[thoughts on SotG vid] PVP strats and maps.

[thoughts on SotG vid] PVP strats and maps.

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Posted by: FluffyDoe.7539

FluffyDoe.7539

[SotG Vid] What?
I’ve just watched the state of the game video (released feb. 7), and I’ve got no idea what Mr. Peters meant by “if you’re down 3-0 you’re easily the worse team, because it takes making a lot of mistakes to be down 3-0”.

I think the unclarity to this statement is simply that you can argue many ways against it and be right. For example, what if team just lost 3-2, 4-3, 1-0 in a sports game? For example, when the Seattle Seahawks lost to the Atlanta falcon did they make lots of mistakes? [answer = no], but they did make 2 crucial mistakes with 30 seconds to go.

The point I’m making is that it’s actually the quality of the mistakes that matters, not the quantity of the mistakes (in real competitive games at least). That is why most strategic game today can be lost or won even when the other team is down 3-0; like in league of legends (which Anet is practically copying their ranking system off… please – don’t even say it’s secret (ANet), because we all know that the core of League’s ranking system is rock solid, there is no where to differentiate a better competitive rank system away from league’s).

[GW2 PvP Strats.] Does strategic mistakes actually exist in the game?
In league’s PvP system, a strategic mistake can be clearly identified just by common sense, while in GW2 it’s hard to differentiate what I did wrong in PvP other than from: ‘oh, i died’.

A large part of the issue (IMO) has to do with the flaws in GW2’s PvP strats. system~

For example, any roaming assassin in league knows not to go into enemy territory without vision ( assassin class is design to be good 1v1 and kitten in teamfight… it’s suppose to be a class that require lots of skills to pick off a single player especially those around teammates). But in GW2, I see roamers picking off players easily 1v1 all day and are uncatchable even if another player is directly next to the assassin’s victim (no boundary to harrassments).

[Map Contentions] Are the places away from cap points actually important?
Every corner in a PvP map is suppose to matter in some way to at least one team on either side. In GW2 they made the maps overly massive and complicated structurally to a point that sometimes players gain advantage from the terrain but most of the time they fight on top ‘zero-purpose structures’ (ie. anything 50 feet away from a cap point or contestable structure). Players had to assume (although it may be a solid fact now) that fighting near cap points will give you the maximum benefits over your terrains, because right after each fight ends near a cap point the live players can immediately contest/cap that points.

Since most fights tends to happen beside cap points, thus most of the time PvP players neglects (naturally) the majority of map resources. It also means that players have to worry frequently about "travel time vs. point capture efficiency " <- which is the most boring part of any game. This is a flawed PvP gameplay concept, where the gameplay in PvP does not progress or ‘speed up’ as time passes, and rather the PvP gameplay forces players to always retrack themselves as they spawn all the way back at their team base (has this change from what it was 1 month ago? If so then you can scrap this point – but if this is still the case…)______If players don’t spawn at the points they capture then there is no directional progression at the game, there is only ‘scoreboard progression’ which is exactly like basketball where you basically leave if it’s a blowout, or come back during the last 4 mins of the game to check the final scores (because the baskets will be scored on both sides continously so nobody knows which team will win early in the game.) Likewise, capping the point happens a lot during a PvP match, and players from opposite team constantly recap the same cap-points [it’s not as progressive as destroying a towers; if they’re destroyed they’re out of the game permanently]).

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In conclusion (without ranting further more), I believe GW2 needs to really take more care of its PvP maps (especially the new one that’s coming up) in terms of making sure players has 100% usefulness of the terrains wrt. gameplay progression (in GW2 I think that’s simply about point caps). And do something about single player harrassments in the game…. don’t make PvP into a poke-fest (usually a ‘gimick playstyle’ for most competitive PvP games).

I don’t know what the solution is to having so much ‘useless land in PVP’…. but yah, that’s also one thing that I love about league: is that as the towers go down in league the size and usefulness of the map terrains increases (ie. those jungle bushes right across from the base walls become extremely useful 30mins+ into the game, or baron becomes ‘the place to fight’ also later in the game).

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(edited by FluffyDoe.7539)

[thoughts on SotG vid] PVP strats and maps.

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Posted by: daydream.2938

daydream.2938

He means If you get triple capped. And thats somewhat true, to be triple capped you have had to make a major mistake. I dont know if it makes you the worse team per se. Ive been triple capped and come back to win. also ive been triple capped, respawned and managed to triple cap the other team.

Also, i think your talking alot bout league of legends, which is a totally different game.

(edited by daydream.2938)

[thoughts on SotG vid] PVP strats and maps.

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Posted by: nerva.7940

nerva.7940

I actually have no kittening clue what this thread is about

Ikiro – 80 Ranger
Umie – 80 Guardian
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgLbWtvtzdU0Ho0zto6VnTQ

[thoughts on SotG vid] PVP strats and maps.

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Posted by: Mssg.7804

Mssg.7804

wt hell is this?

[thoughts on SotG vid] PVP strats and maps.

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Posted by: Disclude.7416

Disclude.7416

like in league of legends (which Anet is practically copying their ranking system off… please – don’t even say it’s secret (ANet), because we all know that the core of League’s ranking system is rock solid, there is no where to differentiate a better competitive rank system away from league’s).

Actually they are using a different system. League uses the Elo ranking system while GW2 is using the Glicko ranking system. They are different, but either way, you act like League of Legends is the first game to use any ranking system, which they not, they’re also not the first game to even use the Elo ranking system..so you’re wrong already..

I’m not going to even comment on rest of your thread, because it was quite ridiculous and not a lot of it made sense..

[thoughts on SotG vid] PVP strats and maps.

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Posted by: FluffyDoe.7539

FluffyDoe.7539

like in league of legends (which Anet is practically copying their ranking system off… please – don’t even say it’s secret (ANet), because we all know that the core of League’s ranking system is rock solid, there is no where to differentiate a better competitive rank system away from league’s).

Actually they are using a different system. League uses the Elo ranking system while GW2 is using the Glicko ranking system. They are different, but either way, you act like League of Legends is the first game to use any ranking system, which they not, they’re also not the first game to even use the Elo ranking system..so you’re wrong already..

I’m not going to even comment on rest of your thread, because it was quite ridiculous and not a lot of it made sense..

The only difference between the Glicko ranking system and ELO ranking system (in a general system) is how they write their ranking forumlas…. but in my post I was actually referring to Mr.Peters’ comments about “we might do single que rank, duo que ranks, etc..”, this comment shows that they’re still far behind in terms of setting up a good rank system but they’re afraid to tell the public that; because there’s no way in the world GW2’s ranking formula would leave out the variable to describe representation of team coordinations (ie. 5 man que, 4 man que solo que, (x) player ques, etc). Assuming they have to collect data to create a function’s relationship wrt. this variable therefore Anet will probably not be accounting proper que # into matching, which will mean that the rankings would be terrible ".

Plus the PvP gameplay would still be bad because with the way Anet is designing PvP maps they’re doing it totally wrong (= making huge PvP maps with tons of areas being irrelevant to cap points).

EDIT: Glicko formula has inputs of more complex and wide range of variables while the ELO formula usually just look at the functions associated with mainly Wins and Losses.

UPDATE: The original post has been divided into sub-topic in order to separate the individual feedback points.

(edited by FluffyDoe.7539)