Guild Wars 2

One of my biggest social changes I want is a trading system. This is the only MMO (including Guild Wars 1) I’ve played that doesn’t feature this. Yes, there is a trading post and there is mail (no COD) but it is all very impersonal.

Trading and Bartering was one of my favorite things to do in the past, especially in World of Warcraft. It is a fundamental social interaction in MMO’s and helps even build relationships with people, guilds etc.

Many times I would like to exchange a weapon for another players but can’t, it’s too large of a hassle to try to use the Trading post to sell to a specific person and mailing just isn’t secure. You have to hope the other person is honest and mails there end of the deal back. Even when trying to trade items to a friend or guild member, it is very frustrating using the mail system and having to wait the time delay between mail just to finish the exchange.

Also, trading high-priced items (Such as epic weaponry etc) would be very difficult to sell with just a trading post. From my experience, any high price items in MMO’s 99% of the time sell in person-to-person situations in an exchange of offers, prices and negotiating which you can’t do with a standard trading post. On top of that, without a trade system or even Mail COD, both people have to trust the other to hold their end of the deal and with that amount of money, no person would be willing to risk it.

I feel trading is necessary to building sociable cities (remember Orgrimmar and how many people would gather there?) and progressing in your character. It is a fundamental interaction in person, business, and gaming that I am shocked is left out. Especially with the original game having this feature.

What is missing without Person-To-Person Trading:

1. The ability to safety exchange items or gear with other players (not including Gold)

2. The ability to negotiate & deal with high-priced rare items that typically will not sell on Trading Posts. If you can, it is a very high risk that one party may scam and not hold up the end of their deal using the mail system

3. The ability to use your professions to help other players in exchange for items or gold. You’ve learned and can perform a service, why can’t people benefit and earn money from it?

To be clear: I do not want this to replace the mail system and/or Trading post. I would like this in addition to both these features as they are great but person-to-person Trading is necessary for active sociable cities.

I can agree with this idea. It eliminates the entire trust trade scams within the guild wars franchise which would be a definite plus.

Your many references to World of Warcraft, your experiences in that game and how you want GW2 to be like that game bother me.

This is not WoW.

Why are you saying mailing isn’t secure? How can it not be secure? You mail an item to someone and they receive it. If you’re saying it isn’t secure because you might get ripped off, that is part of the whole point of no peer to peer transactions.

I think no player to player trading is awesome. It isn’t necessary, cuts down on scammers. Cuts down on GM’s having to become involved in scamming complaints. And person to person trading just increases botting and gold selling.

With just the mail system and the TP, Anet can get a very clear picture of what the market is doing, who is doing it and what they are doing it with. With peer to peer, that becomes not so cut and dry.

I don’t know what server you’re on, but LA on my server is very sociable without using or needing peer to peer transfers. If you’re not part of an active guild, being involved, doing things together, having peer to peer transfers is not going to add “fundamental social interaction”.

I see no complaints, no one talking about it, no one worrying about it. Nary a peep.

Let the Dev’s spend their time and money on actual content instead of stuff that isn’t needed please.

No the whole reason is to stop scams, sure I hate the fact that every time I want to sell something, I have to have money to get my money. In that sense, I wish if I am selling to a buy order that a listing fee is not needed, as duh you are not listing anything.

But one of the main reasons they have set it up this way is to eliminate scamming, which btw was stupid kitten overdone in gw1.
Another thing I am glad for is that the interaction I used to have force myself though just to sell 1 item is gone. No more dealing with the market players begging me to reduce my already rock bottom low price, so they can resell the item at the full market value. I spent all day trying to sell 1 great item and never finding a buyer…I wanted to play the game not stand around selling my items.
Then another thing, I do not miss the screen filled to the brim with constant scrolling WTB & WTS messages. Yes I realize that everyone got together in one area of the game to sell the stuff and you could turn off trade chat, still did not stop the people who would spam regular chat as well.

If the mail system had a COD feature all that old hassle would come back to the game, because people would try to break away from the TP and what Anet has done a good job of preventing from happening in this game. Other than the price gouge from a double tax at the TP. I want it to pretty much stay the way they set it up.

Halanna.3927:

Your many references to World of Warcraft, your experiences in that game and how you want GW2 to be like that game bother me.

This is not WoW.

Why are you saying mailing isn’t secure? How can it not be secure? You mail an item to someone and they receive it. If you’re saying it isn’t secure because you might get ripped off, that is part of the whole point of no peer to peer transactions.

I think no player to player trading is awesome. It isn’t necessary, cuts down on scammers. Cuts down on GM’s having to become involved in scamming complaints. And person to person trading just increases botting and gold selling.

With just the mail system and the TP, Anet can get a very clear picture of what the market is doing, who is doing it and what they are doing it with. With peer to peer, that becomes not so cut and dry.

I don’t know what server you’re on, but LA on my server is very sociable without using or needing peer to peer transfers. If you’re not part of an active guild, being involved, doing things together, having peer to peer transfers is not going to add “fundamental social interaction”.

I see no complaints, no one talking about it, no one worrying about it. Nary a peep.

Let the Dev’s spend their time and money on actual content instead of stuff that isn’t needed please.

I reference WoW because it is easy for people to relate too. I do not even like WoW, but there trading and commerce system is the best I’ve ever seen in a game and I’ve studied economics. The cities really aren’t as lively as games with solid market bases, they just aren’t. On top of that, the mail system works as in, it’s not glitchy or bugged. But if it comes down to trying to make a deal with someone, it’s completely trust based and you’re idea of cutting down on scams is actually heightened because it’s a complete trust system.

If there was a COD mail option even the trade system wouldn’t be necessary, but we don’t even have that.

Also, removing peer-to-peer trading doesn’t reduce gold sellers, which is apparent and the insane amount there is in GW2 (more than I’ve ever seen in WoW). They would just mail the gold if someone purchased some rather than trade, that really doesn’t solve anything.

I’ll have to say ‘Nay’.

A trading system was excluded to remove the nightmare that is market-spamming.

• “B> this”, “S>that”, that stuff would make map chat in Lion’s Arch unbearable.

… and help make it easier to keep the economy under control.
Negotiation can often cause people to make choices they regret. The trading post minimizes that by making the exchange anonymous and keeping it strictly about the numbers.

Sam Magicman.1395:

I can agree with this idea. It eliminates the entire trust trade scams within the guild wars franchise which would be a definite plus.

That could easily be done with a CoD feature for the mail.

They could even make it into an in-game thing and say “The Black Lion Trading Post has become Tyria’s main postal service”.

DreamOfACure.4382:

I’ll have to say ‘Nay’.

A trading system was excluded to remove the nightmare that is market-spamming.

• “B> this”, “S>that”, that stuff would make map chat in Lion’s Arch unbearable.

… and help make it easier to keep the economy under control.
Negotiation can often cause people to make choices they regret. The trading post minimizes that by making the exchange anonymous and keeping it strictly about the numbers.

Sam Magicman.1395:

I can agree with this idea. It eliminates the entire trust trade scams within the guild wars franchise which would be a definite plus.

That could easily be done with a CoD feature for the mail.

They could even make it into an in-game thing and say “The Black Lion Trading Post has become Tyria’s main postal service”.

I do miss trade systems but I would be satisfied even with just a CoD feature in mail. At least then the option is there and the deal is secure.

MarcusKilgannon.5048:

I do miss trade systems but I would be satisfied even with just a CoD feature in mail. At least then the option is there and the deal is secure.

I forgot to add that the point of my idea was that the Black Lion Trading Post would still be taking a % of your revenue as a fee for the service.

The thing is if u try to sell something, the mailing is too insecure cos u will never know if the other person will send u the money or item, and the TP stole part of ur profit(15% I think) so if u sell something for 1000g u lose 150g from that. In a trade sistem(person to person) u don’t lose that money.

Not to mention sometimes you want to trade one item to ANOTHER item with someone, for this the TP is not even and option so instead we have the mail which have no guarantee that the other person sends you his item… and seriously peer-to-peer trading being insecure? a proper built system where first both parts have to lock in their trade and after that they both have to accept, and if someone changes something on his side before both are locked they automatically get unlocked, will never get more secure…

DreamOfACure.4382:

MarcusKilgannon.5048:

I do miss trade systems but I would be satisfied even with just a CoD feature in mail. At least then the option is there and the deal is secure.

I forgot to add that the point of my idea was that the Black Lion Trading Post would still be taking a % of your revenue as a fee for the service.

I am completely on-board with that idea for COD mail.

GummiBear.2756:

Not to mention sometimes you want to trade one item to ANOTHER item with someone, for this the TP is not even and option so instead we have the mail which have no guarantee that the other person sends you his item… and seriously peer-to-peer trading being insecure? a proper built system where first both parts have to lock in their trade and after that they both have to accept, and if someone changes something on his side before both are locked they automatically get unlocked, will never get more secure…

Exactly, it’s very hindering if you just want to exchange items with someone. It’s nearly impossible without having a wide open area for the other person to potentially scam you. If it’s in a trade system, unless you are being tricked into buying something worth less than it is (which, get use to it, it happens in every game) you are guaranteed the item the other person is trading.

I personally think it is a good thing to not have a trade system.

What a trade system gains you:
- A way to directly trade with someone an not worry about getting scammed

Why I think that point is moot:
- Anyone I would be selling an item to at a steep discount would only be friends or guildies, which I trust in the mail system. If a guildy scams me, then we got a way to filter out guild trash at only the cost of an item or two. The ONLY exception I can think of to this is an item-for-item trade with a stranger, and I see no reason why TP can’t be the medium as each of you can place a buy order and any uneven trade would also be solved there preventing further scamming of ignorant players of item value.

What having trades would cost us:
- Constant spam for trades
- New avenues for scamming new players
- New avenues for hacks/cheats (almost every dupe method in MMOs involve the trade system)
- Delays in PUG dungeons as players waste time bartering/begging over the item someone just looted.

Would I complain about a trade system being added? No, as I would indeed use it occasionally (such as to circumvent the stupid mail spam limit. Why the heck is it not at least 4 or 5 so someone can supply a dungeon run?), and I could really care less about spam as I ignore all but guild chat 90% of the time… but we really are better off as is.

Add C.O.D. (gold on delivery) to mail system. Problem solved.

Zahld.4956:

Add C.O.D. (gold on delivery) to mail system. Problem solved.

que griefing for supposed “free” trades and offering someone something with a ridiculous fee. oh, ya, I’ll give you those consumables if you can pay 500g. thanks for clearing up the space in my inventory, sucker!

roachsrealm.9284:

Zahld.4956:

Add C.O.D. (gold on delivery) to mail system. Problem solved.

que griefing for supposed “free” trades and offering someone something with a ridiculous fee. oh, ya, I’ll give you those consumables if you can pay 500g. thanks for clearing up the space in my inventory, sucker!

But apparently that’s what people want. They want direct trading so they can skip the trading post and thus not have to compete in the open market, ideally screwing over other players in order to make some gold. The scamming is this price everyone else will have to pay.

CureForLiving.5360:

roachsrealm.9284:

Zahld.4956:

Add C.O.D. (gold on delivery) to mail system. Problem solved.

que griefing for supposed “free” trades and offering someone something with a ridiculous fee. oh, ya, I’ll give you those consumables if you can pay 500g. thanks for clearing up the space in my inventory, sucker!

But apparently that’s what people want. They want direct trading so they can skip the trading post and thus not have to compete in the open market, ideally screwing over other players in order to make some gold. The scamming is this price everyone else will have to pay.

I don’t want scamming but there should be trading among people as well. We’re getting “screwed” over trying to fairly exchange items with players and having no trust worthy way of doing so.

I’m against direct trading, but COD mails could be quite useful, when you want to trade with specific someone, that you don’t yet know enough to trust.
Add a cost of COD bigger than TP, for example 20%, so it won’t create black market, and it will have it’s specific use.

I can agree that trading is a norm when it comes to MMO games but I find one great reason not to introduce trading. Without trading we are not subject to endless in game chatter about what someone is selling. Yes they can do the spam now and some do but the reason you do not see it every second of the day since no one wants to take a chance and trade and get scammed. A in game trading system would prevent the scams. I for one would rather keep working with friends and the market instead of having a full ignore list because of chat channel selling spam.

There are like 10.000 + orders for item X in TP. How do you think the chat will be if all of them will say WTB? Oh and there are hundreds of item types.
Introducing player-to player trading will benefit only the guild mates and friends. Very few people will spend time to look for a buyer/seller instead of using the TP.
This feature will not improve anything to the game
Besides, the TP is available everywhere, how about he WTB/WTS channel? Will it be available for the whole server? Or all servers?

I don’t get how sending a mail is any less personal than a trade window. What is so ‘personal’ about trading anyways.

Wow some people are thick, a person to person trading system has nothing to do with mail. With the system we have now, if you want to trade item for item with someone (dawn for dusk or powerful venom for powerful blood for example) your taking a huge risk. All you need is a simple system seen in many other mmos:

Right click, trade, a window pops up with slots tied to each player, each player shows or places item in slot, both players must accept trade indevidualy for trade to finish. If one player hasnt agreed to that trade, that player cancels and items are put back in their respective inventory.

Nothing to do with mail, TP or gold spam, its on the personal level similar to right clicking and inspecting players or any other options your used to.

C.O.D. doesnt solve all problems, unless your able to demand specific items and not just cash, which would be unlikely.

Zahld.4956:

Add C.O.D. (gold on delivery) to mail system. Problem solved.

i’d LOVE to see this feature added. as it is, the mail system IS used for scams, and i don’t care what you try to do to eliminate people “selling in chat,” it’s gonna happen. give us this simple option, and it’s done.

Edenwolf.6328:

Wow some people are thick, a person to person trading system has nothing to do with mail. With the system we have now, if you want to trade item for item with someone (dawn for dusk or powerful venom for powerful blood for example) your taking a huge risk. All you need is a simple system seen in many other mmos:

Right click, trade, a window pops up with slots tied to each player, each player shows or places item in slot, both players must accept trade indevidualy for trade to finish. If one player hasnt agreed to that trade, that player cancels and items are put back in their respective inventory.

Nothing to do with mail, TP or gold spam, its on the personal level similar to right clicking and inspecting players or any other options your used to.

C.O.D. doesnt solve all problems, unless your able to demand specific items and not just cash, which would be unlikely.

Exactly, this is exactly why is it necessary. I’m not sure why it’s difficult to express this.

And let me ask everyone mentioning the WTB & WTS spams. If you have ever played a MMO with a trade system (almost all) but WoW in particular, did you ever see once people spamming “WTS Linen Cloth” etc. No, the basic item, mats etc are all placed on the auction house or Trading Post in our case and are set to sell when people order them.

What you did see spammed was the unique, very rare or very costly items which will NOT sell in an auction house/trading post setting or at least not quickly. You need to physically deal with the person to get an actual sale. Countless times I’ve sold items worth a lot I will list on the TP at an obnoxious price to make it aware I have one (and send in city market chat) and then be approached by a person interested. Many times it took 5-10 people before a deal was actually set in stone so I could sell the item.

If you look at the highest priced items on the trading post now, do you ever think they will sell at those costs? I see the price, am full aware I can’t negotiate or even contact the seller and ignore them all. No one I’ve seen ever used the trading system for anything other than rare large price items.

Also, this game has professions! If someone wants you to use your profession to make them something of use, you can’t do so in any good faith. Say you make the item and you’re going to charge them. Well, either you mail it and hope the other person mails the money (which there’s a good chance they may not – there’s no penalty) or you would have to post on the Trading Post, at the decided cost, hope the other player actually purchases it and then are forced to collect your money at the TP.

The Trading Post now is excellent, it’s a great system and I enjoy using it. However! If you ever need to use your profession for profit, trade high priced-rare items or even a mutual exchange of items, you are out of luck. The trading post or mail system cannot fulfill this and you are left with pure trust deals that open scamming up even more than a locking binding system.

I’ll pass. I think the trading system is perfect with just TP. If you really need to do a player-player trade, mail the item. Sure, you’re not guaranteed not to get scammed, but player-player trading just allows more room for scamming and spamming anyway. If you need to do a player-player trade, it should be with someone you can trust anyway.

This is one thing they said they will never put into the game. Causes too many problems.

Scams
Gold Sellers
etc
etc

Krosslite.1950:

This is one thing they said they will never put into the game. Causes too many problems.

Scams
Gold Sellers
etc
etc

Why do so many people keep using gold sellers as the reason for it not to be added. I don’t know if you noticed, but I have never seen gold spammers as badly in a MMO as in guild wars. It’s on the forums, in-game mail, in chat logs, in whispers. Absolutely everything is flooded with gold sellers.

adding COD system would still result in massive WTS/WTB spam … no thanks.

We need one or the other; a C.O.D. or Trade system. The curreng Mail system is inadequate. C.O.D. would be okay, a Trade system would be better. Trade spam would be given its own channel and, to be honest, I like seeing the spam. It makes a city seem more alive.

As long as a player-to-player trading will not have a “listing” fee, it will not be added to the game because most of high buyers/ sellers will not use the TP anymore.
So, i don’t see this implemented as you guys request.

There’s a number of issues with Player-to-Player trading.

Firstly, since we have the Black Lion Trade Post, this mail-trade business would have to have the same 15% tax. Otherwise it would end up in a situation where people would sell most of their stuff at via mail. And the next step from that is people asking for afk-shops. Which, as you might see, would be no different from the Black Lion Trade Post, except that it would have your name attached to it.

Secondly, since we can pick up mail from anywhere, but the goods on the Black Lion Trade Post are limited to the NPCs, we are faced with a choice. Either we make it so that all non-quest and non-Gem Shop mail can only be picked up at some NPC, or we put in an additional tax on trades via mail.

Thirdly, we have to look at who is asking for this feature. On one hand, we have the people who want to sell expensive goods but cannot or will not do it because of the tax. Well, why should ANet enable them to participate in tax evasion? Makes no sense.

On the other, we have people who want to trade their goods with someone they know, but don’t quite trust yet. That’s again a very shady crowd of people. Just look at it, for real! These are people who are supposedly willing to take a monetary loss for someone they don’t know but at the same time they do not trust this person. That’s kittened up in the head, if you ask me.

You know what else could fix this thing? Re-doing the Trade Post. Instead of the current system, we would add in the sellers’ names and you could voluntarily choose to sell to a specific seller, even if it’s at a higher price. The only downside? Well, it still requires an NPC. And considering that they have a Gem Store item for that, I don’t see that changing.

There are several reasons why GW2 should not have peer to peer trading:

• It hurts the global market, by creating a gray market that doesn’t have to follow supply & demand as closely.
• It allows people with more information to exploit individuals with less information.
• It enables a variety of scams, besides the ones that CoD would resolve.

And it isn’t necessary: in GW1, my closest friends were people I met trading. In GW2, my closest non-guild friends are people I met discussing trades. I know many who make a good income from off-market trades and, because they do it so often, neither they nor their customers have to worry (much) about not receiving their goods.

I admit it would be fun to bargain in-game (in character or not), but it won’t benefit the vast majority of players. And most of the financial benefits it extends to the minority would come at the expense of others.