Guild Wars 2

Please change unranked back to the way it was, if i want to try and learn a new class, or test a build, i like to queue unranked, now whenever i queue i just get paired up and matched with players with thousands of games played on their class, esport players and get absolutely destroyed, having very little clue what im doing.
Queue hotjoins? okay then im fighting people that dont even have HOT and its a bad representation of the build or the class and how well im doing, not to mention kitten rewards.

I understand your feelings, and you have my sympathy. I’m not sure how mmr works for unranked, but it is still a good training ground even if i agree it can be frustrating. The only thing I hate are people raging and making unnecessary comments on map chat over unranked match where everyone is still grasping the new changes and testing new builds. But most people remain neutral and never complain, so it’s ok.

Evan Lesh.3295:

It sounds like you want profession-specific MMR? In order to do that, we would have to enforce a profession lock upon queuing. There is another thread advocating this idea with the benefit of removing profession stacking.

Having it being based on the proffession you queue as would solve the problem for me, but I feel like it might be solve everyones issue, some players might want to try a completely different build with a completely different weapon set \ traits, and even if it was the class they mained, they would still feel the fustration im sure.
I mostly play revenant and am trying to learn mesmer\druid, and i dont stand a chance against 90% of the players im fighting, i’m legendary division on revenant, but less then 10 games played on mesmer\ranger lol.

I also like the idea of being able to swap professions while inside the match, but I wouldnt be upset if that was changed.

Sure, do that. Why would anyone swap characters after loading the map anyway? Is there a reason for that which wouldn’t be cheating? If you want to swap characters, do it in the lobby.

Ohoni.6057:

Sure, do that. Why would anyone swap characters after loading the map anyway? Is there a reason for that which wouldn’t be cheating? If you want to swap characters, do it in the lobby.

+1

Class swapping is required if you play spvp with solo or duo queue and get unlucky with your team setup. It gives you a way to react to your teams composition and/or the enemy team’s. Locking this will create loopsided matches, making things like heavy condi setups extremely strong if the enemy team cant stack some aoe condi cleanse. This was just an example to show that swapping profession can be helpful, there are tons of other examples. If you are too ignorant to see the benefits of this then i doubt you understood the way spvp works.

If you need practice with a profession you are not good with and dont want to force your “weight” onto other players in a higher mmr bracket, you can play unranked arena.

Class swapping is required if you play spvp with solo or duo queue and get unlucky with your team setup. It gives you a way to react to your teams composition and/or the enemy team’s. Locking this will create loopsided matches, making things like heavy condi setups extremely strong if the enemy team cant stack some aoe condi cleanse. This was just an example to show that swapping profession can be helpful, there are tons of other examples. If you are too ignorant to see the benefits of this then i doubt you understood the way spvp works.

See what I mean? Should ANet allow this sort of attitude the set the pace for everyone else? Of course not. So yeah, put in class locking, and have the system judge “unbalanced” teams accordingly for matchmaking and reward purposes.

The result of a match making algorithm that does create “balanced” games is that the queue times go up. Also no matter what anet does, there will always be people that complain about the system.
I rather have the option to change the outcome of a match by switching professions instead of relying on anet to create “balanced” games for everyone.
No class stacking would still be a nice thing. But profession is not equal to the build they play, there are things your build counters and some that it doesnt counter and sometimes you need to switch or the whole match will be uneven. I dont think anet can come up with an algorithm that will really create fair games anyways.

Agrios.9071:

Class swapping is required if you play spvp with solo or duo queue and get unlucky with your team setup. It gives you a way to react to your teams composition and/or the enemy team’s. Locking this will create loopsided matches, making things like heavy condi setups extremely strong if the enemy team cant stack some aoe condi cleanse. This was just an example to show that swapping profession can be helpful, there are tons of other examples. If you are too ignorant to see the benefits of this then i doubt you understood the way spvp works.

If you need practice with a profession you are not good with and dont want to force your “weight” onto other players in a higher mmr bracket, you can play unranked arena.

It’s hard to practice in unranked arena as a new profession when your ranked mmr \ division carries over, aka the purpose of the thread.

Ohoni.6057:

Sure, do that. Why would anyone swap characters after loading the map anyway? Is there a reason for that which wouldn’t be cheating? If you want to swap characters, do it in the lobby.

Yes. Let’s say you queue as a thief but there’s already one on your team, then you switch it up. Or you could see that the other team has two of something that hardcounters what you’re on, so you switch to something that hardcounters them.

Yes. Let’s say you queue as a thief but there’s already one on your team, then you switch it up. Or you could see that the other team has two of something that hardcounters what you’re on, so you switch to something that hardcounters them.

Oh, I totally get why you’d WANT to do that, I just don’t see why they should allow it.

Let’s say you have your example, but you have an identical example on the other team, two thieves there too. But in your team, you have some other class that you’re good at, set up, ready to go, so you switch, and your team is stronger for it. On the other side, neither of the Thieves is well prepared to swap, they don’t have a useful alternative, so that team is stuck with two thieves. They are at a disadvantage. Why should they be stuck with the disadvantage of the matchmaking system, while you’re allowed to reset it?

The goal should be for the matchmaking system to limit that happening as best it can. If it does happen, however, that’s your bad luck, deal with it. It’s better than allowing teams to build unfair advantage like you describe.

As for your second case, that should be a risk you take. If the system is in general balance, then any build that can “hard counter” another, should be fairly weak when faced with other options. So if you choose to field a “hard counter” build, then you’ll randomly find matches where you have a huge advantage, and others where you have a huge disadvantage, high risk/reward. If you don’t wan that risk, you run with a more balanced build. You shouldn’t be able to offset the risk of an unbalanced build by being able to swap it out when it’s inconvenient, you should be stuck with it whether it’s ideal or not.

What if the algorithm was pushed a bit further to not stack professions, but any sort of team (duo-vs5) are ‘locked in’? From my understanding, this would make queues a bit longer based on the ‘no stacking rule’ for sub-5man comps, but maybe include an mmr leeway (team queues already have a base mmr increase right?).

I’m, admittedly not a programmer. Rather a 31-yo farmboy/butcher from the Midwest, so the ‘yes/no’ may escape me.

*Also, this post only regards matchmaking. ‘I have no idea what I’m doing, but the rewards aren’t good enough in HJs’ is hardly a reason for huge changes…

Ohoni.6057:

Yes. Let’s say you queue as a thief but there’s already one on your team, then you switch it up. Or you could see that the other team has two of something that hardcounters what you’re on, so you switch to something that hardcounters them.

Oh, I totally get why you’d WANT to do that, I just don’t see why they should allow it.

Let’s say you have your example, but you have an identical example on the other team, two thieves there too. But in your team, you have some other class that you’re good at, set up, ready to go, so you switch, and your team is stronger for it. On the other side, neither of the Thieves is well prepared to swap, they don’t have a useful alternative, so that team is stuck with two thieves. They are at a disadvantage. Why should they be stuck with the disadvantage of the matchmaking system, while you’re allowed to reset it?

The goal should be for the matchmaking system to limit that happening as best it can. If it does happen, however, that’s your bad luck, deal with it. It’s better than allowing teams to build unfair advantage like you describe.

As for your second case, that should be a risk you take. If the system is in general balance, then any build that can “hard counter” another, should be fairly weak when faced with other options. So if you choose to field a “hard counter” build, then you’ll randomly find matches where you have a huge advantage, and others where you have a huge disadvantage, high risk/reward. If you don’t wan that risk, you run with a more balanced build. You shouldn’t be able to offset the risk of an unbalanced build by being able to swap it out when it’s inconvenient, you should be stuck with it whether it’s ideal or not.

But the entire point is to minimize any luck factor involved. If the other side didn’t bother at least becoming proficient on another class then that’s on them. I have some tempest, druid, daredevil, and revenant proficiency but really prefer either daredevil or revenant or going druid if the team needs extra support. I have a dragonhunter and warrior too but never used them in PvP lately.

Also you’re given ample time before a match to make such decisions and generally get ready and if it were unintended I’m sure there’d be measures in place to prevent it.

Evan Lesh.3295:

It sounds like you want profession-specific MMR? In order to do that, we would have to enforce a profession lock upon queuing. There is another thread advocating this idea with the benefit of removing profession stacking.

YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES!

This would = Balance. For the love that is holy please at least test the idea.

Also you’re given ample time before a match to make such decisions and generally get ready and if it were unintended I’m sure there’d be measures in place to prevent it.

That’s what we’re talking here, putting in measures to prevent it.

Ohoni.6057:

Also you’re given ample time before a match to make such decisions and generally get ready and if it were unintended I’m sure there’d be measures in place to prevent it.

That’s what we’re talking here, putting in measures to prevent it.

Like I said the problem with it is luck enters more. Maybe prevent stacking but the only fair way to issue it is to bring about soloQ since premades have the advantage of a composition they know is good, which is especially strong against a random composition of classes that may be subpar and the different teammates have different ideas of how to start or play the game.

@Evan, in my humble opinion, we need tighter MMR grouping and longer unranked queues if necessary.

Extremely large skill discrepancy within teams

Like I said the problem with it is luck enters more. Maybe prevent stacking but the only fair way to issue it is to bring about soloQ since premades have the advantage of a composition they know is good, which is especially strong against a random composition of classes that may be subpar and the different teammates have different ideas of how to start or play the game.

There is no system they could present that would allow solo queue players to have a decent chance against a pre-made team. The advantages are just way too stacked against them. The only way to even come close would be to make it so that each solo member is rated as being significantly better than any of the pre-made members, like a team of solo diamonds against pre-made sapphires, anything short of that is just shuffling deckchairs.

Evan Lesh.3295:

It sounds like you want profession-specific MMR?

WTF!! I thought profession-specfic MMR was long ago implemented!! Oh my god what are you guys doing?!

Evan Lesh.3295:

In order to do that, we would have to enforce a profession lock upon queuing.

YES YES!! PLEASE!! Please lock the professions upon queuing! And don’t allow 2 players in same party with same class to be able to hit Ranked Play (gray out the button). And configure matchmaking so there are not repeated professions on each team. (not possible to reroll during start waiting time giving either direct desertion or gray out in character select screen those classes which are already in the team)

That would be sooo great! At least test it for a season or pre-season!!

Evan Lesh.3295:

It sounds like you want profession-specific MMR? In order to do that, we would have to enforce a profession lock upon queuing. There is another thread advocating this idea with the benefit of removing profession stacking.

People should be able to choose which classes they can reroll to when queing. A note wold say: Adding more professions decreases your queue time.
You could still stick to just 1 profession or you can say “I can play either thief or druid” etc.

This thread is a pretty good example of why player feedback is not always a good thing :/ lots of people who have no or little grasp of why something is problematic advocating it enthusiastically.

I agree it would be beneficial to have a space to practice new classes, but just re-implementing class locking in the current system and with all the problems it caused last time is unlikely to be the solution.

Locked class switching benefits only really 4 and 5 man premade teams that can abuse combinations that could normally easily be countered/reacted to. Also you keep forgetting that both sides can switch professions.

However there are obviously other issues. I think it is a big mistake that you can not play ranked arena between seasons and unranked should be a testing/training ground independed from ranked.

As a result maybe you shouldnt be able to relog in unranked while having that benefit in ranked arena. This would be a way to test it and see the benefits of the system and the flaws. Of course this requires ranked arena beeing availiable during non-season time but i dont see how thats a problem in the first place?

Evan Lesh.3295:

It sounds like you want profession-specific MMR? In order to do that, we would have to enforce a profession lock upon queuing. There is another thread advocating this idea with the benefit of removing profession stacking.

If you do something, make something hybrid.

Like you can’t switch to another current class of the roster to prevent class stacking. Hard to sync up. I guess a toon drop down list into the game server, would help to removing the time it take to load three times before switching. (one load for a switch should be enough!!!!)

The other part would be, you could switch with a profession-MMR to another profession that have a lower mmr than the one you queue up with.

So, at least, we would not be punished to lower our own MMR to switch to something more viable comp-wise.

What you want to prevent is having low mmr roster switching to high mmr one. For that, locking class switching it not the solution. You need to simply add a new validation class switching (disabling higher mmr toon on class selection) based on MMR to remove the abuse while giving the flexibility that you provide us. (i really appreciate and vote for Anet for their “intent” to let flexibility be something in the game).

To resume:

You need to ADD a new class switching mecanics into spvp. It need to be done into the game server only, to let you compare MMR and other class of the team.

Dal

Chaith.8256:

@Evan, in my humble opinion, we need tighter MMR grouping and longer unranked queues if necessary.

Extremely large skill discrepancy within teams

What we really need, is to have PRO league players mentoring other team as COACH to make more high MMR players.

Stop keeping all your secrets, share and let people evolved to get better matches.

Evan Lesh.3295:

It sounds like you want profession-specific MMR? In order to do that, we would have to enforce a profession lock upon queuing. There is another thread advocating this idea with the benefit of removing profession stacking.

Profession-specific MMR would be great.

As for preventing class stacking, I’m not sure it’s a good idea. It would hurt queue times significantly for a lot of players and it wouldn’t be entirely accurate, or fix the problem. For example, you’re aiming for build diversity with your balance patches, and classes like engineer and guardian do have builds more different than one could class as a variant, such as bunker guard, medi guard, bunker dragonhunter, marauder trap dragonhunter, bruiser engi/scrapper, marauder scrapper, pistol/shield condi engi, and marauder rifle engi. Some players even choose less viable builds differing from the roles you’d expect to see from their class, such as marauder elementalist/tempest. Such a system would treat a bunker guard the same as a medi guard, when having the two together wouldn’t necessarily be a problem – in fact, it’d be better than having a medi guard and a reaper in a team with already 3 other damage-build players.

An alternative would be a system to prevent role-stacking, such as determining role based on stats. For example, if they have more than the base healing power, then flag them as support, else if they have an amulet with toughness, then flag them as a bruiser, else if they have an amulet with condition damage, flag them as condition damage dealer, else flag them as direct damage dealer, and use these flags to put together a role-balanced comp. However, this would also hurt queue times, and would still not fix the problem, ultimately, because it would impose a comp-type in a game where the meta is meant to be able to shift freely by player discovery and developer balancing. So it could become out-dated in terms of the metagame, and give significant advantages to players queuing as a party of 3 or even 2.

Even when class swaping breaks match making euristics, the reason to keep this “score based on team class composition” was because not many players swap classes, this is fine for now, but I can see people adapting and learning to get advantages and this practice will become more common specially now that it’s being mentioned. Would be better to start thinking on a solution now rather than waiting for the problem to happen.

You can lock class switching (and that is something you really should do) but still allow trait/weapon/utility change too keep the possibility for players to adapt classes considering the team composition.

fumcheg.1936:

You can lock class switching but still allow trait/weapon/utility change too keep the possibility for players to adapt classes considering the team composition.

This is true; I’d forgotten to consider that possibility. However:

• People are stubborn
• They won’t necessarily know how to play a different build
• They might not even know a different build
• Players already like to have multiple characters of the same class with different builds on each for when they do need to switch, and preventing switching would prevent this. Allowing same-class character swaps would require a fair bit of designing and coding to work into what is already there, or, they would have to actually get around to build-templates (although, these are coming “soon,” right?)

Impact.2780:

fumcheg.1936:

You can lock class switching but still allow trait/weapon/utility change too keep the possibility for players to adapt classes considering the team composition.

This is true; I’d forgotten to consider that possibility. However:

• People are stubborn
• They won’t necessarily know how to play a different build
• They might not even know a different build
• Players already like to have multiple characters of the same class with different builds on each for when they do need to switch, and preventing switching would prevent this. Allowing same-class character swaps would require a fair bit of designing and coding to work into what is already there, or, they would have to actually get around to build-templates (although, these are coming “soon,” right?)

we are talking about how to solve class stacking problem, not how to make everyone happy…

I say, allow class swapping, but don’t let them pick a class that it’s already in the team. Everyone wins! … if they stack from beggining, algoritm deals with it.

fumcheg.1936:

Impact.2780:

fumcheg.1936:

You can lock class switching but still allow trait/weapon/utility change too keep the possibility for players to adapt classes considering the team composition.

This is true; I’d forgotten to consider that possibility. However:

• People are stubborn
• They won’t necessarily know how to play a different build
• They might not even know a different build
• Players already like to have multiple characters of the same class with different builds on each for when they do need to switch, and preventing switching would prevent this. Allowing same-class character swaps would require a fair bit of designing and coding to work into what is already there, or, they would have to actually get around to build-templates (although, these are coming “soon,” right?)

we are talking about how to solve class stacking problem, not how to make everyone happy…

We’re talking about class stacking problem in an attempt to make people happy… If you don’t want to be happy, then you don’t care for problems.

Impact.2780:

fumcheg.1936:

Impact.2780:

fumcheg.1936:

You can lock class switching but still allow trait/weapon/utility change too keep the possibility for players to adapt classes considering the team composition.

This is true; I’d forgotten to consider that possibility. However:

• People are stubborn
• They won’t necessarily know how to play a different build
• They might not even know a different build
• Players already like to have multiple characters of the same class with different builds on each for when they do need to switch, and preventing switching would prevent this. Allowing same-class character swaps would require a fair bit of designing and coding to work into what is already there, or, they would have to actually get around to build-templates (although, these are coming “soon,” right?)

we are talking about how to solve class stacking problem, not how to make everyone happy…

We’re talking about class stacking problem in an attempt to make people happy… If you don’t want to be happy, then you don’t care for problems.

I don’t care about making ppl happy. I care about solving the problem which has explicite negative impact on PvP. There are always be ppl who like to switch and stack classes in itself and you can’t make them happy by removing that possibilty.

fumcheg.1936:

Impact.2780:

fumcheg.1936:

Impact.2780:

fumcheg.1936:

You can lock class switching but still allow trait/weapon/utility change too keep the possibility for players to adapt classes considering the team composition.

This is true; I’d forgotten to consider that possibility. However:

• People are stubborn
• They won’t necessarily know how to play a different build
• They might not even know a different build
• Players already like to have multiple characters of the same class with different builds on each for when they do need to switch, and preventing switching would prevent this. Allowing same-class character swaps would require a fair bit of designing and coding to work into what is already there, or, they would have to actually get around to build-templates (although, these are coming “soon,” right?)

we are talking about how to solve class stacking problem, not how to make everyone happy…

We’re talking about class stacking problem in an attempt to make people happy… If you don’t want to be happy, then you don’t care for problems.

I don’t care about making ppl happy. I care about solving the problem which has explicite negative impact on PvP. There are always be ppl who like to switch and stack classes in itself and you can’t make them happy by removing that possibilty.

So you’re not people -.^?

Fistandanthilus.6824:

Evan Lesh.3295:

It sounds like you want profession-specific MMR?

WTF!! I thought profession-specfic MMR was long ago implemented!! Oh my god what are you guys doing?!

I was under the impression that we had profession specific mmr already as well. Pretty sure comments were made that this was a thing specifically so people could feel more comfortable trying new classes. Since you’re not likely to be awesome at it right out the door, and don’t necessarily want to be thrown into games at the proficiency levels of say, whatever you main.

I was also under the impression that class ‘locking’ would be coming eventually anyway. Given the comment that “if you queue as ‘x’ we find you a game based on ‘x’ class” having been made at one point.

Wonder if I can go find that conversation.

So confused….

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Fistandanthilus.6824:

Evan Lesh.3295:

It sounds like you want profession-specific MMR?

WTF!! I thought profession-specfic MMR was long ago implemented!! Oh my god what are you guys doing?!

I was under the impression that we had profession specific mmr already as well. Pretty sure comments were made that this was a thing specifically so people could feel more comfortable trying new classes. Since you’re not likely to be awesome at it right out the door, and don’t necessarily want to be thrown into games at the proficiency levels of say, whatever you main.

They made it, then turned it off before applying the patch with it, and since then as far as we know it’s been left. It might even still be untested for all we know.

I suppose this is the reason for it – that there is no class locking once your match is found.

Ohoni.6057:

Yes. Let’s say you queue as a thief but there’s already one on your team, then you switch it up. Or you could see that the other team has two of something that hardcounters what you’re on, so you switch to something that hardcounters them.

Oh, I totally get why you’d WANT to do that, I just don’t see why they should allow it.

Let’s say you have your example, but you have an identical example on the other team, two thieves there too. But in your team, you have some other class that you’re good at, set up, ready to go, so you switch, and your team is stronger for it. On the other side, neither of the Thieves is well prepared to swap, they don’t have a useful alternative, so that team is stuck with two thieves. They are at a disadvantage. Why should they be stuck with the disadvantage of the matchmaking system, while you’re allowed to reset it?

The goal should be for the matchmaking system to limit that happening as best it can. If it does happen, however, that’s your bad luck, deal with it. It’s better than allowing teams to build unfair advantage like you describe.

As for your second case, that should be a risk you take. If the system is in general balance, then any build that can “hard counter” another, should be fairly weak when faced with other options. So if you choose to field a “hard counter” build, then you’ll randomly find matches where you have a huge advantage, and others where you have a huge disadvantage, high risk/reward. If you don’t wan that risk, you run with a more balanced build. You shouldn’t be able to offset the risk of an unbalanced build by being able to swap it out when it’s inconvenient, you should be stuck with it whether it’s ideal or not.

You are 100% right. A-net needs to fix this stuff not the player base.

Jourdelune.7456:

Chaith.8256:

@Evan, in my humble opinion, we need tighter MMR grouping and longer unranked queues if necessary.

Extremely large skill discrepancy within teams

What we really need, is to have PRO league players mentoring other team as COACH to make more high MMR players.

Stop keeping all your secrets, share and let people evolved to get better matches.

Are you scolding me or something? Lots of pro players stream a ton and explain why or why not to do certain things in PvP

Ohoni.6057:

Class swapping is required if you play spvp with solo or duo queue and get unlucky with your team setup. It gives you a way to react to your teams composition and/or the enemy team’s. Locking this will create loopsided matches, making things like heavy condi setups extremely strong if the enemy team cant stack some aoe condi cleanse. This was just an example to show that swapping profession can be helpful, there are tons of other examples. If you are too ignorant to see the benefits of this then i doubt you understood the way spvp works.

See what I mean? Should ANet allow this sort of attitude the set the pace for everyone else? Of course not. So yeah, put in class locking, and have the system judge “unbalanced” teams accordingly for matchmaking and reward purposes.

Are you kidding me?

I know this comes as a HUGE shock for you, but there are at least three different – AND viable – builds per profession atm. Disallowing profession stacking and having some kind of weird algorithm judge teams based on their PROFESSIONS, is just plain stupid.

Build diversity is a GOOD THING. It makes matches fun. When I come across a guardian, I dont know for sure what build he is using atm. Is it medi burn oldschool? Staff bunker? Staff support? DH trapper? DH support? How is an algorithm even supposed to CORRECTLY read a build someone queues with? Not to mention, you would have to lock professions AND builds.

Why not just make gw2 into some hero-based moba and be done with spvp forever?

If there’s atm so many thieves / necros queueing, the problem IS NOT the matchmaker. The problem is, those professions are atm totally unbalanced and everybody tries to ride the easy train.

If you want to learn to play a new profession/build, do what everybody else does. Play hotjoin for a couple of games to perfect your skill rotations/positioning. You dont like the anet hotjoin servers because they are filled with too many noobs? Join an open empty server with a friend and do duels. Join one of the many open duel servers. There are tons of options for improving your gameplay. 99% of the playerbase just dont use them.

/edit:
Well, kitten… here I go afk for a bit and Evan Lesh pretty much posts my concerns in such a nice way

Impact.2780:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Fistandanthilus.6824:

Evan Lesh.3295:

It sounds like you want profession-specific MMR?

WTF!! I thought profession-specfic MMR was long ago implemented!! Oh my god what are you guys doing?!

I was under the impression that we had profession specific mmr already as well. Pretty sure comments were made that this was a thing specifically so people could feel more comfortable trying new classes. Since you’re not likely to be awesome at it right out the door, and don’t necessarily want to be thrown into games at the proficiency levels of say, whatever you main.

They made it, then turned it off before applying the patch with it, and since then as far as we know it’s been left. It might even still be untested for all we know.

I suppose this is the reason for it – that there is no class locking once your match is found.

sigh

Build diversity is a GOOD THING. It makes matches fun. When I come across a guardian, I dont know for sure what build he is using atm. Is it medi burn oldschool? Staff bunker? Staff support? DH trapper? DH support? How is an algorithm even supposed to CORRECTLY read a build someone queues with? Not to mention, you would have to lock professions AND builds.

I don’t see how the system could judge those things, but it doesn’t have to. The system is not guaranteed to provide you with the best possible odds of victory, it’s intended to present a reasonably fair shot as often as possible. Sometimes you’ll face a build mismatch that works against you, sometimes you’ll face one that works in your favor. You shouldn’t swap your build to deal with that, you should just handle it and do your best to win.

Jourdelune.7456:

Chaith.8256:

@Evan, in my humble opinion, we need tighter MMR grouping and longer unranked queues if necessary.

Extremely large skill discrepancy within teams

What we really need, is to have PRO league players mentoring other team as COACH to make more high MMR players.

Stop keeping all your secrets, share and let people evolved to get better matches.

But nearly all players lack the foundation enough for those top level “secrets”. I do however support a coaching system where a coach has classes for certain MMR brackets. They’d be paid in real life money, gems, or gold (coach accepts which currency) and would take place in coaching arenas. They’re almost exactly like current arenas but where everyone is green until they go into established parties or agree to a duel or whatever to get in some practice. The coach will gauge the students’ weaknesses and see where they need improving or even if their play style agrees with their chosen class. Other classes could involve things like Teamspeak, MasqVox, strengths and weaknesses of different Teamspeak programs, and other factors outside the scope of mechanical skill and when and where to rotate. Coaches should be at least diamond level MMR (similar to Platinum on League of Legends where they’re better than 98.5% of other players) and ESL experience.

Novices would learn things like, “Why you shouldn’t attack beast at the start of Forest or rush lord at the start of Legacy and why you shouldn’t blow all your endurance and energy when starting a match” whereas intermediates would have all this knowledge and would need to learn more specific things. Advanced players would focus on polishing rough edges in rotations and technique enough to break out of gold/ruby while diamond players (coaching this level would be reserved for legendary or the top .1% since they have knowledge that diamonds lack) would learn even more advanced techniques, since other diamonds share the same level of technique and knowledge they do but the problem for anyone at this level (in any game) is finding that little something extra to push you ahead.

Agemnon.4608:

But nearly all players lack the foundation enough for those top level “secrets”. I do however support a coaching system where a coach has classes for certain MMR brackets. They’d be paid in real life money, gems, or gold (coach accepts which currency) and would take place in coaching arenas. They’re almost exactly like current arenas but where everyone is green until they go into established parties or agree to a duel or whatever to get in some practice. The coach will gauge the students’ weaknesses and see where they need improving or even if their play style agrees with their chosen class. Other classes could involve things like Teamspeak, MasqVox, strengths and weaknesses of different Teamspeak programs, and other factors outside the scope of mechanical skill and when and where to rotate. Coaches should be at least diamond level MMR (similar to Platinum on League of Legends where they’re better than 98.5% of other players) and ESL experience.

Novices would learn things like, “Why you shouldn’t attack beast at the start of Forest or rush lord at the start of Legacy and why you shouldn’t blow all your endurance and energy when starting a match” whereas intermediates would have all this knowledge and would need to learn more specific things. Advanced players would focus on polishing rough edges in rotations and technique enough to break out of gold/ruby while diamond players (coaching this level would be reserved for legendary or the top .1% since they have knowledge that diamonds lack) would learn even more advanced techniques, since other diamonds share the same level of technique and knowledge they do but the problem for anyone at this level (in any game) is finding that little something extra to push you ahead.

That’s a cool thing that’s in LoL, but while very off topic, probably won’t be a popular resource in GW2 until we’ve established a skill based league.

Honestly I feel like the easiest fix for unranked mmr is to just change it back to how it was pre patch, sometimes you have new players on your team, sometimes on the other, its luck of the draw. I personally felt that the mmr change was completely unnecessary.
Profession locking and not being able to swap mid match would cause too many other issues, not to mention a lot of work.

Chaith.8256:

Jourdelune.7456:

Chaith.8256:

@Evan, in my humble opinion, we need tighter MMR grouping and longer unranked queues if necessary.

Extremely large skill discrepancy within teams

What we really need, is to have PRO league players mentoring other team as COACH to make more high MMR players.

Stop keeping all your secrets, share and let people evolved to get better matches.

Are you scolding me or something? Lots of pro players stream a ton and explain why or why not to do certain things in PvP

@chaith i dont believe he’s scolding you
@jour ESL players devote a LOT of time playing toghether make use of voice comms and are constantly looking at their builds to see what could be improved. The first thing is easy find a pvp guild that uses voice comms and wants too improve. Try too keep improving your build and comp and try to keep the roster you play with to a 6 min( preverably 5)

My last match I actually had to fight and flat out won a 1v2 battle and my team still could barely hold it together. I don’t know what’s going on but my matches today have been some of the worst experiences I’ve ever had. Never seen so many helpless players.

Had to change my build to a relatively “strong” one in order to carry my last match to victory.