor/health buffs a while back only made PvE farming a literal no-brainer and didn’t address high-level PvP concerns. These current buffs make LB rangers a specialty gank profession that has no useful stealth other than in-fight. Don’t get me wrong! Now they have instagib setups that wreck a lot in solo q and in 1v1s, but like most medium classes, they get wrecked if focused. Can’t really disengage. But that’s why long-distance spike is in and of itself a defensive trait.

That’s why I’ve learned PvP has some real balance. For a while, LB rangers were my worst matchup as an engineer since I had to move from pure offensive to major reflect or stealth builds after the BM and LB buffs. But now since I’ve adapted, I know what I can and can’t do vs a base-level ranger. Same for most rangers now. They have some great things they can do but they are still sub-par in melee without either traps, the right pet setup or their new elite. (if a great ranger touches me with that sword though I’m going to feel it.)

There are so many things elite rangers are good at though. You can have a semi-nike sword build with traps so disengaging gets easier. You can might stack like crazy with axe, new runes that might make it to pvp are going to give you a boost, and you can get some crazy instagib combos going with the right signet and pet setup. Pet immobilize is hella broken lol! Also gank rangers are the best with stacking sigils, but you have to learn other weapon sets and stop getting upset at the current meta, learn where you can own and expand from there. Just know your role and exploit it.

@ Relentliss
Last time I checked, zerker ammy with defensive traits gets you about 5oo per LB auto attack and 2k RF; laughably bad
Th “Don’t get me wrong! Now they have instagib setups that wreck a lot in solo q and in 1v1s, but like most medium classes, they get wrecked if focused. Can’t really disengage. But that’s why long-distance spike is in and of itself a defensive trait.”

I will agree that they have an insta gib set up, stealth, SotW, QZ, RF, which could use a nerf imo, probably through the signet, but as you point out, that’s really all they’ve got.
This isnt really balance imo, good burst once per minute dosent make up for being so easily shut down. The best comparison atm is probably to a fresh air ele, they can be hell with CD’s up but too easy to train all match when defensives are on cd (and fresh air ele’s are probably better in a team q because they can build for boon share).
One of the essential defensive problems is that no amount of good positioning will save you from meta thief /mesmer builds, still rulers of the zerker world for 2yrs running.

Atherakhia.4086:

The arguments for and against greater defense, utility, and responsive are all reasonable. But the simple fact still remains that what the Ranger currently provides the game simply doesn’t need and the players don’t want. If you think the Ranger’s damage/range is too high to add more defense so teams will want to use it? Then draw down the damage/range some. Same for utility.

The class is still a laughing stock in PvP and WvW though and if it needs adjustments in one area to compensate it in another so this game has a niche for them to fill in an area that needs filling so be it.

You really gotta learn to play and face reality. Rangers are only a real laughingstock in GvG, an unofficial elitist community thing, and among dungeon PUGs. Every other part of the game, the ranger has as good a place as any other prof.
Just so happens that it aint used by top players in pvp that much, but that is more likely then not a personal preference/team comp issue rather then the ranger itself.

Just like a dungeon group, if prof x + y bring a+b, you do not need prof z to bring a+b too.

Edit. I would also like to add in, that your personal bias towards non-power builds is what causes you to only see a one-dimensional image of the ranger class. You have, through several conversations with you, admitted that you do not wish to invest in the pet mechanic, nor that you wish to play any build, on any prof, that involves conditions as main source of DPS.
With such an attitude, you are essentially building your ranger with barely 50% efficiency, and still hope to fight professions that is running heavily optimized builds.
Through what can only be described as a test duel, I could not determine your actual skilllevel, however forum ppostsand ingame conversations suggest that you lack knowledge of mechanical functions, and their limitations, of several builds across several professions.
With this in mind, I would advise against making definitive/absolute statements in the way you so often do.

Was hoping Prysin would visit this thread. This is the person who’s advice I tend to save the most when building my ranger and when dealing with new ranger threats when on other classes. One thing I’ve learned in from Prysin (in a “critical thinking” sort of way) is that there are great things within rangers’ capabilities, you just have to be willing to try, be willing to learn and be willing to see the positives when compared to other classes and their meta/non meta builds.

@Prysin, what kind of amulets, sigils, runes and pet setups are you working with lately?

dylan.5409:

@ Relentliss
Last time I checked, zerker ammy with defensive traits gets you about 5oo per LB auto attack and 2k RF; laughably bad
Th “Don’t get me wrong! Now they have instagib setups that wreck a lot in solo q and in 1v1s, but like most medium classes, they get wrecked if focused. Can’t really disengage. But that’s why long-distance spike is in and of itself a defensive trait.”

The build I made would RF people for 4-7k and was pretty tanky.

Atm I run celestial survival condi. But ive also run rabid SB bleedstack, zerker with emphasis on sustain rather then maxing all dps. In short, more pewew, less #yolo #ehrmagawdzomgcondiesop

Prysin.8542:

Atm I run celestial survival condi. But ive also run rabid SB bleedstack, zerker with emphasis on sustain rather then maxing all dps. In short, more pewew, less #yolo #ehrmagawdzomgcondiesop

Sweet, I’m going to be trying to perfect Carrion with Mad King runes with longbow, and either axe/warhorn for might stacking after entangle or sword/warhorn for mobility and gank escapes. Gotta be careful with that against guardians, but the offensive uptime kind of makes it worth it to me. It’s different being a medium armor fighter and not having stealth for escapes, but I feel like I do decent camo/stealth resets in-fight to guarantee elites, land traps and pet cc. I don’t think I can troll a point like a cele ele can, but I can put up some kind of fight while a teammate arrives if our rotation is good.

to clarify, this nerf of point blank shot souns like a little not important game change for much peoples in this forum.
speaking about ranger have enough survive mechanics and just can swap weapons to sword/dagger to get tones of evades…

but actually in the more high skilled part of pvp fights
(not tpvp since power ranger is not even meta)
you can feel little nerfs like this really fast,
just because you need to use everything well,
simply because your enemy players also use everything well…

when i “cry” about “little nerfes” like the point blank shot
(which can hard change a fight to lose where you was able to win before,
just because you was still able to (fast) interrupt an important attack of an enemy would heave killed you if you don’t do this…
and sadly… weapon swap and some dodges on the second weaponhand was allready on cooldown, because your enemy is also not a complete noob letting you free cast on max range and holdes youn under pressure.

then stupid nerfs like this are just big nerfs and a big game change for peoples used power ranger builds vs. skilled players.
and power ranger was not even close to be able in high skilled tpvp fights…
(longbow is still a crap of weapon, same for offhand axe and greatsword)

so for me this nerf makes just a big difference.
it’s completly annoying to read answers telling me the basics of ranger
like use weapon swap and use sword/dagger.
of course i use this…
i speak about this nerf on one weapon makes a big difference for power rangers vs good enemy players.
and a powe ranger player still heave to play better then his enemy player when he wants to win (don’t speaking about hotjoin or soloq level)

animations changes are verry interesting game changes when you play well in this game and
adding even a cast time to a skill where you was able to use it as a good interrupt on a squishy build is just a hard nerf if you fight vs peoples with a brain.

i would say it’s impossible now to do good things like.
knock out a thief from shadow refuge (no as easy but was possible)
knock out a thief before he stealthed up in his blind field.
knock back a hambow warrior in close combat when he use some hamer knocks.
interrupt an mesmer using mass invis.
etc

you simply can’t interrupt enemys well with this stupid cast time now.
you need to see the animations, react and then there is also the cast time aswell now… nice joke.
just a kittened random nerf for a not even well enough working build.
stupid anet, srsly

think powe ranger will never work in this game.
two years of completly useless => starting to finaly buff it => and wtf nerf it even one month after the buff allready again… there must be a huge ranger hater working for anet.
i mean why warrior was able to faceroll for almost one year and ele can completly faceroll for a long time aswell now?
don’t want to speak about s/d thief..

but yes nerf power ranger, joke <3

I played my Ranger quite a bit last ngiht and did not see much difference with Point Blank Shot. It’s pretty much as OP as it was.

Power ranger is a tad under powered. Still able to compete even at top tier though. Small deserved nerfs to other classes and a pet management buff would help balance things out.

Prysin.8542:

Atherakhia.4086:

The arguments for and against greater defense, utility, and responsive are all reasonable. But the simple fact still remains that what the Ranger currently provides the game simply doesn’t need and the players don’t want. If you think the Ranger’s damage/range is too high to add more defense so teams will want to use it? Then draw down the damage/range some. Same for utility.

The class is still a laughing stock in PvP and WvW though and if it needs adjustments in one area to compensate it in another so this game has a niche for them to fill in an area that needs filling so be it.

You really gotta learn to play and face reality. Rangers are only a real laughingstock in GvG, an unofficial elitist community thing, and among dungeon PUGs. Every other part of the game, the ranger has as good a place as any other prof.
Just so happens that it aint used by top players in pvp that much, but that is more likely then not a personal preference/team comp issue rather then the ranger itself.

Just like a dungeon group, if prof x + y bring a+b, you do not need prof z to bring a+b too.

Edit. I would also like to add in, that your personal bias towards non-power builds is what causes you to only see a one-dimensional image of the ranger class. You have, through several conversations with you, admitted that you do not wish to invest in the pet mechanic, nor that you wish to play any build, on any prof, that involves conditions as main source of DPS.
With such an attitude, you are essentially building your ranger with barely 50% efficiency, and still hope to fight professions that is running heavily optimized builds.
Through what can only be described as a test duel, I could not determine your actual skilllevel, however forum ppostsand ingame conversations suggest that you lack knowledge of mechanical functions, and their limitations, of several builds across several professions.
With this in mind, I would advise against making definitive/absolute statements in the way you so often do.

Still as delusional as always…

My dislike of condition builds isn’t out of ignorance. It’s just I don’t enjoy playing them. I have never said the class makes a bad condi/bunker. I’ve never said condi builds for other classes are weak. I simply don’t enjoy playing condi spec.

I don’t PvP often. I do it to play with friends or to try out new builds. That’s about it. Judging from the comments on this forum though, the class still isn’t breaking into the meta. The difference between you and I is you want to pretend the reason for this is out of player ignorance and their unwillingness to try new things or new comps. You use the same argument for why, after 2 years, no one values Rangers in WvW or GvG outside of roaming or the laughable role of sniping a driver. Why is it so hard for you to accept that instead of laziness and ignorance, there could actually be an issue with the class?

And then to top it off you call me a skillless noob. Lovely… coming from someone who runs a troll build…

Atherakhia.4086:

- snip -

Let me address things in order;
1: If you do not play a build, you will never understand how it actually works. How you gotta play it (mechanical skill part of it), how it is countered (game mechanics) nor how to circumvent or reduce the number of counters.
You do not play conditions, you know they hurt, you have at multiple occasions admitted that you struggle against condition builds which further tells me (and most others) that you do not really know how they work. You do not know their cooldowns good enough to plan 2-3 steps ahead. This means that players equally skilled as you, will beat you unless some special circumstances are applied (luck, game lagging, enemy making mistakes etc…).

2: People see what they want to see – fact:
Why do i “claim” that people are ignorant about rangers? Well because they pretty much are.
Point in case: Remember warrior healing signet before it was nerfed? Remember how everyone and their mother claimed that warrior had the best self regen in the game?
That was proven to be false quite fast (not by me, someone else). Rangers had infact 150-200 hp/second more, even when accounting for Adrenal Health and both ranger and warrior having maxed out their healing power stat. But i guess warrior still had better self regen solely because it is a warrior.
People claimed necros had the longest fear – false, rangers does when using moment of clarity trait and skull + wolf F2 (can also add in norn wolf form for more). Simply put and intended/unintended effect of the grandmaster trait doubled the duration of fear (pre fear being made an interrupt).
People claimed spirits was OP and unstoppable – Ranger community gave tonns of advice how to beat spirits (I did so too), yet the PvP/WvW community did not listen and spirits was nerfed 3 times in a row to the point of being borderline lackluster again (mainly because now they are much weaker and there exist 3 hardcounter meta builds out there. GG anet).
PEOPLE STILL CLAIM longbow glasscannon ranger is OP, despite the ranger community telling people how to counter the entire build. The community DID somewhat listen this time (atleast PvP). So far only one minor shave has happened, and this one is deserved/fair.

Considering that one must repeatedly tell people “rangers CAN do that better then others” leads me to conclude that people ARE oblivious to what rangers can and cannot do. They do not care to see what happens with the class, and only a change that is so fundamentally game changing as giving rangers a skill that actually hurts made them notice.

3:
Please read this line again -

Through what can only be described as a test duel, I could not determine your actual skilllevel, however forum ppostsand ingame conversations suggest that you lack knowledge of mechanical functions, and their limitations, of several builds across several professions.
With this in mind, I would advise against making definitive/absolute statements in the way you so often do.

Now at which one point do i say you are:
A – a skill-less noob
B – show you my build

Now, for starters, calling yourself a skill-less noob is fine by me, but crediting me for saying it is not. I merely said you are not half as knowledgeable about builds and how they work to make definitive and absolute statements, which is what you do.
You say “rangers suck”. But your only argument for why? 2 years? is – pets does not work in blobs. GvG guilds do not want my ranger.
To that i can only say:
Mesmer clones does not work in zergs
Necromancer minions doesnt work in zergs
Guardian spirit weapons – don’t get me started
Ele elementals – dead in a flash.
Engi turrets – will live 15 seconds if fully traited with all turret traits + toolkit wrench spam.

AI does not work in zergs. This is a design flaw of ALL AI, not native to rangers, nor native to ONE specific profession mechanic. It affects everyone equally.

oh and GvG is a community driven, UNOFFICIAL and UNSUPPORTED “game mode”. Created, administrated and run by PLAYERS. It is by no means backed by ArenaNet, they may back it in the future by releasing arenas specifically for GvG, but i would not hold my breath. In the meantime, these “pr0” guilds keep alienating pugs and smaller non-GvG guilds alike with their excessively elitist and hostile attitude. They also force you to play builds/classes you may or may not be comfortable with solely because they are unable to incorporate and or variate their 10-20 man composition.
GvG is a massive kitten competition. All you win is bragging rights. And these bragging rights ain’t worth a single copper to the average player.

How do you think I determined I didn’t enjoy playing condi in this game? Lucky guess? Do you think I play on some isolated server devoid of condi builds that I fight against? One need not play a class or spec to appreciate what it’s capable of or devise a way to combat it.

And as I’ve told you numerous times, I refuse to believe that the thing holding back Rangers is how other players feel about the class. If the class had a meaningful role to fill and was capable of filling it, a commander out there would have found it. PvP teams would be using it. There was a time spirit Ranger was viable. Did every player who played that spec quit tha game? They would have had to given the logic you base your opinions around.

Now as to GvG in particular, ANet is taking notice of it. There is a huge following for it. Just because they don’t have a specific battleground for it or because the playerbase organizes it doesn’t make it any less of a thing.

I’m not asking ANet to balance around GvG or WvW either. I’m simply asking them to give the Ranger a niche to fill that the players want and the game needs. If it had this we’d see the class as more than an outlier in PvP, GvG, and WvW.

Heck, this doesn’t even necessarily mean you need to buff Rangers. It’s just as likely other classes overshadow the things the Ranger brings and perhaps those areas need to be addressed. We’ve had this conversation too.