Guild Wars 2

Ok, I kinda get no trading…..even though mailing is riskier

I get no mount…….well tbh I dont necessarily care if they are here or not

But why no dueling? like there is no aspect unless if in a random made up situation this is bad. I have not gotten WoW to lvl 80 so there might be some random thing idk about

But the only thing I can see that might be annoying, is if ur defeating a pve boss and random dude ask for duel………but its no different from asking for party

zengara.8301:

Ok, I kinda get no trading…..even though mailing is riskier

I get no mount…….well tbh I dont necessarily care if they are here or not

But why no dueling? like there is no aspect unless if in a random made up situation this is bad. I have not gotten WoW to lvl 80 so there might be some random thing idk about

But the only thing I can see that might be annoying, is if ur defeating a pve boss and random dude ask for duel………but its no different from asking for party

If you want a fair, PvP Duel, go to Heart of the Mists where you and your opponent would have access to all the skills, traits and stats available and have fun.

I dont want people spamming me dual messages in PvE.
If we want PvP, we go to PvP areas, not play PvE content.

mail is the same risk as peer to peer trading.

Trading post is risk free for a fee.

Mounts are coming and you can duel in the guild arena, spvp or wvw.

Here’s a recent thread discussing the topic: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/I-feel-like-this-game-lacks-something/page/2#post6702189

Good luck.

ok, never thought people actually was deliberately against it, just thought it was one of those arguments like the mounts…..“devs havent done it, so dont ask for it” kind of mentality. I have not seen any spam messages in any other game having a open world duel system.

But is people asking you for a duel, an actual concern for people?

zengara.8301:

ok, never thought people actually was deliberately against it, just thought it was one of those arguments like the mounts…..“devs havent done it, so dont ask for it” kind of mentality. I have not seen any spam messages in any other game having a open world duel system.

But is people asking you for a duel, an actual concern for people?

Yes, for people who pvp a the lack of game modes that rely on just killing the enemy is quite frustrating. Anet refuses to add TDM because they do not want to pay any serious attention to PvP and that’s from Anets mouth directly.

Literally they do not want to balance pvp or spend time to tune it, its on the pvp forums a red post.

Ive seen the link Inculpatus Cedo. Most of the comments seems rather inadequate. Some circle around a childish reasoning and misuse of the forms of appeal by either using pathos, and directing the arguement towards an idea that this game somehow would become more agressive by letting people use duel instead of getting into heart of the mist. Or simply use a very childish comparison, where as 1 breaks the game while the other one adds to the game.

The only real answer I can get behind, between all these answers, seems to be that there are simply no way to balance the different classes. Guard>Necro>Ele>Guard
and A-Net might not want to pursue duels or deathmatches because of this idea.

Though I gotta admit that I did learn something, seems like that the people are getting more and more scared of the social aspects of the game. As if every small bit of change, could be huge-, since people will be able to duel and that will be the most scary thing ever since they get more aggressive and suddenly spam duel to everyone-.

It is very representing of the current system world wide, specially how the American president got elected. It is very scary how affected people are by every 0,0001% change. though that is beside the point of this thread
I can understand that the devs cant afford changing every balance for a duel or matchmaking system, and very glad I got that answer

zengara.8301:

Ive seen the link Inculpatus Cedo. Most of the comments seems rather inadequate. Some circle around a childish reasoning and misuse of the forms of appeal by either using pathos, and directing the arguement towards an idea that this game somehow would become more agressive by letting people use duel instead of getting into heart of the mist. Or simply use a very childish comparison, where as 1 breaks the game while the other one adds to the game.

The only real answer I can get behind, between all these answers, seems to be that there are simply no way to balance the different classes. Guard>Necro>Ele>Guard
and A-Net might not want to pursue duels or deathmatches because of this idea.

Though I gotta admit that I did learn something, seems like that the people are getting more and more scared of the social aspects of the game. As if every small bit of change, could be huge-, since people will be able to duel and that will be the most scary thing ever since they get more aggressive and suddenly spam duel to everyone-.

It is very representing of the current system world wide, specially how the American president got elected. It is very scary how affected people are by every 0,0001% change. though that is beside the point of this thread
I can understand that the devs cant afford changing every balance for a duel or matchmaking system, and very glad I got that answer

Too be honest from the perspective of people who PvP mainly they are aggressive players you generally have to be to PvP through the loss streak and the win streaks, or the bad players especially with all the PvE folks in sPvP this weekend, your mind sets gotta be i can win this regardless of w/e …because my god the amount of people in sPvP that just simply don’t understand the game mode is overwhelming i opted to not pvp for the weekend because of it.

Devs don’t have to balance for 1v1 WoW never did just put a disclaimer that 1v1 are for casual fighting, don’t put it into rank hell don’t give it a single reward people just want to be able to play PvP without having to worry about folk who either don’t know how to play. Or want to fight some one with out some random there or ranger ruining your duel at of no where.

Looking at you conquest.

Duel requests in PvE? No ta. However, I wonder if there could be a way of setting a duel/no duel flag on your char so those who get off on it can? Mind you, going at it in some places wouldn’t be welcome I suppose. Although, it would be fun to see in DR for example, the duellists whisked off to prison by the seraph for causing an affray…

Genesis.5169:

zengara.8301:

Ive seen the link Inculpatus Cedo. Most of the comments seems rather inadequate. Some circle around a childish reasoning and misuse of the forms of appeal by either using pathos, and directing the arguement towards an idea that this game somehow would become more agressive by letting people use duel instead of getting into heart of the mist. Or simply use a very childish comparison, where as 1 breaks the game while the other one adds to the game.

The only real answer I can get behind, between all these answers, seems to be that there are simply no way to balance the different classes. Guard>Necro>Ele>Guard
and A-Net might not want to pursue duels or deathmatches because of this idea.

Though I gotta admit that I did learn something, seems like that the people are getting more and more scared of the social aspects of the game. As if every small bit of change, could be huge-, since people will be able to duel and that will be the most scary thing ever since they get more aggressive and suddenly spam duel to everyone-.

It is very representing of the current system world wide, specially how the American president got elected. It is very scary how affected people are by every 0,0001% change. though that is beside the point of this thread
I can understand that the devs cant afford changing every balance for a duel or matchmaking system, and very glad I got that answer

Too be honest from the perspective of people who PvP mainly they are aggressive players you generally have to be to PvP through the loss streak and the win streaks, or the bad players especially with all the PvE folks in sPvP this weekend, your mind sets gotta be i can win this regardless of w/e …because my god the amount of people in sPvP that just simply don’t understand the game mode is overwhelming i opted to not pvp for the weekend because of it.

Devs don’t have to balance for 1v1 WoW never did just put a disclaimer that 1v1 are for casual fighting, don’t put it into rank hell don’t give it a single reward people just want to be able to play PvP without having to worry about folk who either don’t know how to play. Or want to fight some one with out some random there or ranger ruining your duel at of no where.

Looking at you conquest.

Yeah exactly, there really shouldnt be any rewards at all, would be so awesome. And I honestly do not believe that some1 will be spamming pvp requests, places like WoW certainly do not.

Why don’t you use the several valid and easy options available now to duel? Or is ganking that important to you?

NO dueling in PvE!

After a post that I did I can see why they didn’t add personal duel. We have players probably like you and me. Where we do not have legendary armor or weapons. I think to get those you can only craft. Don’t think you can buy in the trading Post. So for people who have everything maxed and crafted the materials. We would be murdered each battle. And wouldn’t be fare. And it wouldnt matter even if we had the skill. We would probably win 1. If the person didn’t know what they are doing. But if they did…. It’s gonna be bad. What arena net did is balance everything in PvP and wvw. With duels no balancing. And it would be frustrating to the new people. So arena net left it alone to create everything to play fair. Now if they balanced duels too. Like they did for PvP then it would be cool. But don’t think it will happen.

zengara.8301:

Ok, I kinda get no trading…..even though mailing is riskier

I get no mount…….well tbh I dont necessarily care if they are here or not

But why no dueling? like there is no aspect unless if in a random made up situation this is bad. I have not gotten WoW to lvl 80 so there might be some random thing idk about

But the only thing I can see that might be annoying, is if ur defeating a pve boss and random dude ask for duel………but its no different from asking for party

You can go duel in wvw, spvp, OS and guild halls.. against players who are using pvp builds and gear. Good luck!

The guild arena is actually good for this, even if it does feel a bit “out of the way” for many.

I think another compromise that ANet might look into for the future (mostly for new maps), would be to do as some games have done, and added “Dueling Arenas” to maps. Basically a safe area, where you can stand around and watch the ones fighting, or enter to fight. A good bit like an open world GH Arena.

Doubt it would be worth their time to add something like that to existing maps though (Unless they could recycle some existing arena like areas on maps, like the Norn Arena north of LA in Gendaran Fields)

Swagger.1459:

zengara.8301:

Ok, I kinda get no trading…..even though mailing is riskier

I get no mount…….well tbh I dont necessarily care if they are here or not

But why no dueling? like there is no aspect unless if in a random made up situation this is bad. I have not gotten WoW to lvl 80 so there might be some random thing idk about

But the only thing I can see that might be annoying, is if ur defeating a pve boss and random dude ask for duel………but its no different from asking for party

You can go duel in wvw, spvp, OS and guild halls.. against players who are using pvp builds and gear. Good luck!

See I dont get that logic. OS is mainly vs other servers, where you need to contact another person from another server by blocking this individual first, whisper and then unblocking. The other 2 are mainly through 1-2 loading screens, which does get you out of your current position, very inefficient, furthermore. If you are one of those who dont pvp much, but would rather wvw. Your build is probably not up to par. It is simply clunky and not smooth at all to do this, I get your logic, its not like that there is no ways I can duel. But what I dont get……

Why dont the player want to, is it really that “scary” to add dueling in open world?

zengara.8301:

Swagger.1459:

zengara.8301:

Ok, I kinda get no trading…..even though mailing is riskier

I get no mount…….well tbh I dont necessarily care if they are here or not

But why no dueling? like there is no aspect unless if in a random made up situation this is bad. I have not gotten WoW to lvl 80 so there might be some random thing idk about

But the only thing I can see that might be annoying, is if ur defeating a pve boss and random dude ask for duel………but its no different from asking for party

You can go duel in wvw, spvp, OS and guild halls.. against players who are using pvp builds and gear. Good luck!

See I dont get that logic. OS is mainly vs other servers, where you need to contact another person from another server by blocking this individual first, whisper and then unblocking. The other 2 are mainly through 1-2 loading screens, which does get you out of your current position, very inefficient, furthermore. If you are one of those who dont pvp much, but would rather wvw. Your build is probably not up to par. It is simply clunky and not smooth at all to do this, I get your logic, its not like that there is no ways I can duel. But what I dont get……

Why dont the player want to, is it really that “scary” to add dueling in open world?

Well, most don’t get the logic of needing dueling in pve… against players in their pve build and gear… who have zero interest in pvp stuff… especially in pve.

You have multiple options to duel in areas where you will find like minded players to fight against… Please use them.

zengara.8301:

But is people asking you for a duel, an actual concern for people?

Apparently it is, it’s not like most games give you a way to auto-decline duel requests or anything.

Honestly it’s a much needed feature. My friends and I like dueling each other; a lot. We do it all the time in other games, but having to go through the hassle of tping to the mists, finding an empty arena, teleporting again and hope we can duel without being interrupted by a jerk jumping on us, it’s just too much hassle for a 10 second duel. Especially if all we’re doing is trying to kill time while we sit in que.

blambidy.3216:

After a post that I did I can see why they didn’t add personal duel. We have players probably like you and me. Where we do not have legendary armor or weapons. I think to get those you can only craft. Don’t think you can buy in the trading Post. So for people who have everything maxed and crafted the materials. We would be murdered each battle. And wouldn’t be fare. And it wouldnt matter even if we had the skill. We would probably win 1. If the person didn’t know what they are doing. But if they did…. It’s gonna be bad. What arena net did is balance everything in PvP and wvw. With duels no balancing. And it would be frustrating to the new people. So arena net left it alone to create everything to play fair. Now if they balanced duels too. Like they did for PvP then it would be cool. But don’t think it will happen.

well, your first comment seems to be noting on the gear difference..
In WvW it is PvE gear, and GH is also PvE. Which makes the whole GvG scene PvE gear and stats. I wouldnt want them to make a duel balance, it is quiet simple, people randomly duel in an open field, and there seems to be a lot who wants to be able to do that instead of going out of their way, to Heart of the mists or a GH to get into a map or the GH fighting room, for then to make a quick match that last 30 seconds and then leave again. It is just very annoying, and that makes people not want to do that, which does take away a huge part of fun in PvP

5 of my 6 level 80s were leveled exclusively in WvW and I also love the dynamic play that PvP affords, but the question of open world dueling also involves the idea of “Who would you challenge to a duel?” Usually, people like to win and won’t challenge anyone they don’t think they can beat. Also, why would you even want to duel some random person you don’t even know? Your friends and guild mates can help you practice against certain builds or classes // why the desire to involve complete strangers?

I understand the desire to duel and the annoying way people need to go about doing it currently, but I also don’t understand the desire to duel random strangers. Why? The only thing I can think of is to either prop up your own ego because you challenge someone you believe is easily beaten, or to try to get ‘revenge’ if someone wrongs you somehow in the game (even though kill stealing doesn’t exist here and almost everything is shared contribution). So, why?

I honestly just do not get it, why are people so afraid of Dueling everywhere? What is so scary about it? It can not be the “spams of dueling” that does not happen in any other game, and even if a person asks you for a match, it wont be much different than a random person asking for a party or squad invite

And why differentiating PvE and PvP so heavily? Even if people did PvP, and you hate it, you really would not have to participate, it is basically like forcing another person not to have fun because you do not like that game mode?

zengara.8301:

blambidy.3216:

After a post that I did I can see why they didn’t add personal duel. We have players probably like you and me. Where we do not have legendary armor or weapons. I think to get those you can only craft. Don’t think you can buy in the trading Post. So for people who have everything maxed and crafted the materials. We would be murdered each battle. And wouldn’t be fare. And it wouldnt matter even if we had the skill. We would probably win 1. If the person didn’t know what they are doing. But if they did…. It’s gonna be bad. What arena net did is balance everything in PvP and wvw. With duels no balancing. And it would be frustrating to the new people. So arena net left it alone to create everything to play fair. Now if they balanced duels too. Like they did for PvP then it would be cool. But don’t think it will happen.

well, your first comment seems to be noting on the gear difference..
In WvW it is PvE gear, and GH is also PvE. Which makes the whole GvG scene PvE gear and stats. I wouldnt want them to make a duel balance, it is quiet simple, people randomly duel in an open field, and there seems to be a lot who wants to be able to do that instead of going out of their way, to Heart of the mists or a GH to get into a map or the GH fighting room, for then to make a quick match that last 30 seconds and then leave again. It is just very annoying, and that makes people not want to do that, which does take away a huge part of fun in PvP

What are your wvw and spvp ranks?

the goal of open-world content is, all in all, to make you excited to see another player, to make you happy that someone else showed up. adding a dueling system does not contribute to this goal in any way and debatably goes against it by introducing an entirely opposite element to the pre-existing content.
i, personally, do not think dueling in and of itself would ‘ruin’ open world content, no — i see it as simply a step in the entirely wrong direction. catering to players who want to experience their specific flavor of content outside of its intended area would just muddle the tone of the experience itself. nobody goes into raids expecting to kill enemy players, or sPvP expecting to go exploring. it just makes no sense to implement it when it fails to contribute to the overarching goal or surrounding content in any way.

is it a huge problem if it gets added? not really.
does it make sense for it to exist in open-world PvE? definitely not.

The question could be why are you so afraid to duel people who want to duel in sPvP, WvW and guild halls?

Duelling is fine, but it belongs in pvp modes. It always brings a level of toxicity to games in pve even with an opt out. Open world should eremain a cooperative environment. Anet are generally pretty good at keeping modes separate and I can’t see them ever recoding open world space to be pvp compatible when the appropriate spaces exist

Kaggura.4839:

“Who would you challenge to a duel?” Usually, people like to win and won’t challenge anyone they don’t think they can beat.

There a multiple uses for dueling, a proper “duel” is one, testing a particular ability or combo is another (just ask your friend to stand still or ask him to attack you) or healing output/defensive cooldowns (VERY difficult to even test without dummies that damage you on command).

Dueling isn’t just “I want to prove everyone I’m better than them”, I have no idea how people got this notion.

ok, what if sPvP now all of a sudden get’s a legendary monster killing ppl, would you love that too?

Yea my rank it’s pretty low let’s not mention that XD lol. I just don’t have many people to do wvw with. So I don’t do much wvw. And just started doing ranked PvP. So pretty low also.
True. For me I don’t care about what the other person has. I would just like to duel. But if that’s how arena net is wanting everything balanced I’d see why they hadn’t added that feature yet. But me I would want to duel even if I lose. Dueling is just fun. Cause in PvP you rarely have 1 on 1 moments in a match. Unless you stock them. And wvw u can get more 1 on 1 but sooner or later their is an army coming at you. Dueling 1 on1 would be fun.

Kaggura.4839:

5 of my 6 level 80s were leveled exclusively in WvW and I also love the dynamic play that PvP affords, but the question of open world dueling also involves the idea of “Who would you challenge to a duel?” Usually, people like to win and won’t challenge anyone they don’t think they can beat. Also, why would you even want to duel some random person you don’t even know? Your friends and guild mates can help you practice against certain builds or classes // why the desire to involve complete strangers?

I understand the desire to duel and the annoying way people need to go about doing it currently, but I also don’t understand the desire to duel random strangers. Why? The only thing I can think of is to either prop up your own ego because you challenge someone you believe is easily beaten, or to try to get ‘revenge’ if someone wrongs you somehow in the game (even though kill stealing doesn’t exist here and almost everything is shared contribution). So, why?

Well, today a friend asked me to duel him while I was making minstrel gear in PvE. We did duel, but I had to go through several screen loadouts and some people where in spvp, it was very annoying because all we needed was 1 duel around 30 sec to test his build, but if you have been going through all that, it went up to quiet a lot of matches.

The reason behind “dueling for hate” seems more out of line for me, I can honestly not see a person asking for dueling if that person did him wrong. I can understand if you said ganked or anything along those lines of jumping a person, but to ask dueling a person you really do not like seems weird, might happen idk, but that seems like a very……very rare occasion, where the persons involved already had to have talked about builds etc.

And tbh, if they actually play vs eachother I see a bigger chance of them getting good friends, rather than keeping a boiled arguement heat

sorudo.9054:

ok, what if sPvP now all of a sudden get’s a legendary monster killing ppl, would you love that too?

If it comes with a request I can say no to and even disable entirely on my options menu, sure bring it on.

blambidy.3216:

Yea my rank it’s pretty low let’s not mention that XD lol. I just don’t have many people to do wvw with. So I don’t do much wvw. And just started doing ranked PvP. So pretty low also.
True. For me I don’t care about what the other person has. I would just like to duel. But if that’s how arena net is wanting everything balanced I’d see why they hadn’t added that feature yet. But me I would want to duel even if I lose. Dueling is just fun. Cause in PvP you rarely have 1 on 1 moments in a match. Unless you stock them. And wvw u can get more 1 on 1 but sooner or later their is an army coming at you. Dueling 1 on1 would be fun.

I wasn’t asking you about the ranks, that was for the other poster.

sorudo.9054:

ok, what if sPvP now all of a sudden get’s a legendary monster killing ppl, would you love that too?

I wrote this previously:

“Ive seen the link Inculpatus Cedo. Most of the comments seems rather inadequate. Some circle around a childish reasoning and misuse of the forms of appeal by either using pathos, and directing the arguement towards an idea that this game somehow would become more agressive by letting people use duel instead of getting into heart of the mist. Or simply use a very childish comparison, where as 1 breaks the game while the other one adds to the game.”

Edited:
And tbh….In my perspective, saying this really have nothing to add or take from the argument because it makes no sense to me that I wouldn’t be able to duel someone just because it is not in “PvP zone”
But……SPvP do have monsters, that I have in fact died from….mainly in the beginning or as a thief….but still

sorudo.9054:

ok, what if sPvP now all of a sudden get’s a legendary monster killing ppl, would you love that too?

ANet has been adding, or increasing, PvE elements to SPvP since the game launched. This includes NPCs that must be fought.

zengara.8301:

ok, never thought people actually was deliberately against it, just thought it was one of those arguments like the mounts…..“devs havent done it, so dont ask for it” kind of mentality. I have not seen any spam messages in any other game having a open world duel system.

But is people asking you for a duel, an actual concern for people?

Guildwars is a very different game, with a much different set of design philosophies that guide. Most MMOs design based on “tropes” popularized by either EQ, WoW, or UO, thinking mass market appeal will make up for otherwise lazy, or unimaginative design. Guildwars on the other hand has a tradition of subverting those tropes, or at least distilling the most useful elements out of a design, and putting it to better use.

This experimental approach leads to the game’s very non-traditional approach to nearly everything, and puts purpose over “trends”. You ask the question “why we don’t have it”, but fail to answer the question of “what would we even need it for?”. I’ve played a number of typical MMOs with the Dueling requests, and they honestly fail to make sense since both sides have to agree to a fight, and 99 out of 100 times you’d either set boundaries for the fight, or go to an actual Arena already set up in a nearby town to have that battle. On the flip side, you don’t really wanna fight with someone who will put down what they were doing, and accept random challenges out of the blue. (Because everything from TV, Books, movies and even other games, suggests they’re confidant they’ll beat you, and this is the fastest way to get back to what they were doing).

Now compare that to Open world PVP or Hostility flags. Hostility flags in particular have a useful dynamic, because doing so exposes the player to collateral damage and draws attention from other nearby players. This is usually meant to be a self-policing system to allow PvP actions in an otherwise purely PvE environment, and help settle disputes or tackle disruptive behavior. However, some players leverage it for harassment; which is why most design them in a way to force commitment to Hostile actions. IE: Don’t activate it unless you really intend to follow through with something. While hostile, you become a free target to all non-hostile players. If going hostile to protect other players, most will not interfere if they’re aware of the circumstances. If a hostile player is in that state to be disruptive, then non-hostiles with enough bite can step in to deal with the problem. In some rare cases, hostile flagging is used to setup unconventional arenas using high level mobs as obstacles in the fight (often with a supervisor to warn/explain to other players that might accidentally wander into the arena boundaries).

Open PvP creates a certain type of player Ecosystem, while Hostile tagging creates yet another type of Ecosystem. But in a purely PvE game mode, Dueling doesn’t make any type of practical sense, or get turned down in 99% of all situations where it isn’t organized ahead of time.

Now if you add in the quirks of GW2’s tagging system, theres near zero need for self-policing tools. With this game’s design, loot is rolled on a per character basis, rather then a single “on kill” drop. As a result, there is no competition for drops so long as players can tag a mob with damage. Combine that fact with the dynamic level scaling of characters, and there is very few situations where a player can deny tags to other players by wiping an area too fast.

This tagging system immediately segues into the nature of Dynamic events. Because players have fair odds for a drop, regardless of how many people are present, this fosters a highly cooperative situation, where you can substantially increase the amount of Loot “everyone” gets by simply working together. Prior to this game… I have NEVER seen that seen that concept used outside of an open world boss, and never to this level of effectiveness in shaping player behavior. The ONLY time this ever became an issue is a hand full of events where there is an ulterior motive for a fail condition; even then, its always in the interest of getting better loot from the event that follows the failure.

Which leaves the last remaining fringe case…. Organized Dueling. This is where Heart of the Mists (PvP lobby) steps in, and does a much better job in all but one aspect. It offers areas where players are automatically hostile to each other (facilitating duels with no additional overhead), and gives all players access to sigils, runes, traits, and stat combinations they could ever want, plus gear tiers are normalized (so an incomplete gear set doesn’t prevent you from having a fair duel). The ONLY down side is the lack of granular control over stat distributions; and has been something the player base has been trying to get the Devs to address. Its not a show stopper…. but it does limit build optimization when you only need a small amount of a particular stat.

…

…

So with all those mechanics available, and being the way they are….. there is very little incentive for an open world dueling system. And in pretty much every case were you’d want to request a duel with a player, all it would take is engaging in conversation. And that right there is where a Prompted Duel notice can be a nuance (can be unsolicited), on top of being difficult to find willing participants given the current play context.

There are a few more edge cases I didn’t cover… but those are either rare, or runs counter to the intended game design, and should be addressed directly; rather then have Dueling tacked on to either distract from it, or enable something that should be a fully realized game mechanic/encounter.

With all that said…. I would actually like to see public arena fights incorporated into full blown dynamic event or regional meta, if for no other reason then to present a more casual PvP situation in the spirit of friendly competition (and contribution toward group meta rewards). Theres no denying that sPvP is way too intense, and taken far too seriously for most people to enjoy.

But if you want an example of how this can work in the spirit of PvE mode.

Single or Dual tournament, with qualifying rounds against AI mobs. Its of critical importance that the early fights be against AI contenders, as it serves as a warm up and gives time to let a salty attitude calm down. Special attention also has to be paid to what types of rewards are given, since you don’t want players fixing fights to farm them. The ladder also has to be relatively short (~ 5 rounds for the PvP portion), and cycle fast enough so player aren’t invested more then hour for the bulk of the meta. Given the casual atmosphere, sloppy builds will be common, but does encourage playing with traits for better performance (which is a good thing).

For reward structure, I would say rewards would have to be normalized to purposely favor rounds played for those who want to “farm” rewards, but offer minor bonus for winning the round (either bonus coin, or +1 to the normal item reward). For Tournament winners, that bonus is doubled at the last round.

Now if they really wanted to go all out, you design a World Boss event to attach to the end of the meta. A 3-lane gauntlet supported by siege elements. Now for the gimmick…. players who advanced to the last 2 rounds of the Tournament are given a buff that activates during the Boss event. 2nd Rank gain Veteran status, increasing HP and Damage scaling. Finals runner up Rank gains Elite status, increasing HP and damage scaling plus access to a targeted heavy CC action skill. Finals Winners gain Champ status, increasing HP and damage scaling, a defiance bar, and an AOE action skill that revives downed allies and taunts nearby enemies.
While the siege elements are there to mechanically normalize the event for Commanders to organize, the Tournament buff is a Power Play advantage (basically light siege) for the lanes those players join in. In PUG situations, this improves the overall odds of success (added DPS, and more durable)…. but in an organized map, those players can be leveraged for speed runs or making boss meta achievements easier for the group.
If you think about it…. its not too far off the Armor challenges in the Octovine meta. The lack of Golden armor doesn’t prevent the meta from succeeding, but it does make things a little easier.

Swagger.1459:

So what prevents players from setting up “fight clubs” in event/meta areas and trolling other players and taking up pop spots?

Anyone can do that right now without any dueling systems tho.

zengara.8301:

ok, never thought people actually was deliberately against it, just thought it was one of those arguments like the mounts…..“devs havent done it, so dont ask for it” kind of mentality. I have not seen any spam messages in any other game having a open world duel system.

But is people asking you for a duel, an actual concern for people?

No, there are many ppl who wants dueling, same way there are other people who dont want dueling while they want their own stuff… In the end it is up to us the players to keep reminding Anet that they need to add dueling in open world sooner or later, and all will be good! We all get a piece of the cake sooner or later, next up is the mount crowd.

It’s time to make MMORPGs more social

MMOs are social games. So why do they sometimes seem to work so hard to punish you for playing with other players? If I’m out hunting and another player walks by, shouldn’t I welcome his help, rather than worrying that he’s going to steal my kills or consume all the mobs I wanted to kill? Or if I want to play with someone, shouldn’t we naturally have the same goals and objectives, rather than discovering that we’re in the same area but working on a different set of quests?

We think of GW2 as the first MMO that actually has a cooperative PvE experience.

…

Of course GW2 has great support for parties, but they just don’t feel as necessary as they do in other MMOs, because your interests are always aligned with all other nearby players anyway.

…

We even redesigned the competitive part of the game to be friendly like this.

Not really a self-proclaimed tenet of GW2.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guild-wars-2-design-manifesto/

Genesis.5169:

Swagger.1459:

Genesis.5169:

Swagger.1459:

zengara.8301:

Eve.9812:

the goal of open-world content is, all in all, to make you excited to see another player, to make you happy that someone else showed up. adding a dueling system does not contribute to this goal in any way and debatably goes against it by introducing an entirely opposite element to the pre-existing content.
i, personally, do not think dueling in and of itself would ‘ruin’ open world content, no — i see it as simply a step in the entirely wrong direction. catering to players who want to experience their specific flavor of content outside of its intended area would just muddle the tone of the experience itself. nobody goes into raids expecting to kill enemy players, or sPvP expecting to go exploring. it just makes no sense to implement it when it fails to contribute to the overarching goal or surrounding content in any way.

is it a huge problem if it gets added? not really.
does it make sense for it to exist in open-world PvE? definitely not.

You begin your arguement with a selfproclaimed reasoning for open world content. I agree that being happy to see another player is a part of the open world content…while attacking a boss, or doing certain hearts…..in some regards. But saying that it is the main reason, is quiet wrong. Beside the ideology of this game having a lot of tasks that do not depend on any other player….like jumping puzzle, random hearts that require you to deliver xx things……or transforming you and stuff……the whole MMORPG genre did not make this a reason in anyway. I am sorry to say this, but I have written around 5 lines now, and this whole comment simply seems out of line on so many things, that I honestly do not know how to….sorry to say….but take this comment seriously. But the goal to open world content never really had been about being happy to meet other players, in any mmorpg, Gw2 did make a statement that they want to pursue the idea of making defeating a minion a shared experience……but yeah I will just stop here…because wow xD

Seriously? Pve is for pve here. The devs made a decision to create pure pve zones where players help each other, not so they could duel and troll. But luckily for you there are areas to duel, so use them.

Since you ignored… What are your wvw and spvp ranks?

How can you duel a and troll a person who declined your duel. I hate when people make up really weird excuses that have really merit what so ever.

It takes two people to dual not one, you gotta accept me trolling you before i can’t troll you which is a pretty fair arrangement tbh.

Riiiight….

So what prevents players from setting up “fight clubs” in event/meta areas and trolling other players and taking up pop spots?

Take the duel stuff to where the devs made dueling a possibility…

Wait what?
Even if that’s case tagging in the game is really forgiving and loot is individual. And do you mean by trolling people?

No seriously i don’t understand how dueling equates to people getting trolled I don’t know how this path gets there if you could explain this in detail which me appreciated.

Just add WHY on earth would some dual in meta area’s where AI mobs can come in and ruin the fight.

Time to get over it… No dueling in pve. Go to wvw, spvp, os and guild halls for your hot dueling action…

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

It’s time to make MMORPGs more social

MMOs are social games. So why do they sometimes seem to work so hard to punish you for playing with other players? If I’m out hunting and another player walks by, shouldn’t I welcome his help, rather than worrying that he’s going to steal my kills or consume all the mobs I wanted to kill? Or if I want to play with someone, shouldn’t we naturally have the same goals and objectives, rather than discovering that we’re in the same area but working on a different set of quests?

We think of GW2 as the first MMO that actually has a cooperative PvE experience.

…

Of course GW2 has great support for parties, but they just don’t feel as necessary as they do in other MMOs, because your interests are always aligned with all other nearby players anyway.

…

We even redesigned the competitive part of the game to be friendly like this.

Not really a self-proclaimed tenet of GW2.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guild-wars-2-design-manifesto/

Yeah exactly, as I wrote previously. It is not THE goal of open world content in any MMORPG, but it is indeed something that the Gw2 team stated that they worked on. Having an open world that lets you play with others and target a minion together without being ripped the chance of losing loot is very good, and also one of the key points of playing Gw2 in the beginning. But I gotta ask, what does this have to do with my thread?

zengara.8301:

I honestly just do not get it, why are people so afraid of Dueling everywhere? What is so scary about it?

Your attempts to bait people by repeatedly talking about “afraid” and “scary” are hilarious. No one who has answered this thread has said “cause I’m scared”. Most people have given logical reasons why they don’t think its a good idea.

But if “why you so scared” is the best argument you have…

Pretty much the only good point to not have dueling is no longer relevant since the mount announcement.

Djinn.9245:

zengara.8301:

I honestly just do not get it, why are people so afraid of Dueling everywhere? What is so scary about it?

Your attempts to bait people by repeatedly talking about “afraid” and “scary” are hilarious. No one who has answered this thread has said “cause I’m scared”. Most people have given logical reasons why they don’t think its a good idea.

But if “why you so scared” is the best argument you have…

I’m interested in your views can you explain to me why your against dueling?

Swagger.1459:

Genesis.5169:

Swagger.1459:

Genesis.5169:

Swagger.1459:

zengara.8301:

Eve.9812:

the goal of open-world content is, all in all, to make you excited to see another player, to make you happy that someone else showed up. adding a dueling system does not contribute to this goal in any way and debatably goes against it by introducing an entirely opposite element to the pre-existing content.
i, personally, do not think dueling in and of itself would ‘ruin’ open world content, no — i see it as simply a step in the entirely wrong direction. catering to players who want to experience their specific flavor of content outside of its intended area would just muddle the tone of the experience itself. nobody goes into raids expecting to kill enemy players, or sPvP expecting to go exploring. it just makes no sense to implement it when it fails to contribute to the overarching goal or surrounding content in any way.

is it a huge problem if it gets added? not really.
does it make sense for it to exist in open-world PvE? definitely not.

You begin your arguement with a selfproclaimed reasoning for open world content. I agree that being happy to see another player is a part of the open world content…while attacking a boss, or doing certain hearts…..in some regards. But saying that it is the main reason, is quiet wrong. Beside the ideology of this game having a lot of tasks that do not depend on any other player….like jumping puzzle, random hearts that require you to deliver xx things……or transforming you and stuff……the whole MMORPG genre did not make this a reason in anyway. I am sorry to say this, but I have written around 5 lines now, and this whole comment simply seems out of line on so many things, that I honestly do not know how to….sorry to say….but take this comment seriously. But the goal to open world content never really had been about being happy to meet other players, in any mmorpg, Gw2 did make a statement that they want to pursue the idea of making defeating a minion a shared experience……but yeah I will just stop here…because wow xD

Seriously? Pve is for pve here. The devs made a decision to create pure pve zones where players help each other, not so they could duel and troll. But luckily for you there are areas to duel, so use them.

Since you ignored… What are your wvw and spvp ranks?

How can you duel a and troll a person who declined your duel. I hate when people make up really weird excuses that have really merit what so ever.

It takes two people to dual not one, you gotta accept me trolling you before i can’t troll you which is a pretty fair arrangement tbh.

Riiiight….

So what prevents players from setting up “fight clubs” in event/meta areas and trolling other players and taking up pop spots?

Take the duel stuff to where the devs made dueling a possibility…

Wait what?
Even if that’s case tagging in the game is really forgiving and loot is individual. And do you mean by trolling people?

No seriously i don’t understand how dueling equates to people getting trolled I don’t know how this path gets there if you could explain this in detail which me appreciated.

Just add WHY on earth would some dual in meta area’s where AI mobs can come in and ruin the fight.

Time to get over it… No dueling in pve. Go to wvw, spvp, os and guild halls for your hot dueling action…

So basically the argument you have for against it is, its not there so yeah there’s that? I would appreciate your opinion because this is one of those things that impact no one but people who want to duel.

At worst it may take people outside of cities and have more people lobby at the gate instead like in every other mmo i just can’t understand where you guys are coming from i really am interested in why your so against it.

[/quote]

Guildwars is a very different game, with a much different set of design philosophies that guide. Most MMOs design based on “tropes” popularized by either EQ, WoW, or UO, thinking mass market appeal will make up for otherwise lazy, or unimaginative design. Guildwars on the other hand has a tradition of subverting those tropes, or at least distilling the most useful elements out of a design, and putting it to better use.

…[/quote]

Since this is a very long message, I have decided to responding line by line and also cut it short since only 600 characters can be used:

It is very true that in 2012 Gw2 was very innovative based on the ideology of letting people fight the same monsters, explore and also they very smooth way of progressing, but it is currently 2017 and a lot of the games, also some of those you mentioned, did go towards what Gw already provided, while Gw2 have gone back to the ideology of “chasing a carrot” there is no denying that Gw2 have made these meta due to the fact that they need people to grind, repeat the same content over and over. So even though they have been very innovating and different, the game does seem to blend more and more in with the rest of the genre games, based on gear that is hard to get (not talking about ascended that does give you 10% increase in dmg, but viper, minstreal etc that will take people at least a month to complete).

I have also been in a lot of MMORPG’s that do have dueling as an option, in most cases, all the people are simply testing their gear/build for fun, or seeing someone very strong and wanting to see if they can beat that person, etc without going into an official fight, or going to wvw/battlegrounds to find a random person that might or might not be alone.

I never liked the open world PvE, in most games I have played, it supports the idea of “pay to win”. Though most mmorpgs I have played seems to have been free to play. Either way, putting up a place where you can battle, is fine like in WvW, but you are not dueling, you are ganking here. You are simply jumping in and trying to charge/shoot/stealth and kill as fast as possible, or help some of your team mates. I find this as being a very annoying way to battle, since it does truly depend on gear or numbers of targets id we believe gear is same for them all. (honestly I find it a cowardly way to pvp on, it is truly just a way to gank others and nothing more)

The main downside if not being able to duel, or going to an organized map, is to leave what ever you were doing, just to test a build on this organized place. It does not truly show anything because as you wrote, people can not use all the stats that are provided in PvE. But even if they were to go to a GH, it is just way to unnecessarily complicated, specially if you could just press 2 buttons to test a friends build out, or if you see an amazing match between 2 players and you want to test the winner out.
_______________________________________________________________

I have passed through a part of your comment that just described the situation of PvE/loot etc

zengara.8301:

Eve.9812:

the goal of open-world content is, all in all, to make you excited to see another player, to make you happy that someone else showed up. adding a dueling system does not contribute to this goal in any way and debatably goes against it by introducing an entirely opposite element to the pre-existing content.
i, personally, do not think dueling in and of itself would ‘ruin’ open world content, no — i see it as simply a step in the entirely wrong direction. catering to players who want to experience their specific flavor of content outside of its intended area would just muddle the tone of the experience itself. nobody goes into raids expecting to kill enemy players, or sPvP expecting to go exploring. it just makes no sense to implement it when it fails to contribute to the overarching goal or surrounding content in any way.

is it a huge problem if it gets added? not really.
does it make sense for it to exist in open-world PvE? definitely not.

You begin your arguement with a selfproclaimed reasoning for open world content. I agree that being happy to see another player is a part of the open world content…while attacking a boss, or doing certain hearts…..in some regards. But saying that it is the main reason, is quiet wrong. Beside the ideology of this game having a lot of tasks that do not depend on any other player….like jumping puzzle, random hearts that require you to deliver xx things……or transforming you and stuff……the whole MMORPG genre did not make this a reason in anyway. I am sorry to say this, but I have written around 5 lines now, and this whole comment simply seems out of line on so many things, that I honestly do not know how to….sorry to say….but take this comment seriously. But the goal to open world content never really had been about being happy to meet other players, in any mmorpg, Gw2 did make a statement that they want to pursue the idea of making defeating a minion a shared experience……but yeah I will just stop here…because wow xD

You claimed it was self-proclaimed, and a comment that can not be taken seriously. I posted that it was ArenaNet’s claim and core game tenet, and should be taken quite seriously. That’s what it has to do with this thread.

starlinvf.1358:

…

So with all those mechanics available, and being the way they are….. there is very little incentive for an open world dueling system. And in pretty much every case were you’d want to request a duel with a player, all it would take is engaging in conversation. And that right there is where a Prompted Duel notice can be a nuance (can be unsolicited), on top of being difficult to find willing participants given the current play context.

There are a few more edge cases I didn’t cover… but those are either rare, or runs counter to the intended game design, and should be addressed directly; rather then have Dueling tacked on to either distract from it, or enable something that should be a fully realized game mechanic/encounter.

With all that said…. I would actually like to see public arena fights incorporated into full blown dynamic event or regional meta, if for no other reason then to present a more casual PvP situation in the spirit of friendly competition (and contribution toward group meta rewards). Theres no denying that sPvP is way too intense, and taken far too seriously for most people to enjoy.

But if you want an example of how this can work in the spirit of PvE mode.

Single or Dual tournament, with qualifying rounds against AI mobs. Its of critical importance that the early fights be against AI contenders, as it serves as a warm up and gives time to let a salty attitude calm down. Special attention also has to be paid to what types of rewards are given, since you don’t want players fixing fights to farm them. The ladder also has to be relatively short (~ 5 rounds for the PvP portion), and cycle fast enough so player aren’t invested more then hour for the bulk of the meta. Given the casual atmosphere, sloppy builds will be common, but does encourage playing with traits for better performance (which is a good thing).

For reward structure, I would say rewards would have to be normalized to purposely favor rounds played for those who want to “farm” rewards, but offer minor bonus for winning the round (either bonus coin, or +1 to the normal item reward). For Tournament winners, that bonus is doubled at the last round.

Now if they really wanted to go all out, you design a World Boss event to attach to the end of the meta. A 3-lane gauntlet supported by siege elements. Now for the gimmick…. players who advanced to the last 2 rounds of the Tournament are given a buff that activates during the Boss event. 2nd Rank gain Veteran status, increasing HP and Damage scaling. Finals runner up Rank gains Elite status, increasing HP and damage scaling plus access to a targeted heavy CC action skill. Finals Winners gain Champ status, increasing HP and damage scaling, a defiance bar, and an AOE action skill that revives downed allies and taunts nearby enemies.
While the siege elements are there to mechanically normalize the event for Commanders to organize, the Tournament buff is a Power Play advantage (basically light siege) for the lanes those players join in. In PUG situations, this improves the overall odds of success (added DPS, and more durable)…. but in an organized map, those players can be leveraged for speed runs or making boss meta achievements easier for the group.
If you think about it…. its not too far off the Armor challenges in the Octovine meta. The lack of Golden armor doesn’t prevent the meta from succeeding, but it does make things a little easier.

soo…..I mean……..as I understood it, you mean that developers creating a duel would be unessecary time consument, you would instead see something else. Like a map filled with small tournaments where it begins with fighting mobs and then people would improve?
Please do correct me if wrong, but sounds like you are saying: “Duels? naah kitten that, to ez and waste of time…..lets make a map filled with only duels where people fight each other all the time” xD
If you are, I am definitely not against the idea, but this thread is kinda about duel implemented to the game, and not what would be better to implement xD

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

zengara.8301:

Eve.9812:

the goal of open-world content is, all in all, to make you excited to see another player, to make you happy that someone else showed up. adding a dueling system does not contribute to this goal in any way and debatably goes against it by introducing an entirely opposite element to the pre-existing content.
i, personally, do not think dueling in and of itself would ‘ruin’ open world content, no — i see it as simply a step in the entirely wrong direction. catering to players who want to experience their specific flavor of content outside of its intended area would just muddle the tone of the experience itself. nobody goes into raids expecting to kill enemy players, or sPvP expecting to go exploring. it just makes no sense to implement it when it fails to contribute to the overarching goal or surrounding content in any way.

is it a huge problem if it gets added? not really.
does it make sense for it to exist in open-world PvE? definitely not.

You begin your arguement with a selfproclaimed reasoning for open world content. I agree that being happy to see another player is a part of the open world content…while attacking a boss, or doing certain hearts…..in some regards. But saying that it is the main reason, is quiet wrong. Beside the ideology of this game having a lot of tasks that do not depend on any other player….like jumping puzzle, random hearts that require you to deliver xx things……or transforming you and stuff……the whole MMORPG genre did not make this a reason in anyway. I am sorry to say this, but I have written around 5 lines now, and this whole comment simply seems out of line on so many things, that I honestly do not know how to….sorry to say….but take this comment seriously. But the goal to open world content never really had been about being happy to meet other players, in any mmorpg, Gw2 did make a statement that they want to pursue the idea of making defeating a minion a shared experience……but yeah I will just stop here…because wow xD

You claimed it was self-proclaimed, and a comment that can not be taken seriously. I posted that it was ArenaNet’s claim and core game tenet, and should be taken quite seriously. That’s what it has to do with this thread.

Again, sorry but I wrote
“But the goal to open world content never really had been about being happy to meet other players, in any mmorpg, Gw2 did make a statement that they want to pursue the idea of making defeating a minion a shared experience”

It is a statement that they have wanted to be part of the experience, yes. But the expression “Open World Content” does not mean, being happy to see another player. Sorry if I offended anyone along the way

zengara.8301:

sorudo.9054:

ok, what if sPvP now all of a sudden get’s a legendary monster killing ppl, would you love that too?

I wrote this previously:

“Ive seen the link Inculpatus Cedo. Most of the comments seems rather inadequate. Some circle around a childish reasoning and misuse of the forms of appeal by either using pathos, and directing the arguement towards an idea that this game somehow would become more agressive by letting people use duel instead of getting into heart of the mist. Or simply use a very childish comparison, where as 1 breaks the game while the other one adds to the game.”

Edited:
And tbh….In my perspective, saying this really have nothing to add or take from the argument because it makes no sense to me that I wouldn’t be able to duel someone just because it is not in “PvP zone”
But……SPvP do have monsters, that I have in fact died from….mainly in the beginning or as a thief….but still

actually it does, adding PvP in PvE has the same effect as adding PvE in PvP.
we can just turn it all around, have zergs of monsters in PvP with veteran, elite and champion monsters walking around in PvP maps killing any and all players in their path.

what i see is the pathetic childish behavior to force PvP in PvE, there are already 2 modes specifically made for PvP yet there is a need to ruin the only single mode made for PvE with yet another PvP mode.
like others have said, there are plenty of modes allowing you to PvP each other to death, we PvE-only players want nothing to do with it.

seriously, you act as if PvP is the one thing that is fun, if you like PvP so much play games made for PvP but don’t ruin others fun by forcing yours.

sorudo.9054:

zengara.8301:

sorudo.9054:

ok, what if sPvP now all of a sudden get’s a legendary monster killing ppl, would you love that too?

I wrote this previously:

“Ive seen the link Inculpatus Cedo. Most of the comments seems rather inadequate. Some circle around a childish reasoning and misuse of the forms of appeal by either using pathos, and directing the arguement towards an idea that this game somehow would become more agressive by letting people use duel instead of getting into heart of the mist. Or simply use a very childish comparison, where as 1 breaks the game while the other one adds to the game.”

Edited:
And tbh….In my perspective, saying this really have nothing to add or take from the argument because it makes no sense to me that I wouldn’t be able to duel someone just because it is not in “PvP zone”
But……SPvP do have monsters, that I have in fact died from….mainly in the beginning or as a thief….but still

actually it does, adding PvP in PvE has the same effect as adding PvE in PvP.
we can just turn it all around, have zergs of monsters in PvP with veteran, elite and champion monsters walking around in PvP maps killing any and all players in their path.

what i see is the pathetic childish behavior to force PvP in PvE, there are already 2 modes specifically made for PvP yet there is a need to ruin the only single mode made for PvE with yet another PvP mode.
like others have said, there are plenty of modes allowing you to PvP each other to death, we PvE-only players want nothing to do with it.

seriously, you act as if PvP is the one thing that is fun, if you like PvP so much play games made for PvP but don’t ruin others fun by forcing yours.

Dueling would have zero effect on PvE players because it’s 100% optional.

The idea of dueling has been proposed a number of times. Often, posters have explained why they like dueling in games. Sometimes, they’ve even tried to work with people who disagree, folks who see it as a distraction to the core game, folks who’d rather see ANet work on stuff, and folks who see it as undermining a core ‘feature’ of the game: cooperative PvE.

That doesn’t appear to be the case here. Instead of having a conversation, one poster can’t seem to offer more than, “the criticisms are inadequate” or “childish” and that people are against it because they are “scared.” There’s no way to have a conversation when someone is that unwilling to consider other points of view.

I’ll make one attempt to make my view clear: devs have limited resources; they can only work on some of the great ideas we suggest. Based on threads like this, it seems the dueling is incredibly popular among a tiny fraction of the population, rejected out of hand by a large fraction, and a majority probably don’t care if it’s in GW2 or not. I think there are so many other ideas that the majority would love to see or even just that the fraction of “yes, please” is larger than the fraction of “over my defeated character.”

Given that I’ve been wrong about such things before (e.g. I thought raids would be bad for the game; turns out they’ve been, on balance, great), I’m keeping an open mind about how ANet would implement something like dueling; it might be good.

Or in brief, it’s not at the top of the list for best cost:benefit for the community as a whole. Seems like a good feature for other games, but probably not GW2.