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Posted by: Deimos Tel Arin.7391

Deimos Tel Arin.7391

“this game is safe to leave”
“everyone may exit to the pvp lobby”
“no ladder points are deducted”

why are 4 vs 5 games still allowed to start?

i am talking about players who somehow disconnect right after the map vote roulette.

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Posted by: Justin ODell.9517

Justin ODell.9517

PvP Server Programmer

Next

“this game is safe to leave”
“everyone may exit to the pvp lobby”
“no ladder points are deducted”

why are 4 vs 5 games still allowed to start?

i am talking about players who somehow disconnect right after the map vote roulette.

Oh my, that just isn’t correct.

If the match gets confirmed, which happens before map vote, they will take a ladder hit (and dishonor, if enabled) if they are not present when the instance starts.

Once you hit confirm, you are locked in.

Server Programmer (sPvP)
Isle of Janthir: Flux, Latch, Aegir

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Posted by: Deimos Tel Arin.7391

Deimos Tel Arin.7391

“this game is safe to leave”
“everyone may exit to the pvp lobby”
“no ladder points are deducted”

why are 4 vs 5 games still allowed to start?

i am talking about players who somehow disconnect right after the map vote roulette.

Oh my, that just isn’t correct.

If the match gets confirmed, which happens before map vote, they will take a ladder hit (and dishonor, if enabled) if they are not present when the instance starts.

Once you hit confirm, you are locked in.

yes, 4 players confirm and are locked in.

but their 5th member somehow got disconnected and failed to get back in for the whole duration of the match.

and match prediction says the 4 players are supposed to win the match.

justin, that is wrong.

:(

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Posted by: Jelzouki.4128

Jelzouki.4128

“this game is safe to leave”
“everyone may exit to the pvp lobby”
“no ladder points are deducted”

why are 4 vs 5 games still allowed to start?

i am talking about players who somehow disconnect right after the map vote roulette.

Oh my, that just isn’t correct.

If the match gets confirmed, which happens before map vote, they will take a ladder hit (and dishonor, if enabled) if they are not present when the instance starts.

Once you hit confirm, you are locked in.

Moreover, why has daily necromancer only appeared twice since the patch?

http://strawpoll.me/3648686/r Queue for PvP from any map. Vote Here. Zojoel [ASAP Zerg]

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Posted by: Justin ODell.9517

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Justin ODell.9517

PvP Server Programmer

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yes, 4 players confirm and are locked in.

but their 5th member somehow got disconnected and failed to get back in for the whole duration of the match.

and match prediction says the 4 players are supposed to win the match.

justin, that is wrong.

:(

It will not go to map vote until all 10 confirm. If their 5th member confirmed, disconnected, and was for some reason not able to enter then that’s another issue entirely.

Either way, right now it is not safe to leave as you will take a desertion loss.

Server Programmer (sPvP)
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Posted by: Justin ODell.9517

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Justin ODell.9517

PvP Server Programmer

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Please don’t derail this thread, and start a new thread if one hasn’t already been created.

Server Programmer (sPvP)
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Posted by: Deimos Tel Arin.7391

Deimos Tel Arin.7391

yes, 4 players confirm and are locked in.

but their 5th member somehow got disconnected and failed to get back in for the whole duration of the match.

and match prediction says the 4 players are supposed to win the match.

justin, that is wrong.

:(

It will not go to map vote until all 10 confirm. If their 5th member confirmed, disconnected, and was for some reason not able to enter then that’s another issue entirely.

Either way, right now it is not safe to leave as you will take a desertion loss.

i know.

i mean, why can’t we make it behave like how dota 2 works?

in dota 2, if one member has abandoned the game during the early phase of a match, that match is not accounted for. all 9 remaining players in both teams can leave the match early, will not count as an abandonment.

in guild wars 2, if one player has deserted the match before it even began, did not even log into the match instance for the whole match. the 4 remaining players are expected to win the match, or else they suffer a massive ladder points loss.

if “this game is safe to leave” cannot be implemented, then at least fix the match prediction aye. 4 players cannot possibly win 5 players unless the mechanical skill levels and builds have a very wide gap.

i hope i am not asking for too much.

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Posted by: Errant Venture.9371

Errant Venture.9371

I think the point the OP is going at is that: fairly often you’ll get the scenario where a match will be formed but 1 player will leave before the match starts or early in the match. The team with 4 players faces a situation where it is very, very , very unlikely for them to win the match, yet their prediction for match victory is still based on the original 5 players. The 4-player team is very likely to lose ladder rank despite facing a practically un-winnable match.

Ladder rank changes based on match-outcome predictions should be made based on the players present at the end of the match or there should be no rank change for the losing team if they played man-down for more than 2 minutes of the match.

The Battle Bakery [vPie]

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Posted by: style.6173

style.6173

“this game is safe to leave”
“everyone may exit to the pvp lobby”
“no ladder points are deducted”

why are 4 vs 5 games still allowed to start?

i am talking about players who somehow disconnect right after the map vote roulette.

Oh my, that just isn’t correct.

If the match gets confirmed, which happens before map vote, they will take a ladder hit (and dishonor, if enabled) if they are not present when the instance starts.

Once you hit confirm, you are locked in.

It would be better if you ran another check AFTER the map selection.

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Posted by: Justin ODell.9517

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Justin ODell.9517

PvP Server Programmer

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It would be better if you ran another check AFTER the map selection.

Map selection is so quick, I’m skeptical about how much that would improve things, if at all.

I’ll look at the data and see if I can figure out just how often people confirm but leave during the vote. As well as how many games start with a player missing.

Server Programmer (sPvP)
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Posted by: Solstice.1097

Solstice.1097

well the first 1:30 or so it says “waiting for players” so one would think that if not all players show up, the match would not begin?

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Posted by: Errant Venture.9371

Errant Venture.9371

It would be better if you ran another check AFTER the map selection.

Map selection is so quick, I’m skeptical about how much that would improve things, if at all.

I’ll look at the data and see if I can figure out just how often people confirm but leave during the vote. As well as how many games start with a player missing.

He means after the map has been chosen and people load into the game. The majority of times i’ve had seen a case 4v5 have been when the last player simply never shows up for the map or DCs before the game starts. TBH i think if a game starts with a 4v5 or if a 4v5 persists for more than 2 minutes the 4-man team should not lose ladder rating.

It’s simply not reasonable to expect a team playing down a person for 2 minutes to have any chance of victory.

The Battle Bakery [vPie]

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Posted by: Justin ODell.9517

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Justin ODell.9517

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It’s simply not reasonable to expect a team playing down a person for 2 minutes to have any chance of victory.

I tend to agree. I’ve seen people suggest a grace period of 2 minutes, and that seems far too long to me.

I think something like 15-30 seconds is better, keeping in mind that you reconnect to the game before you finish loading and you may persist for a few seconds before the game registers the disconnection.

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Posted by: Errant Venture.9371

Errant Venture.9371

It’s simply not reasonable to expect a team playing down a person for 2 minutes to have any chance of victory.

I tend to agree. I’ve seen people suggest a grace period of 2 minutes, and that seems far too long to me.

I think something like 15-30 seconds is better, keeping in mind that you reconnect to the game before you finish loading and you may persist for a few seconds before the game registers the disconnection.

That sounds very reasonable to me.

The Battle Bakery [vPie]

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Posted by: Morwath.9817

Morwath.9817

It’s simply not reasonable to expect a team playing down a person for 2 minutes to have any chance of victory.

I tend to agree. I’ve seen people suggest a grace period of 2 minutes, and that seems far too long to me.

I think something like 15-30 seconds is better, keeping in mind that you reconnect to the game before you finish loading and you may persist for a few seconds before the game registers the disconnection.

For me its a bit longer: You DC, you restart entire client (because it won’t you reconnect), you authorize login, you login, you start loading back, takes sometimes a bit more than just 30 seconds.

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Posted by: Justin ODell.9517

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Justin ODell.9517

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For me its a bit longer: You DC, you restart entire client (because it won’t you reconnect), you authorize login, you login, you start loading back, takes sometimes a bit more than just 30 seconds.

It’s certainly possible that some number of people wouldn’t be able to make some limit, but you also have to balance it against the impact it has on your team’s chances of succeeding.

The longer the grace period, the more potential damage to the teams odds of winning.

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Posted by: Novuake.2691

Novuake.2691

Matches in GW2 PvP are also a LOT shorter than Dota2, so can not really compare.

I also rarely have issues with leavers in Ranked these days.

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Posted by: Dwaynas Avatar.1562

Dwaynas Avatar.1562

For me its a bit longer: You DC, you restart entire client (because it won’t you reconnect), you authorize login, you login, you start loading back, takes sometimes a bit more than just 30 seconds.

It’s certainly possible that some number of people wouldn’t be able to make some limit, but you also have to balance it against the impact it has on your team’s chances of succeeding.

The longer the grace period, the more potential damage to the teams odds of winning.

There is a specific kind of dc that only puts you back to loginscreen and you can instantly join in again, it happens a lot to me – could you somehow differ between this kind of dc and some other form of disconnecting and make the game instantly reconnect by itself and then give no penalty?
This would at least fix a lot of issues I and people I know have, maybe this one is easy to implement until you have a fix/idea/… for total dc’s which cause you to restart your client/pc/router/whatever…

all is vain – #BelieveInKarl – #EvanForPresident

(edited by Dwaynas Avatar.1562)

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Posted by: oneply.9586

oneply.9586

I tend to agree. I’ve seen people suggest a grace period of 2 minutes, and that seems far too long to me.

I think something like 15-30 seconds is better, keeping in mind that you reconnect to the game before you finish loading and you may persist for a few seconds before the game registers the disconnection.

idk if 30 sec is long enough but 2 min is way too long.

One Ply To Rule Them All
Bring PPK back to WvW!!!

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Posted by: GhOst.4019

GhOst.4019

For me its a bit longer: You DC, you restart entire client (because it won’t you reconnect), you authorize login, you login, you start loading back, takes sometimes a bit more than just 30 seconds.

It’s certainly possible that some number of people wouldn’t be able to make some limit, but you also have to balance it against the impact it has on your team’s chances of succeeding.

The longer the grace period, the more potential damage to the teams odds of winning.

Ye it must be balanced. It cannot be setup to ensure every player makes it back and doesn’t lose points. That is absurd. Anything longer than 30 seconds and the impact is too great. 40 seconds I might say is ok…..definitely NOT more than that. Soon as 1 guy is gone it only takes about 20 seconds for the other team to realize and begin the snowball. Triple cap inc. I say 30-40 seconds, no more & no less. There should be a grace period but not a very large one.

If you are taking a minute or 2 to log back in, we already hate you when you come back. That is way to long.

#1 Player Granada
#1 Player Comoros

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Posted by: Teutos.8620

Teutos.8620

I think something like 15-30 seconds is better, keeping in mind that you reconnect to the game before you finish loading and you may persist for a few seconds before the game registers the disconnection.

I really like that idea. When I thought about it, I always missed the point, that you actually have already reconnected before you have finished loading.

Great idea!

EU – Multiple times #1 SoloQ pre Dec 2014 (pure MMR based ladder)
Primoridal (S1) & Exalted (S2) & Illustrious (S3) Legend

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Posted by: oneply.9586

oneply.9586

Ye it must be balanced. It cannot be setup to ensure every player makes it back and doesn’t lose points. That is absurd. Anything longer than 30 seconds and the impact is too great. 40 seconds I might say is ok…..definitely NOT more than that. Soon as 1 guy is gone it only takes about 20 seconds for the other team to realize and begin the snowball. Triple cap inc. I say 30-40 seconds, no more & no less. There should be a grace period but not a very large one.

If you are taking a minute or 2 to log back in, we already hate you when you come back. That is way to long.

is there a way for the system to reconginize whether the dc happens before the match starts or after? if so, dc before match starts, have until game starts to reconnect (so what 1:30 or so), if during the match limit it to the 30sec or less.

but at same time, i would still rather have them come back. had a match where our 5th dc’d took him almost 3 min to come back, the game tied back up at 400ish each and we managed to win cause he came back. luckily i had a smart pug group and we just held 2 points as best we could while he was away. and the best part, no one gave him grief for it.

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Posted by: Solstice.1097

Solstice.1097

I think the 1:30 “waiting for players” part of the match should not count towards the grace period allowed. if you were DC’ed the entire 1:30 but showed up right when the match actually began, it shouldn’t count against you (or in the first X seconds of the match).

also, part of me feels that there should be no such thing as dishonor for a full team of 5 pre-made. if their ally DC’s much they can choose not to queue with that person? the intention of dishonor does not really apply to a pre-made team imo.

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Posted by: Morwath.9817

Morwath.9817

If you are taking a minute or 2 to log back in, we already hate you when you come back. That is way to long.

Thats why I don’t come back, because I already have -points.

Don’t get me wrong, if I don’t benefit from win same as everyone else from my random team, why would I even want to come back and win?

(edited by Morwath.9817)

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Posted by: NeXeD.3042

NeXeD.3042

If you are taking a minute or 2 to log back in, we already hate you when you come back. That is way to long.

Thats why I don’t come back, because I already have -points.

Don’t get me wrong, if I don’t benefit from win same as everyone else from my random team, why would I even want to come back and win?

You could minimize the loss, do you enjoy playing this game only for the leaderboard?

Attention Moderators I am not
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Posted by: Morwath.9817

Morwath.9817

You could minimize the loss

Not that I care much, when I feel already penalized for something I wouldn’t be penalized in any other game and I don’t consider it fair… since it’s Anet fault – other games reconnect me instantly after like 1-2 seconds while GW2 logouts me completly.

I think there should be ability to pause game (1 minute, like it was in WC3 when one of players disconnected) per team to deal with such situations instead of punishing players for something thats not their fault, or just accept it as part of the game if Anet servers can’t handle reconnects well.

do you enjoy playing this game only for the leaderboard?

Don’t get me wrong, but when I play ranked in any game which has rankeds I usualy play such mode for any kind of ladder points game has, even if those points are or will be meaningless due to amount of games I play (not enough to get even in #1000 with my daily amount of games).
Things looks a bit different when I’m playing with friends, but well, most of people I knew already left GW2 long time ago so I solo Q only.

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Posted by: Justin ODell.9517

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Justin ODell.9517

PvP Server Programmer

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also, part of me feels that there should be no such thing as dishonor for a full team of 5 pre-made. if their ally DC’s much they can choose not to queue with that person? the intention of dishonor does not really apply to a pre-made team imo.

This would not be the case. Only the leaver(s) would get dishonor.

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Posted by: oneply.9586

oneply.9586

If you are taking a minute or 2 to log back in, we already hate you when you come back. That is way to long.

Thats why I don’t come back, because I already have -points.

Don’t get me wrong, if I don’t benefit from win same as everyone else from my random team, why would I even want to come back and win?

You could minimize the loss, do you enjoy playing this game only for the leaderboard?

Nexed remember that thread from yday about toxic behavior…..

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Bring PPK back to WvW!!!

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Posted by: Solstice.1097

Solstice.1097

also, part of me feels that there should be no such thing as dishonor for a full team of 5 pre-made. if their ally DC’s much they can choose not to queue with that person? the intention of dishonor does not really apply to a pre-made team imo.

This would not be the case. Only the leaver(s) would get dishonor.

Thanks, however what i meant was if you are in a pre-made team of 5 people who are CHOOSING to play with you, then the dishonor system itself isn’t necessary to apply to that scenario. We don’t need dishonor in a scenario where you get to choose your teammates.

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Posted by: Justin ODell.9517

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Justin ODell.9517

PvP Server Programmer

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Thanks, however what i meant was if you are in a pre-made team of 5 people who are CHOOSING to play with you, then the dishonor system itself isn’t necessary to apply to that scenario. We don’t need dishonor in a scenario where you get to choose your teammates.

You and your friends may decent and honorable people, in which case the system wasn’t designed for you and shouldn’t affect you.

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Posted by: Solstice.1097

Solstice.1097

I just swapped toons while I was waiting for queue. When i logged back in the queue had popped and the accept/cancel screen was up with about 12 seconds left. i accepted.

since the class i played as was different than the class i queued as, does this mean it is

A) i get penalty even though i accepted the queue as the class i was on
B) i unintentionally discovered a possible exploit of the (future) profession balance system
or C) somehow the queue popped after i was logged in as that character but still in loading screen which was probably about 8 seconds long and that’s why i saw 12 seconds left on the accept/cancel screen

??

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Posted by: Justin ODell.9517

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Justin ODell.9517

PvP Server Programmer

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I just swapped toons while I was waiting for queue. When i logged back in the queue had popped and the accept/cancel screen was up with about 12 seconds left. i accepted.

since the class i played as was different than the class i queued as, does this mean it is

A) i get penalty even though i accepted the queue as the class i was on
B) i unintentionally discovered a possible exploit of the (future) profession balance system
or C) somehow the queue popped after i was logged in as that character but still in loading screen which was probably about 8 seconds long and that’s why i saw 12 seconds left on the accept/cancel screen

??

A) No, you only get a penalty if you fail to enter the instance or leave it.

B) There is a bug, which will likely be fixed on the 13th, that prevents players from really leaving the queue. This includes the automatic queue leaving that happens when you log out or change maps.

C) Possibly.

TL;DR
You can change professions due to a bug, as long as you do it before confirming a match.

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Posted by: tamzooka.5637

tamzooka.5637

Justin, especially since we are forced to remain on the profession we queued with – I really think it is now necessary to add some sort of build presets to enable us to fill certain roles our team may be short of.

This will help ease the pain of not being able to swap toons to fill a certain niche on the fly.

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Posted by: Solstice.1097

Solstice.1097

I just swapped toons while I was waiting for queue. When i logged back in the queue had popped and the accept/cancel screen was up with about 12 seconds left. i accepted.

since the class i played as was different than the class i queued as, does this mean it is

A) i get penalty even though i accepted the queue as the class i was on
B) i unintentionally discovered a possible exploit of the (future) profession balance system
or C) somehow the queue popped after i was logged in as that character but still in loading screen which was probably about 8 seconds long and that’s why i saw 12 seconds left on the accept/cancel screen

??

A) No, you only get a penalty if you fail to enter the instance or leave it.

B) There is a bug, which will likely be fixed on the 13th, that prevents players from really leaving the queue. This includes the automatic queue leaving that happens when you log out or change maps.

C) Possibly.

TL;DR
You can change professions due to a bug, as long as you do it before confirming a match.

thank you for the quick reply! good to know you are aware of it

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Posted by: Wonderly.1324

Wonderly.1324

Thanks, however what i meant was if you are in a pre-made team of 5 people who are CHOOSING to play with you, then the dishonor system itself isn’t necessary to apply to that scenario. We don’t need dishonor in a scenario where you get to choose your teammates.

You and your friends may decent and honorable people, in which case the system wasn’t designed for you and shouldn’t affect you.

I kind of see where Solstice is coming from. Dishonor is necessary if there is at least even one pug member, but it can be argued that the system should always be disabled for full teams of five because it is not necessary. After all, if you rage quit on your friends (or even if you constantly d/c on them) that’ll act as it’s own dishonor system (no one will want to q with you anymore).

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Posted by: Justin ODell.9517

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Justin ODell.9517

PvP Server Programmer

I kind of see where Solstice is coming from. Dishonor is necessary if there is at least even one pug member, but it can be argued that the system should always be disabled for full teams of five because it is not necessary. After all, if you rage quit on your friends (or even if you constantly d/c on them) that’ll act as it’s own dishonor system (no one will want to q with you anymore).

I see it too, but desertions on the other team will hurt as well if we decide to ignore the results when the losing team has desertions. I could easily see some group of players purposely leaving to deny the other team a win.

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Posted by: uberkingkong.8041

uberkingkong.8041

Is it really ‘safe’ to leave?
As in, did they flip the switch on the dishonor button and turn it on?

They talk and talk about that feature but never implement it.
Its like the developers talking about how they gave you a new zone, but they don’t allow you to enter it. Such tease!

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Posted by: Solstice.1097

Solstice.1097

I kind of see where Solstice is coming from. Dishonor is necessary if there is at least even one pug member, but it can be argued that the system should always be disabled for full teams of five because it is not necessary. After all, if you rage quit on your friends (or even if you constantly d/c on them) that’ll act as it’s own dishonor system (no one will want to q with you anymore).

I see it too, but desertions on the other team will hurt as well if we decide to ignore the results when the losing team has desertions. I could easily see some group of players purposely leaving to deny the other team a win.

Maybe denying points due to an enemy dc’ing should be re-thunk.

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Posted by: Becka Williams.4978

Becka Williams.4978

I think the only fair thing to do is make disconnections that last less then 20 seconds not count. If I can be “dead” for 20 seconds, and not have it hurt my team, surely being disconnected for less than that can’t hurt my team either?

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Posted by: SoulSin.5682

SoulSin.5682

I think the only fair thing to do is make disconnections that last less then 20 seconds not count. If I can be “dead” for 20 seconds, and not have it hurt my team, surely being disconnected for less than that can’t hurt my team either?

“Hey mate, we are losing! Take that ethernet cable off so I won’t lose points!”
by: Randon ranker playing PvP with guildies