Guild Wars 2

At first I just wanted to reply into the thread “I feel embarrassed”, but my post just became too big and thread itself is not suitable (i think) for constructive dialogue and my post would probably just lost in there.

Some condition related skills and traits certainly must be nerfed or at least reworked. Some builds can stack a ridiculous amont and/or duration of conditions, devs should take a good look at skills with burning, poison, chill, and fear. Especially fear.

Grenades, burning stacking guardians, fear stacking necromancers (dear god, why?).

Simple examples:

Poison grenades (5 seconds duration, 25/20 seconds cd, 3+ seconds of poison every second, and it is also unblockable) and longbow burst skill (9 seconds duration, 10 or less seconds cd) makes an abnormal pressure on points (especially on low-size points).

About too-many-damage conditions. I’m not the first who say that conditions are too strong just because you do not need anything but condition damage stat to deal an actual damage. Yes, in some cases you might want some crit chance to proc traits (engineer for example), but it is not a mandatory. To deal damage via conditions you do not need critical damage at all.

There are also a condition duration stat. But the thing is that amulets do not provide condition duration at all, so it is stacked only via traits (up to 30%) or via sigils.
Traits are part of the build, nobody will invest into certain trait lines just for stats, neither for condition duration, nor just for power, crit chance/damage, etc. So it is ridiculous to say “you have to invest into those trait line to get 20% more condition duration”. There are only sigils left then.

And here my point is: 20% condition duration is important in very rare situations, usually when conditions would not be removed (or when you want to slighty increase the duration of immobilize, chill, or cripple, for extra pressure – it is not related to condition damage at all), so you will get 7 effective tics of burning instead of 6 (for example), the damage of which is already ridiculous for the damage source which requires only one stat. In this case 6 seconds of burning will already deal almost 3k damage with just celestial amulet.

So, to deal physical damage you need a good amount of 3 stats (power, crit chance, crit damage).
For conditions you need just condition damage and nothing else.

Telegraphy, builds, damage per skill.

Just look at how long the cast and how short the range (it is also affected by slows and immobilize) of eviscerate is (up to 4-5k damage against squishy target without might/vuln stacking, don’t forget about 3 stats), and nearly instantly casting blowtorch (even though description says that cast time is 1/2 seconds, may be it is a summ of cast and recovery time?), which deals nearly 3,5-4k damage most of which ignores toughness.

Is it a good thing that there is no defence against condition damage besides cleansing and duration decreasing runes and traits?

It is much harder to dodge blowtorch just because of it’s short cast time and bad telegraphy.
Yes, one can say that “you can remove burning”. But what if you can’t? That’s the problem. There is always “you can remove all these conditions” argument.

So if you don’t have anything to remove conditions, you will not die only if you will be much more skilled than your opponent. No exceptions.

This is the bad thing: you have to take something against conditions – not only your dodge and positioning skills.

Is the damage of certain condition skills not too high for it’s cast time, animation, and cooldown?
If you won’t remove bleeding from shrapnel, it will deal nearly 3,5 thousands of damage. This skill has a 5 seconds cooldown.

Suggestions?..
Eh… I actually do not think that devs are going to greatly change whole system, so the only thing you can do is to strongly decrease duration (or increase cooldowns) of all damaging conditions and increase their damage so these builds would be more about bursting instead of stacking tons of them until the opponent will lose every condition removing skills and meet painful death. Strong condition inflicting skills should have an easy to read telegraphy.

Nothing should have a 100% and more potential uptime.
Especially damaging conditions.

Related idea:
Give condition removing skills some priorities. Pretty same as some thief healing skills which remove certain conditions, but not only those conditions. So it would be like “Removes 3 conditions. Priorities are burning, poison, and bleeding.”

And also, for the sake of build diversity, give warriors something that make them viable as glass cannons again. They just can’t kill anything decent solo in any glass “cannon” build without solid difference in skill. Correct me if I’m wrong and prove your words with a build. You can't.

“i don’t want to run condi clear but i also don’t want die to condi”

sounds pretty similar to

“i don’want to use blocks or dodges but i also don’t want to die to power damage”

just run solder runes and shouts, or cleansing ire you should be good (over 1 year of only warrior played).

also buddy, if you want high risk high reward Schwahrheit has some builds for ya’ http://www.twitch.tv/blacktruth009/b/616807838 (if you can’t make his builds work you are just not good enough and need to practice more).

Conditions are meant to be “easy” damage and not bursty – that is intended

Guard/Ele/Warr can almost negate all condition damage with meta builds

Thief/Mes would be out of control if not for conditions

Rock-Bunker
Paper-Burst
Scissor-Conditions

All seems to be working as intended IMO

CutePicsHunter.7430:

Poison grenades (5 seconds duration, 25/20 seconds cd, 3+ seconds of poison every second, and it is also unblockable) […]

Poison grenades do not cover a whole point. The engi has limited control over it, you can point out the general direction of you poison grenades, but where those 3 grenades land is still a bit random. Grenades are also clearly visible and distinguishable, slow moving and arcing projectiles.

About too-many-damage conditions. I’m not the first who say that conditions are too strong just because you do not need anything but condition damage stat to deal an actual damage. […]

Conditions deal damage over time. Condi cleanse and you are rid of most of that damage. Aside from actions like blocking and dodging (which usually works against conditions as well), which have to started before direct damage is applied, there is no way to lower the damage of direct attacks. There is absolutely no way to do so after direct damage has been applied, like cleanse after DoT has been applied.

So, to deal physical damage you need a good amount of 3 stats (power, crit chance, crit damage).[…]

No, you don’t. To deal ridiculous amounts of direct damage you need 3 stats. To deal as much damage with one Backstab or Rapid Fire in a matter of seconds (or even less). Yes, obviously, to dish out as much damage with one attack in one second you need to invest more points as to dish out the same damage over 10 kitten seconds. The DPS for most conditions is still not that super-special-awesome as people make it out to be.
To deal physical damage all you need is power. Bunker guards and warriors can invest in vitality or toughness and still dish out good damage with power. PvP is not only about “most damage is king”, you need to think about balancing your stats. So if you think rabid is so unfair, try soldiers and see for yourself. I’ve been doing well with it on a bunker warrior.

Just look at how long the cast and how short the range (it is also affected by slows and immobilize) of eviscerate is (up to 4-5k damage against squishy target without might/vuln stacking, don’t forget about 3 stats)[…]

Eviscerate deals massive amount of damage and only needs power to do so. + Sigil of Intelligence and we are talking guaranteed crit. Again, eviscerate is instant damage. I do 4-5k on squishies with bunker warrior. If you’d be a full berserker stats, you’d do way more damage. Instantly.
And yeah, off-hand pistol is not that popular compared to shield with condi engis. I wonder why. Must be because it is so OP, amirite guyz?

Is it a good thing that there is no defence against condition damage besides cleansing and duration decreasing runes and traits?

You’re defence is called vitality, you defence is called cleansing and your defence against conditions is sustained healing provided by regen, certain skills and traits. Sounds fair to me.

If you won’t remove bleeding from shrapnel, it will deal nearly 3,5 thousands of damage. This skill has a 5 seconds cooldown.

I will repeat myself, damage over time versus instant damage. If you do not factor in time, when it’s the name of the game, then I cannot help you. Seriously, guys, seriously.

Eh… I actually do not think that devs are going to greatly change whole system, so the only thing you can do is to strongly decrease duration (or increase cooldowns) of all damaging conditions and increase their damage so these builds […]
*Nothing should have a 100% and more potential uptime.

Damage. Over. Time. Which can be negated after it has been applied. Loads of AoE condi cleanse, have a shout guardian/shoutbow and suddenly one player can negate all the condi damage against your whole group. Only comparable thing against direct damage is a guardian sharing Aegis, which, again, has to be done before the damage is applied. See? I can cherry-pick stuff to make my point, too. Nerf condi cleanse in groups, its too stronk, I get rekt all the time, guyz.

And also, for the sake of build diversity, give warriors something that make them viable as glass cannons again. They just can’t kill anything decent solo in any glass “cannon” build without solid difference in skill. Correct me if I’m wrong and prove your words with a build. You can't.

I want a tank thief and mesmer! I want an evade spam guardian! I want …!
I hope this didn’t come off too aggressive and I’m sorry if it did. But I do not like one sided rants that don’t even brush very obvious problems for the sake of making a point, so I tried (and yet, probably failed) playing devil’s advocate here. However, there is obviously no harm in discussing aspects of the game, ever. Lets try and consider all perspectives and facts, though. Thank you.
edit spelling and grammar, yo

choovanski.5462:

“i don’t want to run condi clear but i also don’t want die to condi”

sounds pretty similar to

“i don’want to use blocks or dodges but i also don’t want to die to power damage”

thats what i got from it.

But what happen when you run out of remove conditions ? because again many condition combine ( believe me ,many except you play condi ele) ,can you got enough condi clear ?nah cuz you need some mobility,stability and some DPS counter too.DPS has many way to counter ( dodge ,block ,invu ,endure, toughness reduce dmg …) but about condition ,the traditional way is remove condi skills ,but seem like not enough ( cuz many ,read up there) ,dodge and block and invu may help a few time ,but really ,most condition skill is spamming type ,they will repeat again and again until you die because run out of condi clean. Remember conditions dmg is a real big deal cuz they ignore the toughness not like DPS,and dont really need crit-chance like DPS.
Most conditions are dmg over time type , so they should not deal dmg as fast and strong as DPS ,and still got a good suitain.The best way is make condition still deal the strong dmg like currently, but let’s they drain HP slower ,reduce the duration a litte bit,dam fine.

Fanta.8049:

But what happen when you run out of remove conditions ? because again many condition combine ( believe me ,many except you play condi ele) ,can you got enough condi clear ?nah cuz you need some mobility,stability and some DPS counter too.DPS has many way to counter ( dodge ,block ,invu ,endure, toughness reduce dmg …) but about condition ,the traditional way is remove condi skills ,but seem like not enough ( cuz many ,read up there) ,dodge and block and invu may help a few time ,but really ,most condition skill is spamming type ,they will repeat again and again until you die because run out of condi clean. Remember conditions dmg is a real big deal cuz they ignore the toughness not like DPS,and dont really need crit-chance like DPS.
Most conditions are dmg over time type , so they should not deal dmg as fast and strong as DPS ,and still got a good suitain.The best way is make condition still deal the strong dmg like currently, but let’s they drain HP slower ,reduce the duration a litte bit,dam fine.

it’s called managing your cooldowns and choosing which conditions to clear, ie L2P

choovanski.5462:

Fanta.8049:

But what happen when you run out of remove conditions ? because again many condition combine ( believe me ,many except you play condi ele) ,can you got enough condi clear ?nah cuz you need some mobility,stability and some DPS counter too.DPS has many way to counter ( dodge ,block ,invu ,endure, toughness reduce dmg …) but about condition ,the traditional way is remove condi skills ,but seem like not enough ( cuz many ,read up there) ,dodge and block and invu may help a few time ,but really ,most condition skill is spamming type ,they will repeat again and again until you die because run out of condi clean. Remember conditions dmg is a real big deal cuz they ignore the toughness not like DPS,and dont really need crit-chance like DPS.
Most conditions are dmg over time type , so they should not deal dmg as fast and strong as DPS ,and still got a good suitain.The best way is make condition still deal the strong dmg like currently, but let’s they drain HP slower ,reduce the duration a litte bit,dam fine.

it’s called managing your cooldowns and choosing which conditions to clear, ie L2P

The thing that makes me mad about conditions is that because of the spammy application you have no real control over what you remove.

In the past few days I’ve been perma imobolized by ranger entangle while dropping mu null field right on top of myself because of the field cleansing other conditions

choovanski.5462:

Fanta.8049:

But what happen when you run out of remove conditions ? because again many condition combine ( believe me ,many except you play condi ele) ,can you got enough condi clear ?nah cuz you need some mobility,stability and some DPS counter too.DPS has many way to counter ( dodge ,block ,invu ,endure, toughness reduce dmg …) but about condition ,the traditional way is remove condi skills ,but seem like not enough ( cuz many ,read up there) ,dodge and block and invu may help a few time ,but really ,most condition skill is spamming type ,they will repeat again and again until you die because run out of condi clean. Remember conditions dmg is a real big deal cuz they ignore the toughness not like DPS,and dont really need crit-chance like DPS.
Most conditions are dmg over time type , so they should not deal dmg as fast and strong as DPS ,and still got a good suitain.The best way is make condition still deal the strong dmg like currently, but let’s they drain HP slower ,reduce the duration a litte bit,dam fine.

it’s called managing your cooldowns and choosing which conditions to clear, ie L2P

Managing is a part of it ,but really did you read everything i wrote ? maybe im not so good as those streamming esport guys ,but i know esport tatics, i know the strong and weakness of my build , i know when to fight ,when to run,also managing my cd pretty good ,never testing and learning a build in ranked .Of course you dont care , but i make my point that’s i dont need your advice . And they plan on you like 7~8 condi at the same time and drop you down to 50% nearly instantly , you will hope there is no immo or chilled or so you can run away asap.

Fanta.8049:

choovanski.5462:

Fanta.8049:

But what happen when you run out of remove conditions ? because again many condition combine ( believe me ,many except you play condi ele) ,can you got enough condi clear ?nah cuz you need some mobility,stability and some DPS counter too.DPS has many way to counter ( dodge ,block ,invu ,endure, toughness reduce dmg …) but about condition ,the traditional way is remove condi skills ,but seem like not enough ( cuz many ,read up there) ,dodge and block and invu may help a few time ,but really ,most condition skill is spamming type ,they will repeat again and again until you die because run out of condi clean. Remember conditions dmg is a real big deal cuz they ignore the toughness not like DPS,and dont really need crit-chance like DPS.
Most conditions are dmg over time type , so they should not deal dmg as fast and strong as DPS ,and still got a good suitain.The best way is make condition still deal the strong dmg like currently, but let’s they drain HP slower ,reduce the duration a litte bit,dam fine.

it’s called managing your cooldowns and choosing which conditions to clear, ie L2P

Managing is a part of it ,but really did you read everything i wrote ? maybe im not so good as those streamming esport guys ,but i know esport tatics, i know the strong and weakness of my build , i know when to fight ,when to run,also managing my cd pretty good ,never testing and learning a build in ranked .Of course you dont care , but i make my point that’s i dont need your advice . And they plan on you like 7~8 condi at the same time and drop you down to 50% nearly instantly , you will hope there is no immo or chilled or so you can run away asap.

vitality is a defense against condi, also you can dodge and block attacks the apply conditions. conditions like bleeding, confusion and torment are much more dangerous when stacked at a high number, so that is when they should be cleared. conditions do less damage than power in pvp (not wvw.. condi is just stupid there), but depending on the class and build you can ‘condi burst’ people. however, like a power burst a condi burst will be made up of multiple skills and will almost always have at least elements that are able to be dodged or blocked. your issue seems to be that someone burst you and it hurt, well that’s what a burst is supposed to do. also, you must realize that builds will have weaknesses. perhaps you have have high toughness to counter power damage, or lots of condition clear and vitality to counter conditions. however, the nice thing about conditions is that unlike with with power damage a teammate can help you avoid the damage. a popular build that does this is the shout warrior that not only clears it’s own conditions but also those of allies while also healing them. so, a supportive teammate can help fill the gaps in your build, one of the reasons why team composition is so important.

i main engineer and the build i play passively cures one condition every 15 seconds, and can cure two conditions every 20 seconds with my heal. so to combat conditions i use runes that decrease their duration, and have multiple sources of healing (bombs and super elixir) to help mitigate their effects. regardless they are still a weak point of mine, hence why i like to fight with a warrior or guardian who can cure my conditions also. furthermore i have a skill that cures conditions only on allies, so i can in part return the favor. build synergy and teamwork go a long way in combating conditions.

conditions can hit hard and they can hurt, but you should know by know that pvp is not supposed to be easy. there are two types of damage in the game and you have to earn how to deal with them effectively to have great success. it is unlikely that one build will be able to deal both with direct and condition damage without suffering in damage or mobility greatly, but this is where teammates come in to supplement your builds weaknesses.

as an example, the leader of a guild i WvW has a guardian build that has the ability to draw all of the conditions from each party member to himself and cure them. it’s very useful, and allows for him to have party members with little to no condi removal, as they know he can take care of it.

Vitality are defend again condi ,but not every single class and build has a good hp bar ,sure thing bleeding and confusion are extreme dangerous ,easy to clear if there are 1 or 2 condi on you ,know problem ,but if they stack a bun of high duration condi on you ,that’s not going to happen cuz u cant choose what condi to clean. And like i said ,most condi skill is spamming types ,not like a DPS build with few shot around ,so they can stack it again after u clean it ,easy.Not sure if condi dmg is lesser than dps ,but im sure most of condi build still deal a good dmg and having a good suitain more than dps build .Teammate is a important part ,but with the current match making system,for example,u cant alway got a bunker guard or shoutbow have you clean out the condi. And every single build have it’s own weakness ,but it’s not easy to strike on it .For example again , if you playing a pew pew ranger , you can dealing with a bunker guardian just by standing out point and pew pew on him .Of course the guardian cant deal a good dmg on the ranger, that his weakness ,but remember he’s still have a bun of healing and defend stuff that help him survial long enough until his teammate come .This game is all about teamwork ,pvp,pve,wvw ,teammates are important ,but you cant alway find a good team that knowing esport,got a build that have good support like might stack and condi clean,cuz alot of player play the build that please them and the build might be a litter selfish ,so extra condi clear by teammmate is very randomly.

choovanski.5462:

“i don’t want to run condi clear but i also don’t want die to condi”
“i don’want to use blocks or dodges but i also don’t want to die to power damage”

Yeap. That’s why you should feel the difference between “run with” and “use” what you already have in any builds.

Narkodx.1472:

Conditions are meant to be “easy” damage and not bursty – that is intended

“Meant”, right. I am not against all condition builds – I just pointed out some abnormal examples.

Narkodx.1472:

Guard/Ele/Warr can almost negate all condition damage with meta builds

That’s the problem – there is pretty much nothing outside of meta builds with some light variations.

Narkodx.1472:

Rock-Bunker
Paper-Burst
Scissor-Conditions

All seems to be working as intended IMO

Can’t disagree. But… we are ESL!

Mouseheart.8672:

Poison grenades do not cover a whole point. The engi has limited control over it, you can point out the general direction of you poison grenades, but where those 3 grenades land is still a bit random. Grenades are also clearly visible and distinguishable, slow moving and arcing projectiles.

“Limited” control does not prevent you from spamming grenades even from your back at 1200 range. In 1v1 it might not be a thing, but when it is not 1v1 things like grenades and lb burst skill have a very high pressure. Too much pressure.

Mouseheart.8672:

Conditions deal damage over time. Condi cleanse and you are rid of most of that damage. Aside from actions like blocking and dodging (which usually works against conditions as well), which have to started before direct damage is applied, there is no way to lower the damage of direct attacks. There is absolutely no way to do so after direct damage has been applied, like cleanse after DoT has been applied.

Everything you said here does not actually justify the difference between requierements. As Narkodx.1472, it’s a rock-paper-scissors. If you think that it is a good thing, then I ask you to leave this discussion.

Mouseheart.8672:

To deal ridiculous amounts of direct damage you need 3 stats.

That’s what I am talking about, boy. Meanwhile for some condition builds you only need one. That’s the problem.

Mouseheart.8672:

The DPS for most conditions is still not that super-special-awesome as people make it out to be.

Most. You have a pretty interesting opinion about viable builds, don’t you?

Mouseheart.8672:

To deal physical damage all you need is power. […]

To deal a good amount of physical damage you need much more that just a power.

Just look at how long the cast and how short the range (it is also affected by slows and immobilize) of eviscerate is (up to 4-5k damage against squishy target without might/vuln stacking, don’t forget about 3 stats)[…]

Mouseheart.8672:

I do 4-5k on squishies with bunker warrior.

And then your damage tends to zero and all you have is cc.

Is it a good thing that there is no defence against condition damage besides cleansing and duration decreasing runes and traits?

Mouseheart.8672:

You’re defence is called vitality, you defence is called cleansing and your defence against conditions is sustained healing provided by regen, certain skills and traits. Sounds fair to me.

First of all, I said “besides cleansing”, can you read? Second, vitality is not a “defence”, it does not actually reduce condition damage. It just increases your life time. By following your logic I can say that jumping off the ledge is a defence against conditions – because you will not receive any damage after falling to death. Healing power is also a defence against conditions. And Precision, because you can kill them faster. Yes, yes, yes.

Mouseheart.8672:

and suddenly one player can negate all the condi damage against your whole group.

That actually made me laugh. I can’t take you seriously now.

CutePicsHunter.7430:

Is it a good thing that there is no defence against condition damage besides cleansing and duration decreasing runes and traits?

Is it a good thing that there is no defence against physical damage beside protection and toughness?

Oh, there are more defensive options? Work against conditions too …

choovanski.5462:

“i don’t want to run condi clear but i also don’t want die to condi”

sounds pretty similar to

“i don’want to use blocks or dodges but i also don’t want to die to power damage”

just run solder runes and shouts, or cleansing ire you should be good (over 1 year of only warrior played).

also buddy, if you want high risk high reward Schwahrheit has some builds for ya’ http://www.twitch.tv/blacktruth009/b/616807838 (if you can’t make his builds work you are just not good enough and need to practice more).

what you just said was basically, i can dodge and block to mitigate power damage, but i have to dodge and block and get a decent amount of condition clear to go against condition damage.

Its not always necessary to clear conditions if you manage to avoid the most dangerous ones. Especially, if you can kill your opponent fast. Which is possible for glassy power builds.

And condiremove is not only helpful vs condibuilds, but vs powerbuilds too, to get rid of things like immob (probably the most dangerous condition), cripple, chill, weakness, poison …

Answer me this: what do you use to defend yourself against thief burst? What about Shatter Mesmer burst?

Dear OP. Congratulations. You quoted me, ignored completely what I said, just to repeat your opinion. You truly are the hero this forum deserves.

Spamming nades: Yes, clearly, a cooldown of 25 seconds lets me spam poison grenades. Oh, what, its about all grenades now? Sorry, you changing the topic to not consider my point is a bit sad. They are still very visible, distinguishable (you can clearly see which grenade is thrown) and slow moving. Hitting someone who isn’t standing still perfectly from a distance of 1500 is very unlikely. Point stands. A skill with a higher cooldown, with an obvious limitation of control and clearly visible is not a problem. Thief’s short bow 4 is “worse” in every aspect, due for thieves mechanics it actually can be spammed without any consideration to cooldown, it is 100% controllable and covers a larger area. And yet, I’d still not call it broken. And neither do you, it seems.

I am going to repeat myself, but all you need for condition damage is “condition damage”, all you need for direct damage is “power”. Its nice that you completely ignored what I said about the differences of damage over time and direct damage and just continued spewing your bullkitten. Power is all you need for high direct damage. Precision and ferocity further add to that damage. With a berserker build you dish out damage numbers in the thousands with each attack. Even your auto attack hits for several thousand. In an instant. Just then, there and now. Instantly, couple of thousands of your enemies HP is gone. Damage over time ticks for hundreds and accumulates the same damage over a period of time. That is why it is called damage over time. Sure, they can stack that damage on you, but you can “stack” direct damage as well. Bleeding does 3.5k damage in 6 seconds. Auto attacking someone even without precision and ferocity, just using power does even more damage in 6 seconds.
Its different kinds of damage with different defences against that damage. And yes, if you think “toughness” is a defence against direct damage, than having high vitality is a defence against condition damage. Everything that works to prevent direct damage (blocking, dodging and aegis) manages to prevent condition damage as well, because most attacks need to register a hit to apply the conditions. You further have condi cleanse and sustained healing. Glad you just ignored that one, because elementalists, for example, a class that has been seen as a bit imbalanced due to its synergy with might stacking and celestial stats, had very powerful sustain potential.

You completely misunderstood what I was saying. You only need power to do good physical damage. That is the equivalent of condition damage. I explicitly called the damage you are capable of by investing in power, precision and ferocity “ridiculous”, because it is on a completely different DPS wise than even the best condition builds.

Answer me this: Why don’t we play conditions in PvE? Huh? Why?! Because physical damage provided by power, precision and ferocity is way better. In terms of absolute numbers and even more so when you look at the damage per second, or DPS.
In PvP, we cannot just look at the damage. There is way more build diversity. There is some balancing, there is some glass-cannon-ing, there is some bunker-ing. If you look at the DPS of condition builds only going for condition damage and power builds only going for power and investing their other stats in defensive stats, there is not that much of a difference.

And lastly, you dismissing all my points because of an obvious joke is, if I am not mistaken, a logical fallacy. I cannot take you serious if you really thought I wanted condi cleanse to be nerfed or removed. Jeez. It is almost as if you are wilfully ignoring any valid point made against your case because all you want is to rant instead taking part in an actual discussion.

Key problems with conditions:

1. Certain abilities which apply high-damage conditions and are unavoidable, such as Incendiary Powder from Engineer.
2. Access to a wide variety of conditions, usually from sigils (Doom, Geomancy) and runes (Krait, Perplexity) which dramatically increase the rate of damage applied while making it harder to stop all the damage with condition removal.
3. Most condition removal isn’t predictable or reliable when you are affected by many different condition types. Immobilize tends to be one of the last conditions removed. This make the previous problem worse.
4. Condition duration increases (and decreases if you count WvW too) affect damaging conditions as well as CC conditions. When CC can last longer without use of specialized traits, it makes it hard to balance.

The condition damage stat isn’t a big problem currently; power damage scales better. Where condition damage as a sole damage stat becomes problematic is when you start stacking many different types of damaging conditions at once. When you can do that, condition damage obtains burst potential like power damage from less stats. It’s why players vehemently opposed the addition of Perplexity runes to PvP.

Exedore.6320:

Key problems with conditions:

1. Certain abilities which apply high-damage conditions and are unavoidable, such as Incendiary Powder from Engineer.
2. Access to a wide variety of conditions, usually from sigils (Doom, Geomancy) and runes (Krait, Perplexity) which dramatically increase the rate of damage applied while making it harder to stop all the damage with condition removal.
3. Most condition removal isn’t predictable or reliable when you are affected by many different condition types. Immobilize tends to be one of the last conditions removed. This make the previous problem worse.
4. Condition duration increases (and decreases if you count WvW too) affect damaging conditions as well as CC conditions. When CC can last longer without use of specialized traits, it makes it hard to balance.

The condition damage stat isn’t a big problem currently; power damage scales better. Where condition damage as a sole damage stat becomes problematic is when you start stacking many different types of damaging conditions at once. When you can do that, condition damage obtains burst potential like power damage from less stats. It’s why players vehemently opposed the addition of Perplexity runes to PvP.

Oh, these are some good points. Maybe splitting up conditions in damaging conditions, which are affected by everything currently affecting conditions, and CC conditions, which always have fixed values, would solve this?

edit has → have

I am curious, if conditions are so strong, why do you see no actual conditions builds on high end teams?

Only need 1 stat? A lot of condi come from on crit procs. You also need to factor TIME. While direct dmg is instant, conditions need some time to start hurting the enemy. How many full condi builds do we have now? 1 necro. How many full zerker we have? 2 mesmer and thief.

Condis are not overpowered.

coglin.1867:

I am curious, if conditions are so strong, why do you see no actual conditions builds on high end teams?

Every high end team is running celestial amulet with engis, warriors, and elementalists. Each of these see a lot of their damage come from condis. Not every class has hybrid weapons like these do

Atherakhia.4086:

coglin.1867:

I am curious, if conditions are so strong, why do you see no actual conditions builds on high end teams?

Every high end team is running celestial amulet with engis, warriors, and elementalists. Each of these see a lot of their damage come from condis. Not every class has hybrid weapons like these do

They are hybrid. Not pure condi. One could say that their direct dmg is a good part of their dps too. Do you want a hybrid to do 0 condi dmg? Oo

Mouseheart.8672:

[…]

I didn’t say a single word about spamming poison nades. That being said, I prefer to ignore your posts in the future just to stay aside from your imagination.

coglin.1867:

I am curious, if conditions are so strong, why do you see no actual conditions builds on high end teams?

Doesn’t Noose(sp?) in Abjured run a condi build?

Exedore.6320:

Key problems with conditions:

Thank you sir! I’m not very strong in English and it was pretty hard for me to form a laconic post with simple statements. For examples I mentioned just first things that came in mind, so I could me misunderstood.

Gabriell.4856:

coglin.1867:

I am curious, if conditions are so strong, why do you see no actual conditions builds on high end teams?

Doesn’t Noose(sp?) in Abjured run a condi build?

Nosoc does. Necros are the only ones you see doing it, though.