Guild Wars 2

I love the down-leveling. If I’m going to a lower level area I feel more powerful, but yet I still can’t just casually flick my finger to kill everything around me instantly. This allows me to help friends with alts without being absolutely boring while still giving me rewards as if I was in a higher level area.

Although I wish the rewards were better. It doesn’t feel like I’m getting the same amount of XP and loot even though I’m still working nearly as hard. I think more people would be more willing to revisit lower areas if the rewards were as good as being in higher areas.

Wish I could “down vote a post”. Your “wishes” couldn’t be further from the spirit and truth of GW2, and I encourage you to look elsewhere to satisfy your MMO needs. Even if arenanet is slowly introducing an ITEM treadmill, or a stat treadmill via verticle progression, the game is definately not about that and they even stand firm on this.

Did you know that initially this game was to have an upleveling system, where a lvl 5 could go to a level 20 zone and be upleveled in the way that he/she would be downleveled? They removed it. But it could have been there. Just goes to show where Arenanets direction is, and where your mind set is(complete opposites).

Level scaling is good where its at now. I can already steamroll events in lowers in exotics & that makes my kitten feel good.

(There are parts of zones though that are downed leveled too far by about 5-8 levels that come to mind. 1 with lava elemetal worms near a vista and water, and another with wolfs just up a hill that all get pulled once u get to the top of the hill.)

Writetyper.1985:

pkbot.1345:

Why is this as an issue? Because one of the BIGGEST reasons for playing an RPG is to progress to higher power levels consistently, and feel powerful. The level scaling system at level 80 makes it feel like I just bought a new Porsche but I have to park it on certain streets to ride my bike.

I don’t see the logic in this, where is the entertainment in going to a low level zone where you one shot everything, where the challenge is even less than in regular PvE? Where is the fun in pressing 1 and seeing things get 1 shot? Do you want to show off? You basically want to run around a low level zone going “Hah!~ I’ve played the game longer than you!” to lower level players? Do you realize how rediculous that sounds?

It’s bad enough anyway. There’s no reason to go back to a lower level zone because rewards are not scaled. There’s also the added fact that the downscaling system doesn’t seem to work properly and on top of that you also have tri-stat gear, full traits, and runes that lower level players simply don’t have. Why would you want to make it worse?

Also if you want to one-shot things to fulfill some ridiculous desire, there are rabbits and rats and stuff everywhere.

Alright, I’m going to choose you to respond to out of the handful of other people in this thread that aren’t really getting this post.

This change is not so “You can go one shot everything in low level zones”. It’s to improve the RPG/leveling/powering up aspect of GW2 because if I had the “Level Scaling” option unchecked from 1 to 80, it would’ve been a much more clear and understandable experience.

As opposed to:

Cool, I’ve built up my character to 5,000 hp and with my new weapon my basic attacks are hitting for 300!

2 seconds later

I have 3,000 hp and I’m hitting for 200..

With this fluctuation constantly going on, it is hard to get that classic RPG leveling up feeling that we all know and love.

The reason I think it should be optional is because I agree with you all, the dynamic leveling scaling system allows for a lot of freedom when it comes to exploration and playing with your lower leveling friends. But given that there are some clear negative sides to it, I was putting it out there for the community and the devs to consider these changes, as I would have a lot more fun leveling my alts with that option unchecked.

pkbot.1345:

Why is this as an issue? Because one of the BIGGEST reasons for playing an RPG is to progress to higher power levels consistently, and feel powerful.

Tell me… just between us… do you feel you have to compensate for something?

pkbot.1345:

Writetyper.1985:

pkbot.1345:

Why is this as an issue? Because one of the BIGGEST reasons for playing an RPG is to progress to higher power levels consistently, and feel powerful. The level scaling system at level 80 makes it feel like I just bought a new Porsche but I have to park it on certain streets to ride my bike.

I don’t see the logic in this, where is the entertainment in going to a low level zone where you one shot everything, where the challenge is even less than in regular PvE? Where is the fun in pressing 1 and seeing things get 1 shot? Do you want to show off? You basically want to run around a low level zone going “Hah!~ I’ve played the game longer than you!” to lower level players? Do you realize how rediculous that sounds?

It’s bad enough anyway. There’s no reason to go back to a lower level zone because rewards are not scaled. There’s also the added fact that the downscaling system doesn’t seem to work properly and on top of that you also have tri-stat gear, full traits, and runes that lower level players simply don’t have. Why would you want to make it worse?

Also if you want to one-shot things to fulfill some ridiculous desire, there are rabbits and rats and stuff everywhere.

Alright, I’m going to choose you to respond to out of the handful of other people in this thread that aren’t really getting this post.

This change is not so “You can go one shot everything in low level zones”. It’s to improve the RPG/leveling/powering up aspect of GW2 because if I had the “Level Scaling” option unchecked from 1 to 80, it would’ve been a much more clear and understandable experience.

As opposed to:

Cool, I’ve built up my character to 5,000 hp and with my new weapon my basic attacks are hitting for 300!

2 seconds later

I have 3,000 hp and I’m hitting for 200..

With this fluctuation constantly going on, it is hard to get that classic RPG leveling up feeling that we all know and love.

The reason I think it should be optional is because I agree with you all, the dynamic leveling scaling system allows for a lot of freedom when it comes to exploration and playing with your lower leveling friends. But given that there are some clear negative sides to it, I was putting it out there for the community and the devs to consider these changes, as I would have a lot more fun leveling my alts with that option unchecked.

To paraphrase:

I do not understand how the game machanics work and I refuse to try too

PK wrote:

“…it is hard to get that classic RPG leveling up feeling that we all know and love….”

ANet made it clear from the very beginning that this game wouldn’t adhere to what you are talking about. Its been fairly successful, I think, it trying to do that. Some misteps, sure…but level scaling isn’t one of them.

If anything, I would like to have stronger down-scaling on lower level areas.

The level scaling system is very prohibitive. Research has been done. At level 80, if you are not at least in level 80 rares, your stats will be LOWER than someone who is level appropriate in greens.

So, in general, if you level up, your stats GO DOWN (not up) until you get better gear.

Personally, I would prefer the system as they described it early in development. MOST stats (items, etc.) would scale. SOME STATS (Trait stats specifically) would not. That way you still feel advancement without getting too strong.

This was just one of the many things that annoyed me enough into quitting the game..I never felt like I was getting more powerful anytime I leveled up it meant nothing as I would always be scaled. Someone mentioned Skyrim as having “harder mobs” Just got 100 destruction magic on my mage last night..and yea…even elder dragons are pretty easy now. See thats progress, Guild wars never really had that progress feel. Even Guild Wars 1 with its statscap let you keep your stats once you got them.

I would only agree if it would result in making the creatures at a lower lvl than you non-hostile (and attacking them would result in the level scale being re-enabled.) But that might make some Vistas and POIs too easy.

level scaling is one of the best features of the game. if you remove it you will have a totally different game and basically will have to design everything else from the ground up

New player joins.

Area filled with dudes 1 shotting everything.

Cant get a kill.

Quits.

I really wonder if a not-downscaling-option would be actually used that much. I mean considering that you have all the disadvantages that come along with that in MMOs usually. (Like no loot, no exp, no karma whatever, or at least significantly less.)

GummiBear.2756:

PetricaKerempuh.7958:

we are in pve open world. u turn off scaling as lvl 80. im lvl 1 and have scaling turned on… how exactly would that work?

dont think it would be a problem technically tbh, if they can make harvest nodes specific for each player sure they could have different scaling for each player, if anything taht would be even easier, but ofc a i said earlier there is other problems with it so it should absolutetly not even be considered

what i was trying to say is: i have scaling turned on because i dont want your lvl 80 one hitting around me… but you have your turned off… i dnt… see…

You’re already extremely strong when you go and revisit the lower areas if you’re an 80 geared in exotics.

Even if you’re geared for pure tank stats rather than damage, you still mow things down with ease.

If there was just outright no scaling at all, what you’d be looking at is any level 80 at your level 50 event or something blowing things up so fast with area attacks you might not even be able to get to participate. You’d also see the earlier tiers of crafting mats completely trivialized due to the millions that would be appearing on the TP due t the massively increased killing speed of people roaming around clearing the zone.

Minion of Vey.4398:

You’re already extremely strong when you go and revisit the lower areas if you’re an 80 geared in exotics. .

If your a 30 doing 10-15, you are well ahead of the curve, no need to wait until 80.

The problem with level scaling is it actually makes the game MORE grindy, not less. There is never a point where I feel any stronger/weaker in the game after level 15ish- from then on it’s just the same thing, everywhere, over and over and over.

In another mmo, I could break up my of level grinding by going back and doing some low level quests I missed and simply destroying them- but, due to scaling, I go back to an old zone and it is going to be monotonous and slow because they have the same health as what I was killing at level.

It’s the lack of variety that makes this game feel so grindy- I feel like I’m doing the exact same quests I did at level 10 at level 50 at level 70 even if I am in of level zones- and while the blandness wouldn’t be entirely fixed by no scaling, at least I’d have the option when doing map completion in particular to breeze through easy part- it feels downright stupid that I’m off fighting huge monsters and dragons- only to go fight little woodland creatures that for some reason are just as powerful.

I don’t mind there being something like this for pvp- it keeps pvp competitive. I don’t mind there being no huge gear reliance- but there’s really no feeling at any point in the level grind that you’re getting stronger or more experienced than you were back when you first picked up a sword and figured out which end you stick into the enemy, and as a result it feels like you’re doing the exact same thing all game- until you hit Orr and do the exact same thing every day there.

Anet- you can’t simply remove gear/rewards from the game, but keep every single other aspect of grindiness in your game and call it a game with no grind- no, GW2 isn’t a game with no grind, it’s a game with no REWARDS for that grind, but it is still as grindy feeling as anything else.

It’s just a grind that you never feel lessen because you never, ever, outlevel/gear what you just spent that last two weeks doing.

fungihoujo.8476:

The problem with level scaling is it actually makes the game MORE grindy, not less. There is never a point where I feel any stronger/weaker in the game after level 15ish- from then on it’s just the same thing, everywhere, over and over and over.

In another mmo, I could break up my of level grinding by going back and doing some low level quests I missed and simply destroying them- but, due to scaling, I go back to an old zone and it is going to be monotonous and slow because they have the same health as what I was killing at level.

You could go back, but you would get zero rewards for it (seriously, you shouldn’t expect rewards for something you put zero effort in). Now you can go back and still profit from it.

Also… you haven’t apparently actually tried doing that at all, or you would see that being even 10 levels above the area makes a big difference even with level scaling. Doing a starting area with a level 60+ char, you can oneshot half of the opponents, and two-shot the rest. I don’t know what more might you want.

It is to prevent high level bullies going to low level area to kill-steal low level mobs. Imagine, a bunch of enthusiastic beginners are heading to defeat Shadow Behemoth when it spawns but then a bunch of level 80 bullies come and kill it off even before the beginners could land a hit. That is something ANet doesn’t want happening.

This isn’t WoW. You want that feeling of being powerful in low-level place, you can play WoW or other MMORPG.

As it is, my level 80 ele could 1-shot those Ascalonian spirits in Plains of Ashford when he crits. IMO, level scaling needs to be look into again.

Swing a sword well enough and you’ll feel powerful without any unnecessary stat advantages.

Besides, it’s not like any of the low level zones are challenging to begin with.
There have been so many times when I have fought a champion just to go AFK for 5 minutes on auto-attack because of their incredible and undeserving pool of health.

I would hate the idea of level scaling being removed because it would just have a lot of griefers destroying low level events and stop my playing low level zones. you already get more powerful by getting more traits, exotics etc. I’m truly worried that GW2 will become another WoW clone with the number of people whining to get the trinity back in and now level scaling.

I enjoy the level scaling in this game, it means I can’t just walk into an area and one shot kill everything. If I want to farm a specific lower level area, then I have to work at it. This game would be too boring to travel in low level areas with high level characters if there was no risk.

FateZero.8536:

It is to prevent high level bullies going to low level area to kill-steal low level mobs. Imagine, a bunch of enthusiastic beginners are heading to defeat Shadow Behemoth when it spawns but then a bunch of level 80 bullies come and kill it off even before the beginners could land a hit. That is something ANet doesn’t want happening.

This isn’t WoW. You want that feeling of being powerful in low-level place, you can play WoW or other MMORPG.

As it is, my level 80 ele could 1-shot those Ascalonian spirits in Plains of Ashford when he crits. IMO, level scaling needs to be look into again.

I miss the days when people would read the thread before responding.

Not only that, but you continually contradict yourself by saying “It’s to prevent high-level bullies kill stealing in low level areas” then move on to say “I can one shot everything in Plains of Ashford with my level 80”. So…if that’s the case then why aren’t high level players griefing low level areas?

Especially since they can gain experience + loot while doing so? I was suggesting to remove the experience rewards from mobs outside of your level range when they are not scaled down.

Anyways, I put this suggestion out there simply because the “leveling up” experience, including being max level, was fairly underwhelming because my stats were all over the place constantly. I didn’t get a good connection to my character’s power as it was increasing because I wasn’t sure what it really was. I’m just repeating myself here, but it seems like most people aren’t understanding the ideals behind making the level scaling system OPTIONAL.

Your characters power should be measured against the hardest difficulty level of the game – not the easiest. The enemies power is capped, however, you can still adjust your gear to improve your ability to take down those high end enemies. Don’t focus how strong you can be against a lv1 weakling – focus on how quickly you can take down a lv80 vet or champion.

Level scaling is there to prevent lv80 players taking all the credit, more often than not, in low level zones specifically from low level players.

I love that level scaling is on 100% of the time. Rift, another MMO that does a lot of open world events, had a huge problem with high levels rolling through low level zones and finishing up the events in seconds, making it impossible for low level players to participate.

Arenanet had the forethought to stop that. I applaud them for that and am glad to know forced level scaling is here to stay.

pkbot.1345:

FateZero.8536:

It is to prevent high level bullies going to low level area to kill-steal low level mobs. Imagine, a bunch of enthusiastic beginners are heading to defeat Shadow Behemoth when it spawns but then a bunch of level 80 bullies come and kill it off even before the beginners could land a hit. That is something ANet doesn’t want happening.

This isn’t WoW. You want that feeling of being powerful in low-level place, you can play WoW or other MMORPG.

As it is, my level 80 ele could 1-shot those Ascalonian spirits in Plains of Ashford when he crits. IMO, level scaling needs to be look into again.

I miss the days when people would read the thread before responding.

Not only that, but you continually contradict yourself by saying “It’s to prevent high-level bullies kill stealing in low level areas” then move on to say “I can one shot everything in Plains of Ashford with my level 80”. So…if that’s the case then why aren’t high level players griefing low level areas?

Especially since they can gain experience + loot while doing so? I was suggesting to remove the experience rewards from mobs outside of your level range when they are not scaled down.

Anyways, I put this suggestion out there simply because the “leveling up” experience, including being max level, was fairly underwhelming because my stats were all over the place constantly. I didn’t get a good connection to my character’s power as it was increasing because I wasn’t sure what it really was. I’m just repeating myself here, but it seems like most people aren’t understanding the ideals behind making the level scaling system OPTIONAL.

Yea, I see the word OPTIONAL there but what makes you so sure this feature will not be abused to grief lower level players at low level zones? Since they can just turn it off anytime. Kindly explain this to me.

Also, level scaling is one of GW2 selling point. It was promoted and featured even before it was launched. You very well know what you’re getting yourself into. Why whine now? You like the classic MMO feel then no one is stopping you to play a classic MMO. ANet clearly stated that they want to create a whole new experience in GW2 unlike classic MMO. It’s like, “Hey, I bought a Rolls Royce but it feels different from a Porsche. You guys should make it feel more like a Porsche.”.

I miss the old days where people learn to read what they were buying before buying and complain this isn’t what they want.

Disagree. If people can turn off level scaling at will, it means they can steamroll stuff and that opens up the possibility of griefing and trivializes dungeon encounters. The argument of disabling your rewards when the zone is much lower than you is self-defeating because then you have no reason to be there…

It also opens up a bunch of other cans of worms and dev resources would best be spent elsewhere:

- How do you handle parties of mixed people who are scaled / unscaled?
- How do you stop unscaled players from easily harvesting nodes? All a level 80 has to do is hit a level 70 zone while unscaled and nothing will be a threat to them.
- How do you stop unscaled players from effortlessly achieving 100% map completion on level 70- zones?

There are far too many problems with this idea. Besides, as it is now downscaling hardly removes the sense of progression. Go into an area 20 levels below you and you’ll still have a far easier time than you did when you were at the zone’s level. I think downscaling is in a sweet spot right now. It clips your wings enough that you have to watch your back, but you still have a huge power advantage.

“Level Scaling should be optional…” This is true and this is how it should be
(and pre-launch I thought this is how it would be)

Say you are lvl 80 in a 15-25 zone and you get scaled to level 15
Here you SHOULD be able to optionally lower yourself MORE!
In gw1 we had the choice of normal or hard mode, not possible in gw2 since we now have an open world but this is the way to do it now!

Regarding loot, you could get more and more loot of your actual level, the more you are scaled down to make it more rewarding

It’s should be optional in any zones with risen.

Ehehe. Level scalling is one of those rare things Anet actually nailed in this game and still people complains about it.

Level scaling is a major disease of gameplay. It makes gaining levels totally irrelevant. If you have level scaling in a game then that game should not have levels at all because scaling makes leveling worthless. Making scaling and OPTION in this game I could live with. Then those who want it can use it and those who don’t won’t. PLEASE get rid of this heinous practice in gaming. Level scaling should NEVER NEVER NEVER be used as it takes the satisfaction of becoming more powerful away from the player.

The point of being a higher level character trolling a low level area is illusive at best. Why spend time in low level areas at all? Other than to map them or complete areas just to go rampaging through to one shot stuff is absurd but if it is fun for some then what the heck they should be able to do it? People of all ages and abilities/disabilities play this game all of us don’t have the best comp or internet connection so why penalize them for what is beyond their control?

Exstacy Lane.9672:

The point of being a higher level character trolling a low level area is illusive at best. Why spend time in low level areas at all? Other than to map them or complete areas just to go rampaging through to one shot stuff is absurd but if it is fun for some then what the heck they should be able to do it? People of all ages and abilities/disabilities play this game all of us don’t have the best comp or internet connection so why penalize them for what is beyond their control?

so instead you want to penalize the ppl in that area that is actually at level? since with lvl 80’s going around they never get a chance to get even a single hit in on any heart events and would likely have trouble finding stuff for the hearts since it all be dead most of the time

Shade.6081:

Level scaling is a major disease of gameplay. It makes gaining levels totally irrelevant. If you have level scaling in a game then that game should not have levels at all because scaling makes leveling worthless. Making scaling and OPTION in this game I could live with. Then those who want it can use it and those who don’t won’t. PLEASE get rid of this heinous practice in gaming. Level scaling should NEVER NEVER NEVER be used as it takes the satisfaction of becoming more powerful away from the player.

My L80 characters have a much easier time in L1-15 zones than my L1-15 characters. The maxed ones are nearly indestructible and rip through foes like a warm knife through butter. ANet could increase the amount of downleveling and I still wouldn’t feel much risk in newbie zones.

If you aren’t feeling more powerful, then you probably want to re-evaluate your gear and build.

The point of scaling is that it allows lowbie and max toons to play side-by-side. Accordingly, it can’t be optional, otherwise high-level characters would have too much of an advantage. This would allow them to farm without effort and/or grief new characters. Plus, it removes any challenge for going into lowbie zones.

However, I would support an option that allowed you to be super-downleveled, i.e. that you would have traits, skills, and gear comparable to the zone, rather than just reduced in stats. For example, in L10 zone, you would have no traits, no elite skill, and only two stats/gear instead of three (from green+ gear available to L80 toons).

Heard it all before and the argument is basically bs. If there are high level characters keeping the low level characters from completing a particular area move on to another area….they can’t be everywhere all the time. That argument is for whiners. And my gear is always maxed out for what ever level I am currently. I have yet to hear a legitimate and logical argument for keeping level scaling. It is as I said before the disease of gaming and should be banned. And it does make character levels pointless.

Shade.6081:

Heard it all before and the argument is basically bs. If there are high level characters keeping the low level characters from completing a particular area move on to another area….they can’t be everywhere all the time. That argument is for whiners. And my gear is always maxed out for what ever level I am currently. I have yet to hear a legitimate and logical argument for keeping level scaling. It is as I said before the disease of gaming and should be banned. And it does make character levels pointless.

Maybe you’re just refusing to like it o.O?

I think it’s more option than facts or something that can be calculated/proven right/wrong.

With dynamic leveling, it does diminish the sense of leveling up, but not too much. You’re still stronger than a person of that zone’s level. However, it does have some pretty nice plus to it. You now can play any place in the map and feel that it isn’t just a roflstomp of newbie NPCs lol. And as some mentioned before, you can level with friends and join up with people much more easily without ruining their experience of the game.

Now, imagine if they let you have an option to not downlevel. Say you’re at an event with 30+ players, and you decided to be a hero. You jump in, boom, boss is down. It’s just … I don’t know what to say but for a game like GW2 where a large chunk of your leveling comes from dynamic events, downleveling is needed. Plus, since you downlevel, the content from the NPCs upscale a bit to your level. If you remove downleveling, then they’d have to remove the content loot scaling too.

There are soo many posts like this, go back to the farming boss killing mmo you came from, this aint how the majority of players want the game to become.
And there way more ppl playing than whining in the forums. Find another to get ya greedy mits on gold /rant off.

It is already extremely easy to plow through low level zones when fully geared, and you want it to be worse? What using 1 skill per enemy is too much? In Wayfarer foothills my power thief can 1shot some enemies if I build enough might. No, have to disagree entirely. And this isn’t a traditional MMO, it is entirely a new game and you should be glad someone isn’t going around 1 shotting everything with a basic attack.

If one is lv80, with the elite skills and full trait, he still can’t fly over the low level area, there must be something wrong in his play style. I say this because I can do this with my ele.

GW2 is not like some games which just let you stand at a spot and shot shot shot like a bot….you need to dodge / kite the mobs / heal yourself like a living real human.

I love how the level 5 bandit champ can 2 hit kill my level 80 full exotic character… I know its a group event but…

pkbot.1345:

If the whole point of the system was so that you could play the game with your lower level friends and not make it too easy for them, then why is it forced on you 100% of the time?

This is what you wish down scaling was for.

This is a sandbox style game. Level 80 just means you can play all the content besides heart tasks. Anet want to continuously develop the whole world with new content for all players.

Kal Spiro.9745:

The ONLY reason to want it to be turned off, the ONLY reason, is to show off how much rediculous damage you can do to level 2 mobs.

No, this isn’t why I don’t like it. I don’t like the leveling system in GW2 for 1 reason, it makes leveling worthless.

They should have stayed with their original premise of no leveling at all, e.g. make the game all about skill, not gear or level stats.

I love the downscaling, for all the reasons the supporters have listed in this thread.

I just want to note that it is hardly surprising that someone who chooses a forum name meaning “player killer robot” would want to be able to gank everything by breathing on it.

Funny, people complained about lack of downscaling in EQ2 until they finally introduced a chronomage npc, that allows you to temporarily reset your level and do outleveled content at an appropriate level to get rewards.

The other nice thing about scaling is there is no restrictions on grouping. All traditional mmos I’ve played will turn off exp and loot for the low level player grouped with a player out of their level range, unless the High level mentors down..

I agree.

I want to one-shot every mob in the dynamic event and ruin the game for everyone.

StormageddonBK.9842:

Kal Spiro.9745:

The ONLY reason to want it to be turned off, the ONLY reason, is to show off how much rediculous damage you can do to level 2 mobs.

No, this isn’t why I don’t like it. I don’t like the leveling system in GW2 for 1 reason, it makes leveling worthless.

They should have stayed with their original premise of no leveling at all, e.g. make the game all about skill, not gear or level stats.

It does not make the leveling worthless, instead of simply adding you power by default, leveling up opens you up more options and possibilities to customize your play style by unlocking more traits and more skills, it’s simple as that. The level is just an indicator how many traits you have at your disposal, demanding you must be stronger by default because you simply have a higher number is incredibly selfish and ignorant of how good and fair games actually work. I’m aware you got used to how things work in other MMOs, but that doesn’t mean that THAT is the right way to make it so. They did stay with their original concept that its all about skill, how can you be so blind to not see that? That’s why you downscale, because levels DON’T MATTER at all, you should ignore them, it’s all about skill. The point of the game isn’t to level up, it’s to play the game, why are you so stuck on thinking that everything revolves around this one silly number?

Doomguard.5094:

StormageddonBK.9842:

Kal Spiro.9745:

The ONLY reason to want it to be turned off, the ONLY reason, is to show off how much rediculous damage you can do to level 2 mobs.

No, this isn’t why I don’t like it. I don’t like the leveling system in GW2 for 1 reason, it makes leveling worthless.

They should have stayed with their original premise of no leveling at all, e.g. make the game all about skill, not gear or level stats.

It does not make the leveling worthless, instead of simply adding you power by default, leveling up opens you up more options and possibilities to customize your play style by unlocking more traits and more skills, it’s simple as that. The level is just an indicator how many traits you have at your disposal, demanding you must be stronger by default because you simply have a higher number is incredibly selfish and ignorant of how good and fair games actually work. I’m aware you got used to how things work in other MMOs, but that doesn’t mean that THAT is the right way to make it so. They did stay with their original concept that its all about skill, how can you be so blind to not see that? That’s why you downscale, because levels DON’T MATTER at all, you should ignore them, it’s all about skill. The point of the game isn’t to level up, it’s to play the game, why are you so stuck on thinking that everything revolves around this one silly number?

Then why do you get more health and armour when you level? If it was just about skills and traits then these two attributes should stay put. I just don’t understand the point you’re trying to make, maybe I’m stupid, done too many years playing old fashioned rpg’s in the 80’s and 90’s. I don’t want to 1 hit things in a low level area, never have, what I’m against is me, as a level 30+ toon being 1 hit in a level 5 area to a Champ i didn’t even aggro (happens to me all the time, and yes I have the appropriate gear etc, not that it matters because it’s down levelled…).

Nerf the weapons by all means so we can’t ruin it for you by killing things fast because I don’t want to, but why nerf my armour and my health by so much so I feel as though I can’t survive when I explore? Of course this is all self imposed because when I PvE I delete dead toons immediately and many have said I’m silly for doing so but its the way I play all my rpg’s. I can now see why Anet don’t have hardcore servers, it is impossible to do unless you craft to 80 or avoid boss/champion events etc. The developers even said ‘we wan’t death to be an experience’, maybe they wan’t you to die often?

I’ve said all I can on this subject and we’re getting nowhere, time for WvW where the down levelling is absent.

I’ll stick to Path of Exile for my hardcore rpg gaming for the time being, sigh…

If you’re playing GW2 for a hardcore experience then you’re playing the wrong game. Go play Dark Souls or Wizardry Online, WO has permadeath so I’m sure you’ll like it, its free to play and it came out a week or two ago, no reason not to check it out.

Doomguard.5094:

If you’re playing GW2 for a hardcore experience then you’re playing the wrong game. Go play Dark Souls or Wizardry Online, WO has permadeath so I’m sure you’ll like it, its free to play and it came out a week or two ago, no reason not to check it out.

Heh, I’m sorry, but Guild Wars 1 and 2 are made for casual and hardcore players alike.

Just the other day, I logged onto my Mesmer in GW1 and typed /age.

Today, I logged onto my Mesmer in GW2 and typed /age.

The results?

GW1:
Mesmer 770 hours over the past 15 months.
Account 880 hours over the past 77 months.

GW2:
Mesmer 725 hours over the past 4 months.
Account 886 hours over the past 5 months

Just a note, I played GW1 casually until the end. Additionally, there were many little achievements that could take up a ton of time.

You see all those people with the title God Walking Amongst Mere Mortals? That means they’ve typically spent 2000 hours in GW1 at LEAST.

You see all those people with the title Champion of the Gods? That means they’ve also typically spent those 2000 hours in GW1 doing something else.

Arenanet screwed up by making Legendaries too easy to get. If anything, I want Hard Mode and some form of Vanquishing to be re-added and possibly a Hard Downscaling where you, at level 80, downscale and Exotic Gear turns into the equivalent of White or Blue gear at that level. I enjoy a challenge and I have spent countless hours in low level zones.

Oh, Queensdale, how I love you for your Pre-searing feel.

EDIT:

And yes, I have tried Wizardry Online (too poor to afford Dark Souls. I’ll probably save up for DS2 when it comes out). The system was nice, but it was too punishing in terms of no regen at all. If you didn’t know what you were doing, you were somewhat forced to play a Priest, which I don’t mind being forced into that corner. The system was definitely fun and a breath of fresh air, but the main thing that put me off was the slow combat system.

After playing GW2, I just can’t stand being forced to stand still for everything and Wizardry Online does a TERRIBLE job of that. You use a skill, and you use it where you stand. If you’re not in range or barely out of range, sucks to be you, you’re now going to get hit. Additionally, finding whether or not something is in range is a pain. Mix the minimum mobility with a system that includes a dodge and you just get a headache of adjusting your position while trying to avoid damage.