Guild Wars 2

That is a huge “KITTEN YOU” aimed right at Mesmer. Combined with Well of precog now being basically worthless ( auto attacks will destroy the aegis almost instantly ) It makes Chronomancer essentially defenseless to thieves. Who, btw, are getting a major damage upgrade.

So I ask again, ANET.. why do you hate Mesmers?

Oh look, basi venom is now worthy of being called an elite. For the longest time Mesmers had a better signet than our “elite”. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Domination

Have you watched the Pro Leagues? It’s the most boring thing I have ever seen. 15 minute 1v1s. 8-10 min average before a point is even capped. And mesmers are a big part of this considering every team has to have 2 to even be competitive. It’s not mesmer hate it’s making the game less boring to play. I mean I like that classes can play a bunker but when it is all about dat bunker then something needs to change to make bunkers and zerkers viable.

Bunker chrono needed a nerf and thief needed a buff, my concern is that the changes (at least so far) don’t seem to favor mesmer. They make well of precog aegis, a block, they buff sceptor, which uses block, removed blindness, which is counterplay to thief.

These are just my thoughts and just gotta see how it plays out, but I hope there’s a healthy rivalry between the two classes instead of being thief bait or mesmer bait

OH I forgot to mention, venomous aura shares the unblockable attack with nearby teammates. So not only does well of precog become worthless ( auto attack will end aegis in considerably less than 1 second ) but shield is worthless as well.

Anet has essentially gutted the shield and removed almost all of Chronomancer defense if there happens to be a thief nearby. Really bad move anet.. clearly little or no forethought unless the goal was to kick Mesmer to the curb.

Patch hasn’t drop’d yet & already mesmers are scared of thieves lmao

Hell, my main is a guard and i’m considering abandoning shelter now.

Hannibal.5739:

Patch hasn’t drop’d yet & already mesmers are scared of thieves lmao

Reminds me when OP cele D/D ele’s were nerf’d

Instant tears lol “WHAT, I CAN’T BE INVINCIBLE ANYMORE? kitten THIS GAME!”

It’s an elite skill for crying out loud… Giving it anything but unblockable kind of undermines the point of it being an ELITE skill…

Ithilwen.1529:

That is a huge “KITTEN YOU” aimed right at Mesmer. Combined with Well of precog now being basically worthless ( auto attacks will destroy the aegis almost instantly ) It makes Chronomancer essentially defenseless to thieves. Who, btw, are getting a major damage upgrade.

So I ask again, ANET.. why do you hate Mesmers?

The block no longer defends against the elite. That doesn’t mean it can’t be used to block regular attacks, or that the stun can’t be dodged or evaded.

It’s not like basilisk venom can counter the block either… A 1 sec block can’t be countered by an unblockable interrupt with a 1 sec cast time.

I’m not “whining.” ANET has created a situation where a team can have 5 unblockable attacks, each of which can kill me outright on it’s own.

This destroys my defense against thieves, who were already able to one shot me. Now they have increased damage and I have almost no counter. It totally devalues the shield which had been a major asset to chronomancer.

In the bargain, it destroyed my primary defensive slot skill. They disingenuously try to pretend it’s only a “nerf.” The reality is that attacks come so fast that aegis is basically meaningless.

As to “take a bit of talent,” I’m in my fourth year of playing Mesmer.. anet has done everything in it’s power, short of banning Mesmer to slap it down to trash tier.

The funny part is that they’re nerfing revs sword auto because it does too high a damage and yet thief sword has nearly the same coefficient 0.85 vs 0.8 on first attack respectively.

Though I will say the rift AoE does bring the Rev ahead. I do agree that sword for thief needs to be more fluid but ANet does need to be careful. If they’re making it 30% more damage (seems to be a 30% reduction to time take to do 1 full chain) you’re gonna be seeing similar damage to what a rev is currently hitting you with but in 1.75s, which is less than a rev takes now by a considerable margin.

I guess we shall see in the full preview.

Source.

Wow, frankly, an elite on a 42s CD, with a long cast time and then a clear icon on the bar, it’s not the end of the world. It just makes it a viable alternative to Impact Strike.

style.6173:

Ithilwen.1529:

That is a huge “KITTEN YOU” aimed right at Mesmer. Combined with Well of precog now being basically worthless ( auto attacks will destroy the aegis almost instantly ) It makes Chronomancer essentially defenseless to thieves. Who, btw, are getting a major damage upgrade.

So I ask again, ANET.. why do you hate Mesmers?

Stop whining. You don’t even know all the changes in the release yet. We get it. You are used to playing a class that is completely OP and want to keep playing it that way.

Soon mesmer will actually take a bit of talent again. That’s good.

Unfortunately, I don’t see it happening. Mesmer will be all about portal and elite skill. It already is like that besides the obnoxious bunker spec.

This class is completely kittened. I will probably quit playing it.

tell that to the thieves who whine about moa with one of the longest CDs in the game. Sorry , I’m not buying it. ANET deliberately made mesmer thief food.

Think about it; major damage boost when thief could already insta kill me as a mesmer given a clear shot, sharing that major damage with any teammates present. and if I don’t die immediately, I have very poor condi cleanse so I’ll die of the poison stacks.

Y’all whine about passives? this is a 1 button automatic mesmer kill. Thanks a kitten anet.

Of course all the thieves are happy, one meta that they were not part of, Anet grants the wish and put them right back in there. Anet just have it out for Mesmers, just cant have a good thing for long.

You are talking as if memser has no defense besides blocks. No evades, stealth, blinds, invuln, whatever, … right?

I don’t mind if it is unblockable, but then they need to raise the cooldown to 120 seconds to balance it out.

You’re all missing the point. We should all welcome the necro overlords for the next pvp season!

Rome.7124:

Of course all the thieves are happy, one meta that they were not part of, Anet grants the wish and put them right back in there. Anet just have it out for Mesmers, just cant have a good thing for long.

Yeah right, Anet wants to nerf their only unique profession to the ground.

You’re missing the point here. I main mesmer and thief, and bunker mesmer was bad for the game, not only for thief, but also for shatter mesmer. Mobile bunkers can not be a thing in conquest.

Also, why is everyone saying that the basi venom buff will be the end of mesmer? Mesmer has ONE block on one weaponset, and I would bet that most mesmers will be back to playing sword/torch GS shatter next month, so unblockable attacks won’t frighten us anymore.

What about the fact that improved CC/damage still does not protect thief from all of the AoE conditions, CC, and generally huge damage that other classes can deal. Just because thief can counter 1 chrono spec does not suddenly make it viable in PvP. It can still be destroyed by almost every other class among equally skilled players. I find it hilarious that as soon as chronobunker is exposed to some form of counterplay, people claim that Anet hates chronomancers. You may have been able to roll your face on the keyboard before, but now the class can finally take some measure of skill to play. Anet themselves said that they were dissatisfied with the bunker meta. Let it fall.

runeblade.7514:

I don’t mind if it is unblockable, but then they need to raise the cooldown to 120 seconds to balance it out.

lol wut

Ithilwen.1529:

OH I forgot to mention, venomous aura shares the unblockable attack with nearby teammates.

Time to learn how to use a stun break? Venom charges can still be dodged. Knowing how to dodge and stun break used to be a requirement of a skilled pvp player before the rampant power creep. Venom share is only advantageous in a team fight. 1v1 means the thief has wasted a grandmaster trait.

Though I play thief main, I’ve never been a fan of venom share. Shadow arts, and the time spent csating venoms does not play to the decap / +1 roles. However, is there something inherinately wrong about thief playing a support spec?

I will admit that I think daredevil / staff are overtuned – but they compensate somewhat for the bad state of core thief. Core thief was starting to really struggle in competitive games after the June specializations patch.

Mirror of anguish.

Also dodge, blind, etc.

You think I can dodge 5 attacks? Every one of which will either kill me outright or kill me by poison ticks? ANET kittened all over Mesmer and replaced it with thief. If having a short invulnerability that prevents point capture is so bad..

Then why is a god mode single hit kill that can’t be stopped ok?

I am quite dissatisfied about the decision they made on this one, cos Anet balance team has lack intellectual capabilities around thief and never expect the day shall come that Thief would have a working Elite skill yet nothing wrong on BV to begin with. Buff? really? because some of the few doesn’t have the skill.

And if truth be told, we don’t even need an Elite spec to compete with. stop dumbing down your own masterpiece Anet.

pepper.6179:

runeblade.7514:

I don’t mind if it is unblockable, but then they need to raise the cooldown to 120 seconds to balance it out.

lol wut

I said, I don’t mind if it is unblockable, but then they need to raise the cooldown to 120 seconds to balance it out.

Ithilwen.1529:

You think I can dodge 5 attacks? Every one of which will either kill me outright or kill me by poison ticks? ANET kittened all over Mesmer and replaced it with thief. If having a short invulnerability that prevents point capture is so bad..

Then why is a god mode single hit kill that can’t be stopped ok?

No need to dodge 5 times. If 5 people get Basilisk and all attack you, one dodge will invalidate most if not all of the stacks. And backstab is very easy to both predict and to stop. Honestly, sword 2 will probably be enough to let you ignore BV, not to mention other distortion, blind, etc.

5 attacks? No it will be 10. 2 charges x5 = 10. But you are delusional if you think any spec should be allowed to bunker vs 5 people.

2v1 is doable vs venomshare, but guess what? You need to play skillfully :O. Its also worth noting that 1 dodge will usually consume all the venom charges due to multi hit attacks. This means either 2 dodges, or 1 dodge and a stun break.

You forgot 1 thing- when you choose to go for shadow art for the venom share you lose a hell lot of damage. I can’t see why would anyone take it besides venom share builds. Also, mesmers should be the ones with the easiest time dealing with it- stunbreak, use one of your evades/invulns, etc…

Ok for one venomshare is a GM trait in Shadow Arts, so the thief is missing out on damage. Second the radius isn’t that big so you’re probably not going to share with more than one or two others. Three the stun doesn’t stack in duration so if you have 3 people attacking with it it probably won’t last longer than 3 or so seconds. four you can avoid it with stability, blur, dodge, and blind. five if you do get hit just use your stun breaker.

This isn’t some overpowered change, it just makes BV worth taking over Impact Strike in some situations.

Zodryn.4216:

not to mention other distortion

Be very careful stop giving them the idea of BV as an Elite skill will hit through Evasion when Traited. course some of you will not like it, as i do.

Ithilwen.1529:

That is a huge “KITTEN YOU” aimed right at Mesmer. Combined with Well of precog now being basically worthless ( auto attacks will destroy the aegis almost instantly ) It makes Chronomancer essentially defenseless to thieves. Who, btw, are getting a major damage upgrade.

So I ask again, ANET.. why do you hate Mesmers?

Get rekt memsers, don’t even play thief but I hope they all murder you

Ithilwen.1529:

You think I can dodge 5 attacks? Every one of which will either kill me outright or kill me by poison ticks? ANET kittened all over Mesmer and replaced it with thief. If having a short invulnerability that prevents point capture is so bad..

Then why is a god mode single hit kill that can’t be stopped ok?

The elephant in the room is that this person is upset because fighting 1vX will now be a losing battle for him, where X is greater than 1.

correct me if I’m wrong, I’m okay with being wrong. I’m just saying that’s the only way you’d have to dodge five burst damage attacks/condi dump, right?

Thief gets two unblockable hits. If you’re in a situation where venomshare puts you at a disadvantage and you do not have backup, then.. that should be par for the course.

I’ll also humor you once. Assuming that you are 1v1 and not 1vx, where you should lose anyway, you only have two attacks every 40 seconds that are unblockable, which you can dodge, loS, or blink away from, interrupt, spoil via skills like The Prestige, and the like. Most of these options are on a < 40 second cooldown.

Just playing better would remedy this situation, instead of pining over what I assume is the inability to bunker 1v2+. If this is a “I’m scared I’ll be focused” angle, The Prestige works for that too. As does decoy or anything that puts an object between you and your attacker(s).

I’m really disappointed that Thief received an auto death prevention trait. These sort of traits already make gameplay very boring because there’s this great big safety net for anyone using them. I expect Mesmer will receive a “get distortion when hit under 25% health” in the future <sigh>.

Also, dagger auto-attack and Basilisk Venom are absolutely fine (shockingly balanced – rare these days). Seem like the wrong target for buffs. Pistol auto-upgrade, Thieves Guild and Dagger Storm are far more in need of some buffs.

It’s a very bad idea to add unblockable to basilisk venom. How do you stop the steal + basilisk venom opening? Predict an instant cast with a dodge roll?

Alekt.5803:

It’s a very bad idea to add unblockable to basilisk venom. How do you stop the steal + basilisk venom opening? Predict an instant cast with a dodge roll?

Well you should already be doing this. Steal’s boon rip and daze already were dangerous enough for you to do this.

Aktium.9506:

Alekt.5803:

It’s a very bad idea to add unblockable to basilisk venom. How do you stop the steal + basilisk venom opening? Predict an instant cast with a dodge roll?

Well you should already be doing this. Steal’s boon rip and daze already were dangerous enough for you to do this.

Thieves primarily +1 fights so if you’re on point fighting and a thief comes with basilisk venom… Yeah free kill.

blakdoxa.7520:

Aktium.9506:

Alekt.5803:

It’s a very bad idea to add unblockable to basilisk venom. How do you stop the steal + basilisk venom opening? Predict an instant cast with a dodge roll?

Well you should already be doing this. Steal’s boon rip and daze already were dangerous enough for you to do this.

Thieves primarily +1 fights so if you’re on point fighting and a thief comes with basilisk venom… Yeah free kill.

I main Necro so I don’t have a block for the new Basilisk Venom to ignore to begin with. I’ve always had to blow a pre-emptive dodge as soon as the Thief gets in Steal range if I want to avoid getting hit by it.

It has come to a point in which I am not sure if OP is trolling or she simply is not good at PvP. If you are in a scenario in which 5 enemies are focusing damage onto you, is it balanced if you can actually survive the onslaught? In terms of a 1v1 against a thief using BV, even with the full stun duration of both BV attacks on you, the thief simply will not have enough burst potential to insta-kill you if it is running a build with any form of sustain. Maybe a full berserker thief running critical striking, trickery, and the offensive traits in Daredevil may be able to spike you down in that time frame, but this sort of build simply does not have enough sustain to work with all the current AoE damage and conditions. Anet specifically mentioned that only thief AAs would see a buff to damage because they wanted more sustained damage for thief. Their burst is not buffed with this patch based on the information given so far. None of this mentions the fact that you can stun break, interrupt, blind, and dodge. It’s quite literally an issue of skill at this point. You no longer have access to build based around passive damage mitigation and are actually required to use some form of thinking or strategy if you want to survive. Is there really something wrong with that?

Edit: Just as a side note, you are currently one of the two most desirable classes in the current PvP meta and you are complaining about a buff to one of the most least desirable classes in both competitive PvP and PvE. Is that logical?

If you says unblock basilisk is OP then look at necro aa3 scepter corrupts 1 boon
and now can corrupt 3 boons under 15 sec its worse than basilisk that stunned 2 sec under 40 if trait 32 sec
Thief has been underpowerd for long time its time for Thief to be viable again

and you guys already cry even patch doesnt even hit yet

You folks aren’t taking into account the 30% increase in thief damage. Steal ( with immob or daze ) → black powder ( with blind )→ heartseeker .. dead with no chance of block. That’s not counting the thief’s teammates.

GG anet you just kicked Mesmer out of the game. I think that was actually the goal.

Don’t worry though, thieves. You will soon hear the keening whine of “OP” from the very people in favor of this to screw over Mesmer now.

You won’t be able to keep from joyously killing every Mesmer in sight… of course it will take anet two or three years to pay attention… but when they do, you’ll feel the nerf hammer into irrelevancy too.

So what you’re saying is you shouldn’t be able to be +1’d and actually die? Yeah that’s a great argument…

And you have also missed the fact that in order to get the venom to share they have to use a whole traitline that probably wont do much for them outside of making them borderline useful in teamfights when large amounts of communication happen. You also seem to forget you have plenty of blinds from shatters and you have distortion plus instant cast stun breaking stealth. There is literally 0 reason for you to be complaining about this change. If a thief can 1 shot you then you need to play something other than full zerk cause that’s the only way they can 1 shot you unless you are just as bad as you make yourself sound with this silly thread.

Give it some time before you call Mesmer doomsday. Remember when everyone thought thief would be god mode back in the zerk meta and they were just decap bots? This is why you don’t make stupid assumptions based on what the current meta looks like or what a developer did to a practice dummy cause unless I’m mistaken, pretty much every player is better than the practice dummy or the moose.

Well if you really know how to play mesmer
well if you play right mesmer can 1 shot burst marauder thief SPvP
On the other hand Thief cant 1 shot mesmer in SPvP

Hahaha enjoy having to actually try now

official.7362:

Hahaha enjoy having to actually try now

funny how all Mesmers have “try” before the trait revamp in 2015 (you know when mesmers were hard counter by thieves across multiple metas), its the thief community that had it pretty good for while that couldnt stop crying when they are out of 1 meta. Dont worry, what comes around goes around, when thief buffs become nerfs I will surely enjoy every one of them in the coming months.

Ithilwen.1529:

tell that to the thieves who whine about moa with one of the longest CDs in the game. Sorry , I’m not buying it. ANET deliberately made mesmer thief food.

Think about it; major damage boost when thief could already insta kill me as a mesmer given a clear shot, sharing that major damage with any teammates present. and if I don’t die immediately, I have very poor condi cleanse so I’ll die of the poison stacks.

Y’all whine about passives? this is a 1 button automatic mesmer kill. Thanks a kitten anet.

Wtf…
Which thief would whine about moa? We love it!
I a regular match not a single decent mesmer would use moa on a thief. It gets used for bunker, quick important kills to decide a teamfight, etc.
And ya know…. the currently most used thief-build doesn´t has that much condi-cleanse, too. Shadowstep clears 2 on a 50sec cd and is the most important stunbreak.

From what you write I think you should sit down and think a bit if you maybe need to learn some stuff.

Ithilwen.1529:

You folks aren’t taking into account the 30% increase in thief damage. Steal ( with immob or daze ) -> black powder ( with blind )-> heartseeker .. dead with no chance of block. That’s not counting the thief’s teammates.

At the moment, neither Steal (via Mug), Black Powder or Heartseeker have been noted to be gaining any damage. The only damage buffs listed for Thief so far have been to their auto-attacks.

At the moment a zerk thief can flat kill me with the steal-> bp -> hs backstab combination if I fail to block it. Add to that doing it from stealth and an unblockable bassy venom that can be shared with teammates… that adds up to god mode insta kill for the thief.

ANET has removed the vast majority of my defense against that. Cheesy thieves inc.

Just you watch and see.

Ithilwen.1529:

At the moment a zerk thief can flat kill me with the steal-> bp -> hs backstab combination if I fail to block it. Add to that doing it from stealth and an unblockable bassy venom that can be shared with teammates… that adds up to god mode insta kill for the thief.

ANET has removed the vast majority of my defense against that. Cheesy thieves inc.

Just you watch and see.

the venom share can turn really aoe strong skills from other classes to be unblockable AoE :\