Guild Wars 2

More and more of us are noticing significant declines in drop rates after about 20-30 minutes of farming the same monsters or dynamic event. Magic find gear doesn’t go far enough to alleviate the problem!

I understand the concern with botting, but unless your intent is to drive players toward the trading post, I’m afraid this anti-bot script of yours may be penalizing legitimate players!!

Here’s one anecdote with a starting analysis someone posted on Reddit.

The conclusions haven’t been definitely proven, but it closely lines up with what many of us have been experiencing.

EDIT: Typo.

Nyra.3679:

Was farming up in the northern part of Frostgorge earlier today, starting way off to the northwest in Drakkar Waypoint and slowly making my way east, participating in any events (Quaggan stuff) along the way. I popped my 30m magic find food buff once I arrived, but once I hit roughly ~10min left on the buff, drop rates dramatically decreased. I was barely even seeing gray vendor trash show up, despite having a full runed set of magic find gear.

Frustrated, I left and went to Cursed Shore, hoping for some better luck. I started at Caer Shadowfain, popping my food buff as I arrived, following the main road south and killing/gathering things and doing events (including the very popular one at Shelter’s Gate) along the way. Same story; after about 20 min, drops just dried up. I heard Grenth was up so I made my way across the river, getting nothing from the risen pirates, tar elementals, drakes, and other things along the way. My server failed the event so I didn’t get to see what drops would’ve been like during the ~6 min defense after, but I imagine it wouldn’t have been any good.

My experience is just a small one in the grand scheme of things, but I feel that ANet’s anti-botting measures have gone too far, especially if they can kick in within the duration of a 30m food buff.

Thanks for the anecdote, and yes, your experiences are very much similar to mine. And the last paragraph especially brings up an excellent point. Why the hell did Anet create recipes for 30 minutes of magic find boost if they were going to end up becoming useless after 10-20 minutes?!

Now, before someone replies “It’s to force players to vary their monster kills and allow them enough time to get to different areas and kill different monsters” let me remind you that GW2’s premise is about freedom to choose your style of play. Love PvP and competing with others and hate farming? Organize your guild, get on teamspeak, and win at WvW! Are you a casual player who doesn’t care for getting 400/400 in the smiths and doesn’t mind spending real money on goods? Buy crystals with cash!

This cap on monster kills ends up becoming a pointlessly narrow restriction on a player’s freedom to play the game as he pleases within the reasonable parameters of fairness!

On the one hand, I see a point with limiting or reducing drop rates when someone is farming the same location or event, especially as a means to prevent botting. I understand that keeping game economies in check can be quite difficult in an MMO, and that farming, especially botted farming, contributes fairly heavily to in-game inflation, and it is certainly desirable to keep such problems in check. Nevertheless, I have to agree with the above posters, that 20 minutes before reducing drops to virtually nothing is not acceptable, particularly when Magic Find boosters have a 30 minute duration.

This really does need to be addressed. I know it is meant to stop bots but the time before drops get reduced on avg should be at the very least 200 minutes. I also think it should be a bit more visible as well, like you know how reduced the drops are from that mob type or whatever.

This is basically punishing legit players for the actions of botters. This method just doesn’t work. Want to know who else does this? The MPAA/RIAA.

Although it would be nice to have a mod reply, I’m not demanding or expecting it. I’m more so concerned with having this issue addressed in some way, shape, or form.

I think it’s notable that Diablo 3’s treatment of monster kills deserves some attention for its contrast, differing game dynamics notwithstanding. They have multiple ways for players to build up magic find boosts for killing champ mobs over long periods of times. No penalty system in place to discourage players from playing for long hours—Blizzard actually recognizes that RPGs are grindy and from what we’ve seen in recent patches, are doing overtime actually to accommodate this expectation.

Drake Phoenix.6158:

On the one hand, I see a point with limiting or reducing drop rates when someone is farming the same location or event, especially as a means to prevent botting.

Maybe have a popup asking a simple question whenever a player kills like 50 of the same monster in a short time frame (not counting DEs)?.

Like, what is yellow+blue : green.

Or a simple captcha, I don’t know.

Vyniea.2054:

Drake Phoenix.6158:

On the one hand, I see a point with limiting or reducing drop rates when someone is farming the same location or event, especially as a means to prevent botting.

Maybe have a popup asking a simple question whenever a player kills like 50 of the same monster in a short time frame (not counting DEs)?.

Like, what is yellow+blue : green.

Or a simple captcha, I don’t know.

The problem I have with that sort of an approach is that it causes a direct disconnect/disengagement from the game. Since I personally like to immerse as much as possible into the games I play, I really despise anything that distracts from that engagement. A system like you suggest would be purely distraction from game engagement. Yes, it could possibly work for a while (until botters learn to write bots that automatically answer simple intelligence questions), but the downside would be too high a price to pay in my opinion. It is not an easy problem to address, and most developers simply don’t try, but I’m hoping that ArenaNet can come up with some ideas that are as innovative as some of their game mechanics are.

If GW2 is grindy to the point where people are farming the same mob over and over again in the hopes of acquiring some drop, perhaps anti-bot and anti-farm measures are missing the forest for the trees?

I’ll make a half-exception for the Risen humanoids all apparently being linked for the purposes of anti-botting measures, which is something that’s been hypothesized and is being tested. Setting aside any anti-Manifesto gameplay concerns, you don’t cram three high-level zones full of one class of (extremely irritating) mob (with insane aggro radii) and then punish players for killing tons of them in a short period of time. That’s bad form, plain and simple.

Thanks Jack for recrencing my post on reddit!

I just want to say that while it might upset people i think we all are just curious on how it works and what we can do as players (not robots) in order to prevent us from hitting such limit. I understand that people want to freedom to grind out what they want but if Anet is unwilling to change the bot i would just like, for my own personal farming, to know what i can do to optimize my route.

I hate calling for representative attention but even if I don’t see any sort of feedback for weeks to come, at some point i am sure all players would like to know exactly what measures are in place to stop bots and what humans can do to avoid being mistaken for one.

Pharaoh.2691:

Thanks Jack for recrencing my post on reddit!

I just want to say that while it might upset people i think we all are just curious on how it works and what we can do as players (not robots) in order to prevent us from hitting such limit. I understand that people want to freedom to grind out what they want but if Anet is unwilling to change the bot i would just like, for my own personal farming, to know what i can do to optimize my route.

I hate calling for representative attention but even if I don’t see any sort of feedback for weeks to come, at some point i am sure all players would like to know exactly what measures are in place to stop bots and what humans can do to avoid being mistaken for one.

Agreed. Once Anet gives us a response, then we can decide whether to brandish the pitchforks and oil the torches.

But while a brief explanation of what’s going on in the loot department would go a long way toward easing our minds and keeping the line open, I really hope a solution of some sort is still forthcoming.

Blizzard as an example did a very poor job of keeping customers informed about the security issues. There were numerous threads created in the D3 forums where players detailed their account hackings. Those threads were never responded to and were always promptly deleted by the mods. I remember it was quite a while before Blizzard finally made the announcement that D3 account hackers were likely obtaining passwords to accounts from other forums where victims had been using identical e-mails and passwords.

But it’s not just the poor timing that piqued the community. It was their solutions. Blizzard’s solution was to require that everyone buy an authenticator or download the app onto their smartphone. In other words, post-purchase, Blizzard created an extra hassle for owners who’d paid $59.99 and hadn’t been expecting this. As for the victims? they treated the victims as though they’d hacked their own accounts. They informed victims that they could have one account rollback with no consequence. But if a second rollback were necessary, the account would be banned completely from participating in the real money auction house. I can attest both from personal experience as someone who got hacked pre-authenticator installation and has spoken with many others in the forums that these incidents left an indelible stain on the image of Blizzard we’d held since the days of Warcraft 2 and Starcraft.

I’ve been a loyal customer of Anet for 4 years. I forgave them back in the days of GW1 for not having the means to roll back my account after I got hacked once. But this time, the stakes are higher. We’d really like a prompt response and possibly a workable solution.

I also have to say that in light of all that’s been said, I genuinely hope this relationship remains a lasting one!

i noticed it too. it’s an interesting move of them. they hit botters and non paying customers who have to farm alike. but it’s down right evil of them to fill whole regions with nearly one mob type. and quests… i have to do 4 quests just to pay for the travel…

Moreover, I suspect that it can only be a matter of time before (if it’s not already the case) botters figure out how this stuff works and simply route around it. You probably decrease botting efficiency somewhat, but you only stop the less sophisticated botters with anti-farm code; as long as there’s a remotely efficient way to automate farming, botters are going to do that thing. If you don’t want botting to be a thing, I think you need to hit botters more directly. (It’s possible that less sophisticated botters make up the bulk of the botting population; it’s hard to know as an outsider.)

I think drop caps are great, the encourage you to move around and not sit there farming the same mobs over and over.

Nothing more annoying for a player trying to do a heart task or DE than to find some farmer endlessly killing the same mobs.

I think the reduced drop rates, and bonus XP for monsters who have been alive for longer is a really elegant mechanic Anet put in.

One issue with that, Cameirus is it makes the 30m buff potions you can make for fighting the same type of mob (Grawl Slaying for example) a bit counter-intuitive. Especially since they come in stacks of 5. You’d think the diminishing returns would happen after 2.5 hours so you could at least clear a stack of the potions you made…

+1

Why the hell should I be punished if I want to grind? Anet might say that they want to change the whole aspect of grinding, but this is a silly way to limit your fanbase.

Why should we be punished for the actions of bots? You must think of a better way to limit the damage of botting while not screwing over your fanbase who are actually doing things legitly(which would far outnumber those botting.)

I find it stupid that this mob-cap kicks in well before the end of any magic find boost I use. Frankly, this is an issue that should be looked at in more detial. We all play MMO’s our own way, I choose to want to grind out mobs while others may want to explore. Good for them, but why should I, and others, be punished for how I want to play?

I craft Leatherworking equipment for my guild and as newer players need new gear, I farm specific mobs to get specific items (some item sets of the rarer variety require hours of farming specific items). I too have gotten this drop rate decrease within a certain time limit. I find it silly that they give us 1 hour Magic Find buffs from the store and 30minute Magic Find Food and it all goes to waste in a fraction of the buff time. Not to mention, most of Orr is the same type of monster making any type of farming out of the question since you hit the limit so quickly.

I understand combating bot activity or preventing market flood but please let us prove we’re human or let us use the full limit of our buffs.

Can we get a developer to shed some light on this issue? Is this to stay or is it temporary until further notice?

Edit: Since this is a suggestion forum, I will input a suggestion for this:

Send an in-game mail stating, (to not break immersion) “the Risen have turned players to their side to farm monsters to craft them gear, so we’d like to check if you’re still human (or whatever race) and solve this riddle” and you could reply an answer clearing your account for a day or something along those lines.

The same kind of monsters will appear somewhere else in the area. They’ll give you better drops, and they will also give you bonus exp.

Why would you want to stay in the very same spot killing the same monster, when you could just walk a few steps and kill the same monsters, just somewhere else?

For example Queensdale it’s filled with bandits.
Why would you stay by the Moa ranch, instead moving to the other regions that have bandits?

There’s only two answers to that:
A. Mindless farmer.
B. Bot.
Either case is bad, so there’s no need to cater to them.

/signed

Zloja 80 Warrior
Sorrow Furance

Runescape had it right, random events! E.g. Have a randomly timed event where a ghost pops up and asks you a trivia question, get it wrong you get nothing but carry on as usual, get it right you get some sort of reward, do nothing and you get DC’d and a log sent to Anet.

So many possible options and its really fun. (So long as it doesn’t happen mid event etc.)

Farmers are almost as bad as botters in their effect on the economy so it makes sense to try to avoid the economy problems that other MMOs (and GW1) had with farming. Just play the game for a reasonable time and you get quite enough stuff anyway – too much in my opinion. In addition I reckon that magic find should be heavily nerfed or removed; its a mechanism that increases already high drop rates and devalues everything on the TP.

IMOP itemisation & drops is something that still needs a lot of work.

Sorry if you can’t then get your exotic armor in a couple of days of farming – but what is it that you intend to do in the game once you do get it?

…gee, how about MOVING FROM YOUR FARMING SPOT?

You know, walking around? Hunting other mobs? Not grinding out those same X mobs?

Jeez.

MithranArkanere.8957:

The same kind of monsters will appear somewhere else in the area. They’ll give you better drops, and they will also give you bonus exp.

Why would you want to stay in the very same spot killing the same monster, when you could just walk a few steps and kill the same monsters, just somewhere else?

For example Queensdale it’s filled with bandits.
Why would you stay by the Moa ranch, instead moving to the other regions that have bandits?

There’s only two answers to that:
A. Mindless farmer.
B. Bot.
Either case is bad, so there’s no need to cater to them.

and

…gee, how about MOVING FROM YOUR FARMING SPOT?

You know, walking around? Hunting other mobs? Not grinding out those same X mobs?

Jeez.

I don’t think you understand that this is NOT limited to farming one monster, it is limited to the type of monster.

For example, I farm scales off of Barracudas because the drop rate is much higher than say Krait and Sharks and they are easier to rotate farming around the general area of the lake but then I get limited in drops for some undetermined amount of time so even if I change area I still get junk drops.

Another example; I kill Risen because they are everywhere in Orr yet I’m limited on farm because I had to kill my way to events, waypoints, vistas, and points of interest.

I’m not farming one mob in one spot all day as that is far from efficient. Why should I be punished in drop rate because I want to farm a ton of material for crafting or selling?

edit: quote button appeared

I think the problem you are hitting here is the entire game is designed around people PLAYING the game. General perspective I’ve seen is that static farming is a bad idea.

I’m going to ask you a very interesting question. Have you exhausted your resources? IE people implied botters would merely compensate, that would mean that it would be possible for you too to compensate.

If you really are so dead set on farming for excessive amounts of time then yes, maybe it is ok that you should have to plan out a farming route. IE, Risen for 20>>>move to skales>>>move to krait. Something like that.

Do remember, by putting in these types of subtle mechanics they discourage the static farming behavior. Discouraging that behavior leads to less farming or at least more dynamic farming. This is ultimately healthier for the game in the long run from both a playerbase psychological point of view as well as a farming/economic point of view. This is not a game that can sustain itself on farm like X or Y games that you are used to.

So please, this is new territory. Stop trying to teraform the game to your old expectations. Learn, adapt, and heck you might even decide to farm less and PLAY more. Goodness know it might do you some good. Especially since you are spending hours farming materials that I get via playing the market and simply making drive by’s while otw to other things. I spend a fraction of the time and have more fun to boot. As well as actually contribute to being an active player.

It was the fact Anet was nerfing farming in GW1 in order to deal with bots that eventually drove me away from the game. In the end it’s PvP or farming to buy mats/goods for your toons.

In GW1 botting was so bad at one time as to be overwhelming, but at least all farming was done in instances and players weren’t really impacted by it so much outside of the economy, and even the economy was not that drastically shaped by botting other than to the good side of more available runes and such. I don’t condone botting, I despise it. I do however likewise despise legitimate players suffering anti-bot tactics like drop adjustments.

Deal with the bots, that is the issue. Impacting legitimate players is always the wrong way to go about it.

Ralathar.7236:

I think the problem you are hitting here is the entire game is designed around people PLAYING the game. General perspective I’ve seen is that static farming is a bad idea.

I’m going to ask you a very interesting question. Have you exhausted your resources? IE people implied botters would merely compensate, that would mean that it would be possible for you too to compensate.

If you really are so dead set on farming for excessive amounts of time then yes, maybe it is ok that you should have to plan out a farming route. IE, Risen for 20>>>move to skales>>>move to krait. Something like that.

Do remember, by putting in these types of subtle mechanics they discourage the static farming behavior. Discouraging that behavior leads to less farming or at least more dynamic farming. This is ultimately healthier for the game in the long run from both a playerbase psychological point of view as well as a farming/economic point of view. This is not a game that can sustain itself on farm like X or Y games that you are used to.

So please, this is new territory. Stop trying to teraform the game to your old expectations. Learn, adapt, and heck you might even decide to farm less and PLAY more. Goodness know it might do you some good. Especially since you are spending hours farming materials that I get via playing the market and simply making drive by’s while otw to other things. I spend a fraction of the time and have more fun to boot. As well as actually contribute to being an active player.

I really understand your point and it does not cover exactly what I am talking about. They have gold crafting recipes at 35 that require 15 tier 3 monster drops per piece. Now if I want to craft a set for my guildie that is 15*6 (90) pieces of whatever I need to farm. So I want to get 90 Bloods, so I would have to farm a certain area, no? It’s only a short amount of farming when I get limited so I have to keep waiting to farm it.

So buy the blood? I could, but that would be counter-productive and waste money that I spend it elsewhere (read money sinks).

So buy the gear? Again, counter-productive and what is the point of having crafting in the game? Why do they require a lot of materials? You farm it or buy it from other players. My choice of playstyle is to earn my way for myself and my guild. I want to craft them armor they will like and want. Why should I be punished to play this way even if it is a little old fashioned?

@deal with the bots

There’s really no essential difference from the economy’s point of view between a bot and someone standing there spamming skills. They both negatively impact the economy and other players. So, any measures they take against botting that also effect farmers are very welcome in my opinion.

Also it seems, some players have to be lead to the water and made to drink – playing the game is surely much more enjoyable than standing in some spot (or doing some rote schedule) farming materials all day.

What exactly is it that you farmers want to get out of a game?

Drake Phoenix.6158:

On the one hand, I see a point with limiting or reducing drop rates when someone is farming the same location or event, especially as a means to prevent botting.

Maybe have a popup asking a simple question whenever a player kills like 50 of the same monster in a short time frame (not counting DEs)?.

Like, what is yellow+blue : green.

Or a simple captcha, I don’t know.

I like the idea of a requester perhaps popping up with some simple random question, but not mid screen (like the feckin` Join/Re/Leave queue one does) but top left like the guild invites is

NOT a Captcha though. Some of those are beyond stupid online & in game I`d just Alt F4 the game without a second though.

“What exactly is it that you farmers want to get out of a game?”

I find it kind of… therapeutic. I don’t grind exclusively for hours and hours every day. But I will happily spend an hour or more grinding once or twice a week. I think it comes from the old JRPGs I used to play as a kid, where grinding allowed you to get ahead of the game slightly, would give you some rare drops to make you more powerful, and would level you up and give you access to better skills. It was like a challenge, and felt rewarding.

It’s a shame to hear that this isn’t being encouraged in GW2, even though there are plenty of consumables that suggest it is (food buffs, XP booster). You may not enjoy it, and that’s fine, but quite a lot of players do. Not exclusively, but to complement questing and PVP. Loot drops are fun and addictive – as Diablo proved over a decade ago, and Borderlands is still proving today.

@Maybe have a popup asking a simple question whenever a player kills like 50 of the same monster in a short time frame (not counting DEs)?.

This has to be one of the silliest suggestions I’ve seen – you do appreciate that many people actually play the game as intended, as a virtual world. Popping up dialog boxes every five minutes is just about the worst way of destroying that experience that I can imagine.

Cameirus.8407:

I think drop caps are great, the encourage you to move around and not sit there farming the same mobs over and over.

Nothing more annoying for a player trying to do a heart task or DE than to find some farmer endlessly killing the same mobs.

I think the reduced drop rates, and bonus XP for monsters who have been alive for longer is a really elegant mechanic Anet put in.

Wat? How on Earth can you possibly enjoy being pushed around by a cattle prod to engage in an form of conduct that should be voluntary?

And what’s so annoying about seeing players grind the same DE? What issue do you have with others’ actions as long as what they’re doing isn’t prohibited?

Elegant…how?

Darkstorne.6348:

But I will happily spend an hour or more grinding once or twice a week. I think it comes from the old JRPGs I used to play as a kid, where grinding allowed you to get ahead of the game slightly, would give you some rare drops to make you more powerful, and would level you up and give you access to better skills. It was like a challenge, and felt rewarding.

I believe GW2 went out of their way to state that they did not want to encourage grinding at all.

Now there’s a significant difference between not encouraging & actively discouraging, but I for one am very happy with the idea that the game does not reward grinding or those that do so. Pavlovian treadmills are so last year

Jack.1469:

Cameirus.8407:

I think drop caps are great, the encourage you to move around and not sit there farming the same mobs over and over.

Nothing more annoying for a player trying to do a heart task or DE than to find some farmer endlessly killing the same mobs.

I think the reduced drop rates, and bonus XP for monsters who have been alive for longer is a really elegant mechanic Anet put in.

Having a load of boring farmers who don’t want to play the game, but exploit some cash loop hole is probably as bad as having bots. The game is meant to be cooperative not some opportunity for boring drones to farm digital cash and ignore everything else in the game.

EDIT: Screwed up my reply quote – thoroughly agree with Camierus POV.

roqoco.4053:

@deal with the bots

There’s really no essential difference from the economy’s point of view between a bot and someone standing there spamming skills. They both negatively impact the economy and other players. So, any measures they take against botting that also effect farmers are very welcome in my opinion.

Also it seems, some players have to be lead to the water and made to drink – playing the game is surely much more enjoyable than standing in some spot (or doing some rote schedule) farming materials all day.

What exactly is it that you farmers want to get out of a game?

Not a convincing argument at all, you’re relying on your own subjective interpretation of what MMO’ing should be about.

Newsflash: You shouldn’t outright assume there’s a right way to farm just because it’s how you enjoy doing it.

There are hundreds, perhaps thousands of RPGs and MMO RPGs out there. An overwhelming number of them are grindy. I’m not calling for GW to stick with what’s tried and true per se, but games of both genres have always had many options for farming and obtaining desired items. As far as I can remember, no game company has taken it upon themselves to punish long-haul players who grind the same boss for obvious reasons. The philosophy that there is no one wrong way to play the game has always held true.

Now herein lies the problem. You’re expressing an issue you have with the way the game is played. Your issue is you think the game is meant to be played a specific way. So claiming grinding the same DE over and over is not how the game is meant to be played is like criticizing someone for rewatching the same TV show or movie repeatedly. Here’s the thing: Some don’t mind it at all, and _you _ shouldn’t be having a problem with it.

roqoco.4053:

Farmers are almost as bad as botters in their effect on the economy so it makes sense to try to avoid the economy problems that other MMOs (and GW1) had with farming. Just play the game for a reasonable time and you get quite enough stuff anyway – too much in my opinion. In addition I reckon that magic find should be heavily nerfed or removed; its a mechanism that increases already high drop rates and devalues everything on the TP.

IMOP itemisation & drops is something that still needs a lot of work.

Sorry if you can’t then get your exotic armor in a couple of days of farming – but what is it that you intend to do in the game once you do get it?

Huh? Wow…umm…

Where do I begin? How about I skip to the end which pretty much points out where you’re really coming from?

Your last quote is the most revealing of your true intentions behind making such a questionably supported argument above. Your issue is with people having the time and dedication to spend on getting high level gear within a short amount of time.

Word of advice: If that’s your issue, MMOs are not for you. Nothing wrong with a little envy, but if that’s causing you to have a clouded sense of judgment, you’re playing the wrong game.

roqoco.4053:

Having a load of boring farmers who don’t want to play the game, but exploit some cash loop hole is probably as bad as having bots. The game is meant to be cooperative +not some opportunity for boring drones to farm digital cash and ignore everything else in the game.+

There is no cash “loophole” and other than your obvious bias against farmers, your first argument holds no water.

I’m going to need a citation for the second portion. Without a citation, I’m going to assume you’re referring to Anet’s stated desire to keep the game friendly to casual players.

Jack.1469:

you’re relying on your own subjective interpretation of what MMO’ing should be about.

Jack.1469:

Word of advice: If that’s your issue, MMOs are not for you. You’re playing the wrong game.

Pot kettle much? Please try to follow your own advice.

As for the topic – you seem to be assuming that GW2 is following all the standard staples when their manifesto quite clearly states they do not wish to.

They want players to have fun. Grind, by the commonly accepted definitions, is rarely itself considered fun. As I stated above, there is a difference between actively discouraging grind, and not encouraging it. I firmly believe GW2 takes the right approach in not rewarding grind for grind’s sake when compared to other activities.

The original point (lets’ not lose sight of that) isn’t that though – it’s that players who are grinding are being actively discouraged from doing so. There’s a difference. That is perhaps unfair. It does not mean that a player who does not grind should not achieve the exact same effect by doing something else, but rather that both playstyles should be deemed equal. That is fair, is it not?

Grammarye.3064:

Jack.1469:

you’re relying on your own subjective interpretation of what MMO’ing should be about.

Jack.1469:

Word of advice: If that’s your issue, MMOs are not for you. You’re playing the wrong game.

Pot kettle much? Please try to follow your own advice.

As for the topic – you seem to be assuming that GW2 is following all the standard staples when their manifesto quite clearly states they do not wish to.

They want players to have fun. Grind, by the commonly accepted definitions, is rarely itself considered fun. As I stated above, there is a difference between actively discouraging grind, and not encouraging it. I firmly believe GW2 takes the right approach in not rewarding grind for grind’s sake when compared to other activities.

The original point (lets’ not lose sight of that) isn’t that though – it’s that players who are grinding are being actively discouraged from doing so. There’s a difference. That is perhaps unfair. It does not mean that a player who does not grind should not achieve the exact same effect by doing something else, but rather that both playstyles should be deemed equal. That is fair, is it not?

Yes, and they took it one step further and discouraged grinding. As you yourself even say (while somewhat contradicting yourself), that puts nongrinders on a higher pedestal. And no, it’s not the pot calling the kettle black when I’m just supporting the idea of keeping ALL playing styles equal.

The arguments stated for discouraging grinding are getting rehashed. They just center around (1) a few players’ jealousy for those who have more hours in the day to spend farming. I love the bit one poster said about it ruining the economy and (2) a subjective dislike of grinding as a justification for neutering drops. Those in the latter group include casual players and those who like the grinders have extra time, but choose to earn money and items via differing means.

But those in the former group still have the option of playing casually as they obvious appear to do so. They can buy gems and cash them in for gold as well.

And if it wasn’t obvious enough, whether grinding is a tried and true method is just one argument for keeping it in the game. I never said that’s the only reason, but it’s a reason nonetheless. Anet obviously didn’t do away with the entire MMO model, otherwise it wouldn’t be an MMO. They’ve ditched certain aspects of the traditional MMO but have largely taken ideas from other games. I really believe getting rid of the timed drop cap is one of these ideas that should be considered and kept for good.

Jack.1469:

But those in the former group still have the option of playing casually as they obvious appear to do so. They can buy gems and cash them in for gold as well.

Lets’ not go nuts. It would be distinctly offensive to a lot of players to suggest that they must compete by expending real cash. It shouldn’t be about competition at all. It is supposed to be about fun.

Grind in GW2 is never going to yield huge quantities of cash by itself. The drops just don’t work like that, and nor should they. Events and so on yield the most money.

The original problem was farming for crafting items. Those don’t drop really by other means, so it’s a reasonable area to address. Gold is come by in many forms; grinding should not yield significantly more than other equivalent playstyles. That again is fair.

Pers.7108:

I really understand your point and it does not cover exactly what I am talking about. They have gold crafting recipes at 35 that require 15 tier 3 monster drops per piece. Now if I want to craft a set for my guildie that is 15*6 (90) pieces of whatever I need to farm. So I want to get 90 Bloods, so I would have to farm a certain area, no? It’s only a short amount of farming when I get limited so I have to keep waiting to farm it.

So buy the blood? I could, but that would be counter-productive and waste money that I spend it elsewhere (read money sinks).

So buy the gear? Again, counter-productive and what is the point of having crafting in the game? Why do they require a lot of materials? You farm it or buy it from other players. My choice of playstyle is to earn my way for myself and my guild. I want to craft them armor they will like and want. Why should I be punished to play this way even if it is a little old fashioned?

For cysts sake use your brain. Stop being so binary. I know that previous games have you per-programmed to take a mindless path but you need to break out of that. Let me solve your problems by using my brain for a few seconds.

Possible solutions:

1. Set up a farming path. Skales>>>harpies>>>beasts>>>skales. Stuff like that. Boom, you’re farming for bloods constantly and by the time 60+ minutes have passed the first area should be either unlocked or nearing unlock.

2. Can’t think of alternative spots to farm/too lazy to leave zone? FARM SOMETHING ELSE AND SELL IT. Then you can buy your bloods.

3. Since you have a crafting profession, leverage that. Check key parts of the market and make items that are selling well at the moment OR are running out of supply. Use the profits to buy the blood.

4. Completely ignore your problem and via normal play you will acquire plenty of blood after awhile.

5. Play an alt. Especially if the alt has a different spec so will not require the same type items.

6. When in the course of normal play you see a critter type that drops your item, go out of the way to kill it. If you are in an area with a concentration of those critters or an event, make a detour if close. This passive farming adds up very quickly.

I have 8 alts. Currently I think 6 of them are power based in their equipment (for leveling mainly). I have provided power based gear to multiple other people. I have always managed to make it work, even while crafting master items for myself.

You are doing it wrong! Don’t blame the game.

Ralathar.7236:

Pers.7108:

I really understand your point and it does not cover exactly what I am talking about. They have gold crafting recipes at 35 that require 15 tier 3 monster drops per piece. Now if I want to craft a set for my guildie that is 15*6 (90) pieces of whatever I need to farm. So I want to get 90 Bloods, so I would have to farm a certain area, no? It’s only a short amount of farming when I get limited so I have to keep waiting to farm it.

So buy the blood? I could, but that would be counter-productive and waste money that I spend it elsewhere (read money sinks).

So buy the gear? Again, counter-productive and what is the point of having crafting in the game? Why do they require a lot of materials? You farm it or buy it from other players. My choice of playstyle is to earn my way for myself and my guild. I want to craft them armor they will like and want. Why should I be punished to play this way even if it is a little old fashioned?

For cysts sake use your brain. Stop being so binary. I know that previous games have you per-programmed to take a mindless path but you need to break out of that. Let me solve your problems by using my brain for a few seconds.

Possible solutions:

1. Set up a farming path. Skales>>>harpies>>>beasts>>>skales. Stuff like that. Boom, you’re farming for bloods constantly and by the time 60+ minutes have passed the first area should be either unlocked or nearing unlock.

2. Can’t think of alternative spots to farm/too lazy to leave zone? FARM SOMETHING ELSE AND SELL IT. Then you can buy your bloods.

3. Since you have a crafting profession, leverage that. Check key parts of the market and make items that are selling well at the moment OR are running out of supply. Use the profits to buy the blood.

4. Completely ignore your problem and via normal play you will acquire plenty of blood after awhile.

5. Play an alt. Especially if the alt has a different spec so will not require the same type items.

6. When in the course of normal play you see a critter type that drops your item, go out of the way to kill it. If you are in an area with a concentration of those critters or an event, make a detour if close. This passive farming adds up very quickly.

7. Don’t forget to harvest. When you stay stationary in one spot you lose the ability to harvest materials from resource nodes. In the course of normal play these materials add up to alot of money you can use to buy bloods.

I have 8 alts. Currently I think 6 of them are power based in their equipment (for leveling mainly). I have provided power based gear to multiple other people. I have always managed to make it work, even while crafting master items for myself.

You are doing it wrong! Don’t blame the game.

Grammarye.3064:

Pavlovian treadmills are so last year[/quote]

Um… I have some bad news for you about GW2. It’s still a treadmill. Anything and everything that you want to acquire or accomplish in the game, with possibly the single exception of 100% map completion (which, thanks to hearts, contains a bunch of mini-treadmills) is a grind.

If you want to craft, you need to grind for materials or gold. If you want dungeon skins, you have to grind dungeons. If you want PvP stuff, you have to grind PvP. If you want karma items or skins, you have to grind karma. If you want a legendary you have to grind ALL THE THINGS!

It’s fine to say that GW2 wants to discourage grinding, but it’s not fine to say that the game itself actually accomplishes that goal in any elegant or meaningful way, and that the fault somehow lies with the players and their outmoded habits. Everywhere you turn in the game, there are carrots with huge, grind-baiting price tags attached to them, and you’re going to try to tell me that an anti-farm code suddenly turns the game into a brave new world of no grinding?

Pshaw, I say to you sir or madam. Pshaw.

poot.5487:

Um… I have some bad news for you about GW2. It’s still a treadmill. Anything and everything that you want to acquire or accomplish in the game, with possibly the single exception of 100% map completion (which, thanks to hearts, contains a bunch of mini-treadmills) is a grind.

If you want to craft, you need to grind for materials or gold. If you want dungeon skins, you have to grind dungeons. If you want PvP stuff, you have to grind PvP. If you want karma items or skins, you have to grind karma. If you want a legendary you have to grind ALL THE THINGS!

It’s fine to say that GW2 wants to discourage grinding, but it’s not fine to say that the game itself actually accomplishes that goal in any elegant or meaningful way, and that the fault somehow lies with the players and their outmoded habits. Everywhere you turn in the game, there are carrots with huge, grind-baiting price tags attached to them, and you’re going to try to tell me that an anti-farm code suddenly turns the game into a brave new world of no grinding?

Pshaw, I say to you sir or madam. Pshaw.

I agree with you. Grinding, it will always exist. Why? Because no matter how many things there are to do, if you play the game long enough, repetition is inevitable. I’m already bothered at how often the same events happen and my highest level character is only lvl50.

@Jack: “Your last quote is the most revealing of your true intentions behind making such a questionably supported argument above. Your issue is with people having the time and dedication to spend on getting high level gear within a short amount of time.”

Yes – if they disrupt the enjoyment that other people are having in actually playing the game as it was designed. Prestige gear in Guild Wars is cosmetic (mostly) – it’s designed to be a long term incentive to play the game. It’s not there to encourage bots and farmers to stand around spamming some rote sequence in order to exploit some imbalance in the way Arenanet have allocated the loot.

By playing in this way you are just as negative to the gameplay of other people as bots are. What is intended is a community of players who join up to achieve some feats of derring do – not a load of geeks who have nothing better to do than stand in one place, ignoring everyone else in the game just so they can rack up some absurd amount of in game cash and screw the economy.

All in all it’s a thoroughly selfish way of playing and not only acts against the gameplay, but any reasonable interpretation of how people should interact in a social environment – try behaving that way with your mum, dad, family and RL friends – Ok so you wouldn’t – then don’t inflict it on other people either.

Bumping this. After farming mobs in cursed shore and doing a couple of events in a row diminishing returns has set in and nothing is dropping.

I understand the botting ban, but it effects those who like to manually grind mobs to improve their gear.

Any idea on when the diminishing resets? 2 hour?

All in all, a set of players having time to get materials would inflate the prices for the rest.

This happens in all games. There’s thos who farm and get the stuff, and those who doesn’t, and eventually the game mechanics consider that when it comes to drops.
And those who doesn’t farm end up farming too to catch up with those who do farm.
That’s why a cap is needed.
Once you hit that cap, you must do other stuff.

Farming enemies isn’t the only source of materials. You might need that material, but others may not, and so they put them on sale. Once you hit the cap, you should consider doing events, and using the money you earn to get more materials from the Trading Post.
What if you don’t like evens…?
Well… playing GW while not doing events it’s like playing Tetris without rotating pieces. You can do that… just don’t expect to get too far.

This is I feel, especially a problem considering ALL the crap you kill in Orr, are Risen.

Adapt to the game, do not expect the game to adapt to you. This is especially true when it comes to making money.