Guild Wars 2

The #5 dagger skill of thief need to have cool down., This is the only answer to make the thief balance., I can accept there lethal damage but i can’t accept even we are so many in the field we can’t still kill the thief bcuz every sec he can hide bcuz of that #5 dagger skill., thief is dangerous in 1 vs 1 not in a group., pls watch this video to see how imbalance the #5 dagger skill thanks., ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-_avGkXNzg )

this belongs in a different area aka theif forum

It’s not a thief balance issue it’s called culling and they are already working on it. Culling makes a delay before you actually see the enemy who’s using stealth reappear. Fight any shadow skelk in the pve zones and you’ll see the same thing. It does the reappear animation poof and then 4-5 seconds later you’ll see him appear and be able to attack him. It’s a problem with the system.

tigirius.9014:

It’s not a thief balance issue it’s called culling and they are already working on it. Culling makes a delay before you actually see the enemy who’s using stealth reappear. Fight any shadow skelk in the pve zones and you’ll see the same thing. It does the reappear animation poof and then 4-5 seconds later you’ll see him appear and be able to attack him. It’s a problem with the system.

Well then we should nerf shadow skelks too! Such an OP mob.

tigirius.9014:

It’s not a thief balance issue it’s called culling and they are already working on it. Culling makes a delay before you actually see the enemy who’s using stealth reappear. Fight any shadow skelk in the pve zones and you’ll see the same thing. It does the reappear animation poof and then 4-5 seconds later you’ll see him appear and be able to attack him. It’s a problem with the system.

you can usually tab target them as soon as that animation poofs.

The #5 dager skill pf thief need to have longer cool down., This is the only answer to make the thief balance., I can accept there lethal damage but i can’t accept even we are so many in the field we can’t still kill the thief bcuz every sec he can hide bcuz of that #5 dager skill., thief is dangerus in 1 vs 1 not in a group., pls watch this video to see how imbalance the #5 dager skill thanks

Dagger, not dager.. Dangerous not dangerus.. because, not bcuz.

IF you want people to understand you point and take you seriously, try harder.

Thief weapon skills don’t have cooldowns, they use a resource called initiative.

Most people seem to have achieved little to no frame rate boost from the culling engine changes, so we have to wonder what was the point? Major issues in exchange for an extra frame or two to ones frame rate hardly seems worth it.

Ok dagger.. Ok dangerous., Ok because., sorry I’m using (SMS) but i think u can understand that., i think somtimes u use ur phone 4 txt right? But this is not d issue here., the issue is the #5 dagger skill is that right bro the spell? Ok., i gave u a vission what if the #5 dagger skill have a longer cool down and his/her skill are use and still CD i think thats the time we can kill the thief right? This is the best solution to make thief vurnerable and thats the perfect time to lunch ur combo isn’t it?

Thats why im asking just the #5 dagger skill if they can put a longer cool down for that so that its not anoying and you have the chance to kill the thief., and he/she can’t do the every 2sec hide..

Thief already has a 3 sec revealed debuff.

Thief is always vulnerable, yes even in stealth. They take damage and can die in stealth, they’re not immortal, in fact they’re very squishy.

The #5 dagger skill can be dodged, just like every other skill in the game. If you dodge C&D you’ve just made the thief waste half their initiative.

I’m sorry thieves annoy you, but that’s hardly a reason to demand nerfs. Mesmers annoy me too, but you won’t find me demanding they nerf clones. How about you do the mature thing and read up on how to counter a thief instead?

jan why don’t you try playing thief and see how hard to control her.. before you complain! Like LOCO said, I am also annoyed dealing with a mesmer. Why not nerf her illusion and give players a hint if which one is which? Why not nerf guardian because his so tough? Why not nerf ele because her spells is so powerful? And so on.. shheeesh….

BTW: Thief skills doesn’t have cd just to let you know.

Nothing much more than trolling going on here, move along.

@Nidrice.7328 can u understand me? thats why im asking to put CD even just the #5 dagger skill… you see you are annoyed to mesmer so you feel it? cuz only mesmer can make a lot of waste of your skill do you think some class dont feel that too? when u disapear some of other skill class just waste bcuz of that #5 dagger skill… by the way if you say its hard to control thief im going to say, u dont play ur thief properly.. pls watch the link that i put so you know how to use it. Nice one mesmer hope all class have clone like mesmer so thief will annoyed too… Im going to say you guyz saying that bcuz u rolling a thief. hope you try another class and feel the anoying thing. by the way thanks to all reply here all I want is to make the game balance! hope you guyz watch the video that i put so u can understand that!.. i can accept if the guardian can survive in a lot of player, but thief? its funny thief just playing those other class bcuz of that #5 dagger skill… look the video pls..

Thieves use a resource called “Initiative”. You get 12 to start with, 15 if traited for it. You slowly recharge your initiative as combat goes on. The #5 dagger skill “Cloak and Dagger” requires the thief to hit you before they can go invisible (first weakness). It costs a large chunk of initiative (second weakness) and unless the thief is specced into a lot of extra init-regen (via both traits and signets) – they aren’t very harmful – more of a nuisance. Additionally, any attacks made from stealth trigger the “revealed” debuff which lasts several seconds, and prevents the thief from re-stealthing (3rd weakness). If graphics culling is an issue with this, it is not the fault of the thief, and they shouldn’t be punished/nerfed for it.

If they are built for burst however, it’s not a matter of putting a cooldown on the skill, as they will usually down you quickly while only ever having to go into stealth once. This doesn’t even take into account that Dagger #5 is only ONE way that you can get into stealth. There are a handful of other ways to do so, and you can have all of them available at the same time for the most part.

One of the “unique class mechanics” that ANet gave us was “no cooldown on weapon skills because they use initiative”. To put it on “even just one skill, the #5 dagger skill” would be offensive to thieves as a whole, and completely destroys/invalidates the concept of the class design. This is the most straight forward answer for why you will never see a cooldown on the skill.

I think you guys have been trolled.

Typical thief whine topic. I do get people get mad over this build at the moment, because the thief is invisible 80% of the time due to the culling bug, but the opponents in this vid are mostly bad. Use AoE, daze, cripple, CC and knock him out of his shadow refuge and try to track him down with the clouds that appear on leaving stealth. This way you will be able to down him.

Personally I prefer burst builds over this rather boring build, because people will at least be able to see me, which makes the fights more interesting, but whenever I face such a thief I pull him towards some mob and use his own weapon against him. Use CnD on the mobs to stealth as much as possible, so that he won’t be able to Sneak Attack on you and when he’s visible burst him down with your backstab combo – there goes his superiority. Gotta say I’m quite successfull with this strategy, but then again you gotta be a thief, if not well then yeah… use the tips from above and really don’t stand crowded, otherwise it’ll be easy for him to land the CnD.

“Anyone who disagree to this im going to ask u if all class have there #5 skill cool down like this what u gonna feel? Think about it..,?
Jaque Yatz 2 days ago”

This was posted on the Youtube video’s comments.

Someone’s been mad for more than two days.

I find it hilarious that threads like this not only are allowed to stay open, but are moved to the thief section (which means a moderator has already viewed the thread). If this were any other class’s section, this thread would have been removed already. Nothing constructive was said in the OP. Simply someone who got stomped complaining about Thief, as always.

Response to the OP (To the title mainly):

“No, it doesn´t.”

@Krathalos.3461 paste here if jaque says OP there in his/her comment. And for me it doesn’t matter if thief have so much power I can accept that. but what i can’t accept I say this for many times bro. How can you kill a thief if every sec he/she hide. nobody can understand me here why cuz admin put this issue to thief section. so means all people who read this are using thief. try to ask a lot of player there what is there experience if they face a thief that every sec hide. there is no problem on the system the problem is that #5 dagger skill. bcuz after all punishment do by thief he/she need to become visible for the chance of other class. but this is not happen bcuz of that #5 dagger skill ( if you know how to use it properly ) by the way thanks for response. Good day. this issue dont want to stay open because this is the true if they make the #5 dagger skill have CD other class have chance to down and see a thief that hide every 2 -3 sec. thanks

And a removal of queing all Thief Skills unless you ctrl+alt them to make them que.

Also, Stealth skills should not be usable with the reveal de-buff on. (they should be darkened out until the buff goes away, this adds a cool-down and fixes the weapon/utility skills to only be used when they benefit the thief.

Why don’t they just remove stealth all together? I mean without it thieves are still OP right? I mean we have the highest HP pool and we wear extra heavy armor.

We should just make C&D cost 15 initiative and take away the sneak attack damage bonus.

People in that video are horrendous and thief is not OP. I mean really, watch the 2nd fight that guardian literally stands there and lets the thief kill him…lolwut? Bot much?

brandon.6735:

Why don’t they just remove stealth all together? I mean without it thieves are still OP right? I mean we have the highest HP pool and we wear extra heavy armor.

Better yet, whenever a thief uses a skill that stealths or perform a stealth combo, the stealth will be delayed and a dialog-box would be given to every opponent in the vicinity, let’s say… 4500 radius…

“An enemy thief is trying to stealth near you… Would you be so gentle to allow it?”
- YES
- NO
- NO, and insta-kill him for his audacity.

Even so, players would still whine about the #3 button not being big enough.

Sounds like someone died to a thief in WvW and decided to come whine on the forums without understanding any of their mechanics at all. Classic <insertclasshere> destroyed me, must be OP

PS Revealed debuff
PPS They still take damage while stealthed. AoE or spam 1. Your 1 chain will progress if you are hitting them

Guyz listen., I dont care if thief are lethal and strong., even if thief kill me on WvsW it should be happen., but what i care here is after all the lethal strike after he/she use all there skill he/she need to be visible to give other class (ur party or allie ) chance to throw there skill right? But this is not happen bcuz of that # 5 dagger skill., he/she can hide every 2-3 sec bcuz of that #5 dagger skill.,

Remember thief is lethal on 1 vs 1 not in 1 vs group! 1 vs 2 its okay but 1 vs 3 and up its not good., thats what im trying to say here., its not balance bcuz thief can just play arround them using that # 5 dagger skill how insult is that? 1 vs 4 1 vs 3 still u cant stop thief bcuz 2-3 sec he/she can hide

If you’re mobile than the thief and they stealth, you should be able to kill them anyways. If the thief is more mobile than you are, you aren’t going to be able to catch them regardless of stealth.

So why are you blaming thief stealth for your failure to kill the thief instead of thief mobility?

Tulisin.6945:

If you’re mobile than the thief and they stealth, you should be able to kill them anyways. If the thief is more mobile than you are, you aren’t going to be able to catch them regardless of stealth.

So why are you blaming thief stealth for your failure to kill the thief instead of thief mobility?

Thieves have weak mobility compared to Greatsword/Sword Warrior, D/D Elementalist.

Daecollo.9578:

Tulisin.6945:

If you’re mobile than the thief and they stealth, you should be able to kill them anyways. If the thief is more mobile than you are, you aren’t going to be able to catch them regardless of stealth.

So why are you blaming thief stealth for your failure to kill the thief instead of thief mobility?

Thieves have weak mobility compared to Greatsword/Sword Warrior, D/D Elementalist.

The average thief has mobility on par with another profession’s heavy mobility spec. The average Greatsword/Sword warrior or D/D elementalist cannot keep up with the average thief. Nothing can keep up with a mobility specced thief, but few thieves run full mobility.

Tulisin.6945:

Daecollo.9578:

Tulisin.6945:

If you’re mobile than the thief and they stealth, you should be able to kill them anyways. If the thief is more mobile than you are, you aren’t going to be able to catch them regardless of stealth.

So why are you blaming thief stealth for your failure to kill the thief instead of thief mobility?

Thieves have weak mobility compared to Greatsword/Sword Warrior, D/D Elementalist.

The average thief has mobility on par with another profession’s heavy mobility spec. The average Greatsword/Sword warrior or D/D elementalist cannot keep up with the average thief. Nothing can keep up with a mobility specced thief, but few thieves run full mobility.

Full Mobility Thieves have to use Rune of the Centaur/Spec for Healing Signet and give up a lot of other things…

@Tulisin.6945 ( im not blaming thief of my failure ok.,) i say there thief is lethal in 1 vs 1 and i can accept that., but not in 1 vs group., is that clear? For example: u r in the party and thief kill u, i think ur party should have chance to make that thief stop, down or retreat but they can’t do that why? Bcuz of that #5 dagger,skill, thief can hide every 2 – 3 sec.,

jan.9745:

@Tulisin.6945 ( im not blaming thief of my failure ok.,) i say there thief is lethal in 1 vs 1 and i can accept that., but not in 1 vs group., is that clear? For example: u r in the party and thief kill u, i think ur party should have chance to make that thief stop, down or retreat but they can’t do that why? Bcuz of that #5 dagger,skill, thief can hide every 2 – 3 sec.,

You didn’t get the point of my post then. It isn’t #5 dagger skill that is doing it, it is the fact that the thief has better mobility than you. If he was slower than you, but stealthed, you could still kill him. If he didn’t have stealth, you still couldn’t, because you can’t catch him.

jan.9745:

@Tulisin.6945 ( im not blaming thief of my failure ok.,) i say there thief is lethal in 1 vs 1 and i can accept that., but not in 1 vs group., is that clear? For example: u r in the party and thief kill u, i think ur party should have chance to make that thief stop, down or retreat but they can’t do that why? Bcuz of that #5 dagger,skill, thief can hide every 2 – 3 sec.,

Granted, I only watched the first encounter in that pretty long video. I mean, I make bad choices in the heat of WvW too… and often. But I don’t demand that other people be nerfed because I forgot what an AoE was. Or crowd control, honestly… but mostly AoE.

Stealth may be a glorious survivability tool, but it doesn’t negate damage or effects. It can regen and periodically remove conditions, but it doesn’t make the Thief’s opponent suddenly not have skills to use. Pretending otherwise just makes you bad, as does running around not casting anything trying to kite a bleed Thief. That first group deserved everything they got.

I’ve tried to resist saying it… but not this time. L2P.

Every 2 – 3 sec hide do you think its fair?