Guild Wars 2

Since LFG is full of people “selling” access to the last boss of dungeons, so players can get the dungeon chest with its respective tokens without having to fight a single boss (they just need to be in the party when the boss dies), then either:

a) Change the dungeon reward mechanics so that players who didn’t actually kill the bosses don’t get the rewards, or

b) Allow players to trade dungeon tokens with each other directly (this is effectively what’s already happening – players pay to join a party, the party finishes the last boss, and the buyer get the tokens in exchange for the joining fee).

The current situation is just hypocritical.

You forgot:

c) Allow players to get an achievement, they can’t get on their own (guild or random players suck or lack of skill) – like the infamous and often sold Arah p4. Or do you really think, people are paying so much more gold just for tokens?

Even if I don’t like pathsellers: If you’d make tokens tradable, likely consequences are:

1. People, who don’t want to or can’t pay a path are less motivated to try it on their own.

2. Everyone can get armour/weapons from dungeons easily he had never seen, ‘cause the price for special tokens will go down. So there’s even less need to play together with other players (in a MMO!).

I don’t think it’s that bad with path selling, even if I’m against it, because for every armour (Zerker or tanky stats, so on) there is an easy dungeon like CoF or ToA, that are easy for noobs too or often done with them.

I do think it would be reasonable to have some kind of reduced rewards for people who play only a small part of a dungeon path. I thought that’s what the bags of wondrous goods were supposed to do, but they’re such a small fraction of the total reward that they hardly matter.

illo.5106:

You forgot:

The “rewards” mentioned in (a) include the the achievements (and there’s already a thread about that in the “dungeons” sub-forum).

Either Arena Net wants those things to be sellable or not. If they don’t, they can easily fix the dungeons to give the tokens (and achievements) only to players who are actually present at (and participate in) every boss fight. The game already has mechanisms to check that.

For a company with such a history of knee-jerk responses to “exploits”, they don’t seem to care much about this one, so I can only assume that they’re okay with players selling dungeon tokens and achievements, in which case they should just make those available at the trading post, or even at the gem store.

You can already get any dungeon’s tokens for gold (and you can always get gold for gems); the trading is just happening outside the trading post (through the LFG system), so the current state of affairs is hypocritical on Arena Net’s part.

P.S. – Yes, people are paying gold for the tokens, because they’re the only way to get Arah (or any other dungeon’s) gear. The title “Dungeon Master” is also absolutely worthless these days (most people who “wear” it simply bought it), but that only requires one run of each path. The dungeon gear requires multiple runs, and keeps people paying for quick tokens (announce “buying last boss in dungeon X” in LFG and some group kicks one of its members just before the last boss, invites that buyer, and he gets tokens in seconds, without having to kill anything in the dungeon).

I’d never heard of this before… but seriously, who’s going to pay to finish a dungeon, takes half the reward out of what you got. The armor is more of an achievement than anything else, displaying that you did that dungeon enough times to earn a trophy.
Often times when your doing a dungeon and someone decides to ditch the party when things get rough, it can be hard to get another person to join even when you advertise your party.
If rewards were lowered for people joining later, I can’t imagine anyone wanting to join a party later in the dungeon, and the party would have to either leave and restart or beg friends or guild members to help them. I’ve already begged guildies to join a dying party in the boss room. Lowering rewards seems like just putting a party mid dungeon short a few members on the chopping block.
Selling the tokens in the market seems like both taking away the achievements from dungeons and adding a gold farming exploit to the game. I expect there’d be more people running dungeons, but completely for the wrong reason.

Just report dungeon sellers and punish them since 90% Use exploits to keep the last bosses on 1%
Since I have seen the : Selling path 2 post: boss on 1% hp For 30mins- with only one player in it.
how can he keep a boss that becomes invulnerable, and heals from the oozes he emerges out when hit for 30mins on 1% hp.
If he/she aren’t using an exploit?

Depths.4051:

I’d never heard of this before… but seriously, who’s going to pay to finish a dungeon, takes half the reward out of what you got. The armor is more of an achievement than anything else, displaying that you did that dungeon enough times to earn a trophy.

Because the majority only wants to easymode? No matter what achievement… “I want to have it, but do as hardly anything for it.”

There are no dungeon tokens to trade, though. Not since they added the Wallet. That would be kinda like asking to make Karma tradeable. Or laurels.

And even if they somehow managed to do that, the results would be catastrophic. All exotic gear, except the ones with the special skins, would be worthless.

If your problem is with people selling dungeons, the right answer would be to make it impossible, rather than impractical.

If you add a check for every boss you stop people from replacing members if someone has to leave. You also stop people from being to swap characters. You basically ruin the dungeon experience for everyone just because you are hellbent on stopping something which anet have said is perfectly fine.

Just because you dont agree with it doesnt mean you have a right to stop it. Some people dont have the time to run/learn arah but they want the tokens. They have excess money so they should be able to spend it however they please. It doesnt effect you. The only effect is the amount of selling posts on the lfg tool. But fyi this can be fixed if anet simply fix the kittening lupi skip properly and the underwater exploit…. Even with loads of selling posts you can still find groups for arah. Just post your own or keep refreshing.

Depths.4051:

who’s going to pay to finish a dungeon, takes half the reward out of what you got.

A quick look into LFG will provide the answer: quite a lot of people.

Basically, it lets you get the final dungeon chest plus the daily path bonus chest (that’s a total of 60 tokens, you only miss the 3 you would get from each boss) in seconds, without any effort.

Depths.4051:

The armor is more of an achievement than anything else, displaying that you did that dungeon enough times to earn a trophy.

Maybe it was supposed to be, but it isn’t (see above, you can buy 60 tokens per path, every day – in fact, you can even buy more, but you won’t get the bonus chest).

Depths.4051:

If rewards were lowered for people joining later, I can’t imagine anyone wanting to join a party later in the dungeon,

By that logic, with the current system, no one would want to do a dungeon from the start.

If the reward is matched to the number and difficulty of the bosses you actually kill, it doesn’t matter when you join, you always get a fair reward.

Depths.4051:

Selling the tokens in the market seems like both taking away the achievements from dungeons

See first post. People are already buying and selling the tokens (and the respective achievements). Arena Net’s dungeon mechanics make it possible (and easy) to do so.

So, either make it impossible for people to get dungeon tokens without moving a finger (by requiring that they actually participate in boss fights to get the tokens), or just let people trade them openly.

The current system is hypocritical and punishes honest players.

Olba.5376:

If your problem is with people selling dungeons, the right answer would be to make it impossible, rather than impractical.

My problem is with Arena Net. When they make a dungeon reward system that is so easy to exploit, people are obviously going to exploit it.

They should either fix the system (by tying rewards to what players actually do, not just to the fact that they’re in the party when the final boss dies) or make it clear that they don’t consider selling dungeon rewards an exploit, and make it possible for all players to do it openly.

I think as part of the daily there should be a “teach a newb” task: worth 5 achieve points, 2 below level req people must start and finish with 3 above level reqs who receive a lil more crystalline dust. I mean cmon, who doesnt want more dust.

Account: A quick look into LFG will provide the answer: quite a lot of people.

Just looked, didn’t see, and have never seen. I am not sure about the scale of this problem but I can’t imagine it’s as big as you say. Never even heard of it before coming to this thread. To be fair I came back to the game a couple months ago.

Account: Maybe it was supposed to be, but it isn’t

The armor still seems an achievement to me, I don’t get people asking me if I payed to finish dungeons to get my armor, no one has ever asked that.
If tokens were freely trade-able, never having to even set foot in the dungeon to get them, then it would be nothing but a common piece of armor with nothing special about it aside from it’s aesthetic appeal.
If people are so desperate for the armor that they’ll pay to finish the dungeon, let them, but don’t ruin it for everyone.

Account: By that logic, with the current system, no one would want to do a dungeon from the start

Everyone wants to do the dungeon from the start. A dungeon midway, without 2-3 members can indicate that your having difficulty, and people don’t join and go from the beginning. It can make it difficult to get people midway, because most people seem to be impatient about running dungeons, so joining a struggling party is just not an option for a lot of people.

Account: If the reward is matched to the number and difficulty of the bosses you actually kill, it doesn’t matter when you join, you always get a fair reward.

If this were the case, and they got the daily reward, why would they even bother joining instead of going from the beginning? you can only do that path once a day to get the daily reward, so doing a path midway for lesser rewards would take out a lot of incentive to join parties midway instead of joining a party just about to do the dungeon.

Account: The current system is hypocritical and punishes honest players.

I believe the current system saves a lot of parties from restarting when things go wrong, and a lot of your suggestions might solve this problem I’ve never seen, but cause a lot more problems than it solves. Making the coins available just seems like the worst suggestion though. “It’s not as much of an achievement as it used to be, so just don’t even make it an achievement” is kinda what I hear from that. Punish the honest player, by making their achievement void.

I have no problem with the current system. The token system makes sense, and people selling party slots is not a big deal.

The “selling” is allready taking place like in AC all you see is lvl 80 Only parties, just to get tokens, while those who are NOT lvl 80 get discriminated against. I’ve seen “Story” parties sit for 15-30 minutes waiting for others to join but 80s only parties filling in 5-7 seconds while mid lvl experienced players get shafted too. They might as well put tokens on the market since the lvl 80s are “selling” spots, so why not sell tokens ? It’s all the same different name same game.

Devon.9685:

those who are NOT lvl 80 get discriminated against.

I’m pretty sure that, if someone is simply selling the final chest, they don’t care what level you are. All they want is your gold.

If you’re just talking about the WoW-like “level 80 only” mentality of some low-level / story mode PUGs, that’s a different issue. This thread is specifically about the sale of dungeon tokens for gold.

jsduke.6537:

I have no problem with the current system. The token system makes sense, and people selling party slots is not a big deal.

There’s a difference between selling your services as a guide and simply selling the last chest (so players can get the tokens without participating in the run).

If Arena Net considers that the latter is not an exploit, they should simply allow players to sell the tokens directly (because that’s effectively what’s going on, in a convoluted way, through the LFG system).

Account.9832:

There’s a difference between selling your services as a guide and simply selling the last chest (so players can get the tokens without participating in the run).

If Arena Net considers that the latter is not an exploit, they should simply allow players to sell the tokens directly (because that’s effectively what’s going on, in a convoluted way, through the LFG system).

The “convolution” is what makes it okay. The two things are very different in important ways. It is not a small difference, like you seem to be suggesting. The current token system is fine. Selling party slots is no big deal.

Negotiable chips is stupid. But I would mechanism when a player gets chest only when it is present in at least 50% of boss killing

Sorry, but this is one of the worst suggestions I ever heard.

I don’t think tradeable dungeon tokens is the answer.

Dungeon tokens (and chest rewards) commensurate with effort input (ie: attendance) would be acceptable in my book.

I hate the sellers, I really do.

Dark FQ.1038:

I hate the sellers, I really do.

Why? Hate is a strong word. Are they interfering with you in some way?