Guild Wars 2

Ignore this one too. Just page turning.

I absolutely love right after they do ban sweeps for botting
the tears of “innocent” players are so tasty~

EmoxiHaX.1726:

I absolutely love right after they do ban sweeps for botting
the tears of “innocent” players are so tasty~

Ah very true, but all the wonderful posts that are made after they receive their accounts back are what make me full and satisfied.

As far as suggestions go, this is not a good one. If ArenaNet is committed to fighting bots, they will need to continue to try to implement their system. It is clearly not perfect, but to cease it and roll everything back is counter-productive.

If you are indeed banned for simply playing the game, breaking none of the rules, then you do have my sympathy. I would be upset too, in your shoes. However, suggesting a rollback or halt of the system, from an objective standpoint, is not progressive. I hope they continue to build on it, and improve the precision. I believe manual review is already being done, but the increasing the number of actions an actual human will have to take (i.e. monitoring, tracking) will slow down the process greatly. I doubt it is feasible for the company to employ hundreds of people devoted to this task.

I hope you are not terribly surprised at the tepid response. The majority of those posting about their innocence, are in fact not innocent. Botters will always attempt to get their ban lifted before moving onto a new set of accounts, it’s just efficient. I imagine many say the same things you say. It’s impossible for any of us to make that judgement. A few paragraphs on a thread does not enable me to discern whether you are a victim or a liar. Hopefully the employee reviewing your ticket has the information necessary for that.

In short:
- I hope you do get a fair review for the ticket you submitted.
- If you indeed have been doing the things you claim you have been doing, the unban should be pretty obvious. I’ve yet to see someone try to bot WvW.
- I disagree with your original suggestion. The bans need to continue, and if observed that it is generating some flawed reports, the issue needs to be isolated and addressed. A momentary stop and roll-back is detrimental to the overall health of the game, assuming you do believe bots to be a negative thing.

LFk.1408:

As far as suggestions go, this is not a good one. If ArenaNet is committed to fighting bots, they will need to continue to try to implement their system. It is clearly not perfect, but to cease it and roll everything back is counter-productive.

If you are indeed banned for simply playing the game, breaking none of the rules, then you do have my sympathy. I would be upset too, in your shoes. However, suggesting a rollback or halt of the system, from an objective standpoint, is not progressive. I hope they continue to build on it, and improve the precision. I believe manual review is already being done, but the increasing the number of actions an actual human will have to take (i.e. monitoring, tracking) will slow down the process greatly. I doubt it is feasible for the company to employ hundreds of people devoted to this task.

I hope you are not terribly surprised at the tepid response. The majority of those posting about their innocence, are in fact not innocent. Botters will always attempt to get their ban lifted before moving onto a new set of accounts, it’s just efficient. I imagine many say the same things you say. It’s impossible for any of us to make that judgement. A few paragraphs on a thread does not enable me to discern whether you are a victim or a liar. Hopefully the employee reviewing your ticket has the information necessary for that.

In short:
- I hope you do get a fair review for the ticket you submitted.
- If you indeed have been doing the things you claim you have been doing, the unban should be pretty obvious. I’ve yet to see someone try to bot WvW.
- I disagree with your original suggestion. The bans need to continue, and if observed that it is generating some flawed reports, the issue needs to be isolated and addressed. A momentary stop and roll-back is detrimental to the overall health of the game, assuming you do believe bots to be a negative thing.

The bans need to continue, but not in this form.

Bots are going free because of the mass workload that ban waves give.

It needs to be a trickle effect and also, given my circumstances, I doubt there was manpower used to manually look into my case more than looking at reports.

Thank you for your sympathy. Sad my long weekend has been wasted, but I’ll be getting it back probably mid-next week depending on how many people the support gets through.

I still stand by my suggestion though. Roll it back and redo it the correct way instead of trying to clean up this mass mess.

Sounds like someone got banned for botting and is mad about it.

You don’t wanna get banned, don’t bot. If this is a problem for you then prove you’re not a botter. This isn’t a criminal trial. You aren’t innocent until proven guilty. You’re, like, botter until proven… not-botter. Or something.

Yet again with people assuming every single person who gets banned for bottting actually bots.

I am proving I am not a botter to support, but unfortunately it is taking all of my holiday weekend (Which they don’t work on of course) to actually get unbanned.

I understand this isn’t a criminal trial, but yet again, my suggestion is to make it more accurate before applying it.

As Gaile stated, it is very unlikely for people to get banned twice. Now understand it has been proven that bots have received their accounts back after this mass ban due to the hysteria among ticketting and support to make up for all the people who really did get banned for being in the vicinity of bots but not actually botting.

And yes, that was stated by Gaile as a possibility for people to get “swept up” in the ban wave.

Now. If you actually read some of the posts here, you will find links to these quotes and actually see why I am asking for a roll back.

Bots are being unbanned and are now less likely to get banned again and more likely to get unbanned again because of what is happening verses a system that often works in other games where people who are reported on get manually monitored for macro usage and third party hacking.

The problem with proving I am not a botter is that is has officially wasted my time waiting for all the others, botters or non-botters to be dealt with while a mass ban has been made.

My suggestion is a much cleaner more efficient option that actually gets bots banned and keeps them banned instead of allowing them to be unbanned like they are being now.

You, my good sir, seem to have posted out of bot hatred. Check back on Tuesday or Wednesday on the update I put where I have been unbanned. I have no worries about that, I am just annoyed it is happening to so many people and wasting all of our weekends and still not getting the job done.

This is my personal view, so please no flaming.
But it reminds me of The Shawshank Redemption. Everyone who has been jailed is “innocent”. And yet there was that one guy who was innocent.
The simple fact is this; this sort of game needs a system to take bots out of the game, as bots will destroy the economy & so the game. I won’t deny that people are been banned when they haven’t done anything against the ToCs, but these are what we signed up to when we purchased the license & what we must abide by.
If you are innocent, then you will get your account back & while the time in between will be a major annoyance & possibly quite upsetting, it’s no reason to call for a complete scrapping of any system that is there to remove bots. Any system will be flawed, whether it be humans or automated, as the automated system is written by humans.
& in case anyone asks, I have never had an account banned for botting. In fact the only time I had to fight to get my account back was when in GW1 after i’d been away from the game for a few years & it had been hacked & banned for gold selling. It took a while to get it back, but i waited & got it back.

look guy whining about the banning. youve said theyre unbanning people. so fine just wait. 2 this isnt a democratic system the contract you agreed to pretty much allows anet to sue you if you even play the game. read it if you dont believe me. so they can and will bann whoever they want. and 3 if you are innocent your account will be unbanned and youll have missed very little.

however i suspect anet doesnt bann without reason esspecially not lots of people. otherwise they would have made a post apologizing to the “thousands” of “innocents” thats youre representing. and they havent and they wont. they arent going to tell you how they caught you. they arent that stupid. but i trust them and their decision. please. just stop whining and botting. try playing the game normally its actually pretty fun. and if you make a few friends on here. you wont need to hack or bot.

and if you dont want to do that or cant then get lost the community doesnt need or want cheaters. before you start defending your innocence again tell me what possibly could have caused them to bann your account and not mine?

Toble.2968:

“Your guilty as of now because your banned.”
Aka, you are a murderer because we put you in prison, not because we found hard evidence and have shown it to you. (Martial Law)

What?? You were banned because Anets initial investigation found to have broken the terms and conditions! What has that got to do with martial law?
You’re a currently a banned botter according to ANET and they are the law where GW2 is concerned.

Toble.2968:

“All i can say thank god you are not a judge in any legal system.”

Hinting that Martial Law is the legal system you support since mine is based of proving guilty via evidence before putting someone in prison.

Yet again you are taking a quote of out context and applying your own twisted logic, either the conversation went over your head or you were not following it.

Before you run off on this martial law rubbish.
I do not comply with martial law, where i come from their is such thing as a criminal prosecution service who collate the evidence just like Anet have done, then they pass it on for a judge (ANET) to decide, you were rightfully sentenced banned.

(I comply with the rule of English law, which if you were aware the American legal systems is actually based on the Magna Carta anyway. )

This next bit shows what a drama queen you really are, it also goes to show just how far you will go to twist facts to try prove your point.

You show a picture of a quote from Gaile Gray saying that there is a slim chance some innocent people may be swept up.

Now let’s look at this, you now claim from that statement “ hundreds of people” the very next paragraph you state “ thousands of people” you even claim that “there are people with ticket numbers going well into the 7000s this weekend” where are they I cannot find them???

There is a massive leap from A few – 100`s – 7000`s.

The highest ticket I have seen on the forums is 2387, now that proves absolutely nothing people submit tickets for numerous issues not just because they were caught botting.

Toble.2968:

Don’t get into a quote war with me.

These aren’t twisted words or fact.

You are contradicting yourself.

Read above i have proved numerous times what you say is over exaggerated and more times than not twisted , you make accusations claimed on bias constantly and you are the one who has been banned for botting.
Credibility much i don’t think so.

You tell me to educate my self may be your collage should be doing a better job teaching you how to analyze data.

False claim`s that ANET are unjustly banning over 7000 people for botting with out instigation is ridiculous , why don’t you just do the right thing and accept your ban and move on to another game we do not need bots like you in our gaming here.

DjC.7039:

This is my personal view, so please no flaming.
But it reminds me of The Shawshank Redemption. Everyone who has been jailed is “innocent”. And yet there was that one guy who was innocent.
The simple fact is this; this sort of game needs a system to take bots out of the game, as bots will destroy the economy & so the game. I won’t deny that people are been banned when they haven’t done anything against the ToCs, but these are what we signed up to when we purchased the license & what we must abide by.
If you are innocent, then you will get your account back & while the time in between will be a major annoyance & possibly quite upsetting, it’s no reason to call for a complete scrapping of any system that is there to remove bots. Any system will be flawed, whether it be humans or automated, as the automated system is written by humans.
& in case anyone asks, I have never had an account banned for botting. In fact the only time I had to fight to get my account back was when in GW1 after i’d been away from the game for a few years & it had been hacked & banned for gold selling. It took a while to get it back, but i waited & got it back.

En mass, ban waves have caused:

-Trouble for support ticketing.

-Many innocents (from the number of unbans) to be banned by association (Refer to the moderator post I had screenshotted earlier)

-Bots to be unbanned (As mentioned earlier as well) which means, as Gaile had mentioned that they have less of a chance of being banned again.

I am not saying get rid of a banning system, I am suggesting a system that does indeed work for other games without as much trouble as a wave ban. It’s not a complete scarping, I am saying roll back the wave and redo the banning process so the innocents go free and the bots do not.

The company simply can not investigate the “Thousands of bots”-Gaile they have banned effectively in but one weekend. If you think they really have the manpower to do that, great, but as we know, it is a holiday weekend, and on Tuesday, there is going to be a very large back up of tickets from innocent people and botters alike and the team will be overwhelmed and mistakes will be made in order to make the process more expeditious.

If in fact they did look into it all personally after the fact, of course botters will have turned their bots off and wiped their computers and they will look no different from the innocents.

So do the personal investigation of macro patterns and game input before banning and less work will have to be done with more happy players and less bots in game.

It is a win-win for everyone.

While I agree that people who bot come crying to the forums claiming they do not bot (pretty obvious) I will say that if I was a GM and was monitoring a bunch of bots farming an area that had known drop rates for tier 6 drops for Legendary itemization and seen real players mixed up in there just following the bots trying to tag every mob the bot army was tagging, then I would think that they were a bot also.

So its pretty obvious that, in this sceanrio, some innocent players will get hit accidently, I will leave that judgement call up to the masses.

Taemek.1602:

While I agree that people who bot come crying to the forums claiming they do not bot (pretty obvious) I will say that if I was a GM and was monitoring a bunch of bots farming an area that had known drop rates for tier 6 drops for Legendary itemization and seen real players mixed up in there just following the bots trying to tag every mob the bot army was tagging, then I would think that they were a bot also.

So its pretty obvious that, in this sceanrio, some innocent players will get hit accidently, I will leave that judgement call up to the masses.

The problem is, there are ways to check, like monitoring macro patterns and input into the game client. These are the only ways to be sure.

These checks were not used before banning people who appeared to be botting, and this causes and influx of tickets and stress for the support ticketers and mods and for innocents to lose their weekend and bots to go free due to the speeds at which tickets have to be handled.

Then again, as I have found out, not only me but several others were PvPing and running dungeons when banned and were not in any zone near any bots at the time of ban. These bans are extra unexplainable and seem to stem off of report bulk alone.

I am simply suggesting a solution many other games successfully use that wont hurt arena net or the players as much as ban-wave does.

poe lyfe.5879:

look guy whining about the banning. youve said theyre unbanning people. so fine just wait. 2 this isnt a democratic system the contract you agreed to pretty much allows anet to sue you if you even play the game. read it if you dont believe me. so they can and will bann whoever they want. and 3 if you are innocent your account will be unbanned and youll have missed very little.

however i suspect anet doesnt bann without reason esspecially not lots of people. otherwise they would have made a post apologizing to the “thousands” of “innocents” thats youre representing. and they havent and they wont. they arent going to tell you how they caught you. they arent that stupid. but i trust them and their decision. please. just stop whining and botting. try playing the game normally its actually pretty fun. and if you make a few friends on here. you wont need to hack or bot.

and if you dont want to do that or cant then get lost the community doesnt need or want cheaters. before you start defending your innocence again tell me what possibly could have caused them to bann your account and not mine?

You seem pretty aggressive. I am just going to repeat what I said in other posts. This is a suggestion for them to improve their system.

Hundreds of people being unbanned, which means hundreds of people got banned for no reason, please refer to the associated screen shot.

No one needs to hack or bot in this game. The bots ruining the economy are the ones turning a profit from it in real life. They wont be putting in more than a support ticket of effort over this because professional bot systems factor in the chance for loss of account and aim to make more money per account than the account was worth, so they have probably planned for this, that is just how the botting business goes.

Normal people who bot or macro either

a) don’t know macros are bannable and think having an fffff macro to spam pick up is okay.

b) Are way to lazy to spend a week levelling and decide to bot it instead even though this game takes such minimal effort to level in.

I hate cheaters, hackers and especially hate botters because that means items I pick up are devalued very fast and since I do not farm, it is harder for me as a player to make money regularly.

That doesn’t mean a ban wave where people can get “Swept up” is the rigth way to go.

Mind you I have mentioned several times, with the mass ticketting support has to deal with, bots are going free and are now less likely to be caught again. You can trust in the system all you want, that is your opinion, but this is MY opinion thread making a suggestion.

All you people are just arguing against a simple suggestion to change the system and use it more effectively, not to mention to give people back their weekend, which is already mostly over anyways.

Basically you are arguing for a system that let’s bots go right now.

kistell.5684:

Toble.2968:

“Your guilty as of now because your banned.”
Aka, you are a murderer because we put you in prison, not because we found hard evidence and have shown it to you. (Martial Law)

What?? You were banned because Anets initial investigation found to have broken the terms and conditions! What has that got to do with martial law?
You’re a currently a banned botter according to ANET and they are the law where GW2 is concerned.

Toble.2968:

“All i can say thank god you are not a judge in any legal system.”

Hinting that Martial Law is the legal system you support since mine is based of proving guilty via evidence before putting someone in prison.

Yet again you are taking a quote of out context and applying your own twisted logic, either the conversation went over your head or you were not following it.

Before you run off on this martial law rubbish.
I do not comply with martial law, where i come from their is such thing as a criminal prosecution service who collate the evidence just like Anet have done, then they pass it on for a judge (ANET) to decide, you were rightfully sentenced banned.

(I comply with the rule of English law, which if you were aware the American legal systems is actually based on the Magna Carta anyway. )

This next bit shows what a drama queen you really are, it also goes to show just how far you will go to twist facts to try prove your point.

You show a picture of a quote from Gaile Gray saying that there is a slim chance some innocent people may be swept up.

Now let’s look at this, you now claim from that statement “ hundreds of people” the very next paragraph you state “ thousands of people” you even claim that “there are people with ticket numbers going well into the 7000s this weekend” where are they I cannot find them???

There is a massive leap from A few – 100`s – 7000`s.

The highest ticket I have seen on the forums is 2387, now that proves absolutely nothing people submit tickets for numerous issues not just because they were caught botting.

Toble.2968:

Don’t get into a quote war with me.

These aren’t twisted words or fact.

You are contradicting yourself.

Read above i have proved numerous times what you say is over exaggerated and more times than not twisted , you make accusations claimed on bias constantly and you are the one who has been banned for botting.
Credibility much i don’t think so.

You tell me to educate my self may be your collage should be doing a better job teaching you how to analyze data.

False claim`s that ANET are unjustly banning over 7000 people for botting with out instigation is ridiculous , why don’t you just do the right thing and accept your ban and move on to another game we do not need bots like you in our gaming here.

:) I’m surprised you had the gall to come back after that last post of mine. I’ll try to keep this one short since it is just that easy for me after what you have just said.

*There was no initial investigation for some people.

http://oi48.tinypic.com/2ijlz5f.jpg

Martial Law = ban lots of people and unbar the ones who we find are innocent later.

Ticket # 121110-002927

*3000 tickets yesterday alone in just the account issues category.(Thousands)

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/account/Blocked-suspended-terminated-Players-comments/page/23

You can find these numbers here and in the account issues section if you wish to count. I’ve been there for the last 3 days or so, hundreds of complaints and over a hundred unbanned (Verbally saying so) so far. (Hundreds)

*You spelled college wrong. Maybe you should go to one. I’m sorry, I tried not to mention your spelling but that one was just too good. Educate yourself.

*And I never said they are unjustly banning over 7000 people. I said there were well over 7000 tickets, go spend more of your time searching for a quote will ya?

Also, do you really want me moving to another game after I mail you my ticket saying “We unbanned you”? (Please stop while you are ahead, you look really silly right now and will look even sillier when my unbar comes in.)

So you want everyone banned innocent or not moving to another game. Great community leader here. Tried to keep it short so you can get your facts straight. You still don’t realize you are rooting for a system that is letting bots go more than the system I am proposing. I thought you hated them?

So far I have moderator quotes, numbers of people based on forum numbers. What kind of opinions do you have to offer me now?

Ill disregard every thing else you say as its all waffle and rubbish as always.
but lets looks at your facts again.

Toble.2968:

*There was no initial investigation for some people.

http://oi48.tinypic.com/2ijlz5f.jpg

Where in that post does Gaile state that no initial investigation was made ?
Once again your twisting facts , also once again as already proved previously you are a liar.

Toble.2968:

Ticket # 121110-002927

*3000 tickets yesterday alone in just the account issues category.(Thousands)

*And I never said they are unjustly banning over 7000 people. I said there were well over 7000 tickets, go spend more of your time searching for a quote will ya?

so you show me ticket number 2927 then you go on to claim their are over 7000 tickets ??

even if the total number of tickets submitted were 2927 , where is your evidence they relate to wrongful bans and not other game\ account issues?

logic is some thing you don’t grasp very well do you!!!
learn to count or bot you seem good at that.

kistell.5684:

Toble.2968:

Ticket # 121110-002927

*3000 tickets yesterday alone in just the account issues category.(Thousands)

*And I never said they are unjustly banning over 7000 people. I said there were well over 7000 tickets, go spend more of your time searching for a quote will ya?

so you show me ticket number 2927 then you go on to claim their are over 7000 tickets ??

logic!!! i fail to see yours , learn to count or bot you seem good at that.

You came back for more? It’s clear you aren’t actually READING the link I gave you.

“Triagon.1843
#121107-002037”

2037 on the 7th at least.

“karrak.3597
121109-002852. "

“Chippalrus-5437
121108-001970”

1970 on the 8th at least.

2852 at least on the 9th

“Dime Baggins.1058
Ticket # 121110-002927”

2652 at least on the 10th

Now, I didn’t look very hard to find these at all so I am sure there are more and higher numbers from those who haven’t spoken up in that particular thread.

All these ticket numbers were found in https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/account/Blocked-suspended-terminated-Players-comments/page/21

For factual reference.

Would you like to stop now?

kistell.5684:

Ill disregard every thing else you say as its all waffle and rubbish as always.
but lets looks at your facts again.

Toble.2968:

Ticket # 121110-002927

*3000 tickets yesterday alone in just the account issues category.(Thousands)

*And I never said they are unjustly banning over 7000 people. I said there were well over 7000 tickets, go spend more of your time searching for a quote will ya?

so you show me ticket number 2927 then you go on to claim their are over 7000 tickets ??

even if the total number of tickets submitted were 2927 , where is your evidence they relate to wrongful bans and not other game\ account issues?

logic is some thing you don’t grasp very well do you!!!
learn to count or bot you seem good at that.

Also, even if they aren’t pertaining to wrongful bans, what I mentioned was support has over 7000 tickets to deal with, did I not?

Not to mention, even if only a quarter of them were about the banning issues, it would still be in the thousands, as I said before.

Please, educate yourself or stop talking.

Toble.2968:

I said there were well over 7000 tickets, go spend more of your time searching for a quote will ya?

still don’t see 7000+ tickets you claim?

According to you 2652 at least on the 10th , little confused are you.

A quarter of them would be 663 so no not in the 1000`s , sorry your wrong try again.

kistell.5684:

Toble.2968:

I said there were well over 7000 tickets, go spend more of your time searching for a quote will ya?

still don’t see 7000+ tickets you claim?

According to you 2652 at least on the 10th , little confused are you.

If there are 2600 on one day, 2900 on another say 1900 on another day and then another 2000 on another say, that’s 9400 at least. Now, Imagine support getting through all those tickets in four days in investigating people’s accounts. If you want to argue how accurate the estimate of 7000 is, The ban waves have been happening since the 6th and my number on the 8th was in the 500s. My ticket has yet to be looked at on the 11th.

Now where are your facts that the estimated number could not possibly be 7000 and why are you even arguing this? What is your reasoning being arguing against me anymore?

kistell.5684:

Toble.2968:

I said there were well over 7000 tickets, go spend more of your time searching for a quote will ya?

still don’t see 7000+ tickets you claim?

According to you 2652 at least on the 10th , little confused are you.

A quarter of them would be 663 so no not in the 1000`s , sorry your wrong try again.

Also, remember I said 7000 tickets, not 7000 innocent sure to be unbanned tickets.

The fact stands, support has a ton of tickets to go through and has begun making errors and unbanning bots.

For some reason, you have become so angry at me that you have lost sight of the point of all of this, I am simply suggesting a system that goes slower, does not ban in waves and will do it right the first time instead of sending the problem to support in the form of probably about 15,000 tickets every week.

Mind you, that is 15,000 individual accounts to be investigated for whatever reason. Let’s go back to the math.

Even if there were 20 people working on support, they would have to go through 19 reports an hour to get that workload completed on a 40 hour work week and it is a holiday weekend, meaning no one is working sunday and monday.

Seriously. How can you be so blind in the face of something that simply makes sense?

BTW 15000 is rounding down.

There are 3 categories of tickets to look through. Each category has it’s own set of ticketing numbers. I am just using one, the login issues category with rounded 2500 tickets every day for 7 days, which is 17,500. So I am rounding WAY down, and you still don’t understand what I am saying here. More accurately, if I didn’t try to dumb it down for you,

2500 × 7 = 17500 tickets being made this week.

17500 Divided among 20 people = 875 tickets

A full work week is 40 hours, but mind you this is a holiday weekend no one is working on Sunday or monday.

So between last tuesday and this tuesday: 40/7= rounded 6 hours per day.

Tuesday= 6 hours per person: tuesday wednesday thursday friday saturday = 5: 5×6=30

875 tickets divided by 30 hours per this week per person= rounded 30 tickets per hour.

It clearly does not take 2 minutes to investigate someone who is botting so this is clearly impossible to do accurately without having a giant amount of workload.

Which is why ban waves are in fact bad and inaccurate since bots are being unbanned via ticketing.

Do you have any other opinions you would like to present to me because you are frustrated?

Toble.2968:

If there are 2600 on one day, 2900 on another say 1900 on another day and then another 2000 on another say, that’s 9400 at least.

If you want to argue how accurate the estimate of 7000 is, The ban waves have been happening since the 6th and my number on the 8th was in the 500s. My ticket has yet to be looked at on the 11th.

Now where are your facts that the estimated number could not possibly be 7000

1st The thread you suggested i look at is over 2 months old.

2nd the only credible way we as customers have of estimating a round about figure is to look at the ticket number of tickets posted on the forums, to gauge a round figure.

Now for all i know the ticket numbers have never been reset so the highest ticket number you provided 2652 is total tickets sent since release.

As for saying “Now where are your facts that the estimated number could not possibly be 7000”

This number is pulled from thin air their is nothing to dispute, you made it up.

While you keep producing figures from thin air and make it all up their is nothing to prove your full of hot air.

So coming to a suggestion board and asking them to pull the plug on banning bots as they got it wrong based on figures your pulling from your kitten is ridiculous.

kistell.5684:

Toble.2968:

If there are 2600 on one day, 2900 on another say 1900 on another day and then another 2000 on another say, that’s 9400 at least.

If you want to argue how accurate the estimate of 7000 is, The ban waves have been happening since the 6th and my number on the 8th was in the 500s. My ticket has yet to be looked at on the 11th.

Now where are your facts that the estimated number could not possibly be 7000

1st The thread you suggested i look at is over 2 months old.

2nd the only credible way we as customers have of estimating a round about figure is to look at the ticket number of tickets posted on the forums, to gauge a round figure.

Now for all i know the ticket numbers have never been reset so the highest ticket number you provided 2652 is total tickets sent since release.

As for saying “Now where are your facts that the estimated number could not possibly be 7000”

This number is pulled from thin air their is nothing to dispute, you made it up.

While you keep producing figures from thin air and make it all up their is nothing to prove your full of hot air.

So coming to a suggestion board and asking them to pull the plug on banning bots as they got it wrong based on figures your pulling from your kitten is ridiculous.

16 out of 25 pages are relevant to the last 4 days.

The ticket numbers I gave you are relevant, notice the respective dates.

This is not thin air. Thin air is what you must be inhaling if you think it is fabricated. That is just one thread of many made. Just one, not to mention those who haven’t posted on forums and simply sent in a ticket.

I just did the math for you based on ticket numbers relevant to the dates of the ban waves. The age of the thread proves nothing.

And I didn’t come to the suggestion board telling them to pull the plug on banning bots. Did you not even read my first post?

Stop the ban waves, roll them back and investigate thoroughly and ban the actual bots instead of trying to deal with ticketing and accidentally unbanning actual bots.

Why are you even still here?

kistell.5684:

So coming to a suggestion board and asking them to pull the plug on banning bots as they got it wrong based on figures your pulling from your kitten is ridiculous.

Also why do you care so much? Why are you yelling and huffing at a mere suggestion that they improve upon a system that is currently unbanning bots?

Are you botting?

what they need to do is have this automated system flag bots then have the humans review personally and then ban.

But isnt it odd that they are using bots to ban bots?

Cichard.6108:

what they need to do is have this automated system flag bots then have the humans review personally and then ban.

But isnt it odd that they are using bots to ban bots?

That is funny, and that is exactly what I am saying here, thanks for putting it in simple terms.

Automated system to flag and individual review of those flagged repeatedly.

The irony. Bots banning bots. How cruel!

No you still don’t get it you have provided no hard numbers to work with every thing is hypothetical from your brain.
All your calculations are based on numbers your making up.

You based your complain on the fact their system is clearly not working and suggested they roll it back as such.
But yet all your claims to substantiate the fact it is not working are based on spurious numbers your guessing wildly at and making up.

Your numbers are flawed (made up) and thus your maths is seriously flawed , thus the crux of your argument is flawed also.

You cannot claim ANET has it wrong if you don’t have the data to prove such, nothing is ever 100% and claiming that a system is flawed as it is not 100% proficient is pretty naive.

May be you need to go back to hello kitty

kistell.5684:

No you still don’t get it you have provided no hard numbers to work with every thing is hypothetical from your brain.
All your calculations are based on numbers your making up.

You based your complain on the fact their system is clearly not working and suggested they roll it back as such.
But yet all your claims to substantiate the fact it is not working are based on spurious numbers your guessing wildly at and making up.

Your numbers are flawed (made up) and thus your maths is seriously flawed , thus the crux of your argument is flawed also.

You cannot claim ANET has it wrong if you don’t have the data to prove such, nothing is ever 100% and claiming that a system is flawed as it is not 100% proficient is pretty naive.

May be you need to go back to hello kitty

You are boring me now.

“Triagon.1843
#121107-002037”

2037 on the 7th at least.

“Chippalrus-5437
121108-001970”

1970 on the 8th at least.

“karrak.3597
121109-002852. "

2852 at least on the 9th

“Dime Baggins.1058
Ticket # 121110-002927”

2652 at least on the 10th

All these ticket numbers were found in https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/account/Blocked-suspended-terminated-Players-comments/page/21

Completely fabricated numbers.

-Yawn- Get new material.

Toble.2968:

kistell.5684:

No you still don’t get it you have provided no hard numbers to work with every thing is hypothetical from your brain.
All your calculations are based on numbers your making up.

You based your complain on the fact their system is clearly not working and suggested they roll it back as such.
But yet all your claims to substantiate the fact it is not working are based on spurious numbers your guessing wildly at and making up.

Your numbers are flawed (made up) and thus your maths is seriously flawed , thus the crux of your argument is flawed also.

You cannot claim ANET has it wrong if you don’t have the data to prove such, nothing is ever 100% and claiming that a system is flawed as it is not 100% proficient is pretty naive.

May be you need to go back to hello kitty

You are boring me now.

“Triagon.1843
#121107-002037”

2037 on the 7th at least.

“Chippalrus-5437
121108-001970”

1970 on the 8th at least.

“karrak.3597
121109-002852. "

2852 at least on the 9th

“Dime Baggins.1058
Ticket # 121110-002927”

2652 at least on the 10th

All these ticket numbers were found in https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/account/Blocked-suspended-terminated-Players-comments/page/21

Completely fabricated numbers.

-Yawn- Get new material.

Where is ticket number 3000+ , 4000+, 5000+ , 6000+, 7000+

???

According to you they exist or must exist?

kistell.5684:

Toble.2968:

kistell.5684:

No you still don’t get it you have provided no hard numbers to work with every thing is hypothetical from your brain.
All your calculations are based on numbers your making up.

You based your complain on the fact their system is clearly not working and suggested they roll it back as such.
But yet all your claims to substantiate the fact it is not working are based on spurious numbers your guessing wildly at and making up.

Your numbers are flawed (made up) and thus your maths is seriously flawed , thus the crux of your argument is flawed also.

You cannot claim ANET has it wrong if you don’t have the data to prove such, nothing is ever 100% and claiming that a system is flawed as it is not 100% proficient is pretty naive.

May be you need to go back to hello kitty

You are boring me now.

“Triagon.1843
#121107-002037”

2037 on the 7th at least.

“Chippalrus-5437
121108-001970”

1970 on the 8th at least.

“karrak.3597
121109-002852. "

2852 at least on the 9th

“Dime Baggins.1058
Ticket # 121110-002927”

2652 at least on the 10th

All these ticket numbers were found in https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/account/Blocked-suspended-terminated-Players-comments/page/21

Completely fabricated numbers.

-Yawn- Get new material.

Where is ticket number 3000+ , 4000+, 5000+ , 6000+, 7000+

???

According to you they exist or must exist?

I repeat, there are three ticket sections, I have found an average of 2500 per day in just one of them.

You think that 2500×3 /=/ 7500?

Not to mention this is per day, I was simply meaning in the account login section over the course of a holiday weekend backup. this is my ticket number from 2 days ago.

121109-000269

They have yet to review it which means there is an obvious backlog of tickets, meaning they do not get 2500 tickets done every day. Meaning there are at least 2 days worth of tickets backlogged and more come in every day for just one of the 3 ticketing sections.

What is wrong with you? Yet again, are you a bot?

What is the point of arguing with me?

You cannot work a moving average out from just 1 or 2 day`s so……..

So show me proof of how you worked out your average for 2500 per day.

Provide me actual ticked numbers and sources ,
As to how was your moving average achieved?
How many days did you take in to account to come to this moving average of 2500 tickets per day.

You cannot and you know why your making numbers up, You have no credible evidence to support the daily average you claim.

No doubt you will avoid my question and point to some thread , giving no actual substance your claim.

So answer me the following 3 simple questions.

1. How was your moving average achieved?
2. How many days did you take in to account to come to this average of 2500 tickets per day?
3. Provide me an actual source including ticket listing , that can be used to show that an average of 2500 tickets per day are being submitted.

1.

“Triagon.1843

#121107-002037”

2037 on the 7th at least.

“Chippalrus-5437
121108-001970”

1970 on the 8th at least.

“karrak.3597
121109-002852. "

2852 at least on the 9th

“Dime Baggins.1058
Ticket # 121110-002927”

2652 at least on the 10th

All these ticket numbers were found in https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/account/Blocked-suspended-terminated-Players-comments/page/21

2037+1970+2927+2852=

Divided by 4 days = 2446.5 tickets per day.

2.

I took into account the 4 days since the ban wave has begun.

3.

There you have it and have had it.

I understand you are trying to save yourself from humiliation, but I am at work and have nothing better to do than prove to you mathematically that there is a large influx of tickets on a holiday weekend.

I have all night. If you are trying to restore your pride, stop now. there are over 900 views on this thread and many of them have seen you tell my to get a better college education while using the word “may be” (maybe) my self (myself) and collage (college) in the particular sentence you tried to insult me in.

All of them have also seen you repeatedly ask for numbers when I have given you that link over 5 times, broke down how I found my averages to you 3 times and have posted the list of ticket numbers and days I have used and the thread where you can find them accurately posted in.

Please, you should end it now.

Finally you are actually trying to prove some thing but unfortunately you missed some important factors.

Multiple ticket submissions by the same person, tickets submitted by botters who are falsely claiming to be banned (a very high percentage), tickets cleared by staff per day, Automated clearance of tickets, Tickets not related in any way to banning?

With out factoring all this your maths are flawed.

Even if you figures could be proved far from it , how are the number of tickets submitted correlate to the number of innocent players?

Are you claiming if every single report was intrinsically investigated to a 99.9% chance of true verification that their would not be a big influx of tickets claiming to be false on and around the time of mass ban wave.

You see no matter how you put it you cannot claim they have failed or their antibotting system is flawed going on number of people complaining they are banned.

So you can post all the made up figures you like they will never prove any thing apart from the number of support tickets open , which in its self means zip , nada , nothing zero.

Toble.2968:

I have all night. If you are trying to restore your pride, stop now. there are over 900 views on this thread and many of them have seen you tell my to get a better college education while using the word “may be” (maybe) my self (myself) and collage (college) in the particular sentence you tried to insult me in.

" many of them have seen you tell my (me) to get a better college "

;)

Ill leave you now with this " Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses. "

kistell.5684:

Finally you are actually trying to prove some thing but unfortunately you missed some important factors.

Multiple ticket submissions by the same person, tickets submitted by botters who are falsely claiming to be banned (a very high percentage), tickets cleared by staff per day, Automated clearance of tickets, Tickets not related in any way to banning?

With out factoring all this your maths are flawed.

Even if you figures could be proved far from it , how are the number of tickets submitted correlate to the number of innocent players?

Are you claiming if every single report was intrinsically investigated to a 99.9% chance of true verification that their would not be a big influx of tickets claiming to be false on and around the time of mass ban wave.

You see no matter how you put it you cannot claim they have failed or their antibotting system is flawed going on number of people complaining they are banned.

So you can post all the made up figures you like they will never prove any thing apart from the number of support tickets open , which in its self means zip , nada , nothing zero.

So you admit some reports aren’t always investigated thoroughly because of large numbers of tickets.

All those figures were for was to prove there was a large number of tickets being put in this weekend and a ban wave makes it so they can’t always be thoroughly investigated.

You admitted yourself that bots were bragging about being unbanned by this ticketing system.

So, once again, you are saying keep a system that makes more work for people and unbans true botters in the end.

I grow tired of you being such a potato (thanks Broxy).

kistell.5684:

Toble.2968:

I have all night. If you are trying to restore your pride, stop now. there are over 900 views on this thread and many of them have seen you tell my to get a better college education while using the word “may be” (maybe) my self (myself) and collage (college) in the particular sentence you tried to insult me in.

" many of them have seen you tell my (me) to get a better college "

;)

Ill leave you now with this " Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses. "

If you want to go into detail about errors, a typewritten error or mis-key is much different than blatantly incorrectly spelling the word college.

I’m sorry you made yourself look so bad in these last few days. I hope you cheer up and find something better to do with your time like actually play the game you have been whining about this entire time.

And it is I’ll as in I will, not ill as in sick, if you want to bring it down to mistakes.

I could go all night.

You keep talking as though you know exactly what their bot hunting process is like, which I think is really hurting your argument here. You don’t know how you got flagged for botting – so you can’t say they never looked for behavior patterns. I said this before, but well executed bots can mimic legit player behavior well, and really efficient/fast players can end up mimicking bot behavior. There are players who are obviously human and players who are obviously bots, players who are likely human and players who are likely bots and then there is a group of players and bots which can be tricky to differentiate. This is what usually results in innocents being banned and botters being allowed to go back to playing.

You really don’t know what ANet’s bot hunting process is like. Staff have admitted to a few situations that could get someone unjustly accused of botting, but you can be very sure those are not the only methods they use to flag bots.

ANet has access to better information than we do – they know how the bot hunting process works, they know the exact percentage of bans for botting, they know the exact number of tickets they receive. We don’t – all we have is a couple of staff comments, a couple of forumgoers’ comments and hearsay.

You can’t say to scrap a system you don’t understand just because it fails sometimes. Let me say this again: there is no way to have a bot hunting system that won’t sometimes ban people who weren’t botting and let botters go. Seriously, there is no way. What you’re asking for – a perfect system which never fails ever – doesn’t exist. Keeping the current system is decidedly better than unbanning everyone. A couple of innocents being unjustly banned is decidedly better than thousands of bots ruining in-game economy and feeding real money traders’ business.

The system isn’t bad just because you got unjustly caught up in it. That’s like saying we should ban prisons because sometimes innocents get falsely accused and convicted of things, and that’s unreasonable. Yes, it sucks to be falsely accused of things. But ANet isn’t going to prioritize a few players’ pride over hundreds of thousands of players’ gaming experiences.

I had to delete your quote Neon, the message was too long apparently.

I know this for a fact because I don’t have patterns.

I have to switch attunements and skills based on who is dying and who I am killing. It is never the same.

Also, Gaile admitted that it is possible for someone to be swept up by vicinity. You have seen the screen shot.

I understand those are not the only methods, but as I am suggesting, they need to thoroughly investigate it before banning. The sheer amount of people being unbanned after the fact shows that there was not thorough prior investigation.

I am not saying scrap the system I am saying don’t use it in wave format. They need to investigate bots as they come and handle it so there isn’t a giant problem for non-bitters and support.

And this is not sometimes. Please go to the account issues section, there have been MANY people getting their accounts back after being “Banned for notting” So either they are innocent like me, which I can believe, or Arenanet just unbanned a bot, which is also bad.

So the system is failing all over the place.

- Innocent players are being banned.
- Guilty bots are being unbanned and are more likely to not be banned or unbanned again.
- Support has a giant influx of tickets, making the entire process more difficult.

These are my three main points and mounting a thorough investigation before determining someone is a bot is the suggestion I am sticking with.

And the system is bad.

If it was just me I wouldn’t even be here making this suggestion.

Look at the account issues threads. Dozens, probably more have already had their, what is deemed to be innocent accounts unbanned.

What do you consider a few too many to call it accurate?

Also, as a person who hasn’t been caught up in it, you would not know whether I am telling the truth or not of not being a bot.

If you had never engaged in botting or even in suspicious farming and somehow got banned while in a PvP zone and knew that for a fact, you would wonder how big the flaw is as well, especially when hearing stories from so many similar people.

Also, as I mentioned before, the botters that about money trade system factor in the loss of account and will spend profits to simply buy a new one. they don’t quit forever, they just do it again. In aion, I used to farm these bots for energy to craft things and some of them had the audacity to come back with similar names to their previous bots and bot in exactly the same place after they were banned. The botters that ruin the economy probably don’t care about putting up too much of a stink on forums, they put int heir ticket and hope arenanet makes a mistake on their ticket and gives them back the account, if not, it is no big, they will just be back at it next week. Banning in waves gives these bots plenty of time to farm before the next wave and make a profit enough for another account and then some.

Do you see what I am saying?

There was a quote a while back from a mod, I don’t remember the exact figure so forgive me if it’s wrong, but let’s say it was this: over the course of a week, they banned about 10,000 bots. How many people would they need to thoroughly investigate 10,000 bans? It’s unlikely their bot hunting team has more than a few dozen people at best. It’s unreasonable to expect every single ban to be really thoroughly investigated. I would expect thorough investigation to happen with ban appeals instead – a lot of botters won’t bother to complain and just move on to a new account, so this speeds up the process significantly (as long as the majority of bans are bots, which seems to be the case).

Before you quote “many” you need to look at absolute numbers – go on, count the number of people you can find saying they got their account reinstated. I assure you it won’t be a significant percentage in the face of thousands of weekly bans.

You DID say to scrap the system – your topic’s title clearly says “stop banning and roll back the bans”. That’s scrapping the system.

Of course I don’t know if you’re telling the truth or not – even if I had been banned for botting I still wouldn’t know if you’re telling the truth or not. I’m not sure how that is relevant.

Thoroughly examining each case is what gives bots time to do their thing before they finally get banned. Banning quickly does the exact opposite. Again, you don’t know their ban process – you’re assuming they only ban in periodic sweeps.

And again, the system isn’t bad just because you got unjustly caught up in it. It’s not bad because a few people – in the face of the total number of players – got caught up in it. GW2 has hundreds of thousands of players and tens of thousands of bot bans. A couple dozen or even a couple hundred of people banned unjustly is nothing in the face of those numbers. Could it use improvements? Sure, any system could. It’s not perfect. But it’s not bad either. If 100 people are unfairly banned out of 10,000 – that’s only 1%. That means 99% of the bans are bots. That is actually extremely efficient.

This periodic sweep happened back in October too.

They did this sweep so for the referral week, we wouldn’t be pegged as a game with lots of bots.

And yes, a couple dozen and a couple hundred are all too many when what they should be doing is, in fact, thoroughly investigating people before they are banned.

This is what I believe and it is my suggestion that the amount of people who were banned wrongfully is far too high this time. I also believe because of the nature of my ban something much be highly inaccurate int he system since I am such a far cry from even someone who farms.

That 1% having to actually go throught he banning and unbanning process is what I am trying to avoid.

instead of ruining 100 players weekends, getting a bad reputation for unlawfully banning people and having problems like that, you get get those 99% bots by doing a thorough investigation prior.

Yes it will take longer, but most successful companies use quality over quantity.

To show you what I mean about the games reputation, people have already begun writing the BBB. It may not put a significant dent in anything, but it is a complaint. whether they have been unbanned or not, they still lost their account for what they thought would be an indefinite amount of time and had to go through the process of working to get it back rather than not being banned at all and as paying customers, people, including myself, will become angry.

Bot banning in waves gives just as much time if not more as banning individually.

The serious offenders will have a bot back up within a week and will continue to ruin our economy. these serious offenders will build up until the next large wave in 2-3 weeks.

Instead, I am suggesting Arenanet persistently investigate and ban instead of banning first then scrambling to investigate later.

As I said before. Bots are also being unbanned because they can get away with it since things are so piled up.

In a busy time it is much more likely to let a bot slip through than in a time where they have a bit more wiggle room to check out that botter.

And the stop banning and roll back the bans is for this specific wave since it has caused so much ticketing trouble, not waves before.

And scrapping the system would assume I would want them to revamp reporting and ticketing and all that. I am simply saying, investigate before, not after and more people including support would be much more happy about it.

poe lyfe.5879:

you know these anti bot banning things have never effected me in any game ive ever played? maybe im just really lucky. or maybe i just never use bots. probably because i never use bots.

Also if you are a particularly good player who does “better than any level X should do in Y situation” people tend to report you for hacking.

Sarahphim.1308:

poe lyfe.5879:

you know these anti bot banning things have never effected me in any game ive ever played? maybe im just really lucky. or maybe i just never use bots. probably because i never use bots.

Also if you are a particularly good player who does “better than any level X should do in Y situation” people tend to report you for hacking.

^ This is why. People have been fired over situations like this is you read one of my posts here.

Fired from gaming companies.

So, there you have it.

Something is in fact wrong.