(edited by Leo G.4501)
Can I turn Exp off?
No and quite frankly even if you could it would be a mistake you need all those extra skill points for Mystic Forge recipes and who knows what else down the road .
Just keep your lowbie gear and your character will scale down in low levels effectively keeping you at the same level you prefer.
You don’t really need to gear up that often. I usually buy new armor and weapons about every 10 levels but even that doesn’t really feel necessary. Unless your gear is way below the level of the area you are in, you probably don’t need to worry about it.
Just keep your lowbie gear and your character will scale down in low levels effectively keeping you at the same level you prefer.
not sure if troll or serious
if you don’t “update” gear, when you level. then you will be downscaled to lower stats then you were at that level. therefor you end up being weaker then you were in same low level zone when you were lower level.
e.g. if you go to 15lvl zone @ 80lvl with 15lvl gear, you will feel naked
kill all ze thingz
No, I was serious. I actually didn’t know that. I don’t have an end level character but I keep a starter set of RP gear for the skin for when I get there and I’m able to use it just fine in starting zones. But the solution is still there. Update your gear as you get it from veterans and as you scale down with the level your gear will too, won’t it?
You don’t really need to gear up that often. I usually buy new armor and weapons about every 10 levels but even that doesn’t really feel necessary. Unless your gear is way below the level of the area you are in, you probably don’t need to worry about it.
my alts run starter gear till better is found. i once had a 70 with (one or two pieces) lvl 15 blues and i was fine (admittedly, i was aguardian and not a squishy )
but back on topic, I don’t see the point from OP. I believe it would be a mistake that you would later regret. As someone said, you get scaled down, so I do not see the problem.
You don’t really need to gear up that often. I usually buy new armor and weapons about every 10 levels but even that doesn’t really feel necessary. Unless your gear is way below the level of the area you are in, you probably don’t need to worry about it.
my alts run starter gear till better is found. i once had a 70 with (one or two pieces) lvl 15 blues and i was fine (admittedly, i was aguardian and not a squishy )
but back on topic, I don’t see the point from OP. I believe it would be a mistake that you would later regret. As someone said, you get scaled down, so I do not see the problem.
This is 100% correct, My elementalist ran exp dungeons at 80 and fractals level 15 with all 35 and 45 gear ( didn’t realize it at the time ) and I did fine. Gear helps but skill provides a way better benefit than gear ever will. I usually upgrade my gear on my toons I am leveling at 30, 60 then 80. I hardly die ever and do just fine while leveling. True if I am 59 and in 30 armor I kill slower but at that point I am not worried about killing things in 30 seconds. To many people put speed over enjoyment.
Just for a side note my elementalist never died in the 5 runs I did in fractals before I upgraded my gear. and only a hand full of times in exploratory dungeons out of probably 50 to 60 times.
For starters, those that do not understand dynamic level scaling should look it up. You don’t upgrade your gear, you begin to get less effective as scaling will take into consideration your current max level and potential gear effectiveness…but I’m not even concerned with that.
Second, I already have a system to upgrade my gear. Either via karma or gold, it’s every 10-15 levels and it works fine, but with the way levels scale, I’m more concerned about challenge rather than effectiveness.
Facing content 5-10 levels above you is very different from facing it 1-2 levels below you, and no, unequipping gear and/or traits does not make it the same either. Playing alts up, I enjoy enjoying the content how it was meant to be. This goes for open world PvE and Dungeons, that is to say, I want to play Twilight Arbor at level 50-55 and I want to play Fireheart Rise, Sparkfly Fen, etc at the same level but currently I have to choose.
No and quite frankly even if you could it would be a mistake you need all those extra skill points for Mystic Forge recipes and who knows what else down the road .
I believe it would be a mistake that you would later regret.
Why would I care about the Mystic Forge?
Also, how does that make a difference? When you get to 80, you’ll still have accumulated the same amount of skill points.
Or maybe just levels?
Coming from City of Heroes, another game that was casual and easy to level up, it also had the option to turn off experience gain in exchange for higher gains in influence(gold/currency).
I don’t want more gold or whatever though. I just want to have the chance to sit at a level, enjoy the gear I have and the areas available without worrying about levels, trait points and gear upgrades until I’m good and ready to move on.
Well, no one is making you worry about levels, trait points or gear upgrades besides yourself. ^^ If you want to stay in a particular level zone then stay. You don’t need to assign trait points, skill points or buy new gear until you feel like doing so.
Or maybe just levels?
Coming from City of Heroes, another game that was casual and easy to level up, it also had the option to turn off experience gain in exchange for higher gains in influence(gold/currency).
I don’t want more gold or whatever though. I just want to have the chance to sit at a level, enjoy the gear I have and the areas available without worrying about levels, trait points and gear upgrades until I’m good and ready to move on.
Well, no one is making you worry about levels, trait points or gear upgrades besides yourself. ^^ If you want to stay in a particular level zone then stay. You don’t need to assign trait points, skill points or buy new gear until you feel like doing so.
But the content does not stay at the same challenge level.
Also, you can gain levels constantly just by exploring or doing dailies. Are you going to tell me I should not explore or do dailies? Or seek out harder content?
Or maybe just levels?
Coming from City of Heroes, another game that was casual and easy to level up, it also had the option to turn off experience gain in exchange for higher gains in influence(gold/currency).
I don’t want more gold or whatever though. I just want to have the chance to sit at a level, enjoy the gear I have and the areas available without worrying about levels, trait points and gear upgrades until I’m good and ready to move on.
Well, no one is making you worry about levels, trait points or gear upgrades besides yourself. ^^ If you want to stay in a particular level zone then stay. You don’t need to assign trait points, skill points or buy new gear until you feel like doing so.
But the content does not stay at the same challenge level.
Also, you can gain levels constantly just by exploring or doing dailies. Are you going to tell me I should not explore or do dailies? Or seek out harder content?
You are scaled down to match the levels, and if you don’t spend trait point, skill points or get better gear then you will not be stronger than a person who is level appropriate. You will be weaker than someone who is actually level appropriate who has spent points and geared up. At that point you are only potentially stronger, not actually stronger.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sidekick
This article assumes you have assigned trait points and it talks about how those are reduced to match the area. If you don’t assign them, of course, you will be weaker than that.
(edited by Astral Projections.7320)
You are scaled down to match the levels…
You’re not understanding what I’m saying.
You are not downscaled lower than the content. If I want to face content 5-10 levels above me, everything in the game (exploring, crafting, dungeons, dailies, killing, etc) will eventually prevent me from doing so.
And once you reach a certain point, no content gets harder outside of soloing dungeons.
Ah – how about this – a level penalty lock – where you go into hero window set your level to be 1-10 levels below content – this will make down scaling work for you in that you will be as low level as you desire but not need to worry about turning off EXP gain.
You will get level specific loot and area specific loot.
Or did you envision something different?
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Well in the title I asked to turn exp off but in the OP I also suggest maybe just levels.
That is to say, an option where you can still earn exp and even skill points but your actual level doesn’t change. An option to manually alter my effective level is the same thing.
Probably one reason I haven’t gotten map completion on any of my characters is because how bloody boring it is when mobs pose absolutely no threat except in overwhelming numbers and yet I have a BLAST actually leveling up a character through the content.
Ah, I see what you mean now. Well, the only way at this time is to continually go to higher zones, which something you don’t want to do? Ummm, use only starter armor and weapons? At this point, that may be as good as its going to get. Don’t assign trait or skill points, go with low level or no armor and use only low level weapons. I’m afraid it’s not realistic to think the Devs will do a rewrite of the code for what you want when only a few people are asking for it. :-)
Ah, I see what you mean now. Well, the only way at this time is to continually go to higher zones, which something you don’t want to do? Ummm, use only starter armor and weapons? At this point, that may be as good as its going to get. Don’t assign trait or skill points, go with low level or no armor and use only low level weapons. I’m afraid it’s not realistic to think the Devs will do a rewrite of the code for what you want when only a few people are asking for it. :-)
The thing is, even the game suggest if you want more challenge, face higher level opponents. This, however, won’t always be the case since you’ll outlevel everything without even trying. Also, it’s punishing in that going for map completion will throw a gear into that challenge due to everything pushing you past the level of the content.
Also, not assigning traits seems like faulty advice considering those traits are things you’re meant to learn. How can I learn a profession properly if I’m not assigning, experiencing and testing the different traits I’m to obtain? This leads to people not knowing how their profession works when, in essence, PvE is meant to help be a learning aid for the various aspects of the game.
But work arounds are work arounds. I don’t expect other players to play like me but then you shouldn’t angle your disagreement by talking down to a perfectly viable idea. The amount of work involved is an unknown so you have no idea if code has to be rewritten or if it’s as simple as adding a radial button in the options menu.
Let’s put things in perspective though: The game is advertised as playing how you want. Of course, that’s within the boundaries of the game:
-The game doesn’t want you to shoot to level 80 then obliterate all lower content…that’s why downscaling is present without option.
-The game wants you to be able to do specific content regardless of level…that’s why upscaling is present.
-The game has content that does not scale your level and suggests you chose your challenge with respect to your level…but the option is fleeting.
Now are you just disagreeing because you yourself fit more in the downscaling portion? Or do you honestly feel the last option does not need support? IMO, I just feel it’s an oversight that content can be surpassed so easily. An option to halt level progression in PvE so that you can face harder content should be something supported…
Or would you rather the devs aim to make hard content harder (Dungeons)? I like my idea because it puts the level of challenge back in your hands without discouraging you to do proper things like wearing proper gear and using your traits.
Maybe you should look into fractals, start or join a thread about how challenging they are. That may be what you are looking for. It’s designed to become more difficult the higher level you go.
But it’s boring.
It’s the same 9 instances over and over 40+ times. I got to around lvl32 before I just stopped and rolled other stuff.
Not only that, but people become more arrogant, needy and all around more unpleasant the higher you go. Some groups are cool, but other groups are elitist more often.
But this isn’t about me being inflexible. I’m not saying I don’t do higher level fractals, or that I don’t push into higher zones as I level or that I exclude myself from any PvE content. I will do it all, so telling me I should do this or that is preaching to the choir because I already do.
I’m suggesting something new because it’d make more content more appealing for longer.
Easy just level to 80 and you will be stuck there forever.
Easy just level to 80 and you will be stuck there forever.
Problem solved, close thread?
Why add a function that has essentially already been accounted for? ie scaling
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Easy just level to 80 and you will be stuck there forever.
LeoG: I’d like to play the content 5 or more levels above me.
FateOmega: Easy, just don’t.
LeoG: …
Why add a function that has essentially already been accounted for? ie scaling
I guess I’d better update the OP since no one is actually reading.
What you actually seem to be asking for is Hard Mode, something that Guild Wars 1 had.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Hard_mode
This was an important part of the game and could reasonably be argued for. Not all of the features could be implemented of course, but enough of them so that the people who like a challenge would be happy. Maybe a more severe drop in scaling?
It’s very unlikely your suggestion would ever be put in place, but Hard Mode could.
Opinions are opinions.
Feels like I’d be asking a lot more to introduce a whole extra mode to the game that requires coding all enemies, encounters and tackling a new means of level progression versus asking to be able to stay at level 55 while I explore Fireheart Rise and do Twilight Arbor.
But I guess the logic is “If it’s in GW1 then it can be in GW2”. There are big differences though. GW2 has 60 more levels than GW1, nor was it as easy to gain levels in GW1 (afaik).
So would hard mode have to shut down level progression for exploration/vista exp? Crafting? You can complete heart quests without even engaging enemies. There’d be quite a few issues to tackle with implementing a hard mode and its rewards other than the pure concept of it.
But I’m all ears on how it’d work. I never played GW1 so can’t really comment how to translate that to this game.
It’s exceptionally unlikely they would ever turn off leveling. It’s too integral to the endgame, such as it is. Hard Mode in gw1 was something you got after you finished one campaign. After that you could opt for it when you wanted it. Enemies were significantly higher in level and had more abilities. They attacked faster and had elite skills they didn’t have before. It definitely made the game a challenge. I could see them putting in a Hard Mode, where you are down scaled far more harshly than now. I can’t see them removing leveling.
Just keep your lowbie gear and your character will scale down in low levels effectively keeping you at the same level you prefer.
not sure if troll or serious
if you don’t “update” gear, when you level. then you will be downscaled to lower stats then you were at that level. therefor you end up being weaker then you were in same low level zone when you were lower level.
e.g. if you go to 15lvl zone @ 80lvl with 15lvl gear, you will feel naked
and u would look kinda stupid
i am a hunter you don’t see me, you just die
It’s exceptionally unlikely they would ever turn off leveling. It’s too integral to the endgame, such as it is. Hard Mode in gw1 was something you got after you finished one campaign. After that you could opt for it when you wanted it. Enemies were significantly higher in level and had more abilities. They attacked faster and had elite skills they didn’t have before. It definitely made the game a challenge. I could see them putting in a Hard Mode, where you are down scaled far more harshly than now. I can’t see them removing leveling.
This sounds like a better approach. Hard mode in GW1 was really actually pretty fun, but seeing as this is an open map game the down leveling is what would have to be changed. Actually, that’s a great suggestion and I would certainly support a hard mode!
I can’t see them rewriting the AI or giving new skills since there would be a mix of normal mode and hard mode players. The only thing I can see them doing is an option for making the down leveling harsher. Now you are down leveled to max area level plus one. So….. maybe max area level minus 5?
Dynamic level adjustment reduces a character’s attributes and level when the character’s level exceeds the area they are in.1 For example, a character with an actual level of 50 in a level 10 area will have their attributes reduced to an “effective level” equal to a level 11 character (maximum level for the area +1). The effective level is shown as a green number next to a downwards arrow and the actual level on the experience bar and is stated under the actual level on the hero panel. Changes to attributes are also seen on the hero panel in green. Unaltered values for an attribute can be seen when hovering the mouse over that attribute.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dynamic_level_adjustment
This is how the scaling works if anyone has questions.
Also if someone wanted to they could level in Queensdale and stay by simply staying at max level ( IE 11 ) and never spending more trait points than level 11 allowed or skill points than the following area allowed + level. So yes it is possible, would it be fun in my opinion ..no but if someone wanted to do it have at it.
Dynamic level adjustment reduces a character’s attributes and level when the character’s level exceeds the area they are in.1 For example, a character with an actual level of 50 in a level 10 area will have their attributes reduced to an “effective level” equal to a level 11 character (maximum level for the area +1). The effective level is shown as a green number next to a downwards arrow and the actual level on the experience bar and is stated under the actual level on the hero panel. Changes to attributes are also seen on the hero panel in green. Unaltered values for an attribute can be seen when hovering the mouse over that attribute.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dynamic_level_adjustment
This is how the scaling works if anyone has questions.
Also if someone wanted to they could level in Queensdale and stay by simply staying at max level ( IE 11 ) and never spending more trait points than level 11 allowed or skill points than the following area allowed + level. So yes it is possible, would it be fun in my opinion ..no but if someone wanted to do it have at it.
Yes, but that is not what he is asking for. :-) What he is saying, if I understand him correctly, is that eventually you reach level 80 and at that point there are no more enemies that are several levels above you. I was saying that if the game had a hard mode, this could be turned on and a player would again be facing mobs of higher levels.
I could see them putting in a Hard Mode, where you are down scaled far more harshly than now. I can’t see them removing leveling.
No one said anything about removing leveling. This is about playing content at a specific difficulty which doesn’t imply removing anything but giving the option to do something else.
As for Hard Mode, I’d like to hear how one would translate it to this game’s content and how one would handle certain things:
-Rewards
-Zone instances and technical limitations
-Zone events
-The mobs themselves and the mechanics of levels
As it stands, a ‘hard mode’ is just a concept. No one has described how it’d even work. But I hope it can be done versus just scaling content to have more champions and to add cheap skills that mobs can spam like the new Krait and Undead have (not to mention, such changes seem game-wide as changing these things changed Krait and Undead across all modes including Story mode).
My suggestion is to simply create an option to halt level progression while you do tasks. This comes with several positives:
-No new content has to be rewritten
-No new abilities have to be added
-Uses current difficulty algorithms such as damage/armor scales, glancing blows and condition durations
-You can choose how difficult you want the content by moving and staying in specific level ranges (if 8lvls above is too tough for you, go to another part of the map and face foes 5lvls above instead)
That all said, I’d enjoy changes to certain enemy factions to make them scale harder in some fashion, but not as a game-wide change.
I can’t see them rewriting the AI or giving new skills since there would be a mix of normal mode and hard mode players. The only thing I can see them doing is an option for making the down leveling harsher. Now you are down leveled to max area level plus one. So….. maybe max area level minus 5?
Yeah, I’m not asking for anything specific. I just finally realized why I get bored with open world exploring and it’s usually because, while doing a zone, it gets so easy that caves and enemy camps aren’t dangerous anymore and the only way to make it ‘hard’ is to throw more mobs at me, which is nice, but limiting when you’re playing a profession that doesn’t excel in AoE effects.
So being able to stop level gains, a mode to scale the difficulty of encounters in some way, or being able to control your own effective level…it’s all the same to me. Whichever works best.
Or maybe just levels?
Coming from City of Heroes, another game that was casual and easy to level up, it also had the option to turn off experience gain in exchange for higher gains in influence(gold/currency).
I don’t want more gold or whatever though. I just want to have the chance to sit at a level, enjoy the gear I have and the areas available without worrying about levels, trait points and gear upgrades until I’m good and ready to move on.
To further explain the point of this, it’s so outleveling the content isn’t as big an issue when you want to tackle it for a challenge, i.e. 5 or more levels above you. Downscaling only brings you down to 1 level above the content which is still pretty easy and doesn’t compare with fighting it 5 levels or more below the content.
Emphasis added.
I read this and read it as turning off leveling. I don’t see how you can turn off experience without turning off leveling. Leveling is thru gaining experience.
As for hard mode “just being a concept” that no one has described how it worked, I sent you a link. Here it is again since you seem to have missed it. http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Hard_mode
(edited by Astral Projections.7320)
Emphasis added.
I read this and read it as turning off leveling. I don’t see how you can turn off experience without turning off leveling. Leveling is thru gaining experience.
Well the first part is describing the system in City of Heroes. There was an option in the menu that stopped you from gaining experience points. It also had the option to shut off experience gain just while you were exemplaring so when you did content below you, you didn’t get experience points but content your level or above still gave experience points.
It was an important feature because in CoH, you could literally outlevel content and your contacts wouldn’t give you missions anymore but guide you to a higher level contact instead.
You don’t have to worry about that in GW2 though as your level is scaled down to the content automatically…but the huge difference is that CoH let you literally control the difficulty of your content. You could scale your missions up to 8 levels above you AND you could scale it by the number of team mates even if you had no team.
[EDIT] Also, turning off leveling without turning off experience is already in the game. Once you get to level 80, leveling is turned off but you still gain experience. So the mechanics are there (to manually cap your level at a point).
As for hard mode “just being a concept” that no one has described how it worked, I sent you a link. Here it is again since you seem to have missed it. http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Hard_mode
That’s for GW1. GW2 isn’t GW1. None of what is described translates to GW2 mechanics. It just says ‘mobs hit harder, have more HP and use different AI’ but it says nothing about how dynamic events, rewards, progression or grouping would work in this game.
You’re describing some arbitrary mode advertised as ‘hard mode’ and I’m describing a tangible difficulty you can feel now by picking up a mid-level alt and going against foes 5-10 levels above you. When mobs go past 6 levels above you, all your attacks are glancing blows, and at some point, conditions don’t work. Down is nearly death and you have to be careful of your surroundings. That already is hard mode, so why introduce a mode that exists but only for a limited time?
“That’s for GW1. GW2 isn’t GW1. None of what is described translates to GW2 mechanics. It just says ‘mobs hit harder, have more HP and use different AI’ but it says nothing about how dynamic events, rewards, progression or grouping would work in this game.”
For goodness sakes, how could it tell how it works in this game when this game doesn’t have it, just as your suggestion is not in this game either. It’s a link to show you how it worked in the other game to build on as a frame work.
“You’re describing some arbitrary mode advertised as ‘hard mode’ and I’m describing a tangible difficulty you can feel now by picking up a mid-level alt and going against foes 5-10 levels above you”
I guarantee that going against level 40 bosses with new elite skills and faster attack speeds when you were only level 20 (which was max level in Guild Wars 1) made a VERY tangible difference. Far more than what you are currently suggesting.
This wasn’t something you just turned on or off at whim. You could only turn it on or off in a major city, like LA, not while you were out exploring.
(edited by Astral Projections.7320)
For goodness sakes, how could it tell how it works in this game when this game doesn’t have it, just as your suggestion is not in this game either. It’s a link to show you how it worked in the other game to build on as a frame work.
And I’m asking you to build on it since I cannot.
Why do you think I opened with a suggestion I knew of and translated it to GW2? That’s how suggestions work. You propose something by describing its function/implementation.
I guarantee that going against level 40 bosses with new elite skills and faster attack speeds when you were only level 20 (which was max level in Guild Wars 1) made a VERY tangible difference. Far more than what you are currently suggesting.
Again, none of this applies to GW2. You can’t face foes 20 levels above you in this game and win unless there are many to help. Having all attacks fire off twice as fast and move at swiftness speed doesn’t translate well either since, in this game, movement and dodge are your defense. Could you dodge in GW1? Is that how you survived in that game?
So I ask to describe how hard mode would work in GW2 PvE, because pointing to a mode in another game isn’t very useful.
Why do you think I didn’t ask for content scaling like in City of Heroes? Because it wouldn’t make sense to go to an NPC that would then just make all the enemy’s levels scale how you want and how many you face when you enter an instance since all of that is locked by the instance zone and area. Also, you can’t fine scale zone events harder without scaling the whole zone or affecting those in the immediate area.
Was GW1 hard mode relevant to the open world content? Actually, I heard GW1 is mostly instances, so ‘hard mode’ would need to be described in terms of GW2 otherwise it’s irrelevant.
Can OP accomplish all of this by wearing lower level gear?
Can OP accomplish all of this by wearing lower level gear?
Not really.
For a simple example: fighting a foe more than 2 levels above you, there is a chance a non-critical blow will be glancing and do half damage (I think it was like a 20% chance but I only heard about that in passing) and foes lower level than you have a chance to score glancing blows against you.
Well, that’s my proposal. Harsher downscaling that you can only turn on or off in a major city. It puts you at max level for an area minus 10. Available to you once you beat the game by doing the final story line on one character and then available to all of your max level characters regardless of whether they have finished their storyline.
Foes 2 levels above you can do glancing blows but foes lower level have a chance for glancing blows? or you mean foes below your level don’t have a chance for glancing blows?
And I agreed with that proposal. It definitely would be an appealing option for PvE content.
The only reward I’d try to tie to it is perhaps accomplishments…maybe even an extra category in the monthlies that granted an additional 5 laurels a month or maybe just extra karma…or just a title you can gain for doing certain things while in such settings.
Foes 2 levels above you can do glancing blows but foes lower level have a chance for glancing blows? or you mean foes below your level don’t have a chance for glancing blows?
Foes more than 2 levels above you = a chance your attacks will be glancing and that chance goes up if you are Weakened. Foes will only score glancing blows on you if they are Weakened.
Foes below your level = a chance their attacks will be glancing. Your attacks will never be glancing unless you are weakened.
[EDIT] Also, at a certain point (I think it’s more than 8 levels above you) foes will be immune to your conditions.
(edited by Leo G.4501)
Ah, kk. I gotcha.
I like this idea but I think it should be a bit different. Don’t let us turn off EXP gain, but let us decide if we want our level lowered even further. Ive seen other MMO’s with systems that let you suppress your level, this would let you play with your friends and match their level. Combine that with the system already in place and I think it would be a great addition.
I’d agree that that suggestion works nicely. As for a specific ‘hard mode’, I feel that would only qualify on dungeons. It feels inevitable the devs will eventually concoct a hard mode for instance content, specifically with mobs using updated movesets.
Which is why I think the other idea would be better for other content. You can’t put the open world into hard mode without making it an instance and dividing the players into them. Simply adjusting your effective level works too.
You’d still want to fiddle with your traits, gear and what not, but at least there wouldn’t be a rush to do so. The content will always pose a challenge so you can put your adventures on hold to get some tokens on the way to 80.