Guild Wars 2

So, I love Tyria. I love the dungeons, the lore, and the view. The group dynamic is fantastic, and I couldn’t be more happy with combat. One thing that seems to be missing for me, however, is party statistics. There is a simple form of “great job” in pvp, but where its truly necessary is instances.
When aiming to progress my skills, I rely heavily on how I perform within and compared to other members of a group. So, for myself party statistics or dungeon leaderboards give me the information I need to perfect my build.

Here’s and example: I’m trying to perfect my build to effectively support players in my party, while maintaining sufficient damage output, but I can’t seem to tell where I’m lacking. I play a dungeon and in the leaderboards I see my name. Next to my name, I see heals: 120,537 HP overall. I then see damage: 452,794. Above my name though, I see party member x. Next to party member x’s name is damage: 1,037,946, heals: 329,736 HP overall. With this information, I also conclude that player x was using a mace, which I find utterly useless. I wonder to myself, “how is that possible?” I search further until I recall that player x was critting nearly 100% of the time, and healing me everytime he/she shouted.

My point is, leaderboards give players the direction they need when balancing their builds. If you want high dps, like player x, lots of heals like player x, but notice player x often died because he/she never dodged, you might adapt player x’s stat combo, trait lines, or weapon, but remember to dodge often.

Currently we are stuck with assuming that because player x dies often we most certainly outperformed them, so there’s nothing to learn from that newb. Not to say that’s always the case, but you get where I’m going with this.

Furthermore, who is more willing to purchase, craft, or earn that odd stat combo exotic that adds just the right amount of power, condition damage, and vitality? The player that knows that’s what they need, or the player that obviously outperformed the condition ranger because he didn’t res me at all, which meant he was a newb.

What I’m trying to say is party leaderboards will provide direction, motivation, and purpose for players. They will recover the “useless” stat combos from the bottom of the junk pile and perhaps balance a fractured economy. It would result in more unique builds, and it would diversify the spread of demand on the market, leading to less likelihood of monopolizing by gathering all the bloods, and selling them for double what you paid.

What do you think?

Jazzeras.9732:

What do you think?

bad idea

Your opinion holds little weight when unsupported.

No, because it’s a tool for elitist kittens, and such things shouldn’t be in the game. Ever. This applies to party wide damage meters, leaderboards (which are the same thing), gear inspection by others, anything at all beyond “class and level.”

So, there you go, supporting Vove – and repeating what comes up every time this has been suggested (does nobody use search?). No.

vove.2768:

Jazzeras.9732:

What do you think?

bad idea

Good idea.

Seriously. I think it is a good idea for exactly the reasons you mentioned. I also always wonder how I do compared to my fellow party members. A statistic would be very useful to improve on myself. Also, a little bit of friendly competition is fun. There is nothing more I can add to this discussion other than I fully agree with you and hope this gets implemented into the game.

Pros:

• More possibilities for personal and teamwide optimisation.
• A way to compare yourself to others – better and more realistic self-evaluation.
• Easy way to determine if you want to play with somebody or not – for both elitists and casuals.
• Better and easier way to spot balance-issues.

Cons:

• You would notice very fast if your guild is friendly or or a bunch of kitten.
• If you are a bad player and have no interest in getting better, you would have trouble to find a decent group/guild.

Those arguments are always the same. There are lots of pros and the only real con – more ways for idiots to flame ppl – can easily be answerd with: If somebody kicks you for low DPS, you probably didn’t want to play with that person in the first place.

Molch.2078:

Pros:

• More possibilities for personal and teamwide optimisation.
• A way to compare yourself to others – better and more realistic self-evaluation.
• Easy way to determine if you want to play with somebody or not – for both elitists and casuals.
• Better and easier way to spot balance-issues.

Cons:

• You would notice very fast if your guild is friendly or or a bunch of kitten.
• If you are a bad player and have no interest in getting better, you would have trouble to find a decent group/guild.

Those arguments are always the same. There are lots of pros and the only real con – more ways for idiots to flame ppl – can easily be answerd with: If somebody kicks you for low DPS, you probably didn’t want to play with that person in the first place.

The thing is, people don’t function in such an idealistic manner.

Your ideal scenario seems to be something like this:
Player A: Oh, my DPS is so low?
Player B: What you using?
Player A links gear
Player B: Well your gear is good, maybe it’s your traits?
Player A lists traits
Player B: OK yeah, you gotta do something about that. Here’s a few good choices…

In reality, it’ll be more like this:
Player B: Hey, you! Your DPS is too low!
Player A: I know! I dunno why, though!
Player A gets kicked out of party

The only reason you should want to not play with someone is if they have personality issues. Mostly the kind that go “kitten you” if you try to teach them about the dungeon or ask them about their gear choices.

Honestly, if your party sees you as a “bad” player, even if you’re willing to improve, they won’t give you the chance. And the makes of a “bad” player isn’t just someone who uses Fine gear when running a dungeon. To a lot of people, it’ll be outright dumb things like “not wearing full berserker gear” or “not having all exotic gear”, or possibly “not running popular weapon here”.

I am not sure if you understood my statement. In your second example, Player B is exactly that type of player who is not worth your time.
And besides, now Player A at least knows that he could do better and could improve.

Olba.5376:

Molch.2078:

Pros:

• More possibilities for personal and teamwide optimisation.
• A way to compare yourself to others – better and more realistic self-evaluation.
• Easy way to determine if you want to play with somebody or not – for both elitists and casuals.
• Better and easier way to spot balance-issues.

Cons:

• You would notice very fast if your guild is friendly or or a bunch of kitten.
• If you are a bad player and have no interest in getting better, you would have trouble to find a decent group/guild.

Those arguments are always the same. There are lots of pros and the only real con – more ways for idiots to flame ppl – can easily be answerd with: If somebody kicks you for low DPS, you probably didn’t want to play with that person in the first place.

The thing is, people don’t function in such an idealistic manner.

Your ideal scenario seems to be something like this:
Player A: Oh, my DPS is so low?
Player B: What you using?
Player A links gear
Player B: Well your gear is good, maybe it’s your traits?
Player A lists traits
Player B: OK yeah, you gotta do something about that. Here’s a few good choices…

In reality, it’ll be more like this:
Player B: Hey, you! Your DPS is too low!
Player A: I know! I dunno why, though!
Player A gets kicked out of party

The only reason you should want to not play with someone is if they have personality issues. Mostly the kind that go “kitten you” if you try to teach them about the dungeon or ask them about their gear choices.

Honestly, if your party sees you as a “bad” player, even if you’re willing to improve, they won’t give you the chance. And the makes of a “bad” player isn’t just someone who uses Fine gear when running a dungeon. To a lot of people, it’ll be outright dumb things like “not wearing full berserker gear” or “not having all exotic gear”, or possibly “not running popular weapon here”.

Nicer summary of what I said.

It is bad idea since GW2 is a game made for fun, not a rat race like in WoW for example where the border between good players and bad players is very thick.

If you are in a dungeon and you are good player you see right away who is slacking and who is not and if someone plays bad he is either aware of it or plays for fun which in both cases makes it completely irrelevant for the rest of the team (or you are so pro you have problem with that and you insult them leaving the party immediately after).

If you are bad and want to improve it you have to analyze your traits and item build thinking what might be the problem. There is no one ultimate guide everyone should follow since you can adapt the build for your need and still do well overall.

If you don’t play for fun and you are super imba gosu hardcore leet gw2 isn’t just the game for you, one of the simplest reasons why is the lack of gear progression.

My advice to you is keep on improving till you reach the satisfactory point and if you do super well keep helping others. I get asked very often about my warrior’s shouting build and I always help the person interested. Damage meters won’t do nothing good to this game.

Actually i think in reality it’ll be more like this:
Player B: Hey, YOU kitten*NG NOOB! Your DPS is F*&@ LOW!!!
DO YOU EVEN KNOW HOW TO PLAY??
Player A: Well, its not like your DPS any higher either!!!
Player A gets kicked out of party
Player B: NOBODY QUESTIONS ME!!!! NOBODY DO YOU ALL HEAR ME?? NOW LINK ME ALL YOUR GEAR OR I KICK EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Basically what you are suggesting is a DPS meter.
This is partly a reason how it makes a mmo community very toxic.

Rift was an MMO that i used to enjoy that didn’t had such a meter at first,
then some joker went and created a dps meter. And guess what? Overnight,
the community immediately became very toxic. And no, it is not because
i’m doing bad dps, i do ok actually tbh.

Voted down. I hope Anet never does this.

Perhaps party statistics may implement an exclusion from elitest groups. Who’s to say I, The learning player, wanted to play with these elitests anyway. I think what you’re seeing is that people are categorizing themselves compared to other players regardless of this “DPS Meter”. I join a group for COF and immediately am asked to link my “Zerker” gear. What do I do, leave the group. Furthermore, how is a group supposed to “Kitten” you, when your party stats don’t show until after the instance anyway?

While your concern is relevant, it is ultimately inevitable. Imagine you removed every possible factor that one player could use to exclude another due to insufficient skill. Now what’s left? The same character model, with the same weapon, doing the same skills at the same time. Sounds more like a motion picture to me, because the only way to eliminate this sub-elitest bias is to remove player control and individuality all together.

Perhaps this tool can be used for unfavorable courses of action, but it may also be used for support. Just like chat. Should that be removed as well?

It gets voted down because every single game that has the feature turns into a kitten-fest about the fastest, most powerful meta-build, and become unpleasant to play.

GW1 went 7 years without this feature, GW2 doesn’t need it either.

I would love to see this implemented.
The only players who are against this, are the ones who do not know how to play in a team, are poorly geared and.or do not know the mechanics of the game, thus are afraid others might know how bad they are.
I do not see any other reason for NOT wanting this kind of feature.
Armor, upgrades to armor and such are easily obtained by 90% of player base.
The rest is up to the skill and dedication of the player.

I want to know if I am valuable to the party or not.

If others just want to tag along and get some loot and coins, by all means do that with their friends or guilds.

It is not a matter if not being able to be fairly decent as DPS, heal or tanking but a matter of not wanting to give your best.

Elitist? What is bad about it?
Many of us play to be as good as we can be.
If some of you want to slack and just…hit auto attack and than complain about not being so well looked upon by the party, please remain at dynamic events on low level areas or, give your best to be decent DPS, heal or tank.

Bad idea, see DPS meters discussion.

Some people need to learn that you cannot always be 1st in everything, even if the current trend is that everyone is equal.

I think there are better ways to improve your gameplay, like reading guides and suggestions from other players, testing them yourself and applying the techniques through practice.

I wouldn’t be in favour of party statistics, not because I am worried in any way that my “DPS is too low”, but in my opinion from past experience player statistics breeds selfish people more interested in chasing numbers rather than making decisions that are more beneficial in a group situation.

e.g.

Player A goes down.

Player B is in the best position to rez player A.

Player B decides to ignore player A because player A has nearly caught up with Player B’s DPS output.

Ah well, let Player C, D or E get him. They’ll be losing out on DPS too whilst they rez him.

The topic is “party statistics” not DPS metter. Cmon folks, learn to read.

I was specifically talking about people that chase DPS, which is a statistic. Which is likely to be the one people are most concerned with in a game that lacks a Holy Trinity.

I struggle to see how party statistics could keep track of who is applying what buffs, who is using the right skills at the right time, laying and using combo fields to their best advantage.

I think if such a thing existed it should show everything that only you did in contribution to the party in a percentage format only after the dungeon is completed.

You compared to rest of parties
30% conditions removed
10% party healed
8% boons applied to party
60% damage done
2% conditions dmg
1 time downed
1 time defeated
13% damage taken
59% party revives
Ect

^ that way it is only a tool that you can use to improve yourself into what you want to do.

Henge.3907:

I think if such a thing existed it should show everything that only you did in contribution to the party in a percentage format only after the dungeon is completed.

You compared to rest of parties
30% conditions removed
10% party healed
8% boons applied to party
60% damage done
2% conditions dmg
1 time downed
1 time defeated
13% damage taken
59% party revives
Ect

I think thats a bad idea. I would use this tool to optimize my playstyle, but how can I determine which of my two builds is better, if the result depends on my teammates?

Why wouldn’t the results depend on teammates? Team support is what its all about isn’t it? Without others to compare the results to there isn’t a point and you’re left with the same info you have in your combat log. The percentage would be how much you co tributed for the team. If you run multiple dungeons you’ll see patterns of if you’re higher in certain areas than others.

What the system I proposed does is give you your info without the ability for others to see the results. That way people can’t go “that guys DPS sucks, kick him!” I suppose it could grade you on a total percentage of contribution and have that as a total running score?

The scores listed are your percentages in the group. Meaning that you were doing 60% of the entire parties damage.

To be honest, I’m one of those who always sees this as becoming a tool for elitists.

BUT! If it somehow tracks everything you do and gives credit for it, I’d be all for it since your entire contribution to the party will be noted. If you’re kiting a boss while the rest of the team pounds on him, you should somehow get credit. Maybe some damage received per death ratio of some sort or time holding veteran or stronger rank mobs’ aggro, etc.

It seems this would be rather complicated, but if doable I’d be all for it. Simple DPS/Heal/#deaths meters won’t cut it in this game (for me) to be honest.

ExTribble.7108:

To be honest, I’m one of those who always sees this as becoming a tool for elitists.

BUT! If it somehow tracks everything you do and gives credit for it, I’d be all for it since your entire contribution to the party will be noted. If you’re kiting a boss while the rest of the team pounds on him, you should somehow get credit. Maybe some damage received per death ratio of some sort or time holding veteran or stronger rank mobs’ aggro, etc.

It seems this would be rather complicated, but if doable I’d be all for it. Simple DPS/Heal/#deaths meters won’t cut it in this game (for me) to be honest.

Exactly.