Guild Wars 2

ok now i have your attention,when are we goign to see any nerfs to the god trio?
mesmer-guardian-thief

when on every tournament the 95 % of the class are those 3 we have a problem

They don’t need nerfing’s really.

Think of a game.

You can only move along the X-axis.
Someone else can move along the X-axis and Y-axis.
Someone esle can move along the X-axis, Y-axis, and Z-axis.

Nerfing everyone down to the first option results in a boring game.
The holy trinity are the classes that have free reign. Limiting factors are what you make of them. The other classse are stuck in the first or 2nd option, which is why you see complaints.

mesmer is a good 1v1 with nice utilities
guardian is a good capper
thief is a good roamer

how come in gw1 there were a lot of monks warrior, ele and mesmer in every gvg team? lol

Mesmer is a good 1v1… and 1vX… and good group debuffer and good group buffer (group haste anyone?)… and does good dps… and has good survivability… and group port…

Guardian is a good capper. i think they are strong but fine.

Thief is a good roamer… and insane dps… and insane mobility… and can chain stealth out of bad situations… They are by no means “squishy”. The common defense is “focus them down and they die fast”. Well, that holds true for ANY non-tanky class, and even then…

The reason so many people are playing these classes is because they are inherently better at MULTIPLE aspects of what other classes can do.

Don’t nerf, buff the other classes.

weakening them will just put them in the leagues of other weaker classes. buff the weaker classes to make them up to par with the “OP” classes.

I was duped. I thought this was going to be about Healer/DPS/Tank.

Which…while I enjoy GW2..sometimes I kind of miss it…heh.

Defensive Guardians can bite me though, F that noise.

Defensive Engi’s aren’t much better..ugh.

when i write i assume players are skilled enought to face their opponents; writing that mesmer guardian and thief are only op makes me feel sad.

noone wants to learn to play this game anymore? just yell at op classes is enough for you?
ok

nobody wants a competitive pvp game it seems, they just want what wow gave them, constly bad buffs/nerfs that alternated what class was OP and what was UP.

let the meta mature, ill keep repeating it

Shukran.4851:

when i write i assume players are skilled enought to face their opponents; writing that mesmer guardian and thief are only op makes me feel sad.

noone wants to learn to play this game anymore? just yell at op classes is enough for you?
ok

People are getting to the point where they do know the game and understand it well enough to declare that these classes are definitively a bit too strong. I am not so sold on the thief being all that overpowered, but the mesmer certainly is.

You also need to pay attention to the logic of your thinking… if it were about learning the game, then thieves and mesmers should also need to learn it and have problems with different things. They really don’t, at least not by the complaints we read.

Add to this that the uplevel system allows all of these players who face a Mesmer or whatever on their class of choice to go ahead, roll a Mesmer and try it out. When people have, they’ve found it substantially easier.

Skolops.2604:

Shukran.4851:

when i write i assume players are skilled enought to face their opponents; writing that mesmer guardian and thief are only op makes me feel sad.

noone wants to learn to play this game anymore? just yell at op classes is enough for you?
ok

People are getting to the point where they do know the game and understand it well enough to declare that these classes are definitively a bit too strong. I am not so sold on the thief being all that overpowered, but the mesmer certainly is.

You also need to pay attention to the logic of your thinking… if it were about learning the game, then thieves and mesmers should also need to learn it and have problems with different things. They really don’t, at least not by the complaints we read.

Add to this that the uplevel system allows all of these players who face a Mesmer or whatever on their class of choice to go ahead, roll a Mesmer and try it out. When people have, they’ve found it substantially easier.

dude, they think they know the game, some of there accusations may be right, but to think that they actually know the game is a falsehood. you really are bad at the concept of keeping balance.

you want to know my problems as a thief? i have trouble with conditions, my only ways to remove burning/poison/bleed is on my 30 second heal or a passive that has a 45 second CD and activates when my hp hits 75%.

my only way to remove cripple/weakness is on a DIFFERENT heal, or a 1 min cd dodge that also returns ini, or traiting so when we dodge it removes them (few thieves take this skill atm). only way to remove chill affects are that heal and 1min cd, obviously we cant have this all, and the best we can get leaves us with a sustain build, not a damage build (not enough points left)

we have another way to remove condition, but it removes 1 random condition every 3 seconds while in stealth (even when stealth specced it lasts 4 seconds, so you get one random condition removed)

i have other weaknesses/issues, certain classes and specs also give me a hard time. but why explain it all, you want wows pendulum design of “balance” and its obvious

Wolfe.3097:

Skolops.2604:

Shukran.4851:

when i write i assume players are skilled enought to face their opponents; writing that mesmer guardian and thief are only op makes me feel sad.

noone wants to learn to play this game anymore? just yell at op classes is enough for you?
ok

People are getting to the point where they do know the game and understand it well enough to declare that these classes are definitively a bit too strong. I am not so sold on the thief being all that overpowered, but the mesmer certainly is.

You also need to pay attention to the logic of your thinking… if it were about learning the game, then thieves and mesmers should also need to learn it and have problems with different things. They really don’t, at least not by the complaints we read.

Add to this that the uplevel system allows all of these players who face a Mesmer or whatever on their class of choice to go ahead, roll a Mesmer and try it out. When people have, they’ve found it substantially easier.

dude, they think they know the game, some of there accusations may be right, but to think that they actually know the game is a falsehood. you really are bad at the concept of keeping balance.

you want to know my problems as a thief? i have trouble with conditions, my only ways to remove burning/poison/bleed is on my 30 second heal or a passive that has a 45 second CD and activates when my hp hits 75%.

my only way to remove cripple/weakness is on a DIFFERENT heal, or a 1 min cd dodge that also returns ini, or traiting so when we dodge it removes them (few thieves take this skill atm). only way to remove chill affects are that heal and 1min cd, obviously we cant have this all, and the best we can get leaves us with a sustain build, not a damage build (not enough points left)

we have another way to remove condition, but it removes 1 random condition every 3 seconds while in stealth (even when stealth specced it lasts 4 seconds, so you get one random condition removed)

i have other weaknesses/issues, certain classes and specs also give me a hard time. but why explain it all, you want wows pendulum design of “balance” and its obvious

First of all, I never played WoW. Second, I have never been one to cry about balance in MMOs but have typically been of the opinion that the games are balanced and people need to learn to play. In this game, it seems so obvious to me that I simply can’t have a different opinion other than that its unbalanced.

More to the point: what exactly do you define as “WoW’s pendulum design of balance?” I honestly have no idea what you’re trying to say.

it is easy. others games you cant go to pvp with you 5 minutes played character so we cant see this.
but on GW you can so weare seeing only thsoe clases on pvp.
if you really thinks thatit is balanced and the problem is thatpeople dont know how to play im sure that you are a troll because the GW2 with those 10 skill is damed easy to master.
sorry but mien argument is just.one game that lets u play on pvp with any lvl 1 char that u want and EVERYBODY is choosing only those 3 characters is because they areoverpowered or other chars are underpowers

Skolops.2604:

Wolfe.3097:

Skolops.2604:

Shukran.4851:

when i write i assume players are skilled enought to face their opponents; writing that mesmer guardian and thief are only op makes me feel sad.

noone wants to learn to play this game anymore? just yell at op classes is enough for you?
ok

People are getting to the point where they do know the game and understand it well enough to declare that these classes are definitively a bit too strong. I am not so sold on the thief being all that overpowered, but the mesmer certainly is.

You also need to pay attention to the logic of your thinking… if it were about learning the game, then thieves and mesmers should also need to learn it and have problems with different things. They really don’t, at least not by the complaints we read.

Add to this that the uplevel system allows all of these players who face a Mesmer or whatever on their class of choice to go ahead, roll a Mesmer and try it out. When people have, they’ve found it substantially easier.

dude, they think they know the game, some of there accusations may be right, but to think that they actually know the game is a falsehood. you really are bad at the concept of keeping balance.

you want to know my problems as a thief? i have trouble with conditions, my only ways to remove burning/poison/bleed is on my 30 second heal or a passive that has a 45 second CD and activates when my hp hits 75%.

my only way to remove cripple/weakness is on a DIFFERENT heal, or a 1 min cd dodge that also returns ini, or traiting so when we dodge it removes them (few thieves take this skill atm). only way to remove chill affects are that heal and 1min cd, obviously we cant have this all, and the best we can get leaves us with a sustain build, not a damage build (not enough points left)

we have another way to remove condition, but it removes 1 random condition every 3 seconds while in stealth (even when stealth specced it lasts 4 seconds, so you get one random condition removed)

i have other weaknesses/issues, certain classes and specs also give me a hard time. but why explain it all, you want wows pendulum design of “balance” and its obvious

First of all, I never played WoW. Second, I have never been one to cry about balance in MMOs but have typically been of the opinion that the games are balanced and people need to learn to play. In this game, it seems so obvious to me that I simply can’t have a different opinion other than that its unbalanced.

More to the point: what exactly do you define as “WoW’s pendulum design of balance?” I honestly have no idea what you’re trying to say.

how many mmo’s or competitive pvp games have you played? cuz this game is far from worst atm.

wows pendulum design, they cant balance worth crap, so isntead they nerf something that people complain about, and buff other things until a diff class is “OP” for a duration, add infinum…a constant cycle of buffin gand nerfing with a attempt to appear to be balancing but really its just a facade.

doko.3276:

it is easy. others games you cant go to pvp with you 5 minutes played character so we cant see this.
but on GW you can so weare seeing only thsoe clases on pvp.
if you really thinks thatit is balanced and the problem is thatpeople dont know how to play im sure that you are a troll because the GW2 with those 10 skill is damed easy to master.
sorry but mien argument is just.one game that lets u play on pvp with any lvl 1 char that u want and EVERYBODY is choosing only those 3 characters is because they areoverpowered or other chars are underpowers

firstly, i didnt say the game was balanced, i said you NEED TO LET THE GAME MATURE to really find exactly what needs to be balanced. and imo wow was easier to master with its bajillion skills and macros. this game is diff, people arent used to it yet “no, dont you dare tell me people are, the majority definitly arent”. also, its 15 skills (have to consider weapon swap lol).

they very wel may be OP, and that very well may be part of the reason, but its more likely they are easy, or they have a spec thats easy. either way you still need to let the game mature to get a accurate picture, you dont wait a mont, nerf/buff and wait another month…thats just bad balancing.

sorry dude the warrior is easy,and it was overpowered,but then people learned that one anti cc and the warrior is down, but now those 3 class are overpower and we have had time to counter then,but it is imposible to counter so now the forums is full of crys for nerfs to those 3 classes

doko.3276:

sorry dude the warrior is easy,and it was overpowered,but then people learned that one anti cc and the warrior is down, but now those 3 class are overpower and we have had time to counter then,but it is imposible to counter so now the forums is full of crys for nerfs to those 3 classes

“we had time to figure out x so y must already be figured out by now too!”

ya…

forum cryers cry about EVERYTHING, anything that is remotely difficult or doesnt agree with there tastes gets complained on, its hardly a indicator of anything except the downwardspiral of society and the internet

People observing the obvious aren’t crying – they’re pointing out what every competitive player already knows: 3 classes are head and shoulders above the rest at their respective roles.

Without balance tweaks, this isn’t going to change. You don’t need to let the meta evolve; these classes are very clearly better than the alternatives.

That doesn’t mean those classes need nerfs, necessarily (although I’d argue that it’s a no-brainer that Mesmer portal needs to be unusable while carrying a repair kit), but rather that other classes need to be brought to the same level.

doko.3276:

when on every tournament the 95 % of the class are those 3 we have a problem

I think you need to play more tournament, because that sentance is completely wrong.

mouse.1689:

People observing the obvious aren’t crying – they’re pointing out what every competitive player already knows: 3 classes are head and shoulders above the rest at their respective roles.

Without balance tweaks, this isn’t going to change. You don’t need to let the meta evolve; these classes are very clearly better than the alternatives.

That doesn’t mean those classes need nerfs, necessarily (although I’d argue that it’s a no-brainer that Mesmer portal needs to be unusable while carrying a repair kit), but rather that other classes need to be brought to the same level.

street fighter 4, when the new chars came out (forget ther name, two kids) everyone cried OP, everyone played them, tourneys were filled with them. did they nerf them? no, few months went by, counters were found, tricks were learned, they were overcome, diversity was restored. obviously im not saying the game is perfectly balanced, but the company has a better concept of balance this most it seems, many things work themselves out even when people “know its obviously overpowered or underpowered” as you say.

Wolfe.3097

street fighter 4, when the new chars came out (forget ther name, two kids) everyone cried OP, everyone played them, tourneys were filled with them. did they nerf them? no, few months went by, counters were found, tricks were learned, they were overcome, diversity was restored. obviously im not saying the game is perfectly balanced, but the company has a better concept of balance this most it seems, many things work themselves out even when people “know its obviously overpowered or underpowered” as you say.

Here’s the thing. They were making major balance changes to classes less than a week before release, which is very clearly not enough time to have thoroughly tested them. Among those changes:

Elementalists received several nerfs. Mesmers and Thieves received several buffs.

Now, a few weeks after release, it’s widely agreed that Elementalist is one of the weakest classes in the game, where Thief and Mesmer are considered two of the strongest. This isn’t coincidence; these classes were simply overbuffed/nerfed.

It’s just that simple. They released the game in the middle of making balance changes. The notion that they shouldn’t continue to make those balance changes in order to finish the job is outright silly.

Now is the best time to make further tweaks, well before they implement paid tournaments and a ranking system, where balance will be far more relevant.

i give up, you all wanna destroy the competitive nature of this game, be my guest, ill go enjoy borderlands 2 maybe

As soon as you can explain why you’ve arbitrarily chosen release day as the day where “everything is pretty much balanced and we just need time to adjust”, maybe people will be receptive to your argument.

Three weeks before launch, Mesmers were the weakest class in the game, and Thieves were pretty bad too. Two weeks later, those classes are head and shoulders above other classes in the game.

Sorry, but this isn’t a “wait and see” scenario. They overbuffed those classes to the point where others are strictly worse in their respective roles.

If you’re actually interested in “the competitive nature” of the game, then you should be in favor of continuing, reasonable balance changes until all classes are more or less on equal footing.

lol love it. The Trinity is so fitting=P

Mesmers are just not understood at the moment. They have been given real funky game mechanics, and its hard to master….so likewise someone who wants to play a charge right in melee is not gonna have clue what is going on.

The mesmer does not have anything special really, clones and teleports are what give people fits. You have to just Cntrl+T the mesmer and deal with him. I don’t have any problems with mesmers when I fight them. I know what they are doing, and what they can do. So I can anticipate and prepare. The problem people are having with mesmers is they don’t even know what they do, or how they do it.

Some of these complaints are outright ridiculous.

That’s a lot of kittens there Mr. DangerMonkey.

He is obviously dangerous.

And a monkey

I don’t see Guardians as OP. I might be a bit biased as I play one, but I found Tome of Courage as the only “OP” ability we have.

I’m mad bro

the only possible OP things thieves have is haste (when used with other abilities) and thieves guild

Wolfe.3097:

street fighter 4, when the new chars came out (forget ther name, two kids) everyone cried OP, everyone played them, tourneys were filled with them. did they nerf them? no, few months went by, counters were found, tricks were learned, they were overcome, diversity was restored.

Yun was cleary OP, his brother Yang was more or less balanced. The tournaments for that period were getting to the point you’d get like half Yun players, and the rest was chars that were good against Yun XD And then, they got nerfed. Hard. Yun is more or less balanced now but the poor Yang got caught in the nerf storm too and is counted as very overnerfed.

haha i thought of this as well. Seems arena net didnt get rid of the holy trinity at all! Just replaced one with the other : D

DangerMonkey.3158:

No class in this kitten game is over-powered. Guardians, mesmers and thieves have a lower skill cap then the other classes, so when some one GOOD at this game uses them, it SEEMS op. Because we have the hot-join, which is full of trashcan scrub nobodies, the players with any skill whatsoever trainwreck these nerds all kitten day. Then the nerds come here and cry nerf, because they dont have the skill to play their own class well.

I play a full dps thief glasscannon, w/e and I faceroll through hotjoins all day everyday, no matter what class, this isn’t because thief is OP, it’s not because the classes I’m smashing are UP, it’s because they are bad and I am good.

I’m kittenin sick to death of these terrible kitten threads. I’ve come across elementalists (YES, THAT SO CALLED UNDERPOWERED DUMPSTER CLASS) necromancers and engineers who have full on buttfu.cked me into oblivion, because, you guessed it! THEY LEARNT TO kitten PLAY THEIR kitten CLASS YOU DUMB kitten.

ugh.

If you stop using a grand total of 2 different buttons and 3 seconds to get kills, maybe you’d learn to play as well.