worst boring ESL ever?...
Every ESL is the worst ESL ever
YouTube
not at all
i remember tactics and rotations etc..
now it all about pure dmg 4v1 mainly the necro or moa ranger fast
I seen a lot of strategy, different 2v2, tactics on cover the map, conquering all the points and don’t let the enemy have time to breath.
I seen good matches.
Then, see others play os always boring after a lot, but there was fast matches, tactics and team coordination.
About the necro, yes, it’s always the first and faster to take down, like always.
It’s was fun…still anet has long road to make ESL watchable for less hardcore players but they are improving….viewship also seems to improve…I wonder how esl will look like when new elite specs will be released.
That last round Denial vs Rank 55…superb match.
Kawaleria (KW)
not at all
i remember tactics and rotations etc..now it all about pure dmg 4v1 mainly the necro or moa ranger fast
no, you must of missed alot of the 1 vs 1 that turned into 2 vs 2. Like NL vs TCG in the kylo map. You see kitten run off to decap cap far and Rom is in a full 3 vs 3 and he leaves the fight to run to where kitten is. With a player from mid going to where rom was since that mid fight is where kitten just left from.
It had maybe 5 sec of air time before they started talking about the fight. These are huge rotations and adjustments in game for fights. There are alot of these movements happening alot and most of the people watching dont see it.
These are still the same teams from previous big events, the same players who dominated solo que and the same players who have put more time into PvP then most of us have done all game.
Literally nothing different here from previous events other then of course a new meta which IMO is the worst meta other then season 1 and maybe the D/D god era. These games are being played like chess, moving players to not only win this upcoming fight but to hold it and win the next fight and hold that point without giving anything up.
not at all
i remember tactics and rotations etc..now it all about pure dmg 4v1 mainly the necro or moa ranger fast
no, you must of missed alot of the 1 vs 1 that turned into 2 vs 2. Like NL vs TCG in the kylo map. You see kitten run off to decap cap far and Rom is in a full 3 vs 3 and he leaves the fight to run to where kitten is. With a player from mid going to where rom was since that mid fight is where kitten just left from.
It had maybe 5 sec of air time before they started talking about the fight. These are huge rotations and adjustments in game for fights. There are alot of these movements happening alot and most of the people watching dont see it.
These are still the same teams from previous big events, the same players who dominated solo que and the same players who have put more time into PvP then most of us have done all game.
Literally nothing different here from previous events other then of course a new meta which IMO is the worst meta other then season 1 and maybe the D/D god era. These games are being played like chess, moving players to not only win this upcoming fight but to hold it and win the next fight and hold that point without giving anything up.
i dont say there is no tactic at all but most of fight were like this
every one start with stealth stacking
target necro and 4v1 burst
try to kill more or disengage
if you manage to kill more than wait on their respawn and kill them 1 by 1 (hot join) denial ele for example who port back but walk down and got killed
almost no comeback fights as we used to see this season (maybe only 1 or 2)
ele moving only with group so mainly druid doing rotation which where i needed to heal
yes it as fun but boring and as helseth said EASY
burst boring meta and the one who burst first mostly wins
It’s was fun…still anet has long road to make ESL watchable for less hardcore players but they are improving….viewship also seems to improve…I wonder how esl will look like when new elite specs will be released.
That last round Denial vs Rank 55…superb match.
Only the 1st map of the final was good the rest were mundane. As for viewership it hasn’t improved at all its probably worse.
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
not at all
i remember tactics and rotations etc..now it all about pure dmg 4v1 mainly the necro or moa ranger fast
no, you must of missed alot of the 1 vs 1 that turned into 2 vs 2. Like NL vs TCG in the kylo map. You see kitten run off to decap cap far and Rom is in a full 3 vs 3 and he leaves the fight to run to where kitten is. With a player from mid going to where rom was since that mid fight is where kitten just left from.
It had maybe 5 sec of air time before they started talking about the fight. These are huge rotations and adjustments in game for fights. There are alot of these movements happening alot and most of the people watching dont see it.
These are still the same teams from previous big events, the same players who dominated solo que and the same players who have put more time into PvP then most of us have done all game.
Literally nothing different here from previous events other then of course a new meta which IMO is the worst meta other then season 1 and maybe the D/D god era. These games are being played like chess, moving players to not only win this upcoming fight but to hold it and win the next fight and hold that point without giving anything up.
i dont say there is no tactic at all but most of fight were like this
every one start with stealth stacking
target necro and 4v1 burst
try to kill more or disengage
if you manage to kill more than wait on their respawn and kill them 1 by 1 (hot join) denial ele for example who port back but walk down and got killed
almost no comeback fights as we used to see this season (maybe only 1 or 2)
ele moving only with group so mainly druid doing rotation which where i needed to healyes it as fun but boring and as helseth said EASY
burst boring meta and the one who burst first mostly wins
About the stealth stacking at start, you’re unsure if whether your bursts will suceed or not so I find the plays thereafter interesting.
As for everything else, it’s pretty close to a diversified team composition. If there were more teams we’d see more Wars, Guards, etc.
I didn’t find anything particularly boring this WTS. The previous Cele Meta as a whole was 3x boring in comparison.
Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
#5 best gerdien in wurld
Well did anny team run without druid and/or revenant ?
not at all
i remember tactics and rotations etc..now it all about pure dmg 4v1 mainly the necro or moa ranger fast
no, you must of missed alot of the 1 vs 1 that turned into 2 vs 2. Like NL vs TCG in the kylo map. You see kitten run off to decap cap far and Rom is in a full 3 vs 3 and he leaves the fight to run to where kitten is. With a player from mid going to where rom was since that mid fight is where kitten just left from.
It had maybe 5 sec of air time before they started talking about the fight. These are huge rotations and adjustments in game for fights. There are alot of these movements happening alot and most of the people watching dont see it.
These are still the same teams from previous big events, the same players who dominated solo que and the same players who have put more time into PvP then most of us have done all game.
Literally nothing different here from previous events other then of course a new meta which IMO is the worst meta other then season 1 and maybe the D/D god era. These games are being played like chess, moving players to not only win this upcoming fight but to hold it and win the next fight and hold that point without giving anything up.
i dont say there is no tactic at all but most of fight were like this
every one start with stealth stacking
target necro and 4v1 burst
try to kill more or disengage
if you manage to kill more than wait on their respawn and kill them 1 by 1 (hot join) denial ele for example who port back but walk down and got killed
almost no comeback fights as we used to see this season (maybe only 1 or 2)
ele moving only with group so mainly druid doing rotation which where i needed to healyes it as fun but boring and as helseth said EASY
burst boring meta and the one who burst first mostly wins
I think i understand what you are saying now with the huge group fights but thats the meta Anet created. With the way revives work and how long all 1 vs 1 fights seem to go it really does become the only strategy.
2-3 support characters with 1 dps since we cant have pure support/bunker/ specialist builds anymore.
So i guess i understand in a way but you cant take anything the players say since just like anything else they only see it from there perspective and they were fortunate to win 3-1 against Rank 55.
Well did anny team run without druid and/or revenant ?
nope
Only the 1st map of the final was good the rest were mundane. As for viewership it hasn’t improved at all its probably worse.
Could you back this with some numbers?
Kawaleria (KW)
They need to do away with timers in tournament play.
it was very good els. one of the best. Interesting that meta went into train weakest enemy (necro), instead of 3 point duels. Is it because mesmer and druid have too much mobility?
it was very good els. one of the best. Interesting that meta went into train weakest enemy (necro), instead of 3 point duels. Is it because mesmer and druid have too much mobility?
Probably due to the removal of bunker amulets. It’s no longer feasible at higher play to bunk points, so it’s all about the kills now.
it was very good els. one of the best. Interesting that meta went into train weakest enemy (necro), instead of 3 point duels. Is it because mesmer and druid have too much mobility?
Probably due to the removal of bunker amulets. It’s no longer feasible at higher play to bunk points, so it’s all about the kills now.
Its different for sure, but i kinda like that kills mean more in pvp, instead of just bunkering points, which they still play around, so it was nice balance imo.
It was a lot of action and long games, some of which were very close.
It also may bring diversity, some teams might try the bunker strats while others go for kills, instead of everyone being one composition, with slight tweaks.
(edited by Vykoz.7803)
The Denial VS 55, i think 4th game? was the best this season. denial got save by the bell/timer literally -rom
Black Gate
Ruthless Legend
This esl was very good.
What you interpret as hotjoin is how the game is played at a high tier. The teams are so good that outnumbered fights are impossible. Everything they do is about getting a numbers advantage on the field.
For me it was the best final to watch so far. GW2 PvP is not the best game to watch but I feel it is improving. There was not so much switching from one character to another in matches. Showing builds of players was way to short as always. Players builds should be available via a web site at runtime. There were differences to meta builds that you cannot spot in 3 seconds casters show them.
Every event there seems something “special”. This time all matches were centered around necro playing one of two signed builds. Though I guess the more offensive necro variant is no fun in soloqueue. Other interesting thing I noticed was the absence of warriors and guardians.
it was very good els. one of the best. Interesting that meta went into train weakest enemy (necro), instead of 3 point duels. Is it because mesmer and druid have too much mobility?
Probably due to the removal of bunker amulets. It’s no longer feasible at higher play to bunk points, so it’s all about the kills now.
Its different for sure, but i kinda like that kills mean more in pvp, instead of just bunkering points, which they still play around, so it was nice balance imo.
It was a lot of action and long games, some of which were very close.
It also may bring diversity, some teams might try the bunker strats while others go for kills, instead of everyone being one composition, with slight tweaks.
This is incorrect, in WTS 2 ORNG won they way they did by winning the Zerg fights and forcing the action. the Abjured won by spacing people out and trying to out space opponents. This is also back when teams like Radio Active where running 4 bunkers with 1 DPS thief.
All im saying is diversity in a sport of any kind comes with styles. Before HOT teams could win with any class and any style.
Every team in this tournament had 3 support characters because you cant run anything else. 75% of the game is team fights and rezzing which is why engy trait for rez, ranger trait for rez, necro uses a well to try and stops rez and engy uses 2 gyros just for rezzing and chaith actually went outside the box for using it and can be easily countered for trying it.
You wrote that it can bring build diversity which is terribly wrong. This whole thread is about the lack of actual game play and styles of play.
I originally wrote on it to argue that tactics of it and that there is more rotations and skilled game play then it was in S1 and S2 of HOT but overall this is the 2nd or 3rd worst meta the game has had behind S1 mesmer bunker season and the D/D era.
If you go back and watch WTS1 and WTS 2 you can see different roles, different styles of game play and i believe in WTS 2 every class is being used in the game and every class brought something unique to the table.
You will not see build diversity when players can be 1 shot or cant be killed which has been the story of HOT GW2.
yes it as fun but boring and as helseth said EASY
burst boring meta and the one who burst first mostly wins
And to think not long ago it was
“Bunker boring meta. No one dies!”
Can’t please everyone I guess.
“Buff my main class, nerf everything else. "
Too much aoe + small capture points → boring zergfights that only get interesting with a handful of 1v1 situations thrown in.
I watched first day, after that I quit following, because lets be honest… theres way more interesting things you can do with your time, than watching the same rotations over and over.
Actually this is sort of a strategy. For example VM vs AA, there were a few occasions where all of VM was fighting all of AA but Toker had no place in this fight and everything else was uncapped. So he had to go away and full cap. But during this time, his team was destroyed because of 4v5.
This was a great strategy to take care of the thief: force a total team fight.
But I agree, the meta was very weird and almost reminded me of season 1. Huge team fight AOE kitten, instant rez, rince and repeat. The only difference (which made it very much more enjoyable): people died very very fast once outnumbered instead of a continued stalemate until the enemy respawned like in season 1.
Then we had nice regroups, portal bombs, etc etc. A lot of strategies, just no significant focus on capping.
How can esl be exciting when you 99,999999999999% know for certain who is gonna win. And then they prove their winning streak.
Only very short time i had excitement, was when they almost lost a match and the timer saved them (now i’m suddenly of opinion timers give tanky – aka ROM like – comps to much advantage, time to remove timers).
Very bad ESL with pre-determinted victory.
No excuse anymore for not giving ‘hide mounts’-option
No thanks to unidentified weapons.
yes it as fun but boring and as helseth said EASY
burst boring meta and the one who burst first mostly winsAnd to think not long ago it was
“Bunker boring meta. No one dies!”
Can’t please everyone I guess.
its not about pleasing . i also didnt like the bunker mesmer meta or the ele meta
but when you have a game which design to burst ppl fast to win without any consideration or rotations at all anet needs to look for it
is seems that the fights design more to the courtyard and not conquest. you can actually see teams wait on the gate of the enemy to respawns. common
and even if the enemy had 2 cap it didnt matter as lets kill 3 of them and decap it later as killing is more rewarding than capping
i saw some rotation where one team had 2 point and leave it to try to kill the other team instead on staying on the point. is means something. they gave more meaning to fighting than holding the cap… which means more bursty meta
this is why i said boring . cause anything else isnt important now
you cannot send 1 guy the bunker a point so the enemy have to think should i spend 2v1 or try to go someplace else. so you end with skirmish fights which more appropriate to the courtyard map
if anet is reading i have the perfect easy solution
do 3 fights
1. conquest design
2. courtyard design
3. new design map (you introduce and we have to w8 and see)
than you can surly stay with what ever builds and group will have to adjust the builds according to the map role.
so bunker can be buffed little to fit in the conquest map and so on
also i wrote boring ESL not the worst ESL
also i wrote boring ESL not the worst ESL
lol actually you wrote “worst boring” so i think its a good way to talk about both.
All that off point fighting, they seriously need to l2p. </sarcasm>
Anet went and did what Anet does. They made a huge change without counter-adjusting to lessen the blow.
Result → lopsided meta (dps meta now, bunker meta after hot release).
Sometimes I really wonder about the balancing process… and then I remind myself… its Anet. There is no process. They just go and nerfhammer or buffhammer stuff.
Hence, lopsided balancing. And hence… no big ESL follower crowd.
Because doesnt matter which side the meta favours. Too much burst is just as boring to watch, as too much bunker, too much condis… too much cc… etc.
To be perfectly honest, the capacity and skill Anet has shown regarding pvp balancing I highly doubt we will ever see real balance with the current team and state of the game.
The only way I see Anet could manage pvp balancing, is by locking builds into hero-based builds. Byebye build diversity. But then… the current open-build policy is so last century anyway.
Well did anny team run without druid and/or revenant ?
nope
Only the 1st map of the final was good the rest were mundane. As for viewership it hasn’t improved at all its probably worse.
Could you back this with some numbers?
Well for starters the final only had just over 4000 viewers.
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
(edited by morrolan.9608)
also i wrote boring ESL not the worst ESL
lol actually you wrote “worst boring” so i think its a good way to talk about both.
which mean that bunker meta by me is less boring (but still boring) the burst meta as you can see some flips , good skills and not just BAM BAM kill.
anet can make it better by creating build diversity which counter other build
lets say you can build mesmer to condi, power or powerlock
no the enemy team see a mesmer but dont know how to react to him
so each play must now to be better to know hot to handle a power mesmer or condi mesmer or powerlock mesmer
but now if you see a mesmer you know for sure its condi and know which build exactly – boring
you miss the element of surprise we saw like tcg took GS carrion warrior
also if druid has no counter it will become boring cause you cannot do good rotation against him
lets assume warrior is counter to condi mesmer. if you send them to 1v1 the mesmer will ned help and now you starting to have rotation game. you will nedd a thief or rev or ranger to support and so on
now we have only 4v4 2v2 3v3 and the team which kill necro first and stomp it wins …. boring
i feel with messiah. Build diversity has become abyssal. This creats a booring game experience (expecially below top level play) and usualy leads to a slowly degenerating player base ….
All that off point fighting, they seriously need to l2p. </sarcasm>
IKR,, now when im in a pug solo q match and someone shouts “Don’t fight off point!” i’ll be like “Noob! I saw the pros do it!”
“Buff my main class, nerf everything else. "
It’s kind of funny. Forum complains that esl is burst meta and that is boring and it also complains that soloq is bunker meta and fighting dh, druids and engis is no fun
It’s kind of funny. Forum complains that esl is burst meta and that is boring and it also complains that soloq is bunker meta and fighting dh, druids and engis is no fun
now you see the problem?
elite players dont need bunker comp to win as they have communication, good skills and know how and when to burst
pugs dont have it so they play it safer
we complain about them both cause we dont have counter builds
assume i play with pugs and i see DH i will change to rev (how many does it – none in pugs)
assume i see druid … there is hardly good counter to it or engi the same
now if there were good counter builds which create diversity you would see more good fights
i dont know if you saw helseth youtube about mesmer tricks
he talked about the shield block phantasm spawns. when you jump it spawn bit later
so if the enemy dodge usually the phantasm wont dodge but if you jump it can spawn bit later
so now players have to think how to counter it. should i w8 for the mesmer to jump and than dodge or not. mind fights
more diversity more mind game more options more fun fights and entertaining ones
It’s kind of funny. Forum complains that esl is burst meta and that is boring and it also complains that soloq is bunker meta and fighting dh, druids and engis is no fun
This is why there is a actual problem.
In 1 vs 1 to many classes take to long to kill or stalemate. I had a match on my warrior where i ran far where a druid was, it was a 1 vs 1 and he actually stopped for a sec to type “lol we cant kill each other”. This is a huge issue, before HOT skill/build/classes actually mattered.
Before HOT necro was the top dog for 1 vs 1 but based on skill any class could win the 1 vs 1 but they probably had to run a 1 vs 1 build. Like on warrior i use to run mace/shield- Greatsword power and the other was rifle/hammer (carrion amulet) and i could win 1 vs 1 vs the d/d ele before it became god mode. Im digressing but the point of it was that greatsword/hammer was considered the meta but that build was not the best at everything.
Now 1 build is the best and small amulet changes simply change your ability to live or do damage.
We are now at a point where in 1 vs 1 people wont die and in that same match where you are having a 1 vs 1 in a stalemate, any class can come over to help you and you will instantly kill who ever you were fighting.
You will see threads about condi being OP, see threads about X class being OP simply because build diversity has been taken to the shed and shot.