Guild Wars 2

Please find a scheme that we can rotate colors more often and fight different servers. The current scheme we are fighting the same servers over and over and sitting at the same color for a long time. I just start to feel sick seeing certain guilds.

It doesn’t have to be totally random. We can have it like a tournment style to match different servers weekly and rank the servers for a season.

I agree completely for two reasons. 1st is a change of scenery (and yes world exploration, I’ve been sitting on 99% for some time now!). The second is simply for new challenge and strategy. I’m tired of always facing the same two servers over and over. Granted we are evenly matched, but so much so that very little changes. We always end up very close in final score and the maps tend to look the same most of the time. It is a complete stale mate. Not only that, but the stale mate is always the same because the strategies of each of the three servers are well known to the other two.

So you would rather pit the top three servers in the world

• Jade Quarry
• Black Gate
• Sanctum of Rall

up against Lower tired servers that we will just stomp into the ground if not push off the map in the first few hours?

I vote just color rotation.

Kaimick.5109:

So you would rather pit the top three servers in the world

• Jade Quarry
• Black Gate
• Sanctum of Rall

up against Lower tired servers that we will just stomp into the ground if not push off the map in the first few hours?

I don’t think that is what he is suggesting, as he mentioned tournament style. To elaborate, a tournament will still seed it’s participants and match them up accordingly (depending on what type of tournament you’re talking). You can still have like servers facing one another, however I think the current system goes too purely by the numbers and you end up with the same servers facing each other over and over again.

I think a bucketted round-robin style tournament works great here. Open the tiers to include 6 teams and then pit those teams against each other. each week you choose from those same buckets, but make sure that you always switch up at least one of the servers. The difference will not be insurmountable since the servers are still somewhat alike, but it does change up the dynamics.

You could even break this out a bit further for even better matchups. Put each server with 4-5 per bucket with overlapping buckets so that 1-2 servers are ultimately in two and then they float from week-to-week between them.

In any case, more diversity doesn’t necessarily mean that top and bottom tiers must face off. This wouldn’t be good if it did. However a slightly more elaborate system could make for some great matchups.

I don’t think you realize how the WvWvW rankings work, they are based off of set about of points you gain, much like in any tourny style set up. The better the server is the more points they will acquire the more points the further up the tier bracket you move.

If you have a rank 22 server that decimate every server they come across they will increase in rank till they reach a server that is on equal grounds as them.

The tournament round robin style you suggest, has to have an end to the tournament, in wvwvw there is no end. It is a constant tournament ergo why it works off of points.

http://mos.millenium.org/matchups#NA

That is a site that shows the current point standings for the servers. according to the current setup and any other set up you lay to it

• Jade Quarry
• Backgate ( my home )
• Sanctum of Rall

if you put any of of those servers against 3 – 24 the out come will always be one of those 3 servers. That is not a fair based system, that is like saying well we have a pro football team here and we are going to pit them against an arena Football team and then a High school football team. Then we are going to take another pro team and pit them against a collage team ( there is a chance of wining for them IE 3, 4, and 5 ) and a high school team.

In the end the system they have now is the best system they can have. it puts the best of the best against one another, and one day one of those servers will fall down a tier and another will step up. but making a round robin match up will still put

• Jade Quarry
• Blackgate
• Sanctum of Rall

against each other in the end.

Kaimick.5109:

I don’t think you realize how the WvWvW rankings work, they are based off of set about of points you gain, much like in any tourny style set up. The better the server is the more points they will acquire the more points the further up the tier bracket you move.

The tournament round robin style you suggest, has to have an end to the tournament, in wvwvw there is no end. It is a constant tournament ergo why it works off of points.

I do know how it works, the problem is that it is too rigid. Basically it takes the top three and matches them, then the next three, then the next, etc. etc.. What I’m suggesting is an added layer to that in creating point buckets and then matching up accordingly. As to the second statement, why does the round-robin style have to have an end? It should have a regular reshuffling of buckets, yes, but an end, not at all.

Invictus.1503:

Kaimick.5109:

I don’t think you realize how the WvWvW rankings work, they are based off of set about of points you gain, much like in any tourny style set up. The better the server is the more points they will acquire the more points the further up the tier bracket you move.

The tournament round robin style you suggest, has to have an end to the tournament, in wvwvw there is no end. It is a constant tournament ergo why it works off of points.

I do know how it works, the problem is that it is too rigid. Basically it takes the top three and matches them, then the next three, then the next, etc. etc.. What I’m suggesting is an added layer to that in creating point buckets and then matching up accordingly. As to the second statement, why does the round-robin style have to have an end? It should have a regular reshuffling of buckets, yes, but an end, not at all.

So again if you randomly shuffle them you will end up with

Jade quarry facing off against tarnished cost and then crystal desert, how do you think that is going to end?

Even in the NFL the match ups are picked according to how they did the previous year. yes every team plays against every team but even with this unless new players are added or traded, if a Super Bowl winning team doesn’t change the line up and faces a 0 and 15 team that team is going to lose.

I am just not sure how you feel the current system is ridged and how shuffling the deck every week is going to make things interesting, minus for JQ, BG, SoR. Please give me examples of what your talking about cause as of right now every week JQ, BG, SoR will be the top three servers, and the people put against them are just going to be pushed into the ground.

Prefect example BG started on a tier 4 bracket, since I have been WvWvW at the end of the week we have had 85% to 95% of the map ( that is all 4 areas ), and most of the time we have had 100% of the map. Even when we reached tier 2 most weeks would end up with us pushing both servers off the map. How do you think Hedge of Devranie and Sarrows furnace is going to feel facing US? How do you think they are going to feel when in the first few days they are completely forced off the map and the next 5 days is 100% BG? You think that will be fun for them?

The only servers that will be able to even give us a challenge including JQ and SoR a challenge is

• kainegn
• Fort Aspen wood
• Tarnished cost

And even though they may give the top 3 servers a challenge I am confident enough ( because of past experiences ) to say that JQ, SoR, and BG will just trounce them in the end.

There is a reason we are the top three servers, and there is a reason that kai, Fort, and Tarnished fight to get to where we are. You shuffle it up and there will just be unfair battles happening at least 6 a week.

Agreed. Wining T1 and becoming green is still boring.

rhodoc.2381:

Agreed. Wining T1 and becoming green is still boring.

Honestly I think they changed it up now,

BG was green in the first week of T1, I don’t remember week 2 but this week we are Blue, I think last week we were red.

Kaimick.5109:

Invictus.1503:

Kaimick.5109:

I don’t think you realize how the WvWvW rankings work, they are based off of set about of points you gain, much like in any tourny style set up. The better the server is the more points they will acquire the more points the further up the tier bracket you move.

The tournament round robin style you suggest, has to have an end to the tournament, in wvwvw there is no end. It is a constant tournament ergo why it works off of points.

I do know how it works, the problem is that it is too rigid. Basically it takes the top three and matches them, then the next three, then the next, etc. etc.. What I’m suggesting is an added layer to that in creating point buckets and then matching up accordingly. As to the second statement, why does the round-robin style have to have an end? It should have a regular reshuffling of buckets, yes, but an end, not at all.

So again if you randomly shuffle them you will end up with

Jade quarry facing off against tarnished cost and then crystal desert, how do you think that is going to end?

Not sure why you keep thinking round-robin buckets are random. Nowhere in my statements is that even mentioned as, you are right to say, that would simply be a mess.

I’m sorry if I’m not explaining it in a way you can better understand, but frankly I’m going to stop trying. For those people with any experience developing tournament play (outside of the standard bracketing tournaments) it should make sense. Then that style simply continues rather than concludes as these round-robin tournaments only really end when a pre-set number of matches/games are concluded. In this case that number is never set.

That said, I’ve added my suggestion, fielded questions, and am concluding it as I don’t care for arguments or talking in circles.

Invictus.1503:

Kaimick.5109:

Invictus.1503:

Kaimick.5109:

I don’t think you realize how the WvWvW rankings work, they are based off of set about of points you gain, much like in any tourny style set up. The better the server is the more points they will acquire the more points the further up the tier bracket you move.

The tournament round robin style you suggest, has to have an end to the tournament, in wvwvw there is no end. It is a constant tournament ergo why it works off of points.

I do know how it works, the problem is that it is too rigid. Basically it takes the top three and matches them, then the next three, then the next, etc. etc.. What I’m suggesting is an added layer to that in creating point buckets and then matching up accordingly. As to the second statement, why does the round-robin style have to have an end? It should have a regular reshuffling of buckets, yes, but an end, not at all.

So again if you randomly shuffle them you will end up with

Jade quarry facing off against tarnished cost and then crystal desert, how do you think that is going to end?

Not sure why you keep thinking round-robin buckets are random. Nowhere in my statements is that even mentioned as, you are right to say, that would simply be a mess.

I’m sorry if I’m not explaining it in a way you can better understand, but frankly I’m going to stop trying. For those people with any experience developing tournament play (outside of the standard bracketing tournaments) it should make sense. Then that style simply continues rather than concludes as these round-robin tournaments only really end when a pre-set number of matches/games are concluded. In this case that number is never set.

That said, I’ve added my suggestion, fielded questions, and am concluding it as I don’t care for arguments or talking in circles.

It should be simple enough for you to give an example of what your talking about, and yet you can’t even clearly do that. No matter how you put it, as of right now, if you pit 4,5,6 against 1,2,3 and then add 7,8,9 to the mix so it reads
1,4,7 and 2,5,8 and 3,6,9 I promise you that even though the 4,5,6 will probably give a challenge that 1,2,3 will come out the victor and 7,8,9 will get smashed.

So help me understand what your talking about, I promise I am not hard headed if you can clearly give an example as to what your talking about and it makes sense then I can maybe get on board, but as of right now you have only vaguely given an alternative. cause your classic round robin is

8 players
1v2 3v4 5v6 7v8
winners of those match ups play each other losers play each other
1v4 6v3 <— winners bracket
2v5 4v8 <— Loser bracket
Winners play each other for over all winner losers are removed from play
1v6 <—- Winners bracket
5v8 <— Loser bracket
Winner
6 1st place, 1 2nd place, 8 third place, 5 4th place

please explain what your talking about cause that is how we did it in Mechwarrior clicks as the official round robin tournaments

::EDIT::
Take the list of 24 servers and match them up to how you see your system would match them up for next week

Severs have different play style. The current top 3 are the best for the moment, does not necessarily mean they will always beat the servers ranked 4-6. Even if 6 under-matched 1, 6 will learn something and might help them get to 5 because of this experience. The proposal is to allow the chance to have 4-6 mix with 1-3 for improved playing and learning experience.

So I suggest make each tier 6 servers (4 tiers for 24 NA servers) competing each other for a period (maybe 9 weeks so that each server in a tier fight at least once to each other). Rank each tier at the end of 1 period and then swap 6 and 7, 12 and 13, 18 and 19 after each period. And make color rotation in each tier random so that people aiming for world completion won’t get so flustrated against servers who defend their BL so well and always occupy that same color for weeks.

Currently I see color only matters in the stretagic sense is the EB map. But I am sure most WvW dedicated guilds are already familiar with the map, so that probably won’t make much of a difference. :P

Plus people might actually get hot blooded (fury – for great justice XD) against higher rank servers, so you never know what the outcome can be until you try. :P The point is to make different servers to have a chance to try each other and hopefully they can increase a tier for more challange. The playing experience would be better than as it is imo. ^^ This can also prevent serve gank since you won’t always with the same servers for weeks.

BBMouse.6510:

Severs have different play style. The current top 3 are the best for the moment, does not necessarily mean they will always beat the servers ranked 4-6. Even if 6 under-matched 1, 6 will learn something and might help them get to 5 because of this experience. The proposal is to allow the chance to have 4-6 mix with 1-3 for improved playing and learning experience.

So I suggest make each tier 6 servers (4 tiers for 24 NA servers) competing each other for a period (maybe 9 weeks so that each server in a tier fight at least once to each other). Rank each tier at the end of 1 period and then swap 6 and 7, 12 and 13, 18 and 19 after each period. And make color rotation in each tier random so that people aiming for world completion won’t get so flustrated against servers who defend their BL so well and always occupy that same color for weeks.

Currently I see color only matters in the stretagic sense is the EB map. But I am sure most WvW dedicated guilds are already familiar with the map, so that probably won’t make much of a difference. :P

Plus people might actually get hot blooded (fury – for great justice XD) against higher rank servers, so you never know what the outcome can be until you try. :P The point is to make different servers to have a chance to try each other and hopefully they can increase a tier for more challange. The playing experience would be better than as it is imo. ^^ This can also prevent serve gank since you won’t always with the same servers for weeks.

This is a more comprehensible explanation than what was previously put forth, although the issue here is this.

Where there is no guarantee that 1,2,3 will always win against 4,5,6 the odds are greatly in favor of 1,2,3 winning.

How it is set up now kainieg has a chance to boot Sanctum of Rall out of the 3rd place. Which will put them in the running with Bg and JQ. BG as my example put forth worked their way from Tier 4 to tier 1. Since they are garnished off the points acquired in that week Fregusons Crossing ( being rank 24 ) can with a lot of effort make it’s way to rank 3. The system now makes it so that if you want to be in Tier 1 bracket you have to work for it, that means destroying everyone in your bracket as best as possible.

BG, JQ, SoR all work the tails off getting to that tier one spot and fight against the best of the best. Yes that wont always be the case, but when that time comes when another server beats them out of the tier one spot it is because they had the command and the skill to do it, they earned the right to fight with the big dogs ( to presay) not because they just got grouped with them.

I mean some one in the minors ( for baseball) doesn’t get to go play with the Yankees just so he can better his skill, no he has to show hard work and skill beyond that f his piers at the level he is at before he can move up. The same goes here, if you want to play withe the Big Two you have to earn your place there.

::EDIT:: @ Invictus.1503: What server do you play on? not that is matters just curious.

I was writing my previous post at the same time Kaimick was writing his, so I didn’t see his post when I posted mine. I want to give some details about my proposed tier.

Tier 1 1-6
Tier 2 7-12
Tier 3 13-18
Tier 4 19-24
Each tier has its own scores for 9 weeks

Take tier 1 for example, 9 combo (123,124,125,126,134,135,136,145,146)
For 9 weeks the match sequence is random so it can be 123 for week 1, 146 for week 2, etc. At the end of 9 weeks (1 season is 9 weeks), there is a total score for ranking each tier. Swap 6 and 7, 12 and 13, 18 and 19.

So basically, now is time 0 and we have the current rank as it is. Take current 12 at time 0 as example.

9 weeks later (end of season 1), current 12 might do so well and rank #1 in tier 2 (which is 7), it will be swapped with 6 and play in tier 1. So yeah if lucky, it can play against 1 at week 10 (season 2). After final match at week 18 (end of season 2), if the current 12 (at time 0) didn’t stand a chance and did so bad in tier 1 (6 at week 18 season 2), it will go back down to tier 2 again for season 3 (swap with 7). But it learns something when playing against 1-5 and they can come back for revange at season 4 if they win #1 again in tier 2 at season 3.

That is just an idea. At least we don’t play with the same servers over and over again and learn nothing new. :)

BBMouse.6510:

I was writing my previous post at the same time Kaimick was writing his, so I didn’t see his post when I posted mine. I want to give some details about my proposed tier.

Tier 1 1-6
Tier 2 7-12
Tier 3 13-18
Tier 4 19-24
Each tier has its own scores for 9 weeks

Take tier 1 for example, 9 combo (123,124,125,126,134,135,136,145,146)
For 9 weeks the match sequence is random so it can be 123 for week 1, 146 for week 2, etc. At the end of 9 weeks (1 season is 9 weeks), there is a total score for ranking each tier. Swap 6 and 7, 12 and 13, 18 and 19.

So basically, now is time 0 and we have the current rank as it is. Take current 12 at time 0 as example.

9 weeks later (end of season 1), current 12 might do so well and rank #1 in tier 2 (which is 7), it will be swapped with 6 and play in tier 1. So yeah if lucky, it can play against 1 at week 10 (season 2). After final match at week 18 (end of season 2), if the current 12 (at time 0) didn’t stand a chance and did so bad in tier 1 (6 at week 18 season 2), it will go back down to tier 2 again for season 3 (swap with 7). But it learns something when playing against 1-5 and they can come back for revange at season 4 if they win #1 again in tier 2 at season 3.

That is just an idea. At least we don’t play with the same servers over and over again and learn nothing new.

The purposed idea is the same we have now minus you get to fight more servers, although with that said.

to say you learn nothing is a false statement, regardless of fighting the same servers for 3 weeks at a time ( less if you do well ) just means you have a chance to learn how to beat those said servers. Then when you move to a different bracket you use what you learned.

You realize how much of a head ache that would cause pitting 6 servers randomly against each other for 9 weeks would be. As of right now each week your server has the chance to progress to the next tier, Fighting them for one week isn’t going to make you learn anything you can’t learn fighting against the same 2 servers for 2 weeks.

On the issue of changing color that I agree should always change, every week. but as far as the tier system is now it is pretty solid and allows for the best of the best to shine and the rest to strive for something. Any server can learn new tactics they don’t need to be pitted against the best to do that. I can tell you right now that Tarnished Coast and Fort aspenwood have always been beat pretty bad by BG, can you imaging them against JQ. JQ makes BG look foolish a lot of the times. Being decimated into the ground is not a learning experience. Being on a equal ranking with servers of your level does give you a learning experience.

If I may can I ask what server your on?