Guild Wars 2

I think all conditions should be able to stack intensity an not just time. It would make condition builds a lot more useful. If bleed can do it they all should do it

For poison and burning, maybe. But intensity-stacking doesn’t make sense for most conditions:

• Intense fear. Target runs away faster?
• Intense immobilize. Target can’t even think about moving?
• Intense blind. Instead of missing, the target’s next attack hits its ally instead?
• Intense crippled. Target randomly suffers knockdown when it attempts to move, or perhaps it begins walking backwards?

In other cases, it would be potentially overpowered:

• Intense chilled. Target’s skill-recharge and movement penalty stacks up until it reaches 100%?
• Intense weakness. Target’s endurance-regen and outgoing damage penalty stacks up until it reaches 100%?

LOL advert, funny stuff there :P but dont forget poison, the target hurt himself when he tries to heal? :V

And that really is why poison is such weak when it comes to the pure dmg it deal, because it has a very potent debuff going with it too

and burn intensity would be OP, one stack of bleed compared to one stack of burning the burning does a LOT more dmg, but yeah bleeds then when stacked up go over burn, but if you could stack burn in intensity it would just become WAY too high dmg.

And confusion well does hurt a LOT sure… but only if you spam skills while under it, let it run out and you suffer no dmg, or thrown a condition removal and you only take minimal dmg, heck even a direct heal often heals for more than the confusion dmg you would take from that skill

Advert Paperer.7059:

For poison and burning, maybe. But intensity-stacking doesn’t make sense for most conditions:

• Intense fear. Target runs away faster?
• Intense immobilize. Target can’t even think about moving?
• Intense blind. Instead of missing, the target’s next attack hits its ally instead?
• Intense crippled. Target randomly suffers knockdown when it attempts to move, or perhaps it begins walking backwards?

In other cases, it would be potentially overpowered:

• Intense chilled. Target’s skill-recharge and movement penalty stacks up until it reaches 100%?
• Intense weakness. Target’s endurance-regen and outgoing damage penalty stacks up until it reaches 100%?

Lmao, this made my day.

GummiBear.2756:

LOL advert, funny stuff there :P but dont forget poison, the target hurt himself when he tries to heal? :V

And that really is why poison is such weak when it comes to the pure dmg it deal, because it has a very potent debuff going with it too

and burn intensity would be OP, one stack of bleed compared to one stack of burning the burning does a LOT more dmg, but yeah bleeds then when stacked up go over burn, but if you could stack burn in intensity it would just become WAY too high dmg.

And confusion well does hurt a LOT sure… but only if you spam skills while under it, let it run out and you suffer no dmg, or thrown a condition removal and you only take minimal dmg, heck even a direct heal often heals for more than the confusion dmg you would take from that skill

Solutions:

Poison – Intensity of the DoT, the debuff remains at base
Burning – Intensity over time… meaning burns damage ticks up every x seconds burning in maintained. Higher stacks means quicker ramp up. Now I realize if someone manages to keep burn stacks up perminantly the numbers could reach unfathomable hights so a damage cap could be applied to it.

Panda.1967:

GummiBear.2756:

LOL advert, funny stuff there :P but dont forget poison, the target hurt himself when he tries to heal? :V

And that really is why poison is such weak when it comes to the pure dmg it deal, because it has a very potent debuff going with it too

and burn intensity would be OP, one stack of bleed compared to one stack of burning the burning does a LOT more dmg, but yeah bleeds then when stacked up go over burn, but if you could stack burn in intensity it would just become WAY too high dmg.

And confusion well does hurt a LOT sure… but only if you spam skills while under it, let it run out and you suffer no dmg, or thrown a condition removal and you only take minimal dmg, heck even a direct heal often heals for more than the confusion dmg you would take from that skill

Solutions:

Poison – Intensity of the DoT, the debuff remains at base
Burning – Intensity over time… meaning burns damage ticks up every x seconds burning in maintained. Higher stacks means quicker ramp up. Now I realize if someone manages to keep burn stacks up perminantly the numbers could reach unfathomable hights so a damage cap could be applied to it.

for poison if you stack it intensity you would actually have it deal MORE damage than bleed on top of a very potent debuff, assuming 1000 condition dmg at lvl 80 (whihc is rather low for a full condition build) you would for poison get 4+80+0,1*1000 = 184 dmg per stack, where bleed would be 0,05*1000+0,5*80+2,5=92.5 dmg per stack (formulaes taken from wiki).

As for bleeding well it would be even worse even with a rampup over time like you suggested any full condition build would likely be able to ramp it very fast, with the same stats as before burning is 0,25*1000+4*80=570 dmg per tick already, so you would really really have to lower the start dmg by a LOT, which could very like break quite a few existing builds if not classes entirely

1000 is very conservative. Some classes may have around 2500 condition damage while still being able to stack up conditions quickly. So bleeding ticks for 2512.5dps at 15 stacks, burning close to 1000dps unless cleansed.

Iruwen.3164:

1000 is very conservative. Some classes may have around 2500 condition damage while still being able to stack up conditions quickly. So bleeding ticks for 2512.5dps at 15 stacks, burning close to 1000dps unless cleansed.

ehmm 100 condition damage was just an EXAMPLE to show the differences between the different dmg conditions, i know you can get way higher my own mesmer sit at around 1500 if not more, and i even sacrificed some here and there for some more supportish stuff

That was just meant to give a clearer picture as most condition builds will be closer to those values.

You know there is a reason I didn’t give values in my post... I know the damage would have to be adjusted for Poison and Burning before they can stack in intensity.

Now if you want to see the numbers I was thinking in my head I’ll show you..

Ok so you said at 1000 condition damage Poison does 184 per tick... Since poison has it’s debuff it won’t stack intensity in the same manor as Bleed. Instead it will stack with 20%.

1 stack {184}
2 stack {220}
3 stack {256}
4 stack {292}
25 stack {1048}
the formula per stack is (Stack - 1)(Base[184] x 0.2) + Base[184]
So 1 stack = 184 (even with the formula running on 1 stack 0 + 184 = 184)
2 stack {2 - 1 = 1} ... {1(184 x 0.2) = 36} ... {36 + 184 = 220} (20% of 184 is actually 36.8 but I rounded down)
25 stacks {25 - 1 = 24} {24 x 36 = 864} {864 + 184 = 1048}

lets compare that to Bleed
1 stack {92.5}
25 stacks {92.5 x 25 = 2312}

2312 is more than double 1084
1084 is a much more reasonable 25 stack DoT than 184

now lets look at Burning

1 stack {570}
Intensifies every 3 seconds by 5%... {570 x 0.05 = 28.5}
Each stack intensifies by 5% as well
1 stack maintained over 75 seconds will have the same intensity as 25 stacks maintained for 75 seconds.
3 seconds = 1 stack, any combination totaling 25 stacks or 75 seconds will hit cap.
5 stacks + 60 seconds = 25... (60 / 3 = 20 | 20 + 5 = 25 || 5 x 3 = 15 | 15 + 60 = 75)
25 stack/75 seconds {(25 - 1)(570 x 0.05) + 570 = 1254 | ((75 / 3) - 1)(570 x 0.05) + 570 = 1254}

Recap

Bleeding
1 stack {92.5}
25 stack {2312}

Poison
1 stack {184}
25 stack {1084}

Burning
1 stack {570}
25 stack {1254}

Iruwen.3164:

That was just meant to give a clearer picture as most condition builds will be closer to those values.

As i said it was never meants to give a clear picture of gw2 “reality” but to give a comparison BETWEEN the conditions themselves, by adding another 1500 condition dmg on top dont all of a sudden mean that a single stack of bleeding will be stronger than a single stack of burn, and 1000 is and easy to work with number

Panda.1967:

You know there is a reason I didn’t give values in my post… I know the damage would have to be adjusted for Poison and Burning before they can stack in intensity.

Now if you want to see the numbers I was thinking in my head I’ll show you..

Ok so you said at 1000 condition damage Poison does 184 per tick… Since poison has it’s debuff it won’t stack intensity in the same manor as Bleed. Instead it will stack with 20%.

1 stack {184}
2 stack {220}
3 stack {256}
4 stack {292}
25 stack {1048}
the formula per stack is (Stack – 1)(Base¹⁸⁴ x 0.2) + Base¹⁸⁴
So 1 stack = 184 (even with the formula running on 1 stack 0 + 184 = 184)
2 stack {2 – 1 = 1} … {1(184 × 0.2) = 36} … {36 + 184 = 220} (20% of 184 is actually 36.8 but I rounded down)
25 stacks {25 – 1 = 24} {24 x 36 = 864} {864 + 184 = 1048}

lets compare that to Bleed
1 stack {92.5}
25 stacks {92.5 × 25 = 2312}

2312 is more than double 1084
1084 is a much more reasonable 25 stack DoT than 184

now lets look at Burning

1 stack {570}
Intensifies every 3 seconds by 5%… {570 x 0.05 = 28.5}
Each stack intensifies by 5% as well
1 stack maintained over 75 seconds will have the same intensity as 25 stacks maintained for 75 seconds.
3 seconds = 1 stack, any combination totaling 25 stacks or 75 seconds will hit cap.
5 stacks + 60 seconds = 25… (60 / 3 = 20 | 20 + 5 = 25 || 5 × 3 = 15 | 15 + 60 = 75)
25 stack/75 seconds {(25 – 1)(570 × 0.05) + 570 = 1254 | ((75 / 3) – 1)(570 × 0.05) + 570 = 1254}

Recap

Bleeding
1 stack {92.5}
25 stack {2312}

Poison
1 stack {184}
25 stack {1084}

Burning
1 stack {570}
25 stack {1254}

now this is reasonable, you never said anything about adjusting the actual dmg numbers, but only to make them all stack in intensity. For this still though i would say burn and poison is probably a little too close in dmg to each other, specially for pvp, where the poison debuff can be as, if not more, important than the dmg part. But ofc yeah i understand any number would be subject to change.

Now the other part of this is what would we gain and loose from this other than just a change for the sake of change.

From what i see some advantages is that it might make some classes(those that ahve a hard time to get access to stack bleed, as that is main dmg condition for full condition builds) be able to get more easily access to a full condition builds. On the other hands it might also make some powerbased builds get a lot more dmg from their supplemental conditions (which is often burning, sometimes poison), meaning you might have to go over and decrease their direct dmg, which is turn would make it pretty much mandatory to have some suplementel condition dmg on a power build. Either that or ANet would have to chance some weapons to take away bleeds and poisons from them, this also what with how Anet seem to dont know how to get away with condition stack caps could go back and bite the full condition builds back in groups because power builds now take even more condition stack slots(in lack of a better word).

Also since the 25 bleed cap is mainly due to server bandwidth and such (Devs told that in the past) this would likely mean even more conditions to track for server and this more bandwidth used for Anet.

tl;dr : While it could look good on paper for a full condition build, in practice i think it would hurt both them and power builds in the long run

GummiBear.2756:

Panda.1967:

Now if you want to see the numbers I was thinking in my head I’ll show you.

…

Bleeding
1 stack {92.5}
25 stack {2312}

Poison
1 stack {184}
25 stack {1084}

Burning
1 stack {570}
25 stack {1254}

now this is reasonable, you never said anything about adjusting the actual dmg numbers, but only to make them all stack in intensity. For this still though i would say burn and poison is probably a little too close in dmg to each other, specially for pvp, where the poison debuff can be as, if not more, important than the dmg part. But ofc yeah i understand any number would be subject to change.

Now the other part of this is what would we gain and loose from this other than just a change for the sake of change.

…

Also since the 25 bleed cap is mainly due to server bandwidth and such (Devs told that in the past) this would likely mean even more conditions to track for server and this more bandwidth used for Anet.

tl;dr : While it could look good on paper for a full condition build, in practice i think it would hurt both them and power builds in the long run

Well… I had a few alternative options:

• 10% per stack on Burn that would bring it up to 1938 cap with 1000 condition damage…
• 5% per stack + 5% per 3 seconds (up to 75 seconds) compounded together for the same cap of 1938…

The first option would reach the cap quicker since the second option would require both 75 seconds consistant burn maintain and 25 stacks….

At 15% burning would surpass bleeding for DPS at 25 stacks…
15% per stack would result in 2622 cap…

Despite how near impossible it is to maintain multiple stacks of burning, let alone a single stack for a prolonged duration such as 75 seconds, I thought it’d be better balanced to keep burning’s max damage below bleeds.

Power builds that have supplemental conditions wouldn’t benefit as much as a pure Condition build either. Power builds are going to build for power, and as a result their Condition Damage more than likely wont reach the max limits that a pure Conditions build would. They may gain a larger boost in damage from increased condition stacks… but when in group content their stacks would ultimately serve to strengthen the power of a the highest condition damage player.

Altering the weapon skills any would just destroy the builds as you mentioned. Reduced direct damage would destroy many Power Builds and chance on hit Conditions would destroy Condition Builds.

Keep in Mind, Burning and Poison are for the most part short duration Conditions… that currently only stack in duration… when you stop and look at it objectively you’ll noticed that the reality of it is that a 25 stack Poison or Burning is no more effective than a single stack reapplied repeatedly… where-as Bleeds, each stack contributes to the damage, amplifying it and making a noticeable difference.

Adding a % based stacking element to Burning and Poison simply gives a real purpose to their stacks. As it is now you don’t look at 6 stacks of burning or poison and go “Get it off me!” well with Burning you might since it has a high base DPS… but when you see the same 6 stacks of Bleeding you try to kill the condition as quick as possible before it stacks any higher… the goal is to have burning and poison have the same result.

Now I wanted to explain my reasoning behind the 2-fold ramp-up on Burning… When you light something on fire the longer it burns the hotter it burns until it is burned up, if you add more fire to it it doesn’t just burn longer but it burns immediately hotter too.