Guild Wars 2

I don’t get it

me neither

15 char

I feel the same way. They were so hung up on becoming an esport they forgot the reason everyone plays video games to begin with: fun

I don’t think Conquest even close to strong enough to stand on it’s own.

I’ve not played Guild Wars 1, but based on what I’ve read from the Wiki, this is just what’s missing from GW2’s PvP! It sounds amazing. A serious, competitive and fun game mode. This is so much more than, say a game mode that was all about positioning your team across a map. . . Cough.

I think GvG is not a “game mode”. It only means that there are two(or more) guilds fighting each other instead of random or premade groups. They could make more game modes like conquest which could be used by random or premade groups and then somehow implement a GvG system with guild leaderboards and stuff like that and guilds could fight on maps with the other game modes and get guild ranking and stuff like that.

Of course if you mean something like attacking a guild hall(have not played Guild Wars 1, but wasn’t there something like that?)… yeah that would be a game mode and it also could be played by random or premade groups that aren’t from the same guild – only that they have some other point to defend then and not contributing to guild ranking.

Luthan.5236:

I think GvG is not a “game mode”. It only means that there are two(or more) guilds fighting each other instead of random or premade groups. They could make more game modes like conquest which could be used by random or premade groups and then somehow implement a GvG system with guild leaderboards and stuff like that and guilds could fight on maps with the other game modes and get guild ranking and stuff like that.

Of course if you mean something like attacking a guild hall(have not played Guild Wars 1, but wasn’t there something like that?)… yeah that would be a game mode and it also could be played by random or premade groups that aren’t from the same guild – only that they have some other point to defend then and not contributing to guild ranking.

GvG Game Mode in GW1

I don’t get why they didn’t simply add dodging to GW1 and call it GW2.
Would’ve been perfect.

Because GvG and HA were just too much fun and had too many people playing it. They want Guild Wars 2 to be a PvE Only game.

There are no dedicated healers
/thread

Devs never played GvG?

Simple. Most players are solo. Just look at the lack of teams there are now. This would have been fine if it was there at launch but in the current game it would definitely be the minority.

Not saying they shouldn’t do it but stating the obvious.

If we were to ditch Conquest we would have things become similiar to WvW.
Having points in conquest actually allows a different meta and builds which are quite popular like the bunkerish condition thief in WvW is quite useless in sPvP.

Conquest is actually quite good, the issue just lies at no alternatives and lackluster infrastructure/amount and value of incentives to keep people play it.

XGhoul.7426:

There are no dedicated healers
/thread

Dedicated healers is actually bad. At least in the way that they worked in PvP in World of Warcraft. Frankly, they made the combat less interesting and boring. I.e, from what I’ve seen, most people preferred not to meet teams with healers – Not because it was any easier, but because of the reasons that I’ve already brought up.

It’s another game, but we’re still talking about dedicated healers in an MMO’s PvP. Guildwars 2’s professions is designed not to have to rely on healers or the Holy Trinity, instead the system is divided into Control, Damage & Support. Everyone can support one another, which is why we’ve, in theory, a much better replacement for the dedicated healer.

Phadde.7362:

XGhoul.7426:

There are no dedicated healers
/thread

Dedicated healers is actually bad. At least in the way that they worked in PvP in World of Warcraft. Frankly, they made the combat less interesting and boring. I.e, from what I’ve seen, most people preferred not to meet teams with healers – Not because it was any easier, but because of the reasons that I’ve already brought up.

It’s another game, but we’re still talking about dedicated healers in an MMO’s PvP. Guildwars 2’s professions is designed not to have to rely on healers or the Holy Trinity, instead the system is divided into Control, Damage & Support. Everyone can support one another, which is why we’ve, in theory, a much better replacement for the dedicated healer.

You need to play GW1 to understand how healers are properly implemented. GW2 is as much as a clustermuck as WoW.
There’s no holy trinity in GW1, just healers and the rest of your team. Everybody can support one another and has to, it just doesn’t seem that way. When your ele snares a player they reduce their DPS by an amount (could be even 100%), which is as effective as any prot. When your warrior pressures their monk it forces them to use energy on themselves and therefore less energy for cleans which is again less pressure on your enemy which is more energy for their monks which is more energy for cleans which is more pressure on your monks.

If you don’t understand this then you won’t understand why most people want GW1 things back. Dedicated healers are really, really good if implemented correctly.
Should they have implemented them though? No, I don’t think this development team could’ve handled it correctly, I don’t mean any offense but seriously there’s no chance that they would have done it well.

Phadde.7362:

XGhoul.7426:

There are no dedicated healers
/thread

Dedicated healers is actually bad.

It can be.
But so can a lack there of, it really only comes down to how well the game pulls it off.

GW2 didn’t do it that well.
WoW didn’t do it well.

I see more potential in having the most common healers be part dps/utility versus not. But that’s just me and just because I like more dynamic gameplay.

Jax.5261:

No, I don’t think this development team could’ve handled it correctly, I don’t mean any offense but seriously there’s no chance that they would have done it well.

Building off of GW1 would have easily been their best bet.
They had a working PvP model that people adored, one that was only lacking in ‘new player friendliness’…

Redoing the entire MMO scene from scratch without first sitting down and saying “how are we going to for sure make good money off this” was kitten of them.
What Anet did is kitten
They set out to reinvent a genre with a limited budget, with the only hope of more money being rushing out a pretty mindblowing game… one that could be continually financed by pretty constant large tournaments.
kitten
Even more so since the game they released couldn’t have taken off even if it was ‘all that and a bag of chips’ because they didn’t even release the necessary tools for somewhat competitive PvP…

At very least they could have planned on releasing some extremely custom servers on release to fall back on, you know, for in case they did kitten up iin some way. It’d be a place where they let players do some tweaks in balance and make maps so that they have something to charge a bit of money (since they seem to hate charging for skins), something that would for sure keep a good sized population around, but more importantly have a stream of (FREE!!!!) new ideas on how to improve their game, you know, in case they aren’t the gods of game making they seem to think they are…

But nope… they made like every mistake possible and have a failed game for it.
I honestly don’t see GW2 coming back from this.
They don’t seem to plan on making custom arenas be terribly custom and their casual matchmaking and SPvP es still utter garbage pretty much a year after release.

Its too bad, many of their in beta plans for the game were pretty amazing.
The no dedicated heals, all classes just being different means to similar roles. A more Moba take on the MMO genre with their conquest. Dodge rolling. Thieves not being spike dps and the game being in general more latency friendly.

I like the sPvP without dedicated healers. Only WvW is somehow boring I think… always liked that RvR from Warhammer Online where you had real healers and could rez the dead players outside defending and they where rezzed into the keep. That was fun.

Luthan.5236:

I like the sPvP without dedicated healers. Only WvW is somehow boring I think… always liked that RvR from Warhammer Online where you had real healers and could rez the dead players outside defending and they where rezzed into the keep. That was fun.

That’s actually why when they first started talking about downed state I thought you’d be able to move around in it.
The game would be something like 30-40~ second resapawn timers but you could crawl or whatnot your way out of fights while in the downed state to get a chance at getting back up. With much less if any out of combat bonus health regen of course.

It’d make WvW more than just a massive melee hating roaming pew pew warband.

Aaanyways… yeah, WAR was a good game.
Not the best mechanics or instances or anything, but it still was insanely entertaining game.

This game is not balanced around large numbers in pvp, it has to be small numbers.

Why? its simple, lack of dedicated healers.

Are you asking for an explanation for why gvg can’t work in gw2?
Or are you asking for a guild ladder?

Reading the GvG description.

Wouldn’t we be able to set up something like this with 8v8 teams on Foefire.

Kill the guild lord and win.

Albeit very limited with only one map, but it’s a small start?

If we could set the total number of respawns available for teams / players too, even better.

Ezrael.6859:

Reading the GvG description.

Wouldn’t we be able to set up something like this with 8v8 teams on Foefire.

Kill the guild lord and win.

Albeit very limited with only one map, but it’s a small start?

If we could set the total number of respawns available for teams / players too, even better.

It still would not work, the way this pvp set up is now is either run high dmg to outnumber someone at a specific point or split to another point, adding more people just becomes a hotjoin zerg fest. Unfortunately, without a dedicated healer this will be a far cry from gw1 pvp.

How would it be different with a healer then? Wouldn’t it just be:
1. Kill healer.
2. Kill others.
3. Win.

Still zerging only that they would kill the healers first and without healers it does not matter(maybe kill people doing high damage first).

Why have “healers” when you can utilize the “Damage, Control, Support”-system? I can only imagine how nice it would be to play on my Bunker-Traited Elementalist while I have to figure out when to interrupt which skill, which opponent to damage and when to do my massive “burst heals” (If I equip my semi-cleric-gear in dungeons, I can almost heal myself up from 0-100% – and it’s AoE! It’s great fun to save guildies who often run with Zerker-Warriors.)

I don’t really know how healers worked in the previous game – but if it’s anything like how they worked in World of Warcraft, this system just must be better. You’ve to decide which one of these 3 main “combat-categories” to utilize at a given time, even if you’ve dedicated your build to one (or any) of them specifically. That sound a lot more fun and strategic than just being “the healer”

The monk profession on GW1 was extremely well balanced until the buffed versions of WoH and Patient took over the meta.
Active protection spells are hands down the best thing ever implemented in a pvp game, and its a real, REAL pity they have been reduced to passive damage reduction that is the protection boon.

Gw1 was more about prot/mitigation then healing. Red barring was generally a poorer choice and Deep Wound (RIP) helped to deter it.
GW2 I’d say is built better but the focus is meh. Protection is really strong compared to say gw1 protective spirit given how most damage is delivered. The difference translate into multi hits vs single hits. If it was gw1 Pistol whip 100b and the like would be good for going through certain defenses that would otherwise defend against say Back stabs or eviscerates hard.

I believe they didn’t think 5v5 translated well with gvg.

You cant implement this in gw2. Its way to fast paced. For example putting a spirit bond on the right one in a effect firework with loads of AI an porting, stealthing, doding or rtling mates is almost impossible.

What they could do to make it possible would be nerfing burst and bunker so there are only hybrids. Then you could give everyone a role. 1 supporter, 1 for cc, 1 for pressure and 2 dps’er for spiking low targets (just exapmles you could also get 3 for aoe pressure to let the enemies die slwoly but all together). Of course the cc’er could still do some dmg and a dpser would have some pressure to bring some targets low.. I hope you get my point.

Right now thats just not possible due to extrem bunker and burst

Luthan.5236:

How would it be different with a healer then? Wouldn’t it just be:
1. Kill healer.
2. Kill others.
3. Win.

Still zerging only that they would kill the healers first and without healers it does not matter(maybe kill people doing high damage first).

The dynamics are different. In large scale pvp, if people used their time to down the healer, they’re vulnerable to being picked off by the opposing team. More coordination would be required to maybe cc the healer and dpsing the strongest dpser at the same time. That’s one way to approach the healer rather than trying to kill it first because there’s a counter to every coordinated attack.

I missed being a healer, but I like the playstyle of GW2 so I’m kinda stuck with what I got. The only problem I would have with a healer in GW2 is that the camera doesn’t zoom out far enough for a healer to see the battlefield and there are no healthbars.

Recently.1043:

This game is not balanced around large numbers in pvp, it has to be small numbers.

Why? its simple, lack of dedicated healers.

A game could have fine large scale fighting without people with no other role but to focus heal someone else.

Gw2 has many, many other problems (mainly caused by their blind focus on conquest) that kind of kill larger group fighting being to great.

Add more Game Modes that’s more about PvP than roaming. Of the 80 active guild members in my guild I know only one person that has played tPvP a lot. As someone that loves the PvP in MMOs, I cannot find any enjoyment in Guildwars 2’s PvP. It needs a lot of further development, in my honest opinion.

agreed my man.

+10

If u only knew how this game combat mechanics work u wouldn’t be asking about this game mode. I agree that l in gw1 was amazing, but it will not work on this game. And also guild lord in gw1 was not solod by 1 player.

Phadde.7362:

XGhoul.7426:

There are no dedicated healers
/thread

Dedicated healers is actually bad. At least in the way that they worked in PvP in World of Warcraft. Frankly, they made the combat less interesting and boring. I.e, from what I’ve seen, most people preferred not to meet teams with healers – Not because it was any easier, but because of the reasons that I’ve already brought up.

It’s another game, but we’re still talking about dedicated healers in an MMO’s PvP. Guildwars 2’s professions is designed not to have to rely on healers or the Holy Trinity, instead the system is divided into Control, Damage & Support. Everyone can support one another, which is why we’ve, in theory, a much better replacement for the dedicated healer.

You don’t necessarily need to have a healing class to make GvG functional. However classes in GW2 need to be able to directly interact with one another rather than using area effects to benefit allies. There needs to be an addition of support skills to each class which can be directly used on allies that need aid in a fight, not necessarily as a flat out healing skill. The problem with GvG is not the classes available or lack of a certain class; the fact that the battle system was designed with far less strategy in mind than in the previous Guildwars. Instead of having a team that is dependent to a certain degree with one another, a GW2 at this point in time is comprised of a group of players that are completely independent of one another, thus eliminating the vast majority of strategy in pvp.

ghaleon.2861:

If u only knew how this game combat mechanics work u wouldn’t be asking about this game mode. I agree that l in gw1 was amazing, but it will not work on this game. And also guild lord in gw1 was not solod by 1 player.

How hard would it be to increase the health of the guild lord so that it can’t be soloed? If Anet would tone down the aoe graphics, large scale combat would be easier to see/watch. The combat system was designed for 5v5, but it doesn’t mean that conquest should be the only game mode.