Guild Wars 2

I love this game and the dungeons have the best protential in any MMO I’ve played. The Story Mode and Exp Mode of the dungeons is a great idea and even better when you have little events inside them (I wish they was abit more random, but they’re still good) The fact that Exp Mode has different paths you can choose so it’s not always the same, the story behind it is different the bosses are different. The FoTM idea is amazing that it scales in difficulty. But apart from the good ideas I think this game is lacking any real structure when it comes to grouping and fights.

Just a heads up in this post i compare GW2 to WoW but not because i want GW2 to be a clone of WoW, but because WoW is the MMO I have most experiance with and therefore have experiances i can compare to.

In my opinion, the removal of the trinity has made this game worse off then all of the “LF Healer” spam. I support the Holy Trinity and I really wished Anet kept it in the game, because it is prob the biggest problem I have with the game and it makes it so boring to play and makes the game lack so much structure IMO and here is why:

WvW- WvW is a massive zerg. There are no tatics. It’s a matter of is my group bigger then your group and the answer to that question is most likely going to determind which of the two forces win the battle. Now I played wow and although WvW is much better then WoW’s world pvp (TB in cata which is when i quit). TB had so much more tatics then WvW ever will. TB had 3 capture points and althougn a complete zerg would usually capture it, if you was lucky enough to have decent healers with you then you could hold out in that fight. It no longer became a matter of who has a bigger army. In my opinion, if we had real healers in this game WvW would be so much better. Battles would be more structured, you’d have targets to kill not just “kill whoever you can the fastest”, they would last longer and therefore be more intense, when you’ve got a battle and the healers about to go down but his teammates are trying to help him, it’s so intense you’re falling of the edge of your seat when you see their hp drop to about 5-10% hp. When you finally kill the healers you get so much enjoyment and feels much more rewarding. Then you know you will be able to finish off the rest of the group as you’ve already taken their healers out. Healers inside keeps meaning people actually have a reason to defend keeps instead of just holding it untill a bigger zerg comes to take it over. There is nothing like that in WvW because as I said it’s a zerg. A battle of who can form the bigger group.

SPvP – I don’t do much SPvP and so I wont have alot to say about it, but again it’s just boring, it’s a matter of zerging the enemy team and recapturing points. I will compare this to WoW again has BG’s like the SPvP capture points we have here, but it isn’t a matter of zerging. (I have not played any Tpvp only the random free matches) but there is no defending here, no structure, it’s just people runing to a capture point taking it and then runing to the next one while the enemy team runs behind them doing the same untill both teams meet and whichever team wins the batter leads the way to the capture points. Wow you could have people defending that can actually becasue of roles like healers, you could have a healer and a dps defending one capture point and unless a big number of people come to kill you, chances are you’ll be able to keep it for quite some time. There is nothing like that in random PvP atleast as everyone just runs around in a group trying to zerg the capture points

PvE – Now I am a PvE lover and this is where the Holy Trinity hits games the most. I love dungeons in games. They are what i find fun, but in GW2, man are they boring. It’s a simple matter (of again) zerging down that boss before the groups CD’s keep them alive. Mobs and bosses have no tatics, they have stupid spells that do massive amounts of damage which makes players move back to get their health back then push again. Dungeons in this game do not even feel like real dungeons, they feel like solo instances. You get 5 players that don’t ever need to say a single word together and can still complete the dungeon. There is no roles, no structure to them. It’s 5 players trying to do as much dps as they possibly can (most of the time before they die becasue their CD’s were not ready). Yes, people can say oh dungeons need to be harder and I agree it would make them better, but without that tank, without that healer, anet are limited to what they can do as for tatics and mechanics.
I’ll give you an examples from WoW -when the boss leaves a debuff on a player that reduces their stats or when gets too high kills the player so the tanks have to take in turns tanking while the other one waits for the debuff to run off. Again we couldn’t have anything like that here because there is no agrro, he’d run around giving every player the debuff and so it’d be impossible.
Or one of my favourite fights in Naxx (can’t remember his name) but every so often he puts a debuff on players. Half the group gets a + and the other half get a minus -. If a + and a – player stands together they take damage, but if a + and a + stand together they do extra damage. But you have to kill the boss before a certain timer so everyone has to stack together so everyone splits into two groups. Again we couldn’t have anything like this because there wouldn’t be a tank holding aggro and so he would randomly be attacking players and those that do not have any decent defense are going to die or move away to regen health but at the cost of risking the bos becoming enraged and wiping you.

Beucase we can’t have any real tatics that consist of 1 or a group of people doing a certain thing because there is no aggro the dungeons are boring and a matter of kill the boss fast. Now i admit FoTM are much better then the normal SM and EM dungeons and the dungeons have afew tatics to them, the bosses still lack no real mechanics besides one or two. The boss fights are still a straight forward nuke and still are not up to the standard where they are fun enough to actually farm.

Now Anet had a good reason to think about removing it, “LF1 Healer for x” is annoying, but if Anet finally made a dungeon finder tool for cross servers I don’t see this being a big issue. In WoW it takes normally around 5-10 mins to get a group for a dungeon and upto half an hour to get a group for Raid Finder which is 25 players. Now that’s not much of a long waiting time for a dungeon. Sure it’s not the quickest, but if you try and do Exp mode dungeon in GW2 atm you can be waiting upto half an hour for a full group and that’s if you even get one at all.

I just think having roles in this game would give so much more to the game then how it is atm. Anet tried to break away most MMO’s by removing the Holy Trinity, but was it really a good idea? I agree change is good, but when it’s one of the core systems in most MMO’s i think anet tried to change too much and it’s backfired. Most people I know that played GW2 have left, most of them because they hate the way dungeons are, how it’s a zerg fest of 5 solo players. There is no group to dungeons.

While people might moan and say “Go back to WoW then blah blah blah” I don’t really want to. I love this game as I loved GW1 (Which also had healers and roles). It’s a beautiful game with really good ideas and great potential. I just hope that Anet can come up with some ideas to change the game so that it is about more then just zerging everything that gets in your path just with having more players.

I think that Anet needs to add more variety in weapon sets (alongside the abilities that come with each weapon) and slot skills… I feel like the game would contain more tactical depth if the trinity was implemented back into the game but not specifically for each class. I feel like each class, depending on how you customize that class, could be either a sole healer, sole dps, sole tank (and of course, this is a gross simplification). I agree with you in that each class is sort of a mix of everything… It really makes your build feel superficial at times, doesnt it?

It’s not a case of lack of roles. There are roles if you’re creative enough. Personally, I’m glad the game doesn’t force you into a specific role.

I (now) play a Hammer / Greatsword Control Warrior. With Bladetrail, Hammer Shock, Shrapnal Mine (Charr Racial) and the Leg Specialist trait, ad Immobilise not being affecged by Defiance, I can excel in mass Control.

Another plays a Support Thief (Shadow Refuge, Blinding Powder, Smoke Screen) with applying stealth also applies regen. Stealth also gives people a chance to recover.

It’s a case of lack of encounter mechanics that encourage people to take up roles.

I think you are right to an extent man, but what if you wanted to go towards a healing route? You do mention your thief, but 1.) How many classes could actually provide for a clear-cut healing role (the only I can think of is perhaps a water elementalist with sceptor/dagger) or 2.) There aren’t many different ways to get to that point.. When I was experimenting with builds for sPVP i had suspicions that my build is an exact clone of many others. The skill system sometimes feels limited to me.

Also, I feel like there shouldnt only be 3/2 specific weapon skills respectively. Maybe a nice addon would be the addition of more weapon skills per weapon. Just as in slot skills, you can edit and switch your weapon skills creating more depth. Although one could say then that there would be less strategy in the game by doing so, but I suggest that each weapon could provide for certain types of skills unique to that weapon still maintaining the strategy in wielding certain weapons.

Putting the poor grammar aside, I agree with a few of your points.

WvW is pretty much a “rush in and kill” type of system, but the issue with comparing GW2 to WoW, is that WoW still revolves around the “Holy Trinity” whereas GW2 does not. You can’t take out “healers” and win, because everyone and their pets(Literally) are healers.

PvE I disagree with you greatly. You don’t need a huge zerg to take down all the bosses and to complete events. I am more of a solo player to start with, I find it more relaxing, unless I’ve got a nice group of friends on Skype then we can go take on AC or whatever dungeon someone is out for at the moment.
Being a solo player, I can still complete most events and Bosses by myself. Even if it takes some time, the point is; it can be done. Strategy is a huge thing. Use NPCs to your advantage, if you’re near a town. Let other Mobs go after the boss too. Everything helps.

EliteZ.1682:

“Go back to WoW then blah blah blah”

Basically this.
Yes, in gw2 the majority wins the encounter almost always which should be looked at, but introducing trinity is not the way to fix it. If you get such a thrill from killing healers, seriously, go play another mmo :P

If you ask me most of the problems araise from players forgetting that they got those defensive trait lines, foods, rune sets etc to make their char something else then a glass cannon. You can be any of the trinity if you spec for it and get right gear.

Majora.6028:

Putting the poor grammar aside, I agree with a few of your points.

WvW is pretty much a “rush in and kill” type of system, but the issue with comparing GW2 to WoW, is that WoW still revolves around the “Holy Trinity” whereas GW2 does not. You can’t take out “healers” and win, because everyone and their pets(Literally) are healers.

PvE I disagree with you greatly. You don’t need a huge zerg to take down all the bosses and to complete events. I am more of a solo player to start with, I find it more relaxing, unless I’ve got a nice group of friends on Skype then we can go take on AC or whatever dungeon someone is out for at the moment.
Being a solo player, I can still complete most events and Bosses by myself. Even if it takes some time, the point is; it can be done. Strategy is a huge thing. Use NPCs to your advantage, if you’re near a town. Let other Mobs go after the boss too. Everything helps.

I’m not talking about DE’s. I’m talking about dungeons, at the moment, apart from afew fractals, they are a simple zerg. Kill the boss before he kills you. there are no mechanics to them, no real tatics that makes you do certain things. It’s a simple dps fight to kill that boss which is boring.

It’s your (and the most other people’s) mindest which is to be blamed.

Playing in a really good WvW Squad, or rocking high tournament play with a coordinated group would probably blow your mind (off the trinity).

I agree about the dungeons. Of course, I don’t like the dungeons for that reason, and the fact that they aren’t soloable. WvW, and requiring it for map completion, are a couple of my pet peaves, you have to zerg to do WvW, and that sux most of the time.

I’m going to go ahead and point out that your Naxxramas reference actually works against you, because that -is- a fight mechanic in one of the Fractals – specifically the Uncategorized Fractal, as one of the last boss mechanics.

You’re glossing over one if the biggest problems with the trinity setup: it creates primadonnas.

It vastly cheapens the experience for the majority of the player base and places a minority on a pedestal, allowing them to do as they please at the expense of everyone else. It was quite common to have a tank or a healer hold their group hostage. If you failed to bend to a tank or healer’s demands, they’d drop, forcing you to spend sometimes a half hour or more looking for a replacement, as often as not breaking up the group before one could be found.

True, there were some interesting mechanics you could introduce as a result of the trinity, but I can’t say I miss any of it. Groups in GW2 aren’t perfect (e.g. I refuse to do PuG fractals anymore), but they’re better than the alternative.

I’m not 100% sure how the aggro works in this game yet, I think it takes proximity, health, and dps into consideration, possibly a few other things, and i haven’t played any tank class yet in pve or dungeons so i don’t know how hard it is to keep aggro, but there is definitely no lack of roles.

If you want to you can role a full out tank, or a super effective support role, I actually just turned my guardian into a pretty darn good heal/support character.

As far as dungeons and pve go, try putting a solid group together that has variety, when I run dungeons with friends, we go into vent, and talk tactics about certain bosses, we use a tankier person for some things, and sometimes someone with good healing. Can you go into a dungeon and zerg a boss till its dead? yeah, but you will most likely spend a lot of time reviving downed players, or teleporting to a waypoint and running back in because you died. If you go into a dungeon with a tank and a healer and use tactics and things like vent, you can avoid most of those issues, and by doing so have a lot more fun, a speedier run, and less repair cost.

One thing I do think they need to do better is reward those people who play support/healing roles, as of right now, i think you have to do something like 5% damage to a mob to get a drop? While that’s not hard, I think they need to add in a mechanic that takes into account how much healing you do for your team, because if I’m focusing on heals and keeping people alive, that % of damage that I have to do gets harder and harder to accomplish.

Didn’t get much further than the WvW bit before having to rush down here to comment. While its true that zerg size determines things most of the time, a well coordinated group of five can hold off a zerg of 20-30. I should know, I’ve done it. And imo lack of trinity is a good thing. It lets players play builds they want. I know you came from WoW, but don’t try to turn GW2 into WoW. If you like the trinity, I suggest you move to a game that has it.

WvW- I disagree.

The thing is, GW2 makes you choose a healing skill. In fact, you get a few options which help with different situations/builds. Guardians are already insanly hard to kill if they play it right and not to mention how powerful their heals can be, adding a “Main healer” would just be overkill. As TheDaibish posted, he can pull off a pretty powerful control build and so could a thief if they wanted (Stealth attack from SB, trap, Scorpion wire from you or thief summon). Want a “tank”? Warrior with shield or ranger with a build centered on a beefy pet or guardian, or thief with enough evades. The thing is, these are options for various professions which is what makes this game just so amazing. You are no longer bound to one set of rules when you make a profession, you can experiment and become w/e you want if you get creative enough or ask around. Down with holy trinity, up with creativity.

i dont agree with your logic but i do agree that its a problem with the trinity..
it basicly means that without it in something like fractal at higher lvls you will only need healing classes since the amount of overall constant dps gets so high that its simply just a most that every one have healing+tank and some dps.
instead of allowing diversity by removing the “forced roles” that the trinity provides they have forced every one to become the exact same thereby instead of having a 3 types of roles you could basicly provide you now only have ONE and that one every one will have to follow…

its too late to change such things in gw2 since it would require a complete rethink of all balance and skills maybe even skill system which will never happend. but i do agree that its an issue

edit:
actually the clearest and best argument for the trinity right now is that with that model you have control over who can do what and how many it needs to take “x healer, x dps, x tanks” while with gw2 system its impossible to do such a thing without super lame 1 shot none avoidable mechanic’s (which results in people being able to solo stuff which is designed for full groups, very impressive, but something which clearly wasnt intended and you can see in trinity model games is not happening due to that model preventing 1 person from doing dps,healing and tanking at the same time to the amount which is needed.)

runeblade.7514:

WvW- I disagree.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-919RMwyfnk

their meteor shawor was hitting you for 600 dmg -.- norm if they are 80+geared thats 3-6k …. dont need to discuss weather or not these people are super lowbies in comparison do we?!(since it seems like they are really lowbies :P hehe still pretty cool done not saying its not, just saying that this doesnt show anything against what is stated here)..

its very nice to hear you be very organised but that doesnt change the fact that this is pure zergish, if just 10 of those had been endgeared they would have ripped through you in seconds, since you are ignoring the aoe rains comming over you continually which shows that you are relaying on them being badly geared/low lvls

when that is said if you look pass it and forget about that then this is how it should be looking against max geared people if they had no idea how to play and just zerg rushed forward :P hehe. would be amazing

This again? Epic fail.
Erebus.7568 – when ele is specced as healer all offensive spells are really bad.

If you want dedicated healer or tenk – you can be so. Role ele, take staff, and invest traits into healing – easiest healer ever. People simply don’t want to go for this due to his fantastic offensive abilities.

If there is no other healer on the map, maybe you need better deal in your guild.

As for dungeons, here is my idea about it. It is long but it was needed to make it clear what I meant by it
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Dungeon-mechanic-example-randomized-dungeon/first#post955280

ZeftheWicked.3076:

If you ask me most of the problems araise from players forgetting that they got those defensive trait lines, foods, rune sets etc to make their char something else then a glass cannon. You can be any of the trinity if you spec for it and get right gear.

Exactly. For the people complaining about the lack of roles ArenaNet could introduce it as some kind of build recipe for the kind of role they want to play.

You want a healer? Then make a guardian with staff/maximize healing power/get monk runes and choose healing skills… And there you go!

Erebus.7568:

i dont agree with your logic but i do agree that its a problem with the trinity..
it basicly means that without it in something like fractal at higher lvls you will only need healing classes since the amount of overall constant dps gets so high that its simply just a most that every one have healing+tank and some dps.
instead of allowing diversity by removing the “forced roles” that the trinity provides they have forced every one to become the exact same thereby instead of having a 3 types of roles you could basicly provide you now only have ONE and that one every one will have to follow…

its too late to change such things in gw2 since it would require a complete rethink of all balance and skills maybe even skill system which will never happend. but i do agree that its an issue

edit:
actually the clearest and best argument for the trinity right now is that with that model you have control over who can do what and how many it needs to take “x healer, x dps, x tanks” while with gw2 system its impossible to do such a thing without super lame 1 shot none avoidable mechanic’s (which results in people being able to solo stuff which is designed for full groups, very impressive, but something which clearly wasnt intended and you can see in trinity model games is not happening due to that model preventing 1 person from doing dps,healing and tanking at the same time to the amount which is needed.)

First off, at higher fractals, most people learn to utilize dodge/escape skills so they don’t have to worry soo much about healing. At level 20 Fotm I was using Signet of Malice on my cond thief and doing fine, suriviving better isn’t necessarily stronger heals otherwise only guardians with full healing power vitality would be doing them.

Secondly, we arn’t forced into the same role, maybe you just have bad luck forming groups but how we build is entirely our choice, its just no one likes to put on full healing power or toughness if they don’t have to. The Holy trinity does force you into a role and thats restrictive as kitten, something GW2 did a fantastic job of avoiding. Sure some professions are better at roles than others but they are supposed to otherwise there would really be no reason to pick X profession. The one shot mechanic is kinda bad but I’m sure ArenaNet’s logic behind it was “save your endurance for that”. But it also comes down to your build, you can’t run glass cannons in fotm thats just that, if you struggle soo much in higher levels of fotm reroll your build and focus on defencive stats a little more but from experience, you don’t have to go full guardian with your build.

Erebus.7568:

instead of allowing diversity by removing the “forced roles” that the trinity provides they have forced every one to become the exact same thereby instead of having a 3 types of roles you could basicly provide you now only have ONE and that one every one will have to follow…

Disagree.

No one has forced my Warrior as a DPS character. I chose to build it as a Mass Control build.

Erebus.7568:

…while with gw2 system its impossible to do such a thing without super lame 1 shot none avoidable mechanic’s…

Then that’s a problem with encounter mechanics. Encounter mechanics that force teamwork are needed, not pre-defined roles.

For example, let’s say Evil McBadguy has does an attack that, in 5 seconds, will explode, killing that player. However, if there are other players close by, then the damage is shared amongst the players (2p – 50%, 3p – 25%, 4p – 10%, 5p – 5%).

Or maybe he has an attack that ‘links’ two players, which causes a continuous DoT until it’s broken by the players moving directly near each other.

Encounter mechanics can be made and introduced to force teamwork, and not make content solo-able, without resorting to ‘you NEED a Tank/DPS/Healer’.

In GW there’s no classes, there’s profession.
It may seem mere semantics to you, but there’s a reason why it’s not ‘class’.
Classes have roles, but in GW, professions do not have roles.
BUILDS have roles.

You can focus more in one thing than another with a build, but your profession, even if it will do some things better than others, will still be able to do a wide variety of things.

In GW the one that is most responsible for your survival is yourself. If you are getting killed is not because the game lacks good tanking and healing, it’s because you are not grasping the game mechanics that allow you to survive longer.

I found the OP’s remarks that the bigger zerg usually wins quite amusing- maybe it does in noobsville, but in higher tiers it’s much more about communication and people’s playing abilities, styles and having the right sort of builds to both survive and contribute to the group. Been in many battles where our far smaller ‘zerg’ has wiped far larger ones- it’s about having the right mix of team and solo players and builds and people willing to commit to the fight.

It’s truely great when you realise you have been standing in the enemy aoe for quite a while and because other players on your side know how to play and what to throw around you’re still alive. Contrast that with a bunch of solo selfish builds that can’t adapt quickly to circumstances and bring no group skills to the party and believe their role is to run backwards at the first sign of even odds and i know which side I’m on.

GW2 is great because the more you look at the professions the more you realise they are there to be tweaked and adapted to suit your style of play and can be adapted for different roles in different places without having to pigeon hole, the more you play one class the more you realise you can do with it and the more you realise how important the right weap, armor, stats, traits, foods, etc all combine to help you realise that build that works best for you.

GW2 rewards synergy between builds- better built squads will always find things easier than a random throw -together. But the real beauty of GW2 is that even pug squads can work in most instances, only failing if the players themselves are not up to scratch and totally failed to think about their build, traits etc:’ I’m fine I’m a solo build I can 1v1 ’ might not be quite so good in a dungeon:-)

I for one am very happy that they didn’t fall into the usual MMO trap of ‘healer/tank/dps roles’. I know it’s difficult for WoW players to get this concept but GW2 system gives you way more flexibility for your profession than the old way of MMO’s.

Try some non-cookie cutter builds on your professions and see what plays well for you. For instance, a mesmer running 30/10/10/10/10, two glamours, gs with scepter (X)/temporal curtain will no doubt attract some derision from a lot of solo mesmers but I run it in wvw for group play for devastating effect and can hold my own against soloists of most classes- most don’t seem to realise what a powerful skill temporal curtain is- try pulling people with it and see!

GW2 is great in it’s variety for each class- sure some stuff is broken, in the wrong trees, etc but they will work on balance issues (check out gw1, endlessly changing skills) and it can only get better.

Victory.2879:

I found the OP’s remarks that the bigger zerg usually wins quite amusing- maybe it does in noobsville, but in higher tiers it’s much more about communication and people’s playing abilities, styles and having the right sort of builds to both survive and contribute to the group. Been in many battles where our far smaller ‘zerg’ has wiped far larger ones- it’s about having the right mix of team and solo players and builds and people willing to commit to the fight.

It’s truely great when you realise you have been standing in the enemy aoe for quite a while and because other players on your side know how to play and what to throw around you’re still alive. Contrast that with a bunch of solo selfish builds that can’t adapt quickly to circumstances and bring no group skills to the party and believe their role is to run backwards at the first sign of even odds and i know which side I’m on.

GW2 is great because the more you look at the professions the more you realise they are there to be tweaked and adapted to suit your style of play and can be adapted for different roles in different places without having to pigeon hole, the more you play one class the more you realise you can do with it and the more you realise how important the right weap, armor, stats, traits, foods, etc all combine to help you realise that build that works best for you.

GW2 rewards synergy between builds- better built squads will always find things easier than a random throw -together. But the real beauty of GW2 is that even pug squads can work in most instances, only failing if the players themselves are not up to scratch and totally failed to think about their build, traits etc:’ I’m fine I’m a solo build I can 1v1 ’ might not be quite so good in a dungeon:-)

I for one am very happy that they didn’t fall into the usual MMO trap of ‘healer/tank/dps roles’. I know it’s difficult for WoW players to get this concept but GW2 system gives you way more flexibility for your profession than the old way of MMO’s.

Try some non-cookie cutter builds on your professions and see what plays well for you. For instance, a mesmer running 30/10/10/10/10, two glamours, gs with scepter (X)/temporal curtain will no doubt attract some derision from a lot of solo mesmers but I run it in wvw for group play for devastating effect and can hold my own against soloists of most classes- most don’t seem to realise what a powerful skill temporal curtain is- try pulling people with it and see!

GW2 is great in it’s variety for each class- sure some stuff is broken, in the wrong trees, etc but they will work on balance issues (check out gw1, endlessly changing skills) and it can only get better.

This, all of this. Especially the last part. Give it a year or two, balance will be way better, and classes can shine in other areas when more builds work better. Mesmers, Assassins and Dervishes seemed to always have changes in GW1, but they got better and better.

I don’t know i like gw2 as it is, we dont need another roles or more specific roles.. because that would be leaning to WoW and if u want to play wow go play it. GW2 is new i’m sure they will add weapon skills in new continent upgrade.

Oh yes because I think the roles in GW2 are lacking at the moment and the fact that I have played WoW before obviously means I want to go play it. It never amuses me how much people rage as soon as they see the words “wow”. NO making roles stronger in this game would NOT make it a WoW clone. GW2 has roles yes i agree, but they are not strong enough at the moment. I didn’t even say i want the holy trinity back, all i’m asking for is Anet to rethink their roles and tweak them abit because at the moment (especailly in pve and dungeons) there really is no need for roles untill you’ll get up to the higher fractals and then you need everyone to go near full supportive because the damage is too high for a single supportive class.

Oh yes because I think the roles in GW2 are lacking at the moment and the fact that I have played WoW before obviously means I want to go play it. It never amuses me how much people rage as soon as they see the words “wow”. NO making roles stronger in this game would NOT make it a WoW clone. GW2 has roles yes i agree, but they are not strong enough at the moment. I didn’t even say i want the holy trinity back, all i’m asking for is Anet to rethink their roles and tweak them abit because at the moment (especailly in pve and dungeons) there really is no need for roles untill you’ll get up to the higher fractals and then you need everyone to go near full supportive because the damage is too high for a single supportive class.

Oh yes because I think the roles in GW2 are lacking at the moment and the fact that I have played WoW before obviously means I want to go play it. It never amuses me how much people rage as soon as they see the words “wow”. NO making roles stronger in this game would NOT make it a WoW clone. GW2 has roles yes i agree, but they are not strong enough at the moment. I didn’t even say i want the holy trinity back, all i’m asking for is Anet to rethink their roles and tweak them abit because at the moment (especailly in pve and dungeons) there really is no need for roles untill you’ll get up to the higher fractals and then you need everyone to go near full supportive because the damage is too high for a single supportive class.

Oh yes because I think the roles in GW2 are lacking at the moment and the fact that I have played WoW before obviously means I want to go play it. It never amuses me how much people rage as soon as they see the words “wow”. NO making roles stronger in this game would NOT make it a WoW clone. GW2 has roles yes i agree, but they are not strong enough at the moment. I didn’t even say i want the holy trinity back, all i’m asking for is Anet to rethink their roles and tweak them abit because at the moment (especailly in pve and dungeons) there really is no need for roles untill you’ll get up to the higher fractals and then you need everyone to go near full supportive because the damage is too high for a single supportive class.

When I agree about more skills avalible for every single weapon combination (could be a modifer, changing basic skills to do sth else etc.) I completly disagree with your state about “stategic” TB. Whoever played it can say that it was just kitten hillarious Capture&Hold Clockwise circle cycle. And, for real, group with more healers was winning by zerg. I feel that the only lack of WoW system can be found in sPvP, which is now, with lazy CTP modes, static, about bunkers and roamers and with no real purpose. I liked Cataclysm pvp, mostly because of 3v3 2k+ rated arenas. Why? They were much about tactic and skillshow&teamwork. It wasn’t a 2 sec burst zerg on both sides (most of the times, not to mention ogues with legendaries& mages), you had time to react and predict, which was incredible fun. I suppose sth like Resilience should be added to GW2 PvP (not a stat on armor, just a buff/debuff when touching any player on W3, sPvP) ASAP!

Here is the problem with the way things currently are. Take 5 people, geared in only rares, with shotgun traits (IE they grabbed what looked good, not researched a build) and grabbed what utility skills they find workf or them. Now go do a dungeoun. If that runt akes over an hour, time to tweak the dungeoun and make it easier.
Without defined roles, a group of monkeys should be able to play through the content and just institute a hard mode for the whinners that give no benefit other than an increase in difficulty (after all everyone claims they want it harder purely for the challenge right? if so prove it by asking for no farther reward).

Also, get the ascended items out of FOTM and into every other aspect of the game already. It’s been far too long with 70% of the population sitting in LA or only farming FOTM. The world used to look full of life, now it is a wasteland all because of this one dungeoun.

Runiir.6425:

[…]

With that I would agree.

But only if they got difficulty settings of some sort, so people can set difficulty to higher settings and get things done with more challenge and time investent, and get shinier shinnies in exchange.
It could be something like fractals’ level, it could be something different, but dungeons should be more forgiving with players seeking just to see the story and have a good time.

As they are now, it’s preposterous how often will people force you to skip countless enemies without killing them to get to some chest, because they find those enemies too hard or too tedious.
And it’s extremely hard to find people who will not skip as much of the dungeon as possible.
It’s so ridiculous that some people would rather spend 25minutes trying to run past some enemies than 15 fighting them, because of how used they are getting to skip stuff instead fighting.
I can’t count how many times I wish some doors where closed until every single thing in the room except us was done for.
Running away from enemies. Ugh. Revolting.

Back on topic with the OP:

Having played extensively in GW1 where the trinity did exist and GW2 where there was a different trinity, I would say your expectations for GW2 is a bit skewed.

In a traditional Trinity you simply have the 3 normal class types in which it would be a balance of EHP (damage mitigated via healing / prot vs damage dealt to mobs). It applied across the board of PvE and PvP. The main healers would need to balance damage received and the tanks / support would need to max DPS. You win if your damage dealt vs monster EHP is higher than damage recieved vs your group EHP. Although I loved monking in GW1 I saw the traditional trinity as a highly optimized damage meter which often resulted in prolonged fights versus a mob with more healing / prot than you can dish out damage. More often than not in a traditional trinity game you would use only particular skills which helped drive the trinity forward (dolyak signet, prot spirit, WoH, endure pain, SY) and EVERY team had those. All but the most complicated boss battles were easily marginalized as great team builds could overcome anything without dying once. PvP was even worse, with great team builds you had to “outlast” the other teams attacks or do prot/counter spike in almost infinite regress (prot/counter spike more than 5 layers deep is fun, just a waste of time).

This is where GW2 changed the way we gamers play. By not giving a very strong interplayer heal, the three elements support, control, and tanking are the trinity of this game. By not having healing you instead have builds which need to be tweaked almost by the minute to survive. GW2 is harder than GW1 was, you can’t really get infinite regress with the CD on some of the skills which let you tank better, your control is limited by duration, and support is limited by the types of boons and how they help in certain situations.

So although I am sympathetic to somehow changing the GW2 trinity to include more party healing, better use / duration of control, changing CD to allow for better tanking, I simply feel that doing so will introduce infinite regress where you can win simply due to a build and skill and there is no excitement in playing.

(sorry if it seems that I favor random party wipes, for the record I hate RNG)

Played many MMOs over the years (FFXI mainly, and some crappy “f2p” on the side because I don’t use my partents money) and I have to say I prefer carrying my own weight versus expecting someone to keep me alive or worrying about grabbing too much “hate” or aggro. Lets say they added the monk despite the lore not accepting it, some might feel that they can run a glass cannon build safer and try it for most things when they got a monk around. Now if they die, the glass cannons will kitten talk the monk down for not full filling their role. Lets say they make guardian have a sort of “aggro pull” skill. If the guardian loses hate and the enemy starts attacking someone and they die, they complain that the guardian has no idea what they’re doing. The way things are now, pushing anyone into a more static “role” would be very difficult and drive many players away. The fact that almost every fight requires you to stay attentive and not mindlessly drop a heal on someone or pull the aggro is a lot more exciting and leaves less room for group drama. I hated being yelled at because I missed a heal or stun by a second or two or pulled too much hate, it isn’t fun nor inviting when I’m there to play a game not build some empire with random people I could care a kitten about. I can see how the 1 shot mechanics are pretty lame and they should be more group centered and not just an easy death but the game is still fairly fresh and I’m sure they are looking into new ways to approach boss mechanics.