why is MMR still part of ranked matchmaking?
Mmr should still be incorporated but we need a reset and calibration at the start of every season. High mmr players should then start off at higher divisions accordingly.
Lord Ninth \\ Champion Magus
- Primordial Legend
Semi-active.
- Primordial Legend
Semi-active.
i agree. but you can easily achieve the same by counting all of a players pips (starting from 1st division) at the end of a season and give them a head-start for the next season of x% (whatever seems ok) of this pips (and place them in the division/tier accordingly ) .
(edited by jomir.1958)
It’s a dirty little secret but a not insignificant portion of the player base is actually smarter then the devs in charge of developing the game. That’s why these types of why not questions are futile. You came up with a better way of doing it then they did. For some reason they think there way is better even though its clearly not.
MMR is perfectly fine for matchmaking, and in many cases it succeeds at what it is designed to do, to give each team involved an equal chance, 50/50, of winning or losing. When the matchmaking system actually pairs up 1+1+1+1+1 vs. 1+1+1+1+1 or Grouped players vs. Grouped players, the matches tend to be far more even, and this is good. So, the problem is not MMR specifically. The problem is that there’s way too many mixed matchmakings in the bag; 1+1+1+1+1, 2+1+1+1, 2+3, 3+1+1, 4+1 and 5. The more grouped (premade) players you got, the better your chances are of winning, as that gives you huge advantages over those who are queued solo, aka. randoms. It should separate Solo- and Group Queues, or at the very least narrow matchmaking down to 3+2, 4+1 and 5 to keep it actually remotely fair.
Vella Absconditus | Human Mesmer
Seafarer’s Rest
Seafarer’s Rest
after some time the good players and premade teams move further/faster up the league, the casual and not-so-good players will stay in the lower divisions.
That won’t work. As soon as the better players have moved on to the next division the other start to win and follow. So better players move faster other slower. But in the end everybody is in the highest division.
after some time the good players and premade teams move further/faster up the league, the casual and not-so-good players will stay in the lower divisions.
That won’t work. As soon as the better players have moved on to the next division the other start to win and follow. So better players move faster other slower. But in the end everybody is in the highest division.
What?
People will lose pips from losing you know?
If the 5 of your team are 1 pip higher, 5 other guys that lost will necessarily be 1 pips lower… meanning that to climb you have to be better than someone (the guys above you), and you will lower this guys and drop them (if you can).
I’m not always rude and sarcastic… Sometimes i’m asleep.
(edited by Kaliny.8265)
Dropping divisions mechanic or limited people on Legendary (or even on diamond) would solve this issues.
Most games have this… only a certain number of people can be on Tier 1, and to enter this tier one you MUST drop someone to tier 2 and get in his place, by beeing more sucessfull than him.
This makes the legendary even more meanningful and makes the other pools larger…
But yes, dropping divisions is a must because some people are Amber material so they shouldn’t climb to ruby unless they learn how to play as good as a ruby player would be expected to.
And if a ruby player is playing very badly, at emerald level game, performing last everygame and lossing most of his games, he should drop to emerald…
(even for his sake of dueling battles that he can enjoy and try to win while learning, not having to learn from defeat only seem more fun)
I’m not always rude and sarcastic… Sometimes i’m asleep.
One funny thing is that league of legends old systems had the same problems.
So anet didn’t had to commit those mistakes again, other games had those issues first and learned the hard way how to correct that. (or some of it)
On league they made that to advance to next division you will be paired 5 times against teams that are also advancing… and you MUST win 3 of them.
Also If you are at 0 pips and lose 5 in a row you will drop to the division below, your next 5 games will be promotion games… and if you win 3 of them and get to the next division (again) the system would “admit he made a mistake dropping you” and give you a 10 match immunity from dropping. (or something like that)
I’m not always rude and sarcastic… Sometimes i’m asleep.
What?
People will lose pips from losing you know?
At the moment you can win unlimited pips but can’t lose unlimited. In low divisions you lose nothing, in mid divisions you don’t lose tiers and even in high divisions you don’t lose divisions. So even with 50% win rate over time you win more pips than you lose. At least this system must allow you to loose unlimited pips (tiers and divisions).
If the 5 of your team are 1 pip higher, 5 other guys that lost will necessarily be 1 pips lower… meanning that to climb you have to be better than someone (the guys above you), and you will lower this guys and drop them (if you can).
If Matchmaking is about MMR you are right. If matchmaking is only about leagues, with the current system of limited losing, sooner or later your league get empty because all other players have moved to the next league.
If the lowest division for example consist of 100 player and you are at position 80 (better than 20 other) you lose many games. After one week 50% have moved on. The lowest division now only consist of 50 player and you are at position 30 (better than 20 other). Now you win much more. After another week 50% of the player moved on, the division consist of 25 player and you are at position 5 (better than 20 other). Now you win most games and you enter next division. So a league only system, with limited losing, means better player progress faster but in the end nearly everybody reaches top divisions.
Ofc this example is not accurate because new players start PvP etc. But the general tendency is that without MMR bad players reach top divisions after some time. So you need a matchmaking which pairs players according their MMR across division boundaries.
But yes, dropping divisions is a must because some people are Amber material so they shouldn’t climb to ruby unless they learn how to play as good as a ruby player would be expected to.
This
Dropping divisions mechanic or limited people on Legendary (or even on diamond) would solve this issues.
We had a MMR based Leaderboard but instead of fixing the issues with it anet decided to trash it and first introduced a grind leaderboard and now this league system.A MMR based Leaderboard would solve these problems.
Also this stuff of 4 Diamond + 1 Amber team is hard to believe, wtf using 50% division no matchmaking criteria?
like… realy, what? why?
people will always forge the criteria if there’s way of doing it… on league people come as far as paying challenger (legendary) players to make a noob account and going climbing with the person out of bronze and silver leagues…
But you know what happens shortly after?
1: The guy drops everything back to bronze, because he is bad.
2: The guy managed to realy learned a lot from his challenger teammate and now he continues to climb on Gold league alone… but on this case this guy now could easily get Gold on his own since he learned to play enough to keep Gold league. (so he payed for teacher, not a carry)
my point is… people WILL exploit the criteria if they can. Even if it costs money… even if it demands more effort than to get good and rise the ranks normaly (yeah people are strange).
So you have to be realy careful to make a anti-exploit criteria.
I’m not always rude and sarcastic… Sometimes i’m asleep.
(edited by Kaliny.8265)
after some time the good players and premade teams move further/faster up the league, the casual and not-so-good players will stay in the lower divisions.
That won’t work. As soon as the better players have moved on to the next division the other start to win and follow. So better players move faster other slower. But in the end everybody is in the highest division.
I don’t think this would be a problem since the league is open end. Better players will just repeat the legendary Division more offen. If u don’t want this, make seasons shorter or increase the amount of pips needed to advance. This is also the reason why demotion is not really needed. Its a race who has the most pips at the end of a seasons.