Guild Wars 2

you don’t see why people like jorse, avitori, Hao Hai Zi are always rotating between top1~50 of soloQ? if soloQ was just a gamble or luck, why or how these people always keep themselves within top50? (and they play games few or many times in a week as well.)cuz there must be skills and they are actually performs better when it comes to solo(not pre-organized) than teamQ(pre-organized). ok? at least it means they performs better than you when it comes to all random and everything are not organized. Getting into top100 in soloQ isnt important at all. however, keeping your rank within top100 in soloQ is extremely harder. and people i listed above can do that and those people who can keep their ranks within top100 for a long time are really actually only few people among only top100 people. plz understand your skill and game plz. at least tell me your opinion if you can keep your rank within top100 for a month by playing soloQ everyday. GG

getting into too100 is meaningless. you could get into top100 by luck or something. however, keeping within top100 for more than few weeks by playing EVERYDAY is harder. That’s why many soloq top pvpers, except people i mentioned above whose names are Jorse avitori Hao Haiji, usually avoid playing since they archiving highest rank of them. what they do is like playing only 1 time in a week or month and get their rank back to leaderboard. How sad it is. it is likely almost CHEATING behaviour. This is what anet should do some on changing soloq system. however, soloq runs fine if you just ignore LESS EXPERIENCED BUT LUCKY people whose entire game match had is like less than 200 but within top1000.

it is just simple.

if you do good on teamQ, it means:
you are pretty good when you are supported and when you feel intimacy. ok you are sociable.

if you do good on soloQ, it means
You are lonely wolf. You performs better than others when everything look undetermined and not organized. You don’t need parent’s support however you can do well alone.

if you good at both, it means you got doctor’s degree in guildwars 2 ok?
gg

It is just pure luck.

I’m not saying I’ve killed these guys everytime I’ve seen them but I’ve definitely remember josre he is a legit staff ele, 1v1 he is killable but he has sustain enough to last for another of his teammates.

When I see players with 1,000+ games holding ~55% win ratio means something to me.

Of course 1000 and 55% are arbitrary numbers, that’s generally where I personally draw my line for a good portion of games to judge by and a significant percent difference above that which should be expected.

Pure luck…………………….

Well in any matchmaking where you are teamed with random allies there is some degree of luck, it is amplified by such a shallow player base for this game. However after a largish number of games 200+? individual skill shines through and is displayed in win% To me people with 60%+ are good and everyone else gets carried.

It is pure luck! nothing else!

I press random buttons and it works just as well.

^ __ ^

edit: I lied. I actually eat lucky charms while playing.

yeah. getting into too100 is meaningless. you could get into top100 by luck or something. however, keeping within top100 for more than few weeks by playing everyday is harder. That’s why many soloq top pvpers, except people i mentioned above whose names are Jorse avitori Hao Haiji, usually avoid playing since they archiving highest rank of them. what they do is like playing only 1 time in a week or month and get their rank back to leaderboard. How sad it is, anet should change system entirely.

It’s really RNG, because there are so many factors that come into play. You have a chance of getting a 4v5, unfavorable compositions, and just players who don’t know what they’re doing. Solo Queue still needs much work, same goes with the rest of this game. In Solo Queue you can stand your ground, but it isn’t enough if half your team is clueless, lacks player skill, and knowledge.

Kitt.2567:

yeah. getting into too100 is meaningless. you could get into top100 by luck or something. however, keeping within top100 for more than few weeks by playing everyday is harder. That’s why many soloq top pvpers, except people i mentioned above whose names are Jorse avitori Hao Haiji, usually avoid playing since they archiving highest rank of them. what they do is like playing only 1 time in a week or month and get their rank back to leaderboard. How sad it is, anet should change system entirely.

Nicely explained

So basically, those just started playing early enough to get highranked and then stopped playing.

And I mean… you even can slightly manipulated queue for solo arena to get in same game as your buddy, most of the time even same team.

No, leaderboard says absolutely nothing. It’s a bad bad bad joke, has been broken forever, will remain broken because… well… anet.

Wasn’t there a thread earlier about someone making a new account to test the leaderboards? They went like 1-11 and got in the top 5. Leaderboards are absolutely broken.

Kitt.2567:

yeah. getting into too100 is meaningless. you could get into top100 by luck or something. however, keeping within top100 for more than few weeks by playing everyday is harder. That’s why many soloq top pvpers, except people i mentioned above whose names are Jorse avitori Hao Haiji, usually avoid playing since they archiving highest rank of them. what they do is like playing only 1 time in a week or month and get their rank back to leaderboard. How sad it is, anet should change system entirely.

Keeping top 100 is easy, but the problem is queue times.

Due to the low population and at least half of top 100 being people with not even 50 wins results in waiting in excess of 8 mins or at most 15 mins for a match to pop.

After 5 minutes it is largely accepted by most of the people at top 50 that matchmaking will just try to find a match for you, which results in getting a queue with people not even top 1000.

After waiting the 5 min mark it is largely accepted that the chances of winning go into a 50/50 chance. So if you wanted to tryhard and always be on top 20 you would queue, if the timer passes 5 mins, cancel, and re-queue, this will ensure you always play (somewhat) even matches and still stay top 50.

Pibriamal.8719:

Wasn’t there a thread earlier about someone making a new account to test the leaderboards? They went like 1-11 and got in the top 5. Leaderboards are absolutely broken.

than read again

this thread is not bout some 15 game people or even 100 games played
its about people with 1000+ games and more with a winrate 55% or more

soloQ leaderbaord is not broken or a gamble – you just have to learn to ignore the lower than 200 games played people

and yes to have 55%+ win lose with over 1k games, or be in top 100 for MONTHS, need alot skill and it is ALL ABOUT YOU – you have to carry and can´t be carried from your team like in teamQ or just be carried by teamspeak with team vs randoms

im not good enough for this (and i even to old for this^^) but when you ever played games in soloQ with Super(from carcrash), Rom, Sizer, TheChamp and some others than you would know it is possible to carry hard in this game …. and this people are not in top-leaderboard just cause they had luck … they are good .. and not only by playing there class good or playing there role good … they know whats going on on the map and can adapt to situations much better than other peoplez

If I wanted to win most of my matches, I know exactly what build I’d play. But because I want to have fun, I always play builds that probably won’t always give me wins.

Dirame.8521:

If I wanted to win most of my matches, I know exactly what build I’d play. But because I want to have fun, I always play builds that probably won’t always give me wins.

and this has to what with this thread?

Kitt.2567:

Getting into top100 in soloQ isnt important at all. however, keeping your rank within top100 in soloQ is extremely harder.

Lulz I get into the top10-20 easily, peace out, rank drop and come back to snag a couple wins and I’m right back where I started.
#yuprealhardbro.
I am clearly dabes.

Not to burst anyone’s bubble here or anything, but most of the players I see on leaderboards now weren’t even close to being in their position even a few months ago. I would guess over 80% of the good players that played this game before have now quit and as a result the new “top” moves up into place. Solo Q is now, more than ever, a meaningless charade between two teams composed of one semi-decent player and four bad ones on either team.

bethekey.8314:

Solo Q is now, more than ever, a meaningless charade between two teams composed of one semi-decent player and four bad ones on either team.

That has nothing to do with new players moving to the top. It has everything to do with the current system matching ppl who are deep in the percentages (in MMR aswell) with ppl who are in the top 100. Really good players taking breaks or playing less makes the situation even more obvious, since the system matches ppl regardless of how far apart they are in MMR.

Youll see guys who are literally fresh of the boat and have nfc how to play in the same games as guys that have been playing pvp this game for 2 years. Guys that have been winning ESL tournament, the ToL or Pax … Why do these veterans need to play rated games with guys that play their 1st pvp game ever?

The system makes no sense and does the direct opposite of what an MMR system should be doing.

Romek.4201:

Dirame.8521:

If I wanted to win most of my matches, I know exactly what build I’d play. But because I want to have fun, I always play builds that probably won’t always give me wins.

and this has to what with this thread?

He’s right. Skill does play a part in your wins/losses.

Dirame.8521:

He’s right. Skill does play a part in your wins/losses.

Its a bit of everything. Partially luck, skill and experience.

So, presuming at least 500 games played:
Under 50% win rate – below average player
50-55% win rate – Decent player
55-60% win rate – Good player – capable of playing at the highest level of team queue probably in a good comp with good tactics.
60-65% win rate – Very good player – probably top 50 EU
65-70% win rate – Exceptional player – probably only 20-25 of these players
70%+ win rate – Exceptional player who synced lolz

And trust me, being highly rated in solo q is no fun. It is long queue times whilst all the 30-200 ranked people get matched together and you are stuck waiting in the mists. And then when you play troll builds to try and lose and lower your rating you get flames from your team. Great community.

Lordrosicky.5813:

And trust me, being highly rated in solo q is no fun. It is long queue times whilst all the 30-200 ranked people get matched together and you are stuck waiting in the mists. And then when you play troll builds to try and lose and lower your rating you get flames from your team. Great community.

Its clear to see you havent played soloq a lot as of late. The matches filled with 30-200 ranked players are a myth these days even during peak hours. They only way to do that is by sync queueing with 5-10 ppl.

If you dont its more like this :

1 x top 50
1 x top 200
1 x top 900
2 random low percentage dudes.

During my first three games on this new US account i fought Caed, Hiba, and Kensuda. If i check my screenshots from my main accounts i see the same trend; totally new players matched with ppl who have been topping the leaderboard for the last two years.

supvil.3470:

Lordrosicky.5813:

And trust me, being highly rated in solo q is no fun. It is long queue times whilst all the 30-200 ranked people get matched together and you are stuck waiting in the mists. And then when you play troll builds to try and lose and lower your rating you get flames from your team. Great community.

Its clear to see you havent played soloq a lot as of late. The matches filled with 30-200 ranked players are a myth these days even during peak hours. They only way to do that is by sync queueing with 5-10 ppl.

If you dont its more like this :

1 x top 50
1 x top 200
1 x top 900
2 random low percentage dudes.

During my first three games on this new US account i fought Caed, Hiba, and Kensuda. If i check my screenshots from my main accounts i see the same trend; totally new players matched with ppl who have been topping the leaderboard for the last two yeras.

^ this. Anet removed the lvl of the players in the scoreboard but you’ll still recognize newbs.

Ranking has nothing to do with rating -.-

I have NEVER seen anyone actually carry a whole team.
Three people carrying two baddies… yes… way too often… but ONE carrying FOUR others? Nope.

Kitt.2567:

if you do good on soloQ, it means
You are lonely wolf.

l0l

even worse, the leaderboards are so bugged, they’re hardly something to go by to judge skill, there are people with less than 40 games and a shabby win rate on the leaderboards.
25th – 19 wins 21 losses
26th – 14 wins 10 losses
72th – 10 wins 8 losses
thats just a quick glance at the first 2 pages.

Liewec.2896:

even worse, the leaderboards are so bugged, they’re hardly something to go by to judge skill, there are people with less than 40 games and a shabby win rate on the leaderboards.
25th – 19 wins 21 losses
26th – 14 wins 10 losses
72th – 10 wins 8 losses
thats just a quick glance at the first 2 pages.

why people dont read op?^^

op is not talking bout some 12-40 games played snowflakes – he talk bout people with 1000+ games

ignore everyone lower than this and leaderboard is working

Yes Solo que is all a gamble. Although if you are really skilled you have better chances to win, and I’m sure those guys in top 50 are there for a reason. I say if you made top 250 than your doing it right.

I played quite a few soloQ matches in 2 weekend sessions, probably around 30 or so after a long break. I used to be in the above 95% bracket in soloQ and I played euro time day/night.

Out of these 2 sessions, 1 was a long losing streak (the kind that can make you lose faith in mankind) and the other one a nice winning series. As for the quality of the matches, I would say that a good half of them were one sided, one way of the other, and not very interesting. Therefore I would be inclined to say that:

1/ if you’re good you’re going to carry the team and make a difference in your team’s performance.
2/ but your individual skills matter less than the original gap of skills between the 2 teams.

The problem here is that the quality of the matches (as opposed to just the result) is decided by a pairing algorithm that leaves too much room to luck (or so it seems based from my plays).

Higher ranks are matched with other higher ranks, as well as sync queuing.

Due to 4v5s and the ranking system putting you with the occasional scrub, yes it is luck. Losses are far too dramatic. You can have a huge winstreak undone by a single 4v5 or unlucky matchup.

Playing outside of peak hours is one of the best ways to avoid the better players and is the tactic of a lot of people who attempt to keep their leaderboard ranks high.

Rolyate.6753:

Higher ranks are matched with other higher ranks, as well as sync queuing.

Due to 4v5s and the ranking system putting you with the occasional scrub, yes it is luck. Losses are far too dramatic. You can have a huge winstreak undone by a single 4v5 or unlucky matchup.

Playing outside of peak hours is one of the best ways to avoid the better players and is the tactic of a lot of people who attempt to keep their leaderboard ranks high.

Id say its the other way around. If you play during off hours the difference between teams is often so big that no matter how good you do…youll still lose.

Things like these (attachement) happen way too often and it shows that leaderboard-ranking is at least 50% luck based on maps, played class, team matchups, 4v5, afkers and so on.

Would you say I’m a noob based on the 6 looses on one day? Would you say I’m a pro because of the 7 wins in a row? I was lucky yesterday with the team-compositions – I could almost certainly say before the start of the matches that my team would win. Based on these wins/losses (and the resulting ranking) one can’t really say that I was the the factor that caused the losses or these wins and if I’m a good or a bad player.
My win-ratio is stable at about 55% but still I’m jumping up and down more than 500 ranks a week due to good or bad luck.

Let me tell you why that happens.
As you had consecutive wins, it means your rank definitely goes higher right?

Then you will be matched with people around your rank, whose ranks are also higher. It means they are HARDER to win. that consecutive wins never happens but you lose. Therefore, it means you are kinda NOT QUALIFIED to become a higher rank. that’s what happened to you. you were like the one threatening noobs, but it didnt work on higher ranked people. GG

Every people experience afk guy, 4vs5, teaming with noobs stuffs. Since it affect people samely, that shoudln’t be excuse to make people not to play soloQ. and like i said, real skilled people like Jorse, Hao actually can keep themselves within top100 regardless of that luck or bad luck happens. so it means they are qualified to become top100 in real.

Gorni.1764:

Things like these (attachement) happen way too often and it shows that leaderboard-ranking is at least 50% luck based on maps, played class, team matchups, 4v5, afkers and so on.

Would you say I’m a noob based on the 6 looses on one day? Would you say I’m a pro because of the 7 wins in a row? I was lucky yesterday with the team-compositions – I could almost certainly say before the start of the matches that my team would win. Based on these wins/losses (and the resulting ranking) one can’t really say that I was the the factor that caused the losses or these wins and if I’m a good or a bad player.
My win-ratio is stable at about 55% but still I’m jumping up and down more than 500 ranks a week due to good or bad luck.

Kitt.2567:

Let me tell you why that happens.
As you had consecutive wins, it means your rank definitely goes higher right?
Then you will be matched with people around you, whose ranks are also higher. It means they are HARDER to win. that consecutive wins never happens but you lose. so it means you are kinda NOT QUALIFIED to become a higher rank. that’s what happened to you. you were like the one threatening noobs, but it didnt work on higher ranked people. GG

You’re assumung that I’m matched against equally skilled players only at a higher ranking? If that would be the case I’d also have to be matched against similar skilled players at lower ranking, making these win-streaks theoretically impossible (yet, they happen very often, as I already said). That’s why – in my opinion – luck and other factors like the day-time you’re playing seem to be more important than skill in terms of ranking.
Or how would you explain these win-streaks, when you say that I’m too bad to play up there? Since I’m not the ultra-pro player carrying the whole team the only explanation left would be luck – and that’s my point.

And I also had these win-streaks at rank 100-150 placing me at ~40 at the end of the day, or 9-9 at rank ~100 (that’s how it should be). So I also wouldn’t say that I’m not qualified to play up there.

You yourself said that "getting into too100 is meaningless. you could get into top100 by luck or something. "
I didn’t say that all of the players up there don’t deserve to be there but you also said that most of them are there because they avoid playing or by lucky win-streaks – that’s why in general the leaderboard is meaningless.

Funny someone mentioned team comps. I’ve only been playing PvP for two days. I’ve only had an 80 in this game for two days. Needless to say, I suck pretty bad. I’m a Thief that gets absolutely slaughtered by Mesmers which from what I’ve read shouldn’t happen. Though I am running D/D just because I like it. Anyway, yesterday I got put on a team of ALL thieves. I sat on a point while the rest of them just annihilated the other team. We won 500-5. Though I don’t know if I should say we since I didn’t do kitten

I have 1v1’d a few ppl, Warrior(s), Ele, Necro but they were probably just as bad as I am lol. I’m slowly getting better though. Should probably go S/D or P/D but I just enjoy D/D.

Illustrating why the soloque ranking are Completely Random;
Last weekend I decided to learn DEEPS GUARD in soloque, I was at a pretty good rank, anywhere from 50 to 350, now needless to say I lost about 7 games in a row and tanked my own rating, but I also tanked the rating of people who did not deserve to have their ratings tanked.

Now;
There’s a bunch of people with inflated rankings (people who didn’t deserve the wins) out there, Tanking the ratings of other people who don’t deserve to have their ratings tanked,

There’s also a bunch of people are Sand-bagging with rank well below what it should be. Will they come up for air? or will they get tanked further because of unquantifiable badness that happends below 300~ on the leaderboards?

How many people like me are out there that will tank people’s ratings in soloque? Hundreds.

What are the chances of you getting one or three of them on your team?
Completely random.

Didn’t you see from my original thread saying about, “Hitting top100 isn’t important but keeping yourself within top100 is extremely harder”? If I were you, I would only say I am qualified top100 only if I can keep this rank that is within top100 for more than a month by playing at least 5 rounds in one week. I wouldnt say that I am qualified only becuz i hit them before.

Nah wjatever.
If you are satistified with that experience, that’s fine too though.

Gorni.1764:

Kitt.2567:

Let me tell you why that happens.
As you had consecutive wins, it means your rank definitely goes higher right?
Then you will be matched with people around you, whose ranks are also higher. It means they are HARDER to win. that consecutive wins never happens but you lose. so it means you are kinda NOT QUALIFIED to become a higher rank. that’s what happened to you. you were like the one threatening noobs, but it didnt work on higher ranked people. GG

You’re assumung that I’m matched against equally skilled players only at a higher ranking? If that would be the case I’d also have to be matched against similar skilled players at lower ranking, making these win-streaks theoretically impossible (yet, they happen very often, as I already said). That’s why – in my opinion – luck and other factors like the day-time you’re playing seem to be more important than skill in terms of ranking.
Or how would you explain these win-streaks, when you say that I’m too bad to play up there? Since I’m not the ultra-pro player carrying the whole team the only explanation left would be luck – and that’s my point.

And I also had these win-streaks at rank 100-150 placing me at ~40 at the end of the day, or 9-9 at rank ~100 (that’s how it should be). So I also wouldn’t say that I’m not qualified to play up there.

You yourself said that "getting into too100 is meaningless. you could get into top100 by luck or something. "

Darnis.4056:

What are the chances of you getting one or three of them on your team?
Completely random.

pretty much this.

@Kitt: I didn’t disagree with your post. I just meant that when you take a look at the current scoreboard (I should’ve mentioned that) and don’t follow it over large periods of time it’s pretty much meaningless because of this randomness. I’d rank myself somewhere between 200 and 250 (that’s where I am on average), however most of the time I am above or below that ranking. Just one day not playing and the decay drops my rank by ~70 …

That’s why I think the leaderboard needs a rework.

There is a chance of 5 people being bad on the enemy team and there is only a chance that 4 people are bad on yours… (if you’re saying that you’re no bad) so in that case u will lose some but win more

On the other hand. I totally agree on the remake of leaderboards it works really bad now…

Seiishizo.7162:

There is a chance of 5 people being bad on the enemy team and there is only a chance that 4 people are bad on yours… (if you’re saying that you’re no bad) so in that case u will lose some but win more

If that was the only factor it would be ok. But there are 4v5s, bad team compilations (yesterday I played against a team with 4 necros and 1 ranger … GG), trolls, people playing with alts that they can’t play as well as their mains or trying new builds, afkers and so on.

Its a bit of a gamble due to horrible system. Ever seen an MMR system that is worse in an online pvp game? I personally havent and i played 20-30 at least. Its comical how bad the systems are in this game.

Lopez.7369:

The MMR system isn’t different from other games. The problem is the competitive PvP population is too low, which can really screw up any MMR system.

I think what’s strange about this discussion is how so many people point out the so-called luck factors, like bad comps and 4 vs. 5 matches, without understanding that they become a statistical wash after dozens of matches.

Just think of it this way: Everyone has those problems. Everyone gets a match in which his or her team is just terrible or one guy isn’t even there. How is it, though, that some people manage to rise despite those problems? The answer, in general, is they’re just better. That’s what the leaderboards measure. They show players who in the long-term rise to the top because they can carry teams and overcome those luck factors, while worse players just can’t.

Exactly, the only common denominator in all of anyone’s matches is themselves.

Lopez.7369:

The MMR system isn’t different from other games. The problem is the competitive PvP population is too low, which can really screw up any MMR system.

I think what’s strange about this discussion is how so many people point out the so-called luck factors, like bad comps and 4 vs. 5 matches, without understanding that they become a statistical wash after dozens of matches.

Just think of it this way: Everyone has those problems. Everyone gets a match in which his or her team is just terrible or one guy isn’t even there. How is it, though, that some people manage to rise despite those problems? The answer, in general, is they’re just better. That’s what the leaderboards measure. They show players who in the long-term rise to the top because they can carry teams and overcome those luck factors, while worse players just can’t.

I feel like its 50% luck, 40% Counter comping, 10% player skill.
Some people only play their one or two classes in soloque their Warrior or their backpoint duel build.

They don’t do FOTM fun stuff like Power ranger, Zerker Staff Ele, or Deeps Guard and they only play when they know they have an advantage in ques.

Que time over 5 minutes? Time to unque.

For most people though they don’t care enough about their soloque rank, as it’s pretty meaningless at this point.

Oh By the way

Username Character Wins Loses Wins % Server
1 pssst.2507Tesmu Nanananana 10 6 62.50 Dragonbrand

Okay well, I disagree.
Soloque punishes gameplay and rewards Sitting on Accumulated ranks.
The more matches you play; the higher the chances of going down
It rewards Match Fixing; Dodging Long Ques because of fear of Poor matchmaking mechanics, and Sync queing.
It rewards playing troll unviable builds which rely on poor communication.

As far as I’m concerned it’s a better indicator of activity rather then player skill at this point.

Knowing how to tip the factors in your favor is worth way more then player skill, and no just because the playing field is “level” it does not prove skill.

I’d believe solo Q is broken if I saw ostrich hovering around 50% on the LB. Fancy that he’s been in top ~2% since release.

I’m just using him as an example whom I know nothing about, simply becaues all of the top players on my friends list are never in the ’s which is roughly the bottom 95

Lopez.7369:

Except, under your estimate, every player deals with that 90 percent, so it becomes a statistical wash over time. The only changing variable is that 10 percent slotted to player skill. That’s why good players rise to the top, while bad ones don’t.

Couldn’t say it better myself.

See this is why its a gamble.

Game was like 150 to 395, 2 people disconnect, gameover 500 to 475.

kittening bullkitten, they should have a timer for people who dc to come back.

When you get crap games like that in kittening rows, theres nothing you can do about it.

You are commenting without reading any of the stuff we have said about why instances like that become trivial after enough games are played :/ It isnt a gamble the best players will rise and stay at the top and the average ones will bounce between top100-1000.

Actually, that doesnt really matter Zirith, because he makes a nice point

You can talk statistics all day long, but what your subjective FEELING is after playing 1000 games, is determined by the amount of frustrating situations vs good situations.

It doesnt matter that everybody experiences those frustrating situations.

Statistically speaking, out of 10 games, “only” 2 games are 4v5 for me. But those 2 games are what will stay foremost in my mind.

Let’s take a look at 10 standard games:
2 out of 10: 4v5 situations
1 out of 10: enemy teamcomp unbeatable with own teamcomp
3 out of 10: skyhammer
4 out of 10: getting paired with newbies

That makes, solely subjectively: 10 bad games. It doesnt matter that you actually win some of those. Your feeling will keep on insisting, that at least the majority of spvp games are bad. Sometimes I look at my own statistic and think “wow, I actually won that many games?”
Why am I posting this? Because this “feeling” you get is what starts the “luck” rumor.

But you know… this whole topic wouldnt be an issue at all if:
Anet solved 4v5 situations by simply replacing the disconnect/afk fast.
Anet solved the teamcomp problem by removing op builds.
Anet solved the skyhammer situation by removing it from solo queue.

A solution for experience difference between players you get paired with might be to simply design bigger maps and do 8v8 or 10v10. More people → less skill difference.