Guild Wars 2

+1 for removing from WvW

right now numbers > skill. If 2 can win vs 6 thats how the battle should play out,right now its not possible. There are times i know i can take out a target or 2 and possibly get away but I stopped trying because they get rezzed and I end up across the map at the WP.

-1 for removing it. I have seen smaller groups take out larger forces simply because they were better at reviving their side than the other was.

It would make thieves even more power than they already are. A group of 4-5 thieves could perma-stealth and wipe out any entire army of 100 people because they would never have to risk deathblowing someone. They just all attack the same person, that person dies, repeat on the next.

Ljiona.9142:

-1 for removing it. I have seen smaller groups take out larger forces simply because they were better at reviving their side than the other was.

It would make thieves even more power than they already are. A group of 4-5 thieves could perma-stealth and wipe out any entire army of 100 people because they would never have to risk deathblowing someone. They just all attack the same person, that person dies, repeat on the next.

Thief burst is getting nerfed next round (maybe all classes). It’s stated by a dev in the thief forums. Taking that and assuming a fix to culling in the future you shouldn’t have this concern especially in an organized group.

The problem with downed is there is zero skill involved. Someone went down, run over and depress the F key. Sheer coordinated numbers win regardless of skill.

Don’t use the F key, I almost never use it. The downed state is not so much another stage then just the last bit of your health bar which you don’t need a dedicated healing build for. Control and burn until everything is dead then loot. I agree with the disparity in downed state skill however, there really should be a stock arsenal of skills for everyone and more designed for helping your friends tick away at another group, otherwise, if you go down to two or more players on your own you should be dead, and if you die, you should be dead and the map should come up.

kash.9213:

Don’t use the F key, I almost never use it. The downed state is not so much another stage then just the last bit of your health bar which you don’t need a dedicated healing build for. Control and burn until everything is dead then loot. I agree with the disparity in downed state skill however, there really should be a stock arsenal of skills for everyone and more designed for helping your friends tick away at another group, otherwise, if you go down to two or more players on your own you should be dead, and if you die, you should be dead and the map should come up.

I was more talking about the skill involved in reviving. He said some groups are “better at reviving” which amounts to moving to point X (perhaps casting a field or stability) and hitting F.

If you seriously think that mist form is that powerful, you, my friend, are insane.

First – The ONLY large uses:

Defending a keep and if you have a group to hide behind for rez- makes it kinda hard to fully die BUT:
We have very little raw defense – toughness, HP, armor so we die really fast anyway, even downed.
If you CC spam during the kill, we can’t move (roots don’t dissipate as i’ve been rooted in place during mist form more than a few times.
You also incur 2 (yes 2) downed penalty, one for the first down and one for the second which makes you die super fast the next time, in which case you cannot mist form again because you just DIE as soon as it ends due to having 3 downed penalty.

Thirdly – its 100% absolutely USELESS in an open field if you dont’ have a large number of people to hide behind. I, as an elementalist, LOVE downing my own class in the field… easiest kill in the game.

As for this…:

“You can also travel to the nearest mob, to kill him and rally! So many utility on the same spell.”

LOL – Yeah, because I can own that mob with ele downed skills before the player whacks me with a stake….. right.

I won’t say our downed skill is lame – its definitely improved, but it is far from versatile or being the best.

To the person who said that nobody would walk into an AE field to rez (i.e. more net kills) then there is no issue with down state anyway, because that guy is dead and not rezzed. I never said I have a crapload of people running in to rez, but when one does, I root him and blast away with AE litter.. most times it kills them both.

Removing downed state would make it way easier for zergs, not harder.

Shadow.1059:

Rashagal.5867:

uhm… it’s a team game? Also, do you really want a thief bursting you down in 3 secs just after you finally got to that supply camp you all the way across the map you wanted to take? You can interrupt the revive just as easily as the stomp. Anet built this game so that burst can happen VERY quickly. As a result, the “fight to survive” is necessary so battles wont seem too one-sided when the numbers start adding up.

That is the most illogical argument I have ever read in my entire life. If a thief bursts you down in 3 seconds, do you really think fight to survive will save you? No, unless you are with a big group of people, then it will only delay you running back to the supply camp; and if you are with big group of people and you still die in 3 seconds from one person, then it is obviously a user error. I do not believe Anet input fight to survive because they “built this game so that burst can happen VERY quickly.” If you are getting one shot by someone, what makes you think fight to survive is going to save you? The only thing this is going to do is limit higher skilled players from defeating multiple opponents at once.
“so battles wont seem too one-sided when the numbers start adding up.”
This makes absolutely no sense at all. This makes balance worse. The higher quantity of people have an even greater advantage against the lower quantity, simply because it is more easy for them to revive players. I have no idea what you were thinking when you wrote this.

Actually, the premise of the thread itself is the most illogical argument. It is based on the false notion that, if you have downed someone, you have won and that that “win” is being taken away from you by being able to be revived from a downed state. The fact is, the system doesn’t tell the downed player that he is defeated until he is staked or until his downed state health bar is completely depleted. As such, by definition, your premise that “The only thing this is going to do is limit higher skilled players from defeating multiple opponents at once” is factually incorrect because you have not defeated the player just because you put them in a downed state.

It is also a false argument to argue that this is about balance. Since both sides have the abiltiy to revive someone, whether from a downed state or from full defeat, it is, by definition, balanced. You cannot argue that larger forces have an unfair advantage because they have an easier time of reviving people due to numbers because those same numbers mean they have an easier time downing people and and easier time defeating someone in a downed state. Those same numbers make it harder for a small group to down someone or to finish them. In fact, if anything, a smaller force having the ability to get someone up who was overwhelmed by larger numbers helps the smaller force far more than it does the larger.

The complaint is moot because the argument is based on a false premise.

@Kneemin

Mist form is still an interrupt. If you are in an open field, and you are getting finished, just mist form. How is that worse then any other interrupt? Sure you will get a downed state penality, but not like it change anything. If you gonna get downed twice in 1 min, you deserve to die.

My rally exemple was, you are downed, you are dying. You see an ennemy downed getting killed far away. Port to him with vapor, and hit him.

You might think it’s very situational, and it is. But it still one more option then most class have. Not counting running behind your keep door or behind your zerg.

And I’m not sure, but I never saw any difference between finishing a tank or a glass cannon in down state. Does it really take in account our stats? Can somoene confirm it?

Stiv.1820:

I was more talking about the skill involved in reviving. He said some groups are “better at reviving” which amounts to moving to point X (perhaps casting a field or stability) and hitting F.

I don’t think there’s much skill in it either apart from any skill a team might have in generally protecting their teammates to begin with. I would be more impressed with the skill of the team that has no one in the downed state, as I’ve seen so many rambos in a choke point up ahead by themselves raging that no one’s reviving them. I like the idea of the downed state in that it brings a group further then a gimmick sequence to pull of a win, but it really should only have a generic version of Thrill of the Crime or something similar to it, just a slight boon to your group.