Guild Wars 2

Considering the sheer scope of story available with dwarves, as well as the cultural richness of almost every currently portrayed dwarven society, I would LOVE {!!!!} to see dwarves available as a playable race.

+100 Approval

I for one think it would be pretty cool and would definitely game as one. You have said that the developers have changed their prospects on Dwarves so it could be very plausible.

Same I’d love to see the Dwarven race.

The Dwarves are all “dead” are they not?

Oglaf.1074:

The Dwarves are all “dead” are they not?

Dead as in no longer living? Yes. But since when did ‘this race must be made out of organic material’ ever be a prerequisite for a playable race?

And if you mean dead as in dead dead and no longer about – Then read my OP!

It’s the very fact they are not actually ‘living’ that, as I have said, makes them different from dwarves of other settings and even sets them apart from other races in the GW2 setting. They would fill their own little niche rather than intruding on the ground of other races.

Assuming they’re going to do an elder dragon per expansion and want to introduce a new race with each (which would make sense to me, since they don’t cause any problems to actual game balance and make people happy), I can’t think of a better option for the Primordus expansion.

Asura? Already got ‘em. Beyond that, there’s pretty much just dredge or skritt, who are almost exclusively used as enemy mobs in the game. For either to be playable, there’d have to be something that made them suddenly want us all to be friends.

…oh, and if we want the dwarves’ help against Primordus, we’d probably not be doing the right thing by making friends with their hated former slaves.

Rognor.1896:

…oh, and if we want the dwarves’ help against Primordus, we’d probably not be doing the right thing by making friends with their hated former slaves.

A large portion of those dwarves are Deldrimor dwarves not Stone Summit.
Also, they’ve been “alive” 250-300 years and have basically spent all that time fighting dragon minions. I really doubt that they care about the dredge any more.

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Rognor.1896:

…oh, and if we want the dwarves’ help against Primordus, we’d probably not be doing the right thing by making friends with their hated former slaves.

A large portion of those dwarves are Deldrimor dwarves not Stone Summit.
Also, they’ve been “alive” 250-300 years and have basically spent all that time fighting dragon minions. I really doubt that they care about the dredge any more.

True enough, but I would still imagine the Dredge would attack -them- given the chance. And the current playable races attacking dwarves whilst they are fighting Primordus just because their new Dredge friends say to would be… Nonsensical, at best. :P

Dwarves are my favorite race in any game

/signed

ThatOddOne.4387:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Rognor.1896:

…oh, and if we want the dwarves’ help against Primordus, we’d probably not be doing the right thing by making friends with their hated former slaves.

A large portion of those dwarves are Deldrimor dwarves not Stone Summit.
Also, they’ve been “alive” 250-300 years and have basically spent all that time fighting dragon minions. I really doubt that they care about the dredge any more.

True enough, but I would still imagine the Dredge would attack -them- given the chance. And the current playable races attacking dwarves whilst they are fighting Primordus just because their new Dredge friends say to would be… Nonsensical, at best. :P

I think the most pressing issue with making the Dredge a playable race might be the fact that they’re blind.
Also Skritt are stupid when they’re alone, which is obviously a huge problem there :P

ThatOddOne.4387:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Rognor.1896:

…oh, and if we want the dwarves’ help against Primordus, we’d probably not be doing the right thing by making friends with their hated former slaves.

A large portion of those dwarves are Deldrimor dwarves not Stone Summit.
Also, they’ve been “alive” 250-300 years and have basically spent all that time fighting dragon minions. I really doubt that they care about the dredge any more.

True enough, but I would still imagine the Dredge would attack -them- given the chance. And the current playable races attacking dwarves whilst they are fighting Primordus just because their new Dredge friends say to would be… Nonsensical, at best. :P

Not sure about that. The only Dredge that hate Dwarves are already hostile towards the player regardless of race. The Dredge you ally with are revolutionaries after all, and an enemy of my enemy is a friend.

Oglaf.1074:

ThatOddOne.4387:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Rognor.1896:

…oh, and if we want the dwarves’ help against Primordus, we’d probably not be doing the right thing by making friends with their hated former slaves.

A large portion of those dwarves are Deldrimor dwarves not Stone Summit.
Also, they’ve been “alive” 250-300 years and have basically spent all that time fighting dragon minions. I really doubt that they care about the dredge any more.

True enough, but I would still imagine the Dredge would attack -them- given the chance. And the current playable races attacking dwarves whilst they are fighting Primordus just because their new Dredge friends say to would be… Nonsensical, at best. :P

Not sure about that. The only Dredge that hate Dwarves are already hostile towards the player regardless of race. The Dredge you ally with are revolutionaries after all, and an enemy of my enemy is a friend.

Even if it’s the revolutionary Dredge it would still be nonsensical for the other races to attack the dwarves on a whim when they are purely focused on the Elder Dragons!

Anything and everything you want to know about dwarves and no they are not all dead.

Dwarf

A stone dwarf joins human allies in a battle against Zhaitan.

The dwarves are a dying race who once inhabited the Shiverpeak Mountains. The ruins that dot the region are remnants of their kingdom, which once spanned the mountain range. In order to fight the Destroyers, their race underwent a ritual that turned their flesh and blood into unyielding stone. They act as guardians of the Depths of Tyria, fighting off the minions of Primordus and denying them passage to the surface. As such, they are hardly ever seen.

Dwarves are short and stocky by nature, generally carrying braided beards and hair in addition to their expertly-crafted armor. They were known for their great strength, resilience, and their reputations as Tyria’s finest crafters, although they were mostly supplanted by the asura as their numbers dwindled.

History
Their race dates back to before the time of humanity, and even the Human Gods themselves.¹ Their exact origins are still unknown, but legends claim their god, the Great Dwarf, forged the first dwarves atop Anvil Rock in the Shiverpeak Mountains. By the time of humanity’s arrival the dwarves had gathered to form the nation of Deldrimor which controlled the Northern and Southern Shiverpeaks.

However, Dagnar Stonepate, cousin to the King Jalis, created a splinter faction known as the Stone Summit. This guild was composed of xenophobic dwarves who believed that their race had the right to rule over all other races. For years, a civil war waged across the Shiverpeaks between the two factions. In 1072 AE, the long-standing stalemate was broken when Ascalonian heroes aided the Deldrimor in killing Dagnar and destroying Sorrow’s Furnace, then the Stone Summit’s main base. The surviving Stone Summit retreated into exile in the Far Shiverpeaks.

With the Stone Summit’s defeat, the ancient Tome of Rubicon was unearthed and translated. Within the tome a prophecy foretelling the end of the dwarves was discovered. The prophecy came to pass in 1078 AE when, in order to combat the Great Destroyer, the dwarves underwent the Rite of the Great Dwarf. In an event known as the Transformation of the Dwarves, their race was transformed into living stone, ending their status as a mortal race. Though the Transformation granted them the power to defeat the Great Destroyer, it also warped their personalities and sense of purpose. Driven to seek battle with the minions of Primordus, they dispersed into the Depths, where they remain to this day.

At first, only the advance force accompanying King Jalis participated in the ritual and were turned to stone. Over the following years, the remaining dwarves participated. As of the present, no dwarf of flesh and blood remains.²

Spoiler alert: The following text contains spoilers relating to the story of Guild Wars 2.

As of 1325 AE, Ogden Stonehealer is the last dwarf interacting with the surface, and last known living dwarf. He is working with the Durmand Priory in fighting the Elder Dragons.

Notes

• Only some of the knowledge of the dragons was written down in the Tome of Rubicon, but other knowledge survives “elsewhere.” This may be a reference to the cryptogram at the end of The Path to Revelations (“answers lie there [Orr] in waiting”).
• Though a great deal of dwarven lore comes from the Tome of Rubicon, the actual contents of the tome have been copied and re-written over the years, and sometimes its contents have been changed for political reasons.

See, I always geek out when I see that stone dwarf in the concept art. What’s he called? Why was he up there by himself? Is this proof that stone dwarves are not as ‘single-minded’ as it was implied they are now at the end of EoTN? That they are not -all- focused on Primordus? (Well, Ogden is further proof of that anyways)

It also struck me as a massive hint and proof of lore backtracking. Seeing how ArenaNet said before GW2 was released that they were extinct.

When did they say that, I am sorry I missed that comment lol

I believe it was originally given as one of the reasons why they were not on the list for playable races for GW2’s launch.

hmm well the only thing I found was this,
Q: It is said all dwarves who participated in invoking the Great Dwarf’s power to battle the Great Destroyer were turned to stone. Are there dwarves then who are not stone out in the world somewhere still (assuming then there were some dwarves who did not participate)? If so, how are interactions between them and their stone brethren?

Ree: All of the dwarves eventually participated in the ritual. There are no non-stone dwarves in Tyria.

http://www.talktyria.net/2011/08/11/sylvari-lore-interview-with-ree-soesbee-kristen-perry/

GuildMag: Can you give us more information on the Great Dwarf, is he really a god or more like a powerful spirit (like the spirits of the wild)?

Jeff Grubb: The Great Dwarf can best be thought of as collective consciousness of the dwarves themselves (indeed, in making the prophesy of the Great Dwarf defeating the Great Destroyer coming true). Has anyone MET the Great Dwarf, and found him to be a real being? Well, that has not happened.

The whole question of gods is based upon culture. The humans have tangible, powerful beings that they can interact with – hence, gods. The spirits of the norn also fit that description, so humans would call these beings “gods” as well. Norn would disagree. And describe the human gods as being “Spirits of Action” of the humans – Balthazar is obviously War, and should be spoken of as such. Kormir is Knowledge, and calling her Kormir is a quaint human thing.

Similarly, the humans would say that asura have no gods, or that they worship some concept. The asura would say that the Eternal Alchemy is obviously a true way of looking at the universe, and that that human gods were merely functions in that equation (really BIG functions, but functions nonetheless).

And while the Charr recognize the humans gods as powerful patrons, they reject those patrons as being all-powerful or worthy of veneration. Indeed, such worship makes the worshippers weak.

http://www.guildmag.com/gmblitz-lore-interview-with-jeff-grubb

Hell yes. Bring on the dwarves in an expansion as the ‘protagonists’ against new threats in underground Tyria with Primordus. Dwarves come out of isolation and ask the surface races to assist them, cultural and racial conflicts happen, forces unite to overcome the foe, yada yada you know how it goes by now.

Ree: All of the dwarves eventually participated in the ritual. There are no non-stone dwarves in Tyria.

I stand corrected then! But still, that simply backs up my point further that they are simply not made of flesh and bone, which does not preclude them from being a playable race!

Though I never liked dwarves, and enjoy beating them in every game I find them in, I’d love to see this happen, Ogden further proves, even the dwarves understand, fighting together is the only real way to stop the Dragons. Perhaps with each expansion where we fight a dragon, a race that is closely tied to it will be added, such as the Kodan and Jormag.

Welp, you’d get to beat on them in WvW! And Stone Summit too!

As to a race every dragon, this would be VERY interesting. The ideas I have for that would be:

Primordus = Dwarves
Jormag = Kodan
Kralkatorik = Elonian Undead (Under Palawa Joko)
Bubbles = Tengu?

I think I missed a dragon besides Zhaitan.

To be fair, Jormag kitten-up a lot more races than Kodan.

I’m pretty sure Asura were invented to take the Dwarves place in society as the tinkerers.

While I understand the desire for a familiar race, I’d rather they just give us the option to create midgets from the human race. The height-minimum is discriminatory!! /joke :P

But seriously, I would prefer other more innovative races. Like a sentient golem race where we can pick quirky looking golems to play.

Or being able to play the existing and awesome Skritt, Kodan, or Tengu would be epic too.

And My AXE!

(this means I am in for it)
but lore-wise it wouldn’t be right. The dwarves are mindles and just seek the destruction of the destroyers, exceptOgden Stonehealer, wich makes it possible that a dwarftribe found a way to live with the transformation, but don’t come up, because of shame? because of the ED? idk just guessing here

Thing with the Asura is that they already existed when the dwarves did, rather than being made specifically to replace them.

And as to the dwarves being mindless, that’s not entirely true. They’ve been changed, but they’re certainly not mindless.

Apologies for the double-post, but I’m just going to add that whilst I am under no illusion dwarves would be very popular numbers wise, I can say with certainty there is a solid core of fans that would play them.

I’ll also repeat what I said in that ArenaNet is quite capable of making dwarves unique and interesting, and it wouldn’t be change for the sake of change – It would be change because its needed and it ties in with how the world is changing.

How do you deal with armour for a race whose skin is turned into hard rock? Why would a Dwarf Elementalist bother to wear flimsy robes over his rock hard exterior, for example?

Decoration and an attempt at gaining individuality, being different from their kin who are very similar?

A good example for such would be… That race from TERA, I can’t remember which. The stone giants. They wear clothes and all that.

You’re missing my point: they would not offer any protection over what he already has.

Shrug They can still wear it and get stats for it. That’s mechanics, no mechanics need to change despite them being made out of rock. A charr has the same toughness and power as a human for example, when that isn’t the case in lore.

If anything that is making sacrifices lore wise for the sake of mechanics, which is fine when referring to armour. It’s a bit of a none-issue.

I just think it would seem sorta stupid that a piece of living rock gets “harder” because he/she draped a robe over himself.

Also, I just noticed that Ogden isn’t exactly naked: the clothes he wore as he turned to rock turned with him. Seems rather.. non-changeable, that outfit of his.

He doesn’t, not lore wise anyways. Mechanics wise he would. As I said this seems a bit of a none-issue.

You keep saying that, but I don’t agree. If somehow a group of flesh and blood dwarves were found and made as the playable dwarf faction, that would work because armour would serve the same purpose as for all the other playable races.

The current dwarves are more like earth elementals nowadays, and you don’t see them clad in armour.

A good thing what stone dwarves may wear has never, ever been covered in lore then, hmn? As I have said, ArenaNet is creative and they can think of a way if they wanted to give it a shot and were given encouragement to that regard.

I would love to see Dwarves in Gw2 as a playable race ( i wouldnt use one prob since im keeping it on one char,my norn ) but i always like to see dwarves,loved them in gw1 aswell.

There’s some things a race needs to be playable:
- Society with a ‘main city’ or their race’s equivalent so they can have a home instance an an introduction to their story, a past and stuff like that.
- A source of unlimited numbers (reproduction).
- Customization with varied appearance and, of course, colors, so not everone looks the same.

Dwarves are scattered in the depths, they are stone so they no longer reproduce, and they all look like made out of greenish gray stone.

They made sure they can never be a playable race.
This also means that Kodan, Quaggan, Ogres, Grawl, Skritt and Hylek can’t be a playable race.

But Tengu and Largos could.

Hello,i am here to suggest you a new race called ’’Orcs’’.Orcs as you all know are greenskins but also grey skins redskins. Their height is like norn’s height and they are ferocious. Orcs is a powerful race killing everything that stands in their way.But now their homeland is being sieged and they are trying to find some allies to help them. To succed they will rely on the races of tyria and mainly on Norn who are both ferocious and powerful. Together they will manage to deafeat their common foes….the Ancient Dragons. this is how i imagine the quests: At first orcs will learn how to fight with honor and strenght…then the great foe will aproach and they to capture their land…after fighting for many months orcs will search for allies to help them as their troops are being reduced. At first they will find norn and after many months all the races of tyria will help orcs to protect their lane and defeat their foes. I think orc’s race would be something new and exciting. Are there any possibilities to appear in the next expansion? thank you for reading. (tell me your opinion).

MithranArkanere.8957:

There’s some things a race needs to be playable:
- Society with a ‘main city’ or their race’s equivalent so they can have a home instance an an introduction to their story, a past and stuff like that.
- A source of unlimited numbers (reproduction).
- Customization with varied appearance and, of course, colors, so not everone looks the same.

Dwarves are scattered in the depths, they are stone so they no longer reproduce, and they all look like made out of greenish gray stone.

They made sure they can never be a playable race.
This also means that Kodan, Quaggan, Ogres, Grawl, Skritt and Hylek can’t be a playable race.

But Tengu and Largos could.

- Soceity with a main city? Thunderhead Keep. I take it you’ve seen the capital city sized blob in the Deldrimor Front area of the world map? It’s in the rough location Thunderhead Keep was.
- A source of unlimited numbers? … Not a requirement for a playable race, as far as I am aware. Besides, see my OP for a suggestion on that, there could be other ways.
- Customisation? I am sure ArenaNet is creative enough for that. I point you to the race of stone people in TERA, they had very interesting and cool looking customisation options. Marble, gemstones, veins of metal. These are your customisation options.

I have filled my original post to the brim with suggestions for a dwarf character’s personal story, so I do hope you haven’t ignored them.

In short – There is this thing called story development. And story development as I have suggested makes sense and is not implausible.

They ‘made sure’ they can no longer be a playable race? On the contrary, I see them opening doors to them being made a playable race with a new and interesting twist that sets them apart from dwarves of other settings.

Development. It is good.

Double post again!

http://huntersinsight.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/battle_at_orr.jpeg

That dwarf does, in fact, not have any armour on him. He is also a green colour. Yes, it is possible for there to be variation in stone. The world is shocked.

Look near his shoulder. There is a leather strap with metal studs on it, now turned to stone with him. So whatever they wore apparently turned to stone with them (as with Ogden).

And has apparently eroded enough to now be considered part of him, and there is nothing stopping him from adding extra pieces of armour or cloth on top of that should he wish to? I’ve already replied to you on the subject more than enough to prove that this is hardly an issue that stops them from ever becoming a playable race. Why not try and find other reasons? I’d be happy to argue them.

This game in my opinion NEED’S dwarves, not only are they my favorite mystical race (Next to Norn) but without them the land of Tyria seems kind of empty. I know that do to lore restriction’s living, breathing, organic dwarves aren’t feasible but even in their current stone state they would be amazing to play as. Maybe be able to pick what type of stone they are? Anyway basically I am one hundred percent behind this and really really hope to see them return.

If you played Guild Wars 1 you know why they aren’t here
If you didn’t, then go spend the whole 5 minutes on GW1 Wiki and the search feature to the left.
Merry Christmas.

p.s. only way they can make a logical return lore wise is if and only If Primordus dies and all destroyers go bye bye. Then based on the lore it would be possible for the spell to be broken and the dwarves to be turned back to normal from their stone state.

… I don’t think you’ve read the thread, or my post.

Kindly do so.

Merry Christmas.

I read the thread which includes your posts, for the most part I agree with the Dwarves coming back; however, as GW1 finished the hints dropped throughout the lead up to GW2 and in GW2 it’s self I think the only way they can comback is by having Primordus defeated to potentially break the spell that was cast on them.

They were turned into stone not bullet proof, bomb proof armour, I’d imagine some of em were probably destroyed by the inferior races when they fled to the surface. So the concept of having them do some type of super necromancy combat ninja stuff to fight a dragon doesn’t seem like it work out so well.

Sorry if my previous post was to vague on what I was aiming at.

What I suggested was simply a suggestion. There are other ways they can return to a strength viable for being a playable race one of which being they are -already- at a strength viable for being a playable race, we just haven’t seen this because they’re underground. We could say there were a lot of dwarves in the first place, they were one of the most powerful races of their time, after all, with a large population. The ones who got turned into stone to begin with were Jalis and his Vanguard, after all, with the rest of the dwarven race following, that’s not numbers to sniff at and whilst casualties would no doubt be high, the dwarves’ resilient bodies would simply be enough to allow them to hold out in sufficient numbers for 200 years. They were also skilled stone crafters, so maybe they are capable of fixing each other’s bodies to keep them fighting?

I must also stress that the entire point of them coming back in a Primordus expansion is to fight Primordus. And once he is defeated in that expansion they can be freed of that purpose and turn on the other Elder Dragons as a race. (The playable character would be an exception, like the dwarf shown to be fighting Zhaitan’s forces in the artwork, to justify him/her/it going about leveling in older zones).

The Tome of Rubicon, which is what they go by, has been said to not be a full version of their history, some bits have been missed out. And the dwarves fought -all- the Elder Dragons in the past, so it’s not unreasonable to assume their task could extend to all the Elder Dragons and once that is done with they can either fade away or rebuild, but that wouldn’t happen in GW2 the game’s timeline, so it would be largely irrelevant to the question of them becoming a playable race.

Take a stone statue, break it half. Try fixing it flawlessly, go ahead ill wait :P
Now apply simple biology to that matter,
with that in mind decapitate a statue and try to fix it perfectly so that all missing minerals and fragments are added back just right.

According to the lore ALL Dwarves were forced to turn into stone.
Didn’t say just only the goodie dwarves turned into stone

The last dwarf spotting in the lore was of Ogden Stonehealer
Also another lore snippet:
“As the last known dwarf, he is targeted by the vengeful dredge which seek to eliminate all of the dwarves.”

Wouldn’t be the last if there wasn’t a way to kill them off o.o
I don’t think stone dwarves can reproduce, may be a little to much friction
which if they could reproduce then they are hiding in the forest hence all the forest fires .

They don’t need to reproduce when they don’t die of old age and can be fixed, can they? Naturally there’d be a point where they simply cannot be fixed, but I doubt this would happen to every single stone dwarf, and when it’s an entire race we’re talking about, which, if we go by medieval-ish numbers is still in the millions, it’s not really that outlandish for there to be enough about to allow them to be a playable race. (I’ve long held the opinion numbers don’t actually matter for becoming playable anyways).

That is when you first meet him. In Arah Explorable he outright says “The rest of the dwarves are fighting Primordus.”

You came up with a different point, rather than countering the ones in my post, so by that I must assume that you cannot actually counter them!

Actually they can die of old age, further reading through out the gw2 wiki states that they are vulnerable to the aging process; however, the exact median age for a dwarf to die off at was never really learned. Which goes back to before they became stone. With that in mind, logically it is not farfetched for some to reach 200-300 years of age with out dieing. However, with that in mind some of the older dwarves would have most likely died off. Ogden Stonehealer was quite the young dwarf in gw1.

They are fighting Primordus + Skritt +dredge
Primordus vs Dwarf = stale mate or the point of this thread would be 100% invalid since we will be talking about a game that does not exist
Dredge vs Dwarf= Some Success or they wouldn’t have a hit on Ogden
Skritt vs Dwarf= along as their are shinnies around Skritt win since they are explosive bound and explosions beats rock.
Father Time vs Dwarf = to be seen since the median age for death is not known before or after the stoning process began.

Where exactly does it state that as stone dwarves they age like they would if they were organic?